Wan issue


G

G

We have an 8 node Lan (Linksys router) at work
that uplinks to a Wan Cable router (not a cable modem)
provided by our cable ISP.
We used to have a cable modem for our Wan, of
which then we utilized the wan port on the Linksys
router to jump to the cable modem data port. However
when the ISP upgraded to the cable "router" there is
no data port, just 4 different ports labeled Lan1, Lan2 etc.
So now we jump from the uplink port on the Linksys
router to the 1st port on the cable router. We leave the
port right before the uplink port on the linksys port
empty (common knowledge item).
Ok here is the dilemma. All of the nodes that were on
the old cable modem/Linksys or Wan/Lan now boot
up and work flawlessly on the new topology. I.e. they
can see each other on the Lan "and" they can get out
thru the cable router uplink to the Wan internet. But
we have added two new nodes that were not on the
old system. The configure pretty much as expected in
setting up the network connection. One is a Compaq
the other is an Emachine, both run XPhome. However
the two new machines can see the Lan (and we can see
them) but they cannot see out thru the cable router uplink
to the internet. I've flushed the ipconfig caches, and rebooted
to exhaustion. These two refuse to see out. If I switch
data cables with two other nodes on the lan, then the nothing
changes, the two nodes that did not see Wan "still" do not
see Wan and the two that did see the Wan "still" see the
Wan even though they are in the same Lan hookup scenario
as the two that did not. We are at our wits end with these
two machines. We called a computer shop and they said
we should reload windows to reset everything.
Is there any other solution?
 
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D

David H. Lipman

From: "G" <[email protected]>

| We have an 8 node Lan (Linksys router) at work
| that uplinks to a Wan Cable router (not a cable modem)
| provided by our cable ISP.
| We used to have a cable modem for our Wan, of
| which then we utilized the wan port on the Linksys
| router to jump to the cable modem data port. However
| when the ISP upgraded to the cable "router" there is
| no data port, just 4 different ports labeled Lan1, Lan2 etc.
| So now we jump from the uplink port on the Linksys
| router to the 1st port on the cable router. We leave the
| port right before the uplink port on the linksys port
| empty (common knowledge item).
| Ok here is the dilemma. All of the nodes that were on
| the old cable modem/Linksys or Wan/Lan now boot
| up and work flawlessly on the new topology. I.e. they
| can see each other on the Lan "and" they can get out
| thru the cable router uplink to the Wan internet. But
| we have added two new nodes that were not on the
| old system. The configure pretty much as expected in
| setting up the network connection. One is a Compaq
| the other is an Emachine, both run XPhome. However
| the two new machines can see the Lan (and we can see
| them) but they cannot see out thru the cable router uplink
| to the internet. I've flushed the ipconfig caches, and rebooted
| to exhaustion. These two refuse to see out. If I switch
| data cables with two other nodes on the lan, then the nothing
| changes, the two nodes that did not see Wan "still" do not
| see Wan and the two that did see the Wan "still" see the
| Wan even though they are in the same Lan hookup scenario
| as the two that did not. We are at our wits end with these
| two machines. We called a computer shop and they said
| we should reload windows to reset everything.
| Is there any other solution?
|

To use Cable Internet you *NEED* a modem. Most Cable ISPs are DOCSIS compliant so any
DOCSIS complaint Cable Modem can work with their network.

You would then use a Router. I'm not sure if you are using a Linksys BEFSR81 or what model
because you failed to post this data.
 
G

G

To use Cable Internet you *NEED* a modem.
Most Cable ISPs are DOCSIS compliant so any
DOCSIS complaint Cable Modem can work with
their network.
---------
I say again as previously posted,
We have an 8 node Lan (Linksys router) at work
that uplinks to a Wan Cable router (not a cable modem)
provided by our cable ISP.
There is no Cable Modem. All nodes work except
two.
 
D

David H. Lipman

| ---------
| I say again as previously posted,
| We have an 8 node Lan (Linksys router) at work
| that uplinks to a Wan Cable router (not a cable modem)
| provided by our cable ISP.
| There is no Cable Modem. All nodes work except
| two.
|

Please post the model numbers of both devices.
 
G

G

Please post the model numbers of both devices.
I will fetch that but it will be at least Tuesday night
before I can repost since both are at work across
town and we are off Monday. I do have that info
written down on a sticky note though.
Sincerely confused.
 
Z

Zilbandy

G said:
One is a Compaq
the other is an Emachine, both run XPhome.

I thought that XP Home only supported networks with up to 5 machines.
XP Pro supports up to 10 machines. If you need more than that on your
network, you need the 'Server' software. I'm not typing this based on
my knowledge, only on what I have seen in this newsgroup. I may be
wrong, but if I'm right, you'll need to upgrade to xp pro on those two
machines. Maybe someone else can chime in here and verify my thoughts
on the matter.
 
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D

Dick Cardy

Go to a working computer, open dos command prompt and type ipconfig - note
results

Go to non-working computer and repeat above.

Check that non working is on the same subnet and that the gateway IP address
is the same

Dick
 
G

G

I apologize for my ambiguity. I was specifically
wrong in my description and you were specifically
correct in your statement about the modem.
To correctly start over, it is an ISP provided
cable router/modem. It has a coax out going to
the cable hookup and it has 5 LAN ports and
1 uplink port. We have our nodes into the linksys
and the linksys is uplinked from it's uplink port to
the LAN_1 port on the ISP router/modem
Please post the model numbers of both devices.
Linksys BEFSR81 CABLE/DSL ROUTER
and
Zyxel, Prestige 900 series is our ISP provided cable router/modem
 
D

David H. Lipman

From: "G" <[email protected]>

| I apologize for my ambiguity. I was specifically
| wrong in my description and you were specifically
| correct in your statement about the modem.
| To correctly start over, it is an ISP provided
| cable router/modem. It has a coax out going to
| the cable hookup and it has 5 LAN ports and
| 1 uplink port. We have our nodes into the linksys
| and the linksys is uplinked from it's uplink port to
| the LAN_1 port on the ISP router/modem| Linksys BEFSR81 CABLE/DSL ROUTER
| and
| Zyxel, Prestige 900 series is our ISP provided cable router/modem
|

OK. Then you don't need the BEFSR81 (BTW: That's what I use) what you need is just a 8 or
more port Ethernet switch. The Prestige and teh Linksys Routers will cause configuration
disfficulties because you are essentially using two Routers.

Either you replace the Zyxel, Prestige 900 with a plain DOCSIS cable modem (not suggested
unless you register it with the ISP) or you replace the Linksys BEFRS81 with a 8 or more
port 10/100 Mb/s Ethernet switch (that's my suggestion).
 
G

G

OK. Then you don't need the BEFSR81 (BTW:
That's what I use) what you need is just a 8 or
more port Ethernet switch. The Prestige and the
Linksys Routers will cause configuration difficulties
because you are essentially using two Routers.
Either you replace the Zyxel, Prestige 900 with a
plain DOCSIS cable modem (not suggested unless
you register it with the ISP) or you replace the
Linksys BEFRS81 with a 8 or more port 10/100
Mb/s Ethernet switch (that's my suggestion)
-------------------------------------
I've wondered about that. I do have a extra 5 port
linksys switch (not a router) in the cabinet. That
would give me 4 ports with an uplink to the ISP
router/modem which has 5 more (total) ports.
I will try that first, if that doesn't work I will have
to order a 8 to 10 port switch on the net since I've
never found any here in town with that many ports
at a retail outlet. There are some at specialty computer
stores that are very expensive (having 20 to 50 ports).
While I have your expertise here, can you tell me
what some of the ramifications are when using two
routers in a topo. Obviously this creates a sort of
Wan within the Lan correct. Is there software
(without spending a fortune) one can buy to manage
such setups?
Additionally I'm concerned about the ISP router
working as a normal router since it's ports are
labeled LAN-1, LAN-2 etc. It's almost as if it's
a gateway between different switched hubs. But
then from what I've seen so far that would be
no different than a single node as long as no
router was involved.
Thanks much for your input. I'm a civil engineering
cad draftsman by trade but elected as Net
administrator at work since I know enough to be
a hack of sorts but really I'm an amateur at Networking.
 
D

David H. Lipman

From: "G" <[email protected]>

| I've wondered about that. I do have a extra 5 port
| linksys switch (not a router) in the cabinet. That
| would give me 4 ports with an uplink to the ISP
| router/modem which has 5 more (total) ports.
| I will try that first, if that doesn't work I will have
| to order a 8 to 10 port switch on the net since I've
| never found any here in town with that many ports
| at a retail outlet. There are some at specialty computer
| stores that are very expensive (having 20 to 50 ports).
| While I have your expertise here, can you tell me
| what some of the ramifications are when using two
| routers in a topo. Obviously this creates a sort of
| Wan within the Lan correct. Is there software
| (without spending a fortune) one can buy to manage
| such setups?
| Additionally I'm concerned about the ISP router
| working as a normal router since it's ports are
| labeled LAN-1, LAN-2 etc. It's almost as if it's
| a gateway between different switched hubs. But
| then from what I've seen so far that would be
| no different than a single node as long as no
| router was involved.
| Thanks much for your input. I'm a civil engineering
| cad draftsman by trade but elected as Net
| administrator at work since I know enough to be
| a hack of sorts but really I'm an amateur at Networking.
|

The problem with two Routers is two devices performing Network Address Translation and
TCP/IP Rouiting. One who is experienced amy be able to get two Routers to work
symbiotically but it isn't worth the effort for the layperson. t just easier to use the one
Cable Modem+Router and use an Ethernet switch to expand the number of users.

Don't get confused by the labeling LAN1 just means LAN port 1, LAN port 2, etc. to identify
that it is NOT the WAN port.

D-Link DSS-16+ - 10/100 16-Port Switch
http://www.buy.com/prod/D_Link_DSS_16_10_100_16_Port_Switch/q/loc/101/10156511.html
~$53.00 wity $10.00 rebate

Hawking Tech HFS8T - Ethernet Mini Switch - 8 Port 10/100
http://www.buy.com/prod/Hawking_Tec..._Switch_8_Port_10_100/q/loc/101/10348493.html
~$29.00
 
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G

G

OK. Then you don't need the BEFSR81
(BTW: That's what I use) what you need is
just a 8 or more port Ethernet switch. The
Prestige and the Linksys Routers will cause configuration
difficulties because you are essentially using two Routers.
Either you replace the Zyxel, Prestige 900 with a plain
DOCSIS cable modem (not suggested unless you register 1
it with the ISP) or you replace the Linksys BEFRS81 with
a 8 or more port 10/100 Mb/s Ethernet switch (that's my
suggestion).
-----------------
Ok I took out the BEFRS81 router and went to Staples
and found a Netgear switch model FS116 that has 16 ports.
This gave me plenty of ports since we now have 9 computers
counting our plotter server node. I plugged all of our nodes into
the Netgear switch and then uplinked it with one cable to the
LAN-1 port of the Zyxel, Prestige 900 series ISP provided
cable router/modem. Then things started to get really confusing.
Which blew my mind since the Netgear switch is about as generic
as you can get. There is no CD setup no nothing, just plug and play.
Anyhow I turned everything off. The booted the router and the
switch and then all the nodes. I went to each node and configured
them all the same with DHCP and no firewall enabled. I then got
results I have never seen before. For the past two years we've been
running 5 nodes and plot server with no problem. Now various nodes
can see various other nodes but only 2 other nodes can be seen by
each peer. with the exception of the plotter server it can see 3 other
nodes. We have 3 nodes that can also get out to the internet in addition
to seeing 2 other nodes. The rest of the nodes cannot get email or
get onto the net. I checked everything and rebooted until I was blue
in the face and I could not figure what was wrong. So I called a
professional network diagnostic company. They won't show up
till tomorrow but they told me over the phone that Microsoft has
been including updates that hold WinXP home edition to seeing
only two to 3 nodes. They said for as many nodes as we have we
would have to purchase WinXP pro. and possibly WinServer
running on a dedicated server machine. Is this for real ?
If this is true are there third party network server software any
cheaper?
 
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D

David H. Lipman

From: "G" <[email protected]>


| -----------------
| Ok I took out the BEFRS81 router and went to Staples
| and found a Netgear switch model FS116 that has 16 ports.
| This gave me plenty of ports since we now have 9 computers
| counting our plotter server node. I plugged all of our nodes into
| the Netgear switch and then uplinked it with one cable to the
| LAN-1 port of the Zyxel, Prestige 900 series ISP provided
| cable router/modem. Then things started to get really confusing.
| Which blew my mind since the Netgear switch is about as generic
| as you can get. There is no CD setup no nothing, just plug and play.
| Anyhow I turned everything off. The booted the router and the
| switch and then all the nodes. I went to each node and configured
| them all the same with DHCP and no firewall enabled. I then got
| results I have never seen before. For the past two years we've been
| running 5 nodes and plot server with no problem. Now various nodes
| can see various other nodes but only 2 other nodes can be seen by
| each peer. with the exception of the plotter server it can see 3 other
| nodes. We have 3 nodes that can also get out to the internet in addition
| to seeing 2 other nodes. The rest of the nodes cannot get email or
| get onto the net. I checked everything and rebooted until I was blue
| in the face and I could not figure what was wrong. So I called a
| professional network diagnostic company. They won't show up
| till tomorrow but they told me over the phone that Microsoft has
| been including updates that hold WinXP home edition to seeing
| only two to 3 nodes. They said for as many nodes as we have we
| would have to purchase WinXP pro. and possibly WinServer
| running on a dedicated server machine. Is this for real ?
| If this is true are there third party network server software any
| cheaper?
|

There are limitations to use WinXP HE over Pro.
I don't know all of them and what he is saying could be true.
 

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