Vista Upgrade from XP-pro

[Guest]

I bought the Home Premium edition of Vista to upgrade my XP pro. This is not
a good upgrade as you have to destroy your disk and reinstall all your
programs. What a stupid thing to do this day and age. I am a Microsoft
shareholder and am ashamed that this is the junk they are selling. Sure you
can pay a lot more and get business Vista but you don't get the features in
the Home Premium so then you have to spend a lot more to get the Ultra
edition. Furthermore, if you open the package (in Canada anyway) you can't
return this useless beast due to copyright laws. I wish that idiotic Vista
checker on my machine warned me more adequately. So here is what you need to
do - READ THE FINE PRINT. Shame!

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

I bought the Home Premium edition of Vista to upgrade my XP pro. This
is not a good upgrade as you have to destroy your disk and reinstall
all your programs.

XP Home to any version of Vista is considered an upgrade. But Microsoft has
always considered that going from an operating system version called
Professional to one called Home is a downgrade, not an upgrade--even if the
Home version is a newer one.

This isn't really new at all. The same was true of upgrading Windows 2000
Professional to Windows XP--you could upgrade to XP Professional, but not to
XP Home, which was considered a downgrade.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for your input.

There is no "professional" version of Vista - there is the "business" one.
Maybe one would think that the Vista "premium" version might have a decent
upgrade but I was wrong. The only thing XP-pro seemed to give me was a backup
capability which should be standard stuff these days.

The upgrade costs are high enough that you'd think you'd get something of
value.

I think Microsoft will take a lot of heat on this one.

I am an experienced computer user and I got taken in. But I should have
looked closer to the exact meaning of a "premium" product.

 

[Gerry Cornell]

Tim

Did you buy Vista in the US or Canada? I presume you live in Canada.

I doubt your problem arises out of Copyright laws. It will arise for
other reasons.
http://www.microsift.com/info/nareturns.htm

You may have other consumer rights with regard to the party who sold
you the upgrade.

--

Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Thanks for your input.

There is no "professional" version of Vista -

I didn't say there was. You're going from a Professional version of XP to a
Home version of Vista, and that sort of a change has always been considered
a *downgrade*.

there is the "business"
one. Maybe one would think that the Vista "premium" version might
have a decent upgrade but I was wrong. The only thing XP-pro seemed
to give me was a backup capability which should be standard stuff
these days.

The upgrade costs are high enough that you'd think you'd get
something of value.

I think Microsoft will take a lot of heat on this one.

I am an experienced computer user and I got taken in. But I should
have looked closer to the exact meaning of a "premium" product.

Well, *I* think that what you should have done was look closer at the rules
for what upgrade paths are supported. They are *very* easy to find. Do a
Google search on Vista, click on the first hit, and click on "Upgrade from a
previous edition" on the right. That takes you to
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/upgradepaths.mspx
or http://tinyurl.com/2le7bp which contains a chart showing all the
supported upgrade paths.

Let me make it clear, by the way, that I don't like the restrictions any
more than you do, and also wish that any upgrade from XP to Vista were
supported. But the information on the upgrade rules was readily available.
You simply made an erroneous assumption rather than doing your homework. I'm
sorry that happened, but it's not Microsoft's fault; they certainly didn't
hide the information from you, and your comment in your original message "So
here is what you need to do - READ THE FINE PRINT" isn't at all applicable,

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup

 

[Guest]

Gerry:

I bought the "Upgrade" in Canada from www.futureshop.ca (which is owned by
the US parent company, Best Buy). Their policy on software etc. is: "Due to
copyright laws, computer and game console software, music CDs, DVDs and
videos in opened packages may only be exchanged for the same item." This may
be a Canadian law and not applicable elsewhere but the fellow at the
non-virtual store said the same thing. So I am stuck.

Your link should probably be:

http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/productrefund/refund.asp

and not the weird one you provided. Microsoft says:

"You can easily return any Microsoft retail product* to the retailer from
which you purchased it, subject to that retailer's return policy."

The trouble is that my product is opened and FutureShop's return policy
means they will not take it back. I will contact Microsoft returns at
1-888-673-8624 but they are not taking calls right now and don't even say
anything in their recording about being Microsoft. Just "try again later".

I do have a laptop with Home XP so I could upgrade that machine but my
desire was to upgrade my desktop machine and leave the smaller one alone.
Maybe I'll start looking more closely at my Linux machine .

If I get anywhere with this, I'll post.

Happy computing.

Tim, Ph.D.

 

[Xenomorph]

there are NO versions of Vista that require you to "destroy" your disk.

the Home version of Vista can not be used to upgrade the Pro version of XP.
you just have to install a clean copy of Windows.

even if it could be used to upgrade, i would still recommend a clean
install.

its funny that you would get so upset over the preferred method of
installation.

 

[Xenomorph]

Windows XP Home can be upgraded to Windows Vista Home

Windows XP Professional can be upgraded to Windows Vista Business

While XP Home and XP Pro can be "upgraded" to Vista Business(Pro), it is not
considered an upgrade to go from XP Pro (the Business version) to Vista
HOME.

like others have pointed out, this has been the SAME upgrade path for HALF A
DECADE with XP.

Windows 2000 Pro could not be upgraded to XP Home.

 

[Nepatsfan]

In

I bought the Home Premium edition of Vista to upgrade my XP
pro. This
is not a good upgrade as you have to destroy your disk and
reinstall
all your programs. What a stupid thing to do this day and
age. I am a
Microsoft shareholder and am ashamed that this is the junk
they are
selling. Sure you can pay a lot more and get business Vista
but you
don't get the features in the Home Premium so then you have
to spend
a lot more to get the Ultra edition. Furthermore, if you open
the
package (in Canada anyway) you can't return this useless
beast due to
copyright laws. I wish that idiotic Vista checker on my
machine
warned me more adequately. So here is what you need to do -
READ THE
FINE PRINT. Shame!

Just out of curiosity, I ran the Vista Upgrade advisor on my XP
Pro system. Under "Your computer can run Windows Vista" it says
the following.

"Based on our scan of your system, Windows Vista Business
appears to be the best edition for you. For information about
other editions, click the edition names in the left pane."

I clicked on the Home Premium button. There's a paragraph right
next to the button which contains the following advice.

"choosing this edition requires you to transfer your files and
settings, run a clean installation of Windows Vista Home
Premium and re-install your programs"

None of this is in fine print. Sure sounds like an adequate
warning to me.

I don't know which upgrade advisor you were using but the one
available from Microsoft seems to do exactly what it's supposed
to do. Maybe you were expecting it to come equipped with a
"Protect me from myself" button.

Nepatsfan

 

[Rock]

I bought the Home Premium edition of Vista to upgrade my XP pro. This is
not
a good upgrade as you have to destroy your disk and reinstall all your
programs. What a stupid thing to do this day and age. I am a Microsoft
shareholder and am ashamed that this is the junk they are selling. Sure
you
can pay a lot more and get business Vista but you don't get the features
in
the Home Premium so then you have to spend a lot more to get the Ultra
edition. Furthermore, if you open the package (in Canada anyway) you can't
return this useless beast due to copyright laws. I wish that idiotic Vista
checker on my machine warned me more adequately. So here is what you need
to
do - READ THE FINE PRINT. Shame!

The problem is you didn't read what the Upgrade Advisor told you. It
clearly spells out what going to VHP from XP Pro would entail. There are
other resources available as well, besides the Upgrade Advisor, such as the
Microsoft Vista Home page which has a link to this page about upgrade paths:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/upgradepaths.mspx

You can use an upgrade version of Vista Home Premium to go from XP Pro to
Vista, it just can't do an in place upgrade. One must do a custom install
(which does not entail destroying the drive). Use the Windows Easy Transfer
(WET) utility on the Vista DVD to copy the data and settings from XP Pro to
CD/DVD or an external USB drive, do the custom installation of VHP,
reinstall applications from their original media, and then use WET to bring
in the data and settings.

If the media center features are wanted along with the ability to do an in
place upgrade, then you'll need the Ultimate upgrade version.

There are Vista newsgroups for Vista questions, the counterpart to this one
is microsoft.public.windows.vista.general.

Lastly, even though the retailer won't take back the software, MS does have
a software return policy for North America.
http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/productrefund/refund.asp

Hasn't MS stock gone up recently?

 

[Guest]

Hi:

The original one I used a few days ago was replaced by a new one but
probably you are right. My scan also recommended the "business" edition but I
am one person and not the small to medium business they target. My assumption
was that the "premium" Home edition was a replacement for the XP-Pro. I was
wrong and was probably swayed by a promotion where I bought it.

Live and learn I guess.

Thanks,
Tim

 

[Guest]

Rock:

Well said. Mea culpa.

It appears that MS will take back software licences anyway so I may do that.
The upgrade price is pretty high for Business and Ultra I think.

I am SO happy that MS has risen lately. Too bad it tanked a few years ago
and the value went down over 50% and, as it was a core holding of many
accounts and mutual funds, a lot of people got hurt. Hmm, including myself.
At least it makes for a good capital loss.

I imagine that some others will get confused like I did, although you are
right that I shouldn't have. However, posting here may help some dolt like
myself.

The old idea was that NT and all the variants were going to merge into one
product. Now we have four at least. For the price it better be pretty good; I
was getting tired of downloading fixes and security hole plugs for XP.

TTFN.

 

[Gerry Cornell]

Tim

It does use the phraseology which is strange.

The 45 day Money Back Guarantee offered by Microsoft looks promising.
It looks similar to one I describe below.so you may be able to get
your money back after all.

In the UK nothwithstanding what conditions the seller seeks to apply
to sales the purchaser has statutory rights as a consumer, which a
seller cannot deny. I would expect similar rights to exist in Canadian
law. Thus if a purchaser is mislead as to fitness for purpose then the
state of the packaging i.e. if seals are broken it would not prevent a
claim being established. However, you would need to prove you that you
were mislead as to fitness for purpose and you most likely are not
going to be able to demonstrate this is so. If you fail to ask the
right questions before purchase you are unlikely to be successful and
even if you do, unless assurances are in writing, it can be very
difficult to exstablish what assurances if any were given and relied
upon.

I recently purchased Norton Partition Magic with a view to
partitioning one of my drives to install Vista to dual boot. To my
dismay I found after creating the partitions that Partition Magic is
not compatible with Vista. In effect I would no longer be able to use
Partition Magic on the drive once Vista was installed. Fortunately on
the Box which I had opened was a 60 day Money Back Guarantee. All I
had to do was to say I was not completely satisfied to obtain a full
refund. The retailer denied my claim saying it had to be defective. I
think they are wrong but it does not matter as Symantec are processing
my claim. Without the Money Back Guarantee I might still have been
able to establish a not fit for purpose claim but there could have
been some argumentative issues.

I hope Microsoft look on your claim sympathetically.


--

Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[...winston]

Symantec has had a pretty decent return policy(and in some cases a free 60 day automatic upgrade guarantee if a newer version is released within that timeframe).

Similar to the op's issue, information on PM and Vista compatibility is available on the Symantec site(s) dedicated to Vista compatible programs
http://www.symantec.com/vista/index.jsp
http://www.symantec.com/home_homeoffice/themes/vista/compatibility.jsp
http://www.symantec.com/home_homeoffice/themes/vista/faq.jsp

Though in your case your objective to partition prior to a dual boot install of Vista was achievable barring its inability to be installed later. If it was compatible it would still require a removal from the XP machine prior to use on Vista. It should also be noted, that if sufficient free unused space was available on a drive, then even the Windows XP disk management tool or a variety of 3rd party free or shareware partitioning applications could have achieved the same task.

As with any new o/s..3rd party disk utility type software traditionally has lagged in release.

: Tim
:
: It does use the phraseology which is strange.
:
: The 45 day Money Back Guarantee offered by Microsoft looks promising.
: It looks similar to one I describe below.so you may be able to get
: your money back after all.
:
: In the UK nothwithstanding what conditions the seller seeks to apply
: to sales the purchaser has statutory rights as a consumer, which a
: seller cannot deny. I would expect similar rights to exist in Canadian
: law. Thus if a purchaser is mislead as to fitness for purpose then the
: state of the packaging i.e. if seals are broken it would not prevent a
: claim being established. However, you would need to prove you that you
: were mislead as to fitness for purpose and you most likely are not
: going to be able to demonstrate this is so. If you fail to ask the
: right questions before purchase you are unlikely to be successful and
: even if you do, unless assurances are in writing, it can be very
: difficult to exstablish what assurances if any were given and relied
: upon.
:
: I recently purchased Norton Partition Magic with a view to
: partitioning one of my drives to install Vista to dual boot. To my
: dismay I found after creating the partitions that Partition Magic is
: not compatible with Vista. In effect I would no longer be able to use
: Partition Magic on the drive once Vista was installed. Fortunately on
: the Box which I had opened was a 60 day Money Back Guarantee. All I
: had to do was to say I was not completely satisfied to obtain a full
: refund. The retailer denied my claim saying it had to be defective. I
: think they are wrong but it does not matter as Symantec are processing
: my claim. Without the Money Back Guarantee I might still have been
: able to establish a not fit for purpose claim but there could have
: been some argumentative issues.
:
: I hope Microsoft look on your claim sympathetically.
:
:
: --
:
: Hope this helps.
:
: Gerry
: ~~~~
: FCA
: Stourport, England
: Enquire, plan and execute
: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
:
:
: timc101 wrote:
: > Gerry:
: >
: > I bought the "Upgrade" in Canada from www.futureshop.ca (which is
: > owned by the US parent company, Best Buy). Their policy on
: > software etc. is: "Due to copyright laws, computer and game
: > console software, music CDs, DVDs and videos in opened packages
: > may only be exchanged for the same item." This may be a Canadian
: > law and not applicable elsewhere but the fellow at the
: > non-virtual store said the same thing. So I am stuck.
: >
: > Your link should probably be:
: >
: > http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/productrefund/refund.asp
: >
: > and not the weird one you provided. Microsoft says:
: >
: > "You can easily return any Microsoft retail product* to the
: > retailer from which you purchased it, subject to that retailer's
: > return policy."
: >
: > The trouble is that my product is opened and FutureShop's return
: > policy means they will not take it back. I will contact Microsoft
: > returns at 1-888-673-8624 but they are not taking calls right now
: > and don't even say anything in their recording about being
: > Microsoft. Just "try again later".
: >
: > I do have a laptop with Home XP so I could upgrade that machine
: > but my desire was to upgrade my desktop machine and leave the
: > smaller one alone. Maybe I'll start looking more closely at my
: > Linux machine .
: >
: > If I get anywhere with this, I'll post.
: >
: > Happy computing.
: >
: > Tim, Ph.D.
: >
: >
: > "Gerry Cornell" wrote:
: >
: >> Tim
: >>
: >> Did you buy Vista in the US or Canada? I presume you live in
: >> Canada.
: >>
: >> I doubt your problem arises out of Copyright laws. It will arise
: >> for other reasons.
: >> http://www.microsift.com/info/nareturns.htm
: >>
: >> You may have other consumer rights with regard to the party who
: >> sold you the upgrade.
: >>
: >> --
: >>
: >> Hope this helps.
: >>
: >> Gerry
: >> ~~~~
: >> FCA
: >> Stourport, England
: >> Enquire, plan and execute
: >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
:

 

[Gerry Cornell]

Winston

The Cash Back guarantee is merely a marketting ploy to generate a sale
where otherwise a potential buyer might have chosen not to buy. It
clearly has advantages for the seller over a trial period where if you
do not pay at the expiry of the trial the product just stops working.
Given that figuring out how to claim a refund is an involved process I
suspect that many entitled to a refund fail to get it.

When I originally looked the Symantec sites they had nothing to say
about Partition Magic or Winfax Pro with regard to Vista. I emailed
Symantec and established that Winfax Pro is no longer being sold but
they failed to give an answer regarding Partition Magic. Perhaps they
are undecided about the future for Partition Magic? Buyers beware!

The Disk Management Tool in XP cannot be used to non-destructively
adjust existing partitions. I am informed that the comparable Vista
tool is similarly primitive. I have been advised to buy BootIt Next
Generation, which is already compatible with Vista and coincidentally
cheaper than Partition Magic.

I am not sure I understand you when you say "If it was compatible it
would still require a removal from the XP machine prior to use on
Vista." I have been told that Vista will not install if Boot Magic ( a
Partition Magic Add on ) is being used but I am not clear that that is
what you meant? The problem is as I understand that if the user has
two drives with Vista on one the partitions on the drive not
containing Vista can be adjusted but the other drive with Vista will
be problematic. Many resizing operations involve moving or shuffling
partitions and it seems the presence of the Vista partition will in
some way prevent this process. This seemingly applies notwithstanding
that Partition Magic is being run from Windows XP.


--

Regards.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Symantec has had a pretty decent return policy(and in some cases a
free 60 day automatic upgrade guarantee if a newer version is released
within that timeframe).

Similar to the op's issue, information on PM and Vista compatibility
is available on the Symantec site(s) dedicated to Vista compatible
programs
http://www.symantec.com/vista/index.jsp
http://www.symantec.com/home_homeoffice/themes/vista/compatibility.jsp
http://www.symantec.com/home_homeoffice/themes/vista/faq.jsp

Though in your case your objective to partition prior to a dual boot
install of Vista was achievable barring its inability to be installed
later. If it was compatible it would still require a removal from the
XP machine prior to use on Vista. It should also be noted, that if
sufficient free unused space was available on a drive, then even the
Windows XP disk management tool or a variety of 3rd party free or
shareware partitioning applications could have achieved the same task.

As with any new o/s..3rd party disk utility type software
traditionally has lagged in release.

 

[Bruce Chambers]

I bought the Home Premium edition of Vista to upgrade my XP pro. This is not
a good upgrade as you have to destroy your disk and reinstall all your
programs. What a stupid thing to do this day and age.

Stupid? Whatever made you think you could upgrade from a "Pro" to a
"Home" version? Didn't you even take 30 seconds to read the box? Who's
"stupid?"

I am a Microsoft
shareholder ....

How could you possibly be a share holder when you can't even safely go
to the local shop without adult supervision?


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell

 

[Guest]

Bruce:

You are too kind. But it starts with a and ends with e.

Tim

 

[...winston]

While it may retain customers, it can still be used to obtain the next version if one purchases the older version within that 60 day time frame(the price for s/h is much less than waiting more than 60days and later purchasing and rebating).

The only available Vista compatible Symantec products are shown on that site. For those buying retail..only packages with Vista labeling should be purchased.

The Windows Disk Management comment clearly stated available free space(no implication was intended or given for resizing).

I wish I could provide more info on Symantec, Vista resizing etc.., just can't at this time...I prefer swappable drives vs dual boot(though I may try it to see what trouble I can create for myself).

...winston


:
: Winston
:
: The Cash Back guarantee is merely a marketting ploy to generate a sale
: where otherwise a potential buyer might have chosen not to buy.: When I originally looked the Symantec sites they had nothing to say
: about Partition Magic or Winfax Pro with regard to Vista. I emailed
: Symantec and established that Winfax Pro is no longer being sold but
: they failed to give an answer regarding Partition Magic. Perhaps they
: are undecided about the future for Partition Magic? Buyers beware!
:
: The Disk Management Tool in XP cannot be used to non-destructively
: adjust existing partitions. I am informed that the comparable Vista
: tool is similarly primitive. I have been advised to buy BootIt Next
: Generation, which is already compatible with Vista and coincidentally
: cheaper than Partition Magic.

The removal if compatible statement(rereading it wasn't exactly clear..sorry) was included to ensure that single license for single pc etc was being followed. The gray area is always on dual boot pc since some folks who've activated Symantec on dual boots lost ability on the first activation for a variety of reasons..

:
: I am not sure I understand you when you say "If it was compatible it
: would still require a removal from the XP machine prior to use on
: Vista." I have been told that Vista will not install if Boot Magic ( a
: Partition Magic Add on ) is being used but I am not clear that that is
: what you meant? The problem is as I understand that if the user has
: two drives with Vista on one the partitions on the drive not
: containing Vista can be adjusted but the other drive with Vista will
: be problematic. Many resizing operations involve moving or shuffling
: partitions and it seems the presence of the Vista partition will in
: some way prevent this process. This seemingly applies notwithstanding
: that Partition Magic is being run from Windows XP.
:
:
: --
:
: Regards.
:
: Gerry
: ~~~~
: FCA
: Stourport, England
: Enquire, plan and execute
: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
:
: : Symantec has had a pretty decent return policy(and in some cases a
: free 60 day automatic upgrade guarantee if a newer version is released
: within that timeframe).
:
: Similar to the op's issue, information on PM and Vista compatibility
: is available on the Symantec site(s) dedicated to Vista compatible
: programs
: http://www.symantec.com/vista/index.jsp
: http://www.symantec.com/home_homeoffice/themes/vista/compatibility.jsp
: http://www.symantec.com/home_homeoffice/themes/vista/faq.jsp
:
: Though in your case your objective to partition prior to a dual boot
: install of Vista was achievable barring its inability to be installed
: later. If it was compatible it would still require a removal from the
: XP machine prior to use on Vista. It should also be noted, that if
: sufficient free unused space was available on a drive, then even the
: Windows XP disk management tool or a variety of 3rd party free or
: shareware partitioning applications could have achieved the same task.
:
: As with any new o/s..3rd party disk utility type software
: traditionally has lagged in release.
:
:

 

[Guest]

Ken, you are not listening to the timc101. You are just spouting the MS
party line.

3 things to get clear
- there is NO clear warning that Premium is downgrade (and hence not
supported "upgrade"). As Timc101 said, you have to dig around for some
really fine print. MSFT is touting the Vista as the best thing ever - how
can that possibly be considered a downgrade?
- the functionality in Premium is in all cases greater than or equal to Pro
except in very few areas that many home users do not use - like domains.
- all we want is our files and programs to work without having to spend 20+
hours reinstalling everything again. I don't think anyone is expecting some
free "pro" functionality to leak into Home Premium. Please do not treat us
like idiots in this respect.
This is totally stupid product decision. It is a "decision" because they
enabled it in Ultimate.

Thanks, Mark.

 

[Guest]

I don't agree. Rock wrote "do the custom installation of VHP,"

Yeah, right. I have office suite, video editing software, publishing
software, home accounting software, kids games, and a 100 other applications.
Why should I spend 20+ hours reinstalling software when the capability to
upgrade is there? - just disabled by some stupid policy decision(yes - the
basic install without the WET restore takes 20+ hours).