Vista is asking for reactivation!

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Shane said:
ok by default the motherboard is the one basic part that they consider
to be consistent in order for a PC to be what it is.
Click to expand...
First of all, who is they? And if "they" want to define what the
"default" is, then let "them" spell it out in unambiguous terms and
language. Please cite a source where such a default is stated in
unambiguous terms and language.
You can upgrade the CPU, HD, Video, etc all you want, but the fact
remains that changing the motherboard is changing the PC.
Click to expand...
I disagree. Neither of us have a "fact". You have your opinion, and I
have a differing opinion, but nothing is proven one way or another. If
it remains unsettled and unproven, then one interpretation is as valid
as the next.
What you are saying is similar to customizing a car with an entirely new
engine and drive-train and saying it's the same car.
Click to expand...
A car has nothing to do with what we are discussing but I will bite.
When I owned a 1968 roadrunner (purchased new), I had the engine
balanced and blueprinted ,added a high performance cam, headers,
carburetor, heavy duty clutch, different rear end ratio and other
extras. Had I blown the engine while racing, and decided that I needed a
426 hemi rather than the original 383 that came with the car, I would
have still had a roadrunner. Are you going to state that the changes I
made or even a complete engine change would have made it a different car?
Sure the outside looks the same but I can tell you right now, it's not
the same car.
Click to expand...
I guess you would, lol. However, the title that I held to the car
described above stated that it was, before and after all the
alterations, the same car, and was sold as a used 1968 roadrunner.
 
So now you're implying that changing my MB and using my licensed copy of
Vista is theft? Where are you getting your information? It was a simple
question. You made the statement; "If you installed the OEM version,
changing MOBO is a violation of that agreement". I was just looking for
proof.

Woody
 
Pecos said:
Woody said:
Can you please direct me within the EULA where "changing MOBO is a
violation of that agreement".
Click to expand...

Hi Woody,

You might want to read the previous forum discussion on this topic at:
http://forums.techarena.in/showthread.php?s=299c49401fdae94476f1d42224fe00e9&t=690352

Also, I am going to repost one of my previous posts. There seemed to be
no interest at the time, but I would still like an answer:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I was reviewing the OEM license again and remembered that there is a
'PREINSTALLATION REQUIREMENT' clause, item six, that requires the 'system
builder' to use the OEM Preinstallation Kit ("OPK"). While this makes no
sense whatsoever that I can see for someone installing the OEM version on
their own 'device', it is required per the EULA.

Does this OPK software come with the OEM version or do you have to sign up
for the Microsoft Partner Program at
http://www.microsoft.com/oem/sblicense/OPK/default.mspx in order to
download
it?

Have any retail OEM customers out there actually used this OPK? If so, how
does it work? Does it install a EULA on the device that you, the end user,
must accept that is any different from this one at
http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/P...B_License.pdf?

Does anyone besides me really care? :-)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
And this is another post that I wanted to make to that original thread,
but didn't when the interest waned:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry for opening up this can of worms again, but one of the worms crawled
out! :-)

The OEM EULA also says in clause 6 that the 'system builder' cannot
distribute the OPK software or instructions to the 'end user'. If I am the
'system builder' and 'end user', I can't distribute the software or
instructions to myself even though I am required to use it?? Huh? [Insert
Scooby Doo sound track here.]

How are we expected to read, understand and follow these EULA's when they
make no sense?

They need two OEM EULA's, one for 'system builders and resellers' and one
for 'end user system builders'.

Microsoft needs to go back to the drawing board on this one. It's a real
mess, even downright embarrassing.

BTW Ken, tell your boss for me that you deserve a promotion. ;-)
--
Alan Norton
Reviews Including ABIT AN8 SLI, ECS P965T-A & Foxconn 975X7AB-8EKRS2H
Motherboards
Guide to Choosing the Right Version Of Vista For You - Vista Confusion
Article
Arizona Pics
No Spam - Just a gratuitous plea for more hardware to test :-)
http://www.mindspring.com/~anorton1/
Click to expand...

Very interseting reading. It is apparent the EULA and the SB license are
unclear and open to much interpretation. I certainly agree MS needs to
revisit their agreements.

Thanks,

Woody
 
Norm

I have no ideas about the EULA issue ---- but do you still have the
RoadRunner? :-)

Have a great day,
Thor
 
I was making an analogy but obviously english is not your native language
or, if it is, you have a sorry command of it's usage.

For your own personal education an analogy is a resemblance in some
particulars between things that are otherwise dissimilar.

I do some side work for MS and I can tell you right now that it's not
unclear if you read the SBL.

Read this very carefully, this is part of the SBL attached to all OEM
copies.
4.1 We grant you a nonexclusive right to distribute an individual
software license only with a fully assembled computer system. A "fully
assembled computer system" means a computer system consisting of at least a
central processing unit, a motherboard, a hard drive, a power supply, and a
case.

As stated before if you are replacing or upgrading parts within the same
"generation" of parts then you are well within your rights to do so.

However let's say that you decide to move from a socket AM2 based AMD system
to a socket AM3 based system to take advantage of the newer processor
features then indeed you are creating a new computer which would require a
new license. Even more drastic, moving from AMD to Intel, would also be
considered building a new machine.
 
Re:
John Barnes wrote:
You usually have to reactivate after several hardware changes. Use
telephone activation if you are having problems with the web activation.
Explain the situation. If you installed the OEM version, changing MOBO is a
violation of that agreement, if you have a retail (either full or upgrade)
they will walk you thru the reactivation.

I used the telephone activation and the rep took me through it and helped me
to reactivate without any troubles.
Thanks for the advice John.

Jon
 
thor said:
Norm

I have no ideas about the EULA issue ---- but do you still have the
RoadRunner? :-)
Click to expand...

I wish. :( It ran in the high twelves against a g stock record of
12.36, if I remember correctly. It was just too heavy for the class it
was in, but it was great fun. All good things have to come to an end,
and as marriage and kids appeared, the toys disappeared. I doubt I will
ever have another fast car like that, but in 03, I finally bought
another motorcycle. Of course, it will never match the kawasaki 750
three banger I had after the roadrunner, which also disappeared as
marriage and kids appeared. But power and speed don't hold the appeal
they once did, either, so I am content. ;)
Have a great day,
Thor
Click to expand...
 
Shane said:
I was making an analogy but obviously english is not your native
language or, if it is, you have a sorry command of it's usage.
Click to expand...
I am sorry you feel that way. You might know something, maybe a lot, but
given the above statement, simple courtesy and civility are not among
your virtues.
For your own personal education an analogy is a resemblance in some
particulars between things that are otherwise dissimilar.
Click to expand...
I know what an analogy is, and if I didn't, I know where to find a
definition. Thanks anyway. Please feel free to remain condescending and
smug. You will certainly be more persuasive if you do so.
I do some side work for MS and I can tell you right now that it's not
unclear if you read the SBL.
Click to expand...
That is your opinion, and mine differs. Whom you work for is of no
concern to me.
Read this very carefully, this is part of the SBL attached to all OEM
copies.
4.1 We grant you a nonexclusive right to distribute an individual
software license only with a fully assembled computer system. A "fully
assembled computer system" means a computer system consisting of at
least a central processing unit, a motherboard, a hard drive, a power
supply, and a case.
Click to expand...
And when I create a system for myself, it does include those components
listed. The above does NOT say that the computer system is defined as
ONLY a motherboard nor does it EMPHASIZE in any way that the motherboard
is the defining feature of the said computer system.
As stated before if you are replacing or upgrading parts within the same
"generation" of parts then you are well within your rights to do so.
However let's say that you decide to move from a socket AM2 based AMD
system to a socket AM3 based system to take advantage of the newer
processor features then indeed you are creating a new computer which
would require a new license. Even more drastic, moving from AMD to
Intel, would also be considered building a new machine.
Click to expand...
The builders agreement contains no such language and your statement is,
in the absence of corroboration, just your opinion.
 
For some reason this didn't post early as an addendum to what I had said so
I'll post it again.

As an update to what I said earlier.

This was asked in a licensing Q&A with Microsoft.

JD - Microsoft (Expert):
Q: I hate to reiterate the meeting, but you said if you upgrade a mobo in
any pc you are required to purchase a new os correct?
A: Yes, the OEM OS is tied to the motherboard. So, if the motherboard fails
while under warranty the license remains intact. However, if you are simply
upgrading for feature or performance enhancements, you would need a new OS
license.

So basically you have EXACTLY what I told you in slightly different wording.

The OS is tied to the motherboard via the BIOS.

If you change the motherboard for reasons other than "warranty" repair then
it is invalid.

Now here is the loophole. IF the motherboard you're using fails, AND that
model is no longer made, AND IF you are the "OEM" dictating the warranty
support then yes you could upgrade the OS and have that license still be
supported.

However if you're just upgrading to upgrade, then you're just crap out of
luck.


Also I am typically a courteous, civil person, however these newsgroups do
not typically allow that to be the case.

When I am dealing with someone who refuses to accept the word of someone,
like myself, who knows the ins & outs due to the nature of my work it's
frustrating. I tend to get more than slightly testy and start explaining
things they way that I explain them to kids.

Sometimes that's what is needed on these Newsgroups.

But basically now you have it from an actual licensing chat with direct MS
employees and my statement as someone who does some side work for them.

Do you really need more?
 
Shane said:
For some reason this didn't post early as an addendum to what I had said
so I'll post it again.

As an update to what I said earlier.

This was asked in a licensing Q&A with Microsoft.

JD - Microsoft (Expert):
Q: I hate to reiterate the meeting, but you said if you upgrade a mobo in
any pc you are required to purchase a new os correct?
A: Yes, the OEM OS is tied to the motherboard. So, if the motherboard fails
while under warranty the license remains intact. However, if you are simply
upgrading for feature or performance enhancements, you would need a new OS
license.

So basically you have EXACTLY what I told you in slightly different
wording.

The OS is tied to the motherboard via the BIOS.

If you change the motherboard for reasons other than "warranty" repair then
it is invalid.

Now here is the loophole. IF the motherboard you're using fails, AND that
model is no longer made, AND IF you are the "OEM" dictating the warranty
support then yes you could upgrade the OS and have that license still be
supported.

However if you're just upgrading to upgrade, then you're just crap out of
luck.


Also I am typically a courteous, civil person, however these newsgroups
do not typically allow that to be the case.

When I am dealing with someone who refuses to accept the word of
someone, like myself, who knows the ins & outs due to the nature of my
work it's frustrating. I tend to get more than slightly testy and start
explaining things they way that I explain them to kids.

Sometimes that's what is needed on these Newsgroups.

But basically now you have it from an actual licensing chat with direct
MS employees and my statement as someone who does some side work for them.

Do you really need more?
Click to expand...

I don't doubt that what you have stated is sincere and based on what you
are told or understand from your reading of the agreement or the eula.
The crux of the matter still remains that what is stated by the system
builders agreement and the eula do not spell out in an unequivocal
manner the terms as you describe them. If an agreement or eula means
"abc", then it should state what "abc" is. It seems simple enough. I
know as a customer that I would be better served if this were the case.
As things stand now, when I purchase vista, it will be an oem version.
What happens after the purchase will depend on circumstances yet unknown.
 
Only with regards to the OP. If the MOBO change is because of a defective
MOBO it is in compliance. If the MOBO change is to 'upgrade' for new
features it is considered a new computer and requires a new OS.
 
John said:
Lets be honest, you don't care about anything but justifying theft.
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/chats/trans/sysbuild/05_0222_sb.mspx

http://discuss.pcmag.com/forums/thread/1004364651.aspx
Click to expand...

Upgrading a motherboard is not theft. Nothing was stolen. Breeching an
EULA is a civil offense (one that MS hasn't deigned to pursue by suing
anyone BTW). Theft is a criminal offense and can be petty theft or grand
theft. Which do you think upgrading the motherboard is, petty or grand
theft and what, exactly, was stolen? If MS can't be happy with one OS
per machine, they can bite the big one as far as I am concerned and
would have no problem whatsoever in lying to them to get my legally
bought software activated. I would just say Windows Updates screwed up
my computer or I got a virus so I reinstalled Windows and don't know
anything about what a motherboard is or isn't.

Alias
 
Lets be honest, you don't care about anything but justifying theft.
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/chats/trans/sysbuild/05_0222
_sb.mspx http://discuss.pcmag.com/forums/thread/1004364651.aspx
Click to expand...

OK, I'll be honest.......

I honestly don't think you can read. I asked for a legally binding
document, NOT a forum discussion, or a discussion. It is surely not in
the End-User EULA.

Theft has nothing to do with it. My argument is that a different MB is
NOT a new PC. It may be a new component in an old system, but by far, it
is not a new computer.

You fail to see the point. I can buy a $300 Dell special with the O/S
pre-installed. The MB fries. Yes I can buy that exact model MB from
Dell.........for another $300. Or I can get a $100 (or less)
replacement....oh, and then buy the O/S all over again...another $200
(depending) ? You might as well buy an entirely new $300 system.
 
Only with regards to the OP. If the MOBO change is because of a defective
MOBO it is in compliance. If the MOBO change is to 'upgrade' for new
features it is considered a new computer and requires a new OS.
 
Alias said:
Upgrading a motherboard is not theft. Nothing was stolen. Breeching an
EULA is a civil offense (one that MS hasn't deigned to pursue by suing
anyone BTW). Theft is a criminal offense and can be petty theft or grand
theft. Which do you think upgrading the motherboard is, petty or grand
theft and what, exactly, was stolen? If MS can't be happy with one OS
per machine, they can bite the big one as far as I am concerned and
would have no problem whatsoever in lying to them to get my legally
bought software activated. I would just say Windows Updates screwed up
my computer or I got a virus so I reinstalled Windows and don't know
anything about what a motherboard is or isn't.

Alias
Click to expand...

Better yet, noone has to lie. Considering you are only required to give
a few pieces of information for activation, the rest of it is none of
their business. Just tell them so politely of course. :)

http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/activation_facts.mspx

Mandatory Product Activation Data

* The Installation ID is unique to each product and comprises two
components:

1. Product ID. Unique to the product key used during installation
2. Hardware hash. Non-unique representation of the PC

* The country in which the product is being installed (for Office
XP and Office XP family products only)



--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

Most recent idiotic quote added to KICK (Klassic Idiotic Caption Kooks):
"DRM is not added to anything in Vista."

"Good poets borrow; great poets steal."
- T. S. Eliot
 
John said:
Only with regards to the OP. If the MOBO change is because of a defective
MOBO it is in compliance. If the MOBO change is to 'upgrade' for new
features it is considered a new computer and requires a new OS.
Click to expand...
Damn, John, I can't thank you enough for setting me straight as to what
(according to ms) a computer really is. I can't believe how cheaply
newegg is selling them. And I even recognize the brand name. The only
thing that puzzles me is that the manufacturer calls them motherboards,
rather than computers. Of course, they must not have conferred first
with ms as to what they actually are. But I am not worried. If ms says
they are computers, how can I argue. Look at the amazing prices offered
on these beauties at this site:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...escription=&srchInDesc=&CMP=KNC-GoogleAdwords
All I need to do is add a monitor, keyboard, mouse and maybe speakers
from my stock pile of them, purchase an ms os, and I am good to go. I
can save a ton of money and maybe not have to buy just an oem version of
vista. I can probably afford the most expensive version now. Again, I
can't thank you enough. I am looking forward to conversing more with you
when I have my new system up and running.
 
Very interseting reading. It is apparent the EULA and the SB license
are unclear and open to much interpretation. I certainly agree MS
needs to revisit their agreements.

Thanks,

Woody
Click to expand...

THAT my friends is the problem, LEGALLY BINDING agreements MUST be clear,
concise, exact, and not open to interpretation.
 
Very interseting reading. It is apparent the EULA and the SB license
are unclear and open to much interpretation. I certainly agree MS
needs to revisit their agreements.

Thanks,

Woody
Click to expand...

THAT my friends is the problem, LEGALLY BINDING agreements MUST be clear,
concise, exact, and not open to interpretation.
 
Nina said:
Better yet, noone has to lie. Considering you are only required to give
a few pieces of information for activation, the rest of it is none of
their business. Just tell them so politely of course. :)

http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/activation_facts.mspx

Mandatory Product Activation Data

* The Installation ID is unique to each product and comprises two
components:

1. Product ID. Unique to the product key used during installation
2. Hardware hash. Non-unique representation of the PC

* The country in which the product is being installed (for Office XP
and Office XP family products only)
Click to expand...

That would work too but playing dumb is probably quicker.

Alias
 
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