Vista licensing between two architectures

[Nathan Alden]

Hwllo,

It¹s been a long four years since I¹ve used Usenet, but I have a question
about Vista.

For the record, I bought and installed Vista Ultimate yesterday for a
home-brewed AMD Athlon64 clone. It runs very well, although I still think
Vista itself is very un-original (I use both Macs and IBM clones). But I
digress.

My question today is in regards to licensing.

I have two machines: a desktop (referenced above) and a notebook. The
latter is a first-generation Apple MacBook Pro (15.4²/2.0 GHz Core Duo/1 GB
RAM/100 GB HD) from August of last year. Apple¹s Boot Camp has helped
immensely in running Windows XP, which I do because I¹m a service tech who
supports both Mac and Windows. Plus, I love to experiment from time to
time. On or about November, I decided to scrub my XP install, resize the
Windows volume and give the preview of Vista a shot. That preview ran (and
still runs) with very few hiccups.

I¹d like to upgrade the Mac from RC1 to the final, but here¹s the rub: I¹ve
got Vista installed on the 64-bit machine already, and would like a second
license for the Mac. The Mac is 32-bit, being first-generation Intel and
all. I have both 32-bit and 64-bit DVDs. Naturally, the x64 DVD was
already used, as was the key. I¹ve no problem with getting a second license
before the preview expires.

But I wonder if it¹s possible to purchase just the license, as I have the
media handy. If so, how? And while we¹re on it, can this be done in a way
that saves even a small amount of money?

Nathan Alden
Kent, WA
(e-mail address removed)

 

[Rock]

Yes you can buy a second license - from MS - but the cost is only slightly
less than the full retail price of the product, like $20 less, so you're
better off buying a package from your favorite discount computer software
retailer.

 

[Saucy Lemon]

You say you "..I love to experiment from time to time". You might consider
getting a Technet subscription which gains you access to all the Microsoft
operating systems (the XPs, the Server 2003s, the Vistas and even upcoming
Betas). You can install any one and all of them on up to ten computers
each. You may evalutate test and experiment, so to speak, but not use them
on "production machines". In other words, the Technet license is associated
to you the subscriber rather than any individual computer. You can't share
the licenses and you can't use them for production purposes. But for someone
who likes to tinker 'n test, it might be ideal for you. And the cost is
reasonable, about 360 USD.

http://technet.microsoft.com

Saucy

Hwllo,

It's been a long four years since I've used Usenet, but I have a question
about Vista.

For the record, I bought and installed Vista Ultimate yesterday for a
home-brewed AMD Athlon64 clone. It runs very well, although I still think
Vista itself is very un-original (I use both Macs and IBM clones). But I
digress.

My question today is in regards to licensing.

I have two machines: a desktop (referenced above) and a notebook. The
latter is a first-generation Apple MacBook Pro (15.4"/2.0 GHz Core Duo/1 GB
RAM/100 GB HD) from August of last year. Apple's Boot Camp has helped
immensely in running Windows XP, which I do because I'm a service tech who
supports both Mac and Windows. Plus, I love to experiment from time to
time. On or about November, I decided to scrub my XP install, resize the
Windows volume and give the preview of Vista a shot. That preview ran (and
still runs) with very few hiccups.

I'd like to upgrade the Mac from RC1 to the final, but here's the rub: I've
got Vista installed on the 64-bit machine already, and would like a second
license for the Mac. The Mac is 32-bit, being first-generation Intel and
all. I have both 32-bit and 64-bit DVDs. Naturally, the x64 DVD was
already used, as was the key. I've no problem with getting a second license
before the preview expires.

But I wonder if it's possible to purchase just the license, as I have the
media handy. If so, how? And while we're on it, can this be done in a way
that saves even a small amount of money?

Nathan Alden
Kent, WA
(e-mail address removed)

 

[BSchnur]

I was looking into the Technet and Technet plus subscriptions -- was
wondering regarding content. The information provided on the Technet
site seems artfully vague regarding Vista -- regarding which Vista is
included and what sort of licensing is provided for a subscriber.

Do happen to know what's on offer there?

 

[Saucy Lemon]

If you get a Technet download subscription, Vista is available in all
flavours except Starter and Enterprise. That's both the Home versions,
Business, and Ultimate in both 32 and 64 bits. Windows Server is also
available in its many flavours except Data Center. The Beta [Longhorn] of
the upcoming Server 200x is available too. Just download the ISO files and
burn them to disc.

What happens with Vista is that two ISOs are available, one in 32 and on in
64 bits. When installing, just enter the product key for which ever version
you want installed Home, Business etc. and that version will install. Also,
for the 32 bit version, a set of CD-ROM ISOs are available for download.

A lot of other software is available, including SQL Server and most of the
flavours of Microsoft Office.

When buying the subscription, you agree to the Technet EULA.

Saucy Lemon

 

[BSchnur]

OK -- sounds promising -- thanks for the information. My use in the
office for the products is very much test and support oriented -- I
have separate licensing for my 'work' systems here.

 

[Rock]

I was looking into the Technet and Technet plus subscriptions -- was
wondering regarding content. The information provided on the Technet
site seems artfully vague regarding Vista -- regarding which Vista is
included and what sort of licensing is provided for a subscriber.

Do happen to know what's on offer there?

Technet software is only to be used for testing purposes. You have to agree
to the Technet EULA. It is not for production machines.

 

[BSchnur]

OK -- note, I've got the MAPS and that provided the full set of product
in the past, but for whatever reasons Microsoft has reduced the content
this year -- Vista Business 32 upgrade only. So I was interested in
the offerings with Technet as that may end up my single subscription of
choice.

 

[BSchnur]

Technet software is only to be used for testing purposes. You have to agree

to the Technet EULA. It is not for production machines.

OK -- my intent is to use it on 'support' systems. I have separate
licenses in hand for my production systems. Are support systems
defined as production or testing? I suppose we'd need to convene a
court of EULAlogists to make a determination.

 

[Saucy Lemon]

I use Technet. I also bought one retail copy of Vista for a computer here.
When you get the Technet just be a bit circumspect how you use it. Take the
time to read the Technet EULA. Don't make the mistake of giving away copies
etc. etc. etc. The idea of Technet subscription is so you can test and
evaluate all the various editions and so on which would otherwise be
prohibitively expensive. If all you want is one copy of Vista so you can
just use it, get a retail. But if you are a techy and are all over it,
re-installing again and again, and trying things out, then get a Technet.

Saucy Lemon

 

[Dale]

I use Technet. I also bought one retail copy of Vista for a computer here.
When you get the Technet just be a bit circumspect how you use it. Take the
time to read the Technet EULA.

Thank you.

 

[Rock]

OK -- my intent is to use it on 'support' systems. I have separate
licenses in hand for my production systems. Are support systems
defined as production or testing? I suppose we'd need to convene a
court of EULAlogists to make a determination.

Sorry not my area. Maybe someone else wants to offer their opinion on what
is legitimate use under Technet.

 

[BSchnur]

I use Technet. I also bought one retail copy of Vista for a computer here.

When you get the Technet just be a bit circumspect how you use it. Take the
time to read the Technet EULA. Don't make the mistake of giving away copies
etc. etc. etc. The idea of Technet subscription is so you can test and
evaluate all the various editions and so on which would otherwise be
prohibitively expensive. If all you want is one copy of Vista so you can
just use it, get a retail. But if you are a techy and are all over it,
re-installing again and again, and trying things out, then get a Technet.

OK -- makes sense. I'm not sure when I'll migrate my production
systems to Vista anyway. Heck, my primary workstation still runs
properly licensed Windows 2000 and the systems I use for forensics work
are using licensed XP Pro and may well *need to* for quite a while.
Any notebooks I have use licensed XP Pro.

At the moment, I have three systems running Vista -- two using the RC1
Windows Ultimate 64 which I use to check out performance and
compatibility. The third is one set up using the MAPS license to
upgrade over a previously MAPS licensed XP Pro.

I would NEVER hand out MAPS or (if I had them) Technet licenses, just
as I NEVER hand out my Novell NRPS licenses. Heck, the two Novell
servers I have in house are licensed totally separate from the NRPS
licenses I have as I consider them production servers for the home
network (my wife has a separate Win2K workstation which uses the
servers for storing files since they get backed up nightly to tape).

The potential grey area is, would having a system installed for support
purposes, but not as a production system be interpreted as a violation?
Does support for end users (checking out compatibility, swapping out
hardware as well as software to make that determination, using the
system to be able to walk a client thru step by step problem
resolution, that sort of thing) constitute fair use of a TechNet
provided software?

MAPS provides server licenses as well -- and later this year I
anticipate setting up a Windows Server -- just ran across a spiffy
Promise EX8350 which seems to be just the ticket for a server set up.

 

[BSchnur]

Sorry not my area. Maybe someone else wants to offer their opinion on what

is legitimate use under Technet.

Understood, might one of those where folks here take the 5th and
declare IANAL <smile>.

 

[Dale]

Exactly.. a wink and a nod.. and then it's ok to steal. Not saying everyone
that uses TechNet subscriptions for Vista is stealing or even that you would
be. I don't know what your job is or if you have legitimate uses for a
TechNet subscription. But, if you have to take the 5th about it then you
knew it was wrong when you did it.

Why does that not surprise me from you? You live in a euphemistic world
where as long as we don't call anything what it is, then we all just do what
we want. And anyone who says we are wrong is the bad guy.

Dale

 

[Dale]

OK -- makes sense. I'm not sure when I'll migrate my production
systems to Vista anyway. Heck, my primary workstation still runs
properly licensed Windows 2000 and the systems I use for forensics work
are using licensed XP Pro and may well *need to* for quite a while.
Any notebooks I have use licensed XP Pro.

At the moment, I have three systems running Vista -- two using the RC1
Windows Ultimate 64 which I use to check out performance and
compatibility. The third is one set up using the MAPS license to
upgrade over a previously MAPS licensed XP Pro.

I would NEVER hand out MAPS or (if I had them) Technet licenses, just
as I NEVER hand out my Novell NRPS licenses. Heck, the two Novell
servers I have in house are licensed totally separate from the NRPS
licenses I have as I consider them production servers for the home
network (my wife has a separate Win2K workstation which uses the
servers for storing files since they get backed up nightly to tape).

The potential grey area is, would having a system installed for support
purposes, but not as a production system be interpreted as a violation?
Does support for end users (checking out compatibility, swapping out
hardware as well as software to make that determination, using the
system to be able to walk a client thru step by step problem
resolution, that sort of thing) constitute fair use of a TechNet
provided software?

Support is production work. You cannot use it for doing day to day
operations of your business. The Technet subscription licenses are for
evaluation toward the end goal of making a recommendation or decision about
using Microsoft technologies and their fit or usability for a specific
purpose.

<QUOTE URL="http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/ms772427.aspx">
Can I use evaluation software received in my TechNet subscription at home?
In most cases, yes: the license grants installation and use rights to one
user only, for evaluation purposes, on any of the user's devices. Each
individual product, however, can have its own license agreement, which will
control how many installations are allowed. Keep in mind that you may use
the evaluation software only to evaluate it. You may not use it in a live
operating environment, a staging environment, or with data that has not been
sufficiently backed up. You may not use the evaluation software for software
development or in an application development environment.

 

[BSchnur]

Support is production work. You cannot use it for doing day to day

operations of your business. The Technet subscription licenses are for
evaluation toward the end goal of making a recommendation or decision about
using Microsoft technologies and their fit or usability for a specific
purpose.

OK thanks for that information. Makes sense, while to some degree my
use of Vista on those systems will be to evaluate whether it makes
sense for my clients, certainly eventually, it will more to support
them.

 

[Dale]

Well, if you needed additional boxes that were not your production or
troubleshooting boxes, it would seem to fit.

 

[BSchnur]

Exactly.. a wink and a nod.. and then it's ok to steal. Not saying everyone
that uses TechNet subscriptions for Vista is stealing or even that you would
be. I don't know what your job is or if you have legitimate uses for a
TechNet subscription. But, if you have to take the 5th about it then you
knew it was wrong when you did it.

Dale, there you go again (you did vote for Reagan didn't you), you are
(and I think it might simply be intentional for the food fight joy of
it) misreading my response and its context. I was saying that Rock in
saying:

was being appropriate and not making an interpretation of the TechNet
EULA.

You provided your view and then provided the actual text -- and I
appreciate that and responded accordingly.

Why does that not surprise me from you? You live in a euphemistic world
where as long as we don't call anything what it is, then we all just do what
we want. And anyone who says we are wrong is the bad guy.

WHY MUST YOU INSIST ON JUDGMENTAL BULLCRAP REGARDING WHO I AM, WHAT I
DO AND HOW I RESPOND! It really makes you look pretty STUPID.

There, do you feel better, I am responding to you in terms you can
understand.

Gosh, that hurt.

 

[BSchnur]

Well, if you needed additional boxes that were not your production or

troubleshooting boxes, it would seem to fit.

Right -- might well be grey area -- what I might end up doing is
discussing with the local Microsoft folks here or via phone call or
better yet via email to get something direct from Microsoft
representing their interpretation.

It is not my intent to violate the licensing agreement - I haven't in
the past (to the best of my knowledge).

Since I build computers for my clients, at least some of the use is to
verify that the configurations will play nice with Vista. Some of the
use is to verify that applications would place nice with Vista. My
understanding, if I read your view correctly, is that use is consistent
with the TechNet EULA.

I don't plan for now to use a Vista system on any of my day to day work
systems -- at least during the coming year (in part because Novell's
Vista client will never support communication to my production 4.2 NW
server). For those I'm 'married' to my production licensed Windows
2000 and Windows XP. Heck, I'm still running Reflex for an aging
application I put together some 20 years ago and I KNOW that will never
run on Vista.

Before I run VISTA as my production system, I'll need to:

1) Reconfigure servers so that my licensed NetWare SBS 6.5 server
is my production server and the 4.2 server is retired.

2) Finally convert that Reflex application to something that
doesn't live in a DOS full screen only mode.

3) Build up a nice system for me to replace my AMD XP2700
768M system (cobblers child syndrome).

4) Purchase a production license so I can readily do a
clean boot install. (even with Vista 32 I can not -
do an in place even if I wanted to -- Win2K). Besides
given any chance, I much rather would do a full up
start from scratch install and transfer data as needed.