Vista Problem with 8GB

[Guest]

Hi

I have the following setup:
MSI P6N Diamond motherboard
Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6700 Quad core CPU
8GB RAM: 4 x 2GB Mushkin 800 mHz DDR2
MSI NX8800 Ultra OC video card
PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750W PSU
WD Raptor 74GB 10K SATA HD (used as boot drive)
Hitachi Deskstar 1TB
Lite-On Blu-Ray burner
3 x Seagate Barracuda 750GB SATA HDs
Silverstone TJ07-S full tower case
Dell 3007 30" monitor with USB hub

I am having trouble getting Vista to run on my system with a full memory
configuration, despite the fact that XP32 installs just fine. Having done
research I knew that it can help to have <3gb installed, so I started with
that. Here is the story so far:

-I only have 1 x 2GB stick in the machine and unplug all drives except for
boot and BD drive. (I do this so I don't get bizarre drive letters where the
BD ends up being the last letter and the CompactFlash drives are in front my
my data drives).
-Install XP32 on the first partition of my 74gb boot, no problems
-Install Vista Ultimate 64 on the second partition, also no problems
-Install all drivers in XP32 and Vista. So far so good.
-Download the plethora of updates for Vista. KB929777 is not one of them.
I download it anyway and install it, it says that this update is not
compatible with my system.
-Install 8gb and test each install. XP32 only sees 3, but that's fine.
Vista sees 8GB - yes!!!
-Connect 1 additional HD and try both systems again. XP32 boots fine.
Vista BSODs with the standard error, 0x00007 etc etc.
-I remove the 6GB from my moboard, and retry. Vista runs fine. XP32 of
course does as well. I connect the other drives in a piecemeal fashion,
booting each OS individually after each connection and checking that I can
see each drive.
-After all drives are connected and I've tested them, I put the 6GB back and
cross my fingers. I boot Vista and success!! I see the drives, I see my
memory, life is good.
-My intuition at this point is that if Vista with full memory sees a new
storage device upon boot before it's had a chance to fully load itself it
immediately vomits, while if it only has 2gb it's fine. If it has already
built a picture of its devices from before that it doesn't do this, hence
it's ok to run 8GB.
-I close the case, shove it under my desk, and connect everything, including
the USB hub in my monitor. I boot into Vista and sure enough it has the same
BSOD!
-(I start to get a bit annoyed at this point...) I remove the machine from
under the desk, open it up, yank the 6GB out, reboot. Vista works fine. I
reinstall the 6GB, figuring it was going to be as before as per my intuition,
but it still BSODs. I disconnect the hub but it continues to fail. I remove
the 6gb again and it's fine. I connect the hub and it's fine. I satisfy
myself that the hub and 8gb don't like each other, and now 8gb without the
hub doesn't work either.
-I decide to try something different. I have all of my drives connected
(including the hub) and reinstall Vista (with only 2GB). Of course now with
the new drive letters this install of Vista destroys the dual boot function,
so I lose my XP32... After Vista installs I slap in the 6GB, and it works!
-I now have to reinstall XP32 fully with all drives connected and then I
will (yet again!) reinstall Vista in order to get my dual boot back. That
means I will have installed Vista at least 5 times during this process.

So this is where I currently stand. I have ascertained that Vista with more
than 2GB just can't handle a new storage device being added. Adding a
storage device and then booting Vista somehow updates the table of storage
devices, which means you can then add more memory. Adding a storage device
with 8GB definitely blows up the system, from which you may recover by
removing the memory and maybe you won't, as with the hub.

The 929777 hotfix does not seem to do anything. I have not overclocked my
machine in any way, and I've run Prime95 on it while in XP32 and have had no
problems.

Has anyone else been able to get Vista64 running stably on a machine with
8GB? I bought Vista in order to run more memory and it's deeply frustrating
that I can only get it to run reliably with 2GB - it kills much of the reason
to have Vista.

thx
dl

 

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

Windows Vista design parameters can accommodate up to 4GB RAM.

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows - Shell/User

---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-----

:

Hi

I have the following setup:
MSI P6N Diamond motherboard
Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6700 Quad core CPU
8GB RAM: 4 x 2GB Mushkin 800 mHz DDR2
MSI NX8800 Ultra OC video card
PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750W PSU
WD Raptor 74GB 10K SATA HD (used as boot drive)
Hitachi Deskstar 1TB
Lite-On Blu-Ray burner
3 x Seagate Barracuda 750GB SATA HDs
Silverstone TJ07-S full tower case
Dell 3007 30" monitor with USB hub

I am having trouble getting Vista to run on my system with a full memory
configuration, despite the fact that XP32 installs just fine. Having done
research I knew that it can help to have <3gb installed, so I started with
that. Here is the story so far:

-I only have 1 x 2GB stick in the machine and unplug all drives except for
boot and BD drive. (I do this so I don't get bizarre drive letters where the
BD ends up being the last letter and the CompactFlash drives are in front my
my data drives).
-Install XP32 on the first partition of my 74gb boot, no problems
-Install Vista Ultimate 64 on the second partition, also no problems
-Install all drivers in XP32 and Vista. So far so good.
-Download the plethora of updates for Vista. KB929777 is not one of them.
I download it anyway and install it, it says that this update is not
compatible with my system.
-Install 8gb and test each install. XP32 only sees 3, but that's fine.
Vista sees 8GB - yes!!!
-Connect 1 additional HD and try both systems again. XP32 boots fine.
Vista BSODs with the standard error, 0x00007 etc etc.
-I remove the 6GB from my moboard, and retry. Vista runs fine. XP32 of
course does as well. I connect the other drives in a piecemeal fashion,
booting each OS individually after each connection and checking that I can
see each drive.
-After all drives are connected and I've tested them, I put the 6GB back and
cross my fingers. I boot Vista and success!! I see the drives, I see my
memory, life is good.
-My intuition at this point is that if Vista with full memory sees a new
storage device upon boot before it's had a chance to fully load itself it
immediately vomits, while if it only has 2gb it's fine. If it has already
built a picture of its devices from before that it doesn't do this, hence
it's ok to run 8GB.
-I close the case, shove it under my desk, and connect everything, including
the USB hub in my monitor. I boot into Vista and sure enough it has the same
BSOD!
-(I start to get a bit annoyed at this point...) I remove the machine from
under the desk, open it up, yank the 6GB out, reboot. Vista works fine. I
reinstall the 6GB, figuring it was going to be as before as per my intuition,
but it still BSODs. I disconnect the hub but it continues to fail. I remove
the 6gb again and it's fine. I connect the hub and it's fine. I satisfy
myself that the hub and 8gb don't like each other, and now 8gb without the
hub doesn't work either.
-I decide to try something different. I have all of my drives connected
(including the hub) and reinstall Vista (with only 2GB). Of course now with
the new drive letters this install of Vista destroys the dual boot function,
so I lose my XP32... After Vista installs I slap in the 6GB, and it works!
-I now have to reinstall XP32 fully with all drives connected and then I
will (yet again!) reinstall Vista in order to get my dual boot back. That
means I will have installed Vista at least 5 times during this process.

So this is where I currently stand. I have ascertained that Vista with more
than 2GB just can't handle a new storage device being added. Adding a
storage device and then booting Vista somehow updates the table of storage
devices, which means you can then add more memory. Adding a storage device
with 8GB definitely blows up the system, from which you may recover by
removing the memory and maybe you won't, as with the hub.

The 929777 hotfix does not seem to do anything. I have not overclocked my
machine in any way, and I've run Prime95 on it while in XP32 and have had no
problems.

Has anyone else been able to get Vista64 running stably on a machine with
8GB? I bought Vista in order to run more memory and it's deeply frustrating
that I can only get it to run reliably with 2GB - it kills much of the reason
to have Vista.

thx
dl

 

[Greg]

admit is. you really just wanted to boast about your computer? you don't
have any problems with vista and your system ram.

 

[Guest]

Ha ha! I wish. If I'd wanted to just do that I would have put the specs in
a .sig and posted some commented about how great it was to have all the RAM.

dl

 

[Tom Lake]

8GB RAM: 4 x 2GB Mushkin 800 mHz DDR2

That could be your problem. MSI has told me that 800 MHz RAM can only be
used up to
4GB reliably. To use more than 4GB, you might have to use 667MHz or lower
with that motherboard.

Tom Lake

 

[Guest]

Hi

I thought one of the key selling points of a 64bit OS was that it could
address more than 4GB? I recall XP64 made a big deal of that.

I read recently that RAM manufacturers were complaining about slower than
expected Vista uptake since it led to lower RAM sales. I assumed they must
have meant upgrades >4gb, otherwise people would just continue to use XP.

dl

 

[Guest]

Oooh, interesting.

I'll have to try that next time I have a BSOD occur.

I'll let you know how I get on.

thx
dl

 

[Andrew McLaren]

I thought one of the key selling points of a 64bit OS was that it could
address more than 4GB? I recall XP64 made a big deal of that.

You're right - one of the key selling points of a 64bit OS *is* that it
could address more than 4GB.

Windows Vista design parameters can accommodate up to 4GB RAM.

And I have to respectfully disagree with Carey here: "Windows Vista design
parameters can accommodate up to 4GB RAM" is just wrong. 64-bit operating
systems can use virtual memory addresses up to 8TB in size; but x64 XP (and
I believe Vista is the same) are designed for a maximum of 128 GB of RAM.
See (for example):
http://download.microsoft.com/download/e/b/a/eba1050f-a31d-436b-9281-92cdfeae4b45/mem-mgmt.doc

However, taking advantage of the full 4GB-8GB of physical RAM requires a
co-ordinated effort by operating system, chipset and BIOS. It would be true
to say that most current chipsets and BIOSs have design parameters which can
accommodate up to 4GB RAM, max. Fortunately, the MSI PN6 is able to use 8GB
of physical RAM, altough it may only report 7GB in practice (see page 2-8 of
the motherboard's manual). So in broad terms, yes: your system should work
okay.

Why you are getting STOP errors, will depend on exactly which STOP (aka
"BSOD") you are getting. You say "Vista BSODs with the standard error,
0x00007 etc etc" - there are actually more than 50 different STOP 0xhhhhhhhh
errors! None is "standard". More details about the exact error you're seeing
would help diagnose the exact nature of the problem. Does Windows Error
Reporting send the information about your crashes to Microsoft, after you
reboot? Online Crash Analysis (OCA, see http://oca.microsoft.com) is
probably the easisest way to get a detailed analysis of the crash. Or you
could open a Service Request with Microsoft PSS.

(Or use the Windows Debuuging Tools -
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/devtools/debugging/default.mspx - to analyse
the memory dump yourself to see what failed).

While your troubleshooting has confirmed there's definitely some kind of
problem on your system, it is not caused by any fundamental inability of x64
Vista to handle > 2GB or 4GB of RAM (well, apart from the 929777 issue ...
and there may be similar new bugs, waiting in the wings). It could just as
easily be something that requires a BIOS update, or the like.

Hope this helps,
Andrew

PS you've seen http://support.microsoft.com/kb/935806, right?

 

[Guest]

Hi, a friend was having a similar problem with a 4gb configuration, his
system was using 4 sticks of DDR2 8500, he fixed it by providing more voltage
to the chipset, in this case the northbridge. Try and add more voltage, just
make sure its either actively cooled or watercooled, and dont go all the way
up to its max voltage, u dont want to burn it.

 

[Guest]

Hi

That certainly seemed to help!! I am now running only 4gb (as per prior
post that you can only run 4gb at 800, otherwise it's 667), and have upped
the voltage to 2.2v and seem to be doing ok.

Thanks to everyone for their responses, I really appreciate it!

dl

 

[Kerry Brown]

I think I had all the power issues resolved awhile ago. My Patriot
memory needs 2.3v, so I increased my DDR1.8v by 0.5v. My system BIOS
and CPU-z report them at the correct voltages (2.3v).

But when I fully populate my memory slots @ 8Gb I get the BSoD and
serious instability.

Its worth mentioning that a lot of the crashed and instability was
coupled w/ graphics and Vista's DX10.0 driver notices. (But @ 6Gb, I'm
good, no VGA changes)

I thought I may have bad memory but systematically eliminated that as
an issue - only to find relief w/ one slot free @ 6Gb.

My BIOS is up to date, I have all the vista updates successfully
installed, Current VGA drivers... All my hardware drivers are the most
current and seem to function correctly.

This behavior seems quirky, but I'm at a loss as to what else could
cause such fickled behavior.

Any other thoughts?

It's not an inherent problem with Vista. I am running Vista x64 and it's
very stable. It's a problem with how the mother board handles the memory
when all the slots are populated. You would probably have the same problem
if you installed four 1 GB DIMMs. Try running the RAM at a slower speed.
Failing that try some 1.8V RAM.

 

[Robert McMillan]

I have gigabyte EX38-DS4, X9650 @3.5Ghz, Patriot (PC8500) 1066 DDR2
memory and am running Vista x64 premium.

I have had nothing but stability issues w/ fully populated memory banks
@ 8Gb. I was about to go back to XP when I saw a thread discussing the
fact that Vistax64 doesn't seem to like 8Gb installed w/ all memory
banks populated. Some have re-installed Vista w/ 2Gb active and then
populating the remainder. I didn't have any luck there.

I ended up ripping out one stick of DDR2 and living w/ 6Gb. My system
is hauntingly stable. I have run the system through a torture test and
it performed flawlessly... I have now OC'd and its all good - go
figure!?!

If I install the last stick - BSoD and relentless program closures...
%^#$!!

If U R having BSoD issues and are running 8Gb, or are fully populating
your memory banks, try taking a stick out and seeing if your systems
stops crashing.

I'm pissed! I went Vistax64 route to take advantage of the increased
addressing capability.

Thank U Bill Gates! Senior Es-wipe!

I have a gigabyte P35-DS4, Q6600 @3.2Ghz, Generic 8gb DDR2 800Mhz @ 1.8V
running Vista Business x64.
I think it will be a hardware issue rather than a vista issue.

 

[Chuck]

This problem may be related to the motherboard and what happens to the buss
timing with all memory slots populated.
Voltage drop on the motherboard may also be an issue.
I'd be looking for motherboard specific information concerning the problem.
It may be that specific BIOS settings can get you out of the woods.

 

[Nate Grossman]

hmmm...i came here for help & was concerned that this might be the prob.
i have a similar set up

intel c2d e6600 (2.4ghz)
8gb 4 x 2gb g.skill ddr 800
msi p6n diamond mobo

i've been running @ 4gb, but wanted to upgrade to 8gb. now my pc won't
boot. when i take out 1 stick, it will run @ 6gb. i specifically went
to 8gb to take advantage of the feature that allows you to run certain
tasks right through the memory w/o accessing the hard drive(s). oh btw,
it's 64 ultimate that i'm using. if this turns out to be the case, that
will very disappointing...

If by "won't boot" is the PC completely dead? If so, then you have
hardware problems.

Have you experimented with the various sticks singly, then in pairs,
etc.

Have you taken that "1 stick" and put it in place of 1 of the
remaining 3?

 

[AJR]

Regarding "...to take advantage of the feature that allows you to run
certain tasks right through the memory w/o accessing the hard drive(s)...."
Curious - what "feature" and what "tasks" - regardless of the amount of
memory Windows will always, to a degree more or less, utilize virtual
memory.

 

[Curious]

Do you have the latest BIOS available for your MOBO?
I have never heard of or know what feature you are referring to that does
not need to read an application from your HDD at some point before running
it.

 

[Ian D]

Regarding "...to take advantage of the feature that allows you to run
certain tasks right through the memory w/o accessing the hard
drive(s)...."
Curious - what "feature" and what "tasks" - regardless of the amount of
memory Windows will always, to a degree more or less, utilize virtual
memory.


"fatmooseknuckle" <[email protected]>
wrote in message

hmmm...i came here for help & was concerned that this might be the prob.
i have a similar set up

intel c2d e6600 (2.4ghz)
8gb 4 x 2gb g.skill ddr 800
msi p6n diamond mobo

i've been running @ 4gb, but wanted to upgrade to 8gb. now my pc won't
boot. when i take out 1 stick, it will run @ 6gb. i specifically went
to 8gb to take advantage of the feature that allows you to run certain
tasks right through the memory w/o accessing the hard drive(s). oh btw,
it's 64 ultimate that i'm using. if this turns out to be the case, that
will very disappointing...

Maybe he wants to set up a RAM drive.

 

[PaulB]

I doubt if it is Vista. I have 8GB running fine. I would suspect your
hardware. Get a copy of MEMTEST86+ (runs from boot) and test the RAM, one
stick at a time. Then in various combinations.
It may be that all 8GB won't run with the stock settings in BIOS, i.e.
voltage, timing etc.

 

[Mark H]

Per MSI website:
Due to the High Performance Memory design, motherboards or system
configurations may or may not operate smoothly at the JEDEC (Joint Electron
Device Engineering Council) standard settings (BIOS Default on the
motherboard) such as DDR2 voltage, memory speeds and memory timing. Please
confirm and adjust your memory setting in the BIOS accordingly for better
system stability.
Example: Kingston HyperX DDR2-800 PC6400 operates at 2.0V, 4-4-4-12.
For more information about specification of high performance memory modules,
please check with your Memory Manufactures for more details.
For the best performance and commitment of convenience, please visit MSI
approved memory module vendor list (MSI AVL), which provides the easiest,
up-to-date memory configurations.

 

[Mark H]

Because it fails when he puts in the fourth stick, this is most likely a
voltage problem which needs to be set in the BIOS and is indicated as a
potential problem by the mobo manufacturer.