Vista & Vienna

  • Thread starter Thread starter D. Spencer Hines
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D. Spencer Hines

How much of a New Paradigm can we expect from Vienna as compared to Vista?

Some REALLY NEW Features?

I may just wait for Vienna.

DSH
 
Now THAT is helpful!

Particularly this part:
-----------------------------------

Windows Vienna - opening a new generation of operating systems

September 7, 2006

In the past 20 years, the Microsoft Windows operating system has accumulated
old code libraries that brought it to the size it has today, 2.5 GB and
about 50 million lines of code (Windows Vista).

These old code libraries consume resources and are often the targets of
security exploits.

The best way to avoid such problems, is to start from scratch, which is
close to what Microsoft plans to do with Windows Vienna.

Windows Vienna will represent the start of a different generation of
operating systems, bringing in new concepts and support for new types of
hardware, along with a better security and a modular approach, which will
allow future versions of Windows to be built more easily on Windows Vienna's
engine.

It is also likely that the future success of Microsoft's products will be
strongly decided by the success of the new generation operating system.

<http://www.windowsvienna.com/>
------------------------------------------------------

Sounds Quite Sensible...

Waiting for Vienna, if one can, sounds increasingly attractive.

Vista may turn out to be as transient and inconsequential as Millennium.

DSH
 
Today, D. Spencer Hines made these interesting comments ...
How much of a New Paradigm can we expect from Vienna as
compared to Vista?

Some REALLY NEW Features?

I may just wait for Vienna.
Click to expand...
Boy this stuff happens fast! Not that long ago, we were debating
Longhorn, then it got renamed by the marketing folk from its
internal name, and eventually released. Now, before Vista even
gets its first SP, there's Vienna? Spence, please tell me you
have another life than investigating the nuances of Redmond!
<grin> Based on our collective cynicism, I think we might expect
even more bloatware and slower speed, requiring some as-yet not
invented new hot PC to even run. 2009? Puleeze!
 
Today, Carey Frisch [MVP] made these interesting comments ...
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2007/feb07/02-13NextVe
rson.mspx
Click to expand...

Carey, the only time ANY company advance announces a product is
when it is in THEIR best interst to do so, ala a big trade show.
So, I would hardly expect MS to say anything substantive now, in
the midst of their biggest Windows rollout ever, and give both the
Mac and Linux people something specific to shoot at.
 
Today, D. Spencer Hines made these interesting comments ...
Now THAT is helpful!

Particularly this part:
-----------------------------------

Windows Vienna - opening a new generation of operating systems

September 7, 2006

In the past 20 years, the Microsoft Windows operating system
has accumulated old code libraries that brought it to the size
it has today, 2.5 GB and about 50 million lines of code
(Windows Vista).
Click to expand...

50,000,000? No wonder it is bloated!
These old code libraries consume resources and are often the
targets of security exploits.
Click to expand...

yep, but then, MS said that XP SP2 was a 99% or something rewrite
to fix this connundrum
The best way to avoid such problems, is to start from scratch,
which is close to what Microsoft plans to do with Windows
Vienna.
Click to expand...

Again, SP2 and again, Vista. How many times can they rewrite 50M
lines of code cost-effectively, much less with quality and
performance?
Windows Vienna will represent the start of a different
generation of operating systems, bringing in new concepts and
support for new types of hardware, along with a better
security and a modular approach, which will allow future
versions of Windows to be built more easily on Windows
Vienna's engine.
Click to expand...

I seem to recall NT, which presumably meant New Technology and
was the equivalent to a car platform for an entire series of new
systems, maybe its time for another one, so by 2009, maybe I'll
get a discount on Vista and let the early Vienna adopters beta
test THAT with their Visa cards!
 
I have hopes that VIENNA, having allegedly been built from scratch, on a New
Paradigm, MAY be a Real Breakthrough -- if that data we posted is on
target -- and bloatware MAY be slimmed down and made much more efficient,
function-rich and faster.

New Subject:

No, I have several lives -- watching Redmond is only a small part of one if
them. <g>

DSH
 
Today, D. Spencer Hines made these interesting comments ...
I have hopes that VIENNA, having allegedly been built from
scratch, on a New Paradigm, MAY be a Real Breakthrough -- if
that data we posted is on target -- and bloatware MAY be
slimmed down and made much more efficient, function-rich and
faster.

New Subject:

No, I have several lives -- watching Redmond is only a small
part of one if them. <g>
Click to expand...
Well, Spence, I like movies prior to about 1980, so TCM is a
biggie to me, as is cable news, cars, and some other stuff. I
think I know where you may be coming from, it is often fun to try
to guesstimate what our fav companies might be up to. I can't
even begin to think about whatever Vienna might become, new
paradigm or not, new code or not.

I've talked about some short discussions with my nephew and PC
builder about a new box, but the bump in CPU performance isn't
worth the premium over my 2.6 gig AMD Athlon, and I'd need not
only Vista but all new apps to take advantage of all that neat
new HW, my current production apps are several versions out-of-
date. So, besides cost, there is my time, which has great value,
and my frustration, for which no value can be placed. <grin>

In short, I've said I waited about 15 months to go to SP2, and
then, only on a new PC, not an upgrade, it was a fresh install.
So, if Vista follows at all that timeline, I MAY be in the market
for a new PC by this time next year, and maybe take advantage of
lower HW prices. For all the reasons you know, I like to stay at
N - 1 from whatever is state-of-the-art because my days of
getting cut by bleeding edge technology are long over.

Have a good one, and enjoy your "research"!
 
D. Spencer Hines said:
I have hopes that VIENNA, having allegedly been built from scratch, on a
New Paradigm, MAY be a Real Breakthrough -- if that data we posted is on
target -- and bloatware MAY be slimmed down and made much more efficient,
function-rich and faster.
Click to expand...

The problem is many of the lrage, high profile companies just keep rolling
out more and more bloated version with each release, and then attempt to
justify that with the few new features that exist. Abobe (Photoshop,
Acrobat, etc), is a great example, among many - new features seem to be
minimal, but size seems to grow exponentially. (The same could arguably be
said about Vista.) It feels as if there is a consiracy to get consumers to
get new hardware, new versions of software they already own, etc.

All these CAN make climmed down and more efficiently coded applications, but
they just plain DON'T. Many of those companies have been around for a long
time. They've had a long time to make less bloated versions, butthey don't.
Now a days you have other third parties, sometimes open source, which often
work just as well, but take a small fraction of the resource foot print. I
wonder why that is.
 
Today, Jerry White made these interesting comments ...
The problem is many of the lrage, high profile companies just
keep rolling out more and more bloated version with each
release, and then attempt to justify that with the few new
features that exist. Abobe (Photoshop, Acrobat, etc), is a
great example, among many - new features seem to be minimal,
but size seems to grow exponentially. (The same could arguably
be said about Vista.) It feels as if there is a consiracy to
get consumers to get new hardware, new versions of software
they already own, etc.
Click to expand...

It is called "marketing", Jerry, and is the gentle art of
implanting in the minds of current and potential customers that
they will die tomorrow of some gruesome disease if they do not
purchase X, Y, or Z today. Now, it has been said that no one can
sell you something you really don't want to buy, and I think that
is true, absent the gullible. But, MS is hardly alone here, ALL
the other major developers are shortening their release cycles at
an ever increasing rate, and many are now under a year, citing
Vista as a "reason" they must create an all-new version.
All these CAN make climmed down and more efficiently coded
applications, but they just plain DON'T. Many of those
companies have been around for a long time. They've had a long
time to make less bloated versions, butthey don't. Now a days
you have other third parties, sometimes open source, which
often work just as well, but take a small fraction of the
resource foot print. I wonder why that is.
Click to expand...

When I began to learn computer programming on mainframes in
college in the late 1960s, then did some professionally in the
1970s, the big cost was the hardware. With the advent of dirt
cheap PCs, low cost huge servers and networks, and computer-
generated everything, the big cost shifted from the HW to the
people on the development team. So, in my view, the focus moved
from small, tight, highly efficient code to run in limited memory
spaces on the very small - by today's standards - spinning disk,
and the wages of the programmers bedamned. Today, HD space is
pennies/gig but good programmers are expensive, as are good
testers, good help file writers, etc. So, Windows itself have
shifted from the old assember and C in the SDK to things like
Visual C++, or so I've been told, with some amount of binary code
inefficiency. Add to that an ever-increasing complexity of the
GUI with more and more graphics, desired support for legacy HW
and SW, and security, and it isn't hard to imagine a 50,000,000
code base that is both buggy and bloated.

Absent Linux of a Mac, what do you believe the solution to be?
[snip the old stuff]
 
D. Spencer Hines said:
Now THAT is helpful!

Particularly this part:
-----------------------------------

Windows Vienna - opening a new generation of operating systems

September 7, 2006

In the past 20 years, the Microsoft Windows operating system has accumulated
old code libraries that brought it to the size it has today, 2.5 GB and
about 50 million lines of code (Windows Vista).

These old code libraries consume resources and are often the targets of
security exploits.

The best way to avoid such problems, is to start from scratch, which is
close to what Microsoft plans to do with Windows Vienna.

Windows Vienna will represent the start of a different generation of
operating systems, bringing in new concepts and support for new types of
hardware, along with a better security and a modular approach, which will
allow future versions of Windows to be built more easily on Windows Vienna's
engine.

It is also likely that the future success of Microsoft's products will be
strongly decided by the success of the new generation operating system.

<http://www.windowsvienna.com/>
------------------------------------------------------

Sounds Quite Sensible...

Waiting for Vienna, if one can, sounds increasingly attractive.

Vista may turn out to be as transient and inconsequential as Millennium.

DSH
Click to expand...

This is completely hypothetical, but I think Vienna will be more of an
internet based OS.

--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

Most recent idiotic quote added to KICK (Klassic Idiotic Caption Kooks):
"DRM is not added to anything in Vista."

"Good poets borrow; great poets steal."
- T. S. Eliot
 
Today, Nina DiBoy made these interesting comments ...

[snip the previous babble]
This is completely hypothetical, but I think Vienna will be
more of an internet based OS.
Click to expand...

I've been hearing this for awhile and tend to agree with you,
albeit I obviously have no proof. Personally, I think this is just
as dangerous as tying my phone line to the Internet, as with Vonage
or something. If Comcast takes a powder on me, I not only couldn't
surf, I couldn't phone them, and likely couldn't even compute on my
PC off-line, if the O/S wanted to page code modules or graphics
to/from the web and not native to my HD. But, it is far too early
to speculate on this, much less lose sleep.
 
Who really cares about Vista and it's new features when the current
Microsoft disaster has given so many people headaches and quite a few want
to return to XP? Now we are speculating on Vienna? The body isn't even
cold yet!!!
 
Lots of people. Don't forget, all you'll see here are people wiht problems,
not those for whom it's working properly and as expected. You get the "bell
curve" lower end of things here.

Pop`
 
This is completely hypothetical, but I think Vienna will be more of an
internet based OS.
Click to expand...
-------------------------------------------------------

Well, that certainly makes Good Sense.

Internet Usage SHOULD be a Major Consideration in Vienna, but not a
crippling one.

DSH
 
Microsoft was talking about Vienna, before Vista was even out the door.
It sounds like FUD to me. They realized how crappy Vista was, so they
wanted us to focus on the vaporware of the future.
 
"Zim Babwe"
Who really cares about Vista and it's new features when the current
Microsoft disaster has given so many people headaches and quite a few want
to return to XP? Now we are speculating on Vienna? The body isn't even
cold yet!!!
Click to expand...

To Hell with Vienna. Now it's perfect time for Microsoft to stop screwing
around inventing new useless features and graphic interfaces (Aero is
absolutely worthless) and look back a little and invest some time to
backward compatibility. It's absolutely hideous to abuse its almost monopoly
power and create an operating system that is incompatible with most of
current popular programs and almost all dating a few years back. Vista's
compatibility feature is a bad joke.
 
To Hell with Vienna. Now it's perfect time for Microsoft to stop screwing
around inventing new useless features and graphic interfaces (Aero is
absolutely worthless) and look back a little and invest some time to
backward compatibility. It's absolutely hideous to abuse its almost
monopoly power and create an operating system that is incompatible with
most of current popular programs and almost all dating a few years back.
Vista's compatibility feature is a bad joke.
Click to expand...

Why would I want a new OS to run OLDER programs? I already have that... I
want an OS that is going to run tomorrows software with tomorrows
technologies.

Besides Vista will run the majority of XP programs out there and if you are
still running dos, win95-98 programs what are you even looking at vista for?

Jeff
 
Today, Poprivet made these interesting comments ...
Lots of people. Don't forget, all you'll see here are people
wiht problems, not those for whom it's working properly and as
expected. You get the "bell curve" lower end of things here.
Click to expand...
[snip]

I agree. Newspapers and talk shows regularly have "call in"
questions about problems or controversial issues. Basically, the
only people who call in are those with problems, or those violently
in favor of or violently opposed to the controversial question.
Statistically, the sample of the total population of possible
responders is so skewed as to be absurdly invalid. So, just looking
at these MS NGs as a sample, it is but a small microcism of the
total installed base of Windows, and besides newbies or folks
coming in with their very first problem, many of the OPs and
repliers are "regulars". That doesn't make anyone necessarily good
or bad, I'm simply agreeing with you.

If anyone had any real numbers, we could discuss the median and
mean of people's experience on anything we like, but to really say
anything, like "this is great" or "this really sucks", we would
have to be able to calculate the standard deviation, sigma, and
look to the two tails as you say. Plus, we would need to determine
if the distribution curve is Normal or Gaussian, or skewed in some
way to one or the other end. My belief is that Windows is skewed
and whether the preponderance is that it is a very good or a very
bad O/S depends on where in the release cycle it is as well as
people's definition of "good" and "bad."
 
... I want an OS that is going to run tomorrows software with tomorrows
technologies.
Click to expand...

That could have been accomplished by upgrading and reintroducing XP.
There's a lot of garbage in Vista that doesn't have ANYTHING to do
with running software applications.
 
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