VB.NET or C#.NET ???

[Cor Ligthert [MVP]]

Jon,

Now, do you have anything to back up your assertion that VB.NET
programmers "know better" (presumably meaning "do more research before
using something"?) and that they have a better time with VB.NET than C#
programmers have with C#?

You can think that I wrote as you tell. However, it is not written and not
intended in that way. I never write that VB.Net developpers have a better
time with VB.Net than C# programmers have with C#. I think that it is (can
be) in my opinion completely egal. You should known that I will never write
things like that.

However, in my idea I have seen more really crazy sentences which are based
on bias from people using C# than from the VBNet users. Maybe are those not
so sure when their is bloated about OOP, however even that is the start of
research.

Cor

 

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

Jon,

I think that's just as biased an opinion as the pro-C# ones coming from
Milan's friends, to be honest. I don't think it's reasonable to make
that kind of generalisation without pretty detailed research which I
very much doubt you've done. (And as far as I know, no-one else has
done either.)

Mhm... I do not have concrete empirical data, but I read many VB.NET and C#
weblogs on a regular basis and I realize that VBers more often use both
VB.NET and C# while on the other hand C#ies only use C# and hate everything
which doesn't have curly braces.

 

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

You can think that I wrote as you tell. However, it is not written and not
intended in that way. I never write that VB.Net developpers have a better
time with VB.Net than C# programmers have with C#. I think that it is (can
be) in my opinion completely egal. You should known that I will never write
things like that.

I was surprised, but having read your post several times I couldn't see
any other way of understanding what you were saying. What *were* you
trying to say?

The sentence I'm really puzzled by is (speaking of VB.NET programmers):
"They know better and have therefore much more pleasure with their
product."

If you could spell that out in detail, it would be appreciated. I hope
that if you look back to your post you'll see how easy it was to
interpret it the way I did.

However, in my idea I have seen more really crazy sentences which are based
on bias from people using C# than from the VBNet users. Maybe are those not
so sure when their is bloated about OOP, however even that is the start of
research.

Yes, there are plenty of biased views around. However, adding another
biased view to the "other side" doesn't help, IMO. I understand you may
not have been trying to do so, but as I said before, I think if you
reread the post (trying to do so from the point of view of someone who
didn't know what you were trying to say beforehand) you'll see what I
mean.

Jon

 

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

Mhm... I do not have concrete empirical data, but I read many VB.NET and C#
weblogs on a regular basis and I realize that VBers more often use both
VB.NET and C# while on the other hand C#ies only use C# and hate everything
which doesn't have curly braces.

Whereas there are plenty of C# newsgroups posts along the lines of "I
have to use both VB.NET and C# at work, but out of choice I'd always
use C#"

Jon

 

[Cor Ligthert [MVP]]

I was surprised, but having read your post several times I couldn't see

any other way of understanding what you were saying. What *were* you
trying to say?

"They know better and have therefore much more pleasure with their
product."

If (InvestigatedOwnProduct) PleasureInOwnProduct = PleasureInOwnProduct +
10;

Not

If (InvestigatedOwnProduct) PleasureInOwnProduct = C#Product-10;

There is a better word than "product", however would be wrong in these
newsgroups according to the message.



Cor

 

[Cor Ligthert [MVP]]

Jon,

Whereas there are plenty of C# newsgroups posts along the lines of "I
have to use both VB.NET and C# at work, but out of choice I'd always
use C#"

However in the VBNet newsgroups are a lot who are about the oposite. Does
that say something about better or worse or whatever.

I think that most people in this message thread have given the right answer,
so why to start a kind of C# VBNet war or it should be because of fun, I can
only laugh about that.

Cor

 

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

However in the VBNet newsgroups are a lot who are about the oposite. Does
that say something about better or worse or whatever.

Absolutely not. I was just countering Herfried's anecdotal evidence
with a similar but opposite piece, to show that neither of them are
particularly conclusive.

I think that most people in this message thread have given the right answer,
so why to start a kind of C# VBNet war or it should be because of fun, I can
only laugh about that.

Sure. (And in case anyone should doubt it, I certainly disagree with
the advice given to the OP by his colleagues.)

Jon

 

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

Absolutely not. I was just countering Herfried's anecdotal evidence
with a similar but opposite piece, to show that neither of them are
particularly conclusive.

Do you remember the "Anti-VB.COM-petition activism" which has been mainly
driven by C#-only programmers, which was mainly political than based on
rational argumentation? I agree with you that it's hard to get conclusive
results by mentioning some examples only.

 

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

Do you remember the "Anti-VB.COM-petition activism" which has been mainly
driven by C#-only programmers, which was mainly political than based on
rational argumentation?

Not sure exactly what you mean. I certainly remember Karl's petition,
if that's what you're talking about. Otherwise I may have missed it...

(There are plenty of rational reasons why some people prefer C# and
plenty of other rational reasons why some people prefer VB.NET, of
course...)

I agree with you that it's hard to get conclusive
results by mentioning some examples only.

Yup. My dad has a lovely quote about it: "The plural of 'anecdote' is
not 'evidence'"

Jon

 

[Kevin Spencer]

Yup. My dad has a lovely quote about it: "The plural of 'anecdote' is

not 'evidence'"

My Uncle Chutney sez that the second cousin of 'anecdote' is 'antidote.'

But then sometimes he gets so deep that he sinks.

He invented a new word the other day: "Frubasticate." It means "To obfuscate
beyond all recognition."

--
;-),

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
We got a sick zebra a hat,
you ultimate tuna.

 

[Ignacio Machin \( .NET/ C# MVP \)]

Hi,

As others have already said, there is no reason to use a C-style language
today any more to get things done. If you have a VB background, I suggest
to turn to VB.NET and learn to read C#, which is often useful when dealing
with code using .NET classes. VB.NET is at least as alive as C#.

I would suggest the opposite, start with C# , it will be a slower start but
you will not "inherit" the bad habits you adquire using VBA , you start
freshly with a complete new set of concepts and way to write code.

I have seen a good amount of VERY BAD VB.NET code that scream it was
written by somebody who changed from VB6 to VB.NET in a similar way that
when they changed from VB5 to VB6

 

[Kevin Spencer]

I have seen a good amount of VERY BAD VB.NET code that scream it was

written by somebody who changed from VB6 to VB.NET in a similar way that
when they changed from VB5 to VB6

I have seen a lot of VERY BAD C# code, but that's no reflection on the C#
language. It is a reflection on the developer. If the developer is a good
one, he/she will write good code in any language. If the developer is a bad
one, he/she will write bad code in any language.

Now, admittedly, I have seen *more* bad VB.Net code than C# code, but again,
this is not a reflection on the language. It might be a reflection on the
users of the language in general, but not necessarily (one would have to
compile some verifiable statistics), and again, certainly not upon any
individual user of the language, nor on the language itself.

I've met a lot of people that speak English poorly as well, for example, but
that doesn't make English a bad language.

me talk much gooder english tho!

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
We got a sick zebra a hat,
you ultimate tuna.

 

[Ignacio Machin \( .NET/ C# MVP \)]

H,


The only thing I do not understand why is still in place is that VB.net
demand than the entire sentence be written in one line, if you want to split
it in more than one you have to use the pesky _ at the end, I can't
understand why that has been dragged all along.

Also IMO they made weird selection for the new reserved words ( overridable,
mustinherit , etc ) instead of the set of them used in most other languages
( abstract , virtual, etc ) almost like if they wanted to looks diferent
from the rest of the languages.

In any other case it';s as valid as C# to code in.

 

[sdurity]

When you are ready to look at frameworks to aid in building database
applications, particularly of the Smart Client (WindowsForms) variety,
take a look at the DevForce framework (www.ideablade.com). There is a
free version for basic client-server with SQL Server. And the examples
come in VB and C#. (I am a DevForce user, not an employee.)

If it matters, I prefer C# as "cleaner." However, that is about as
helpful as saying that it is better to program wearing jeans instead of
dress pants. It is truly a matter of style and preference.

Sean

 

[Terry Burns]

I agree, the line endings are a pain. I did read somewhere that there is an
issue around interfaces on vb.net that does not exist on C# but I cant for
the life of me remember what it was.

 

[Terry Burns]

God I've missed these arguments

:-D

--
Terry Burns
http://TrainingOn.net

 

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

Also IMO they made weird selection for the new reserved words (
overridable, mustinherit , etc ) instead of the set of them used in most
other languages ( abstract , virtual, etc ) almost like if they wanted to
looks diferent from the rest of the languages.

I believe 'Overridable' is more meaningful than 'virtual' and 'MustInherit'
is more meaningful than 'abstract'. 'virtual' and 'abstract' are far too
generic and not self-explaining.

Just my two Euro cents...

 

[OpticTygre]

I agree about the underscore used in the line endings. That's always been a
pest. However, as far as the other comment of the reserved words, you must
remember that since the beginning, basic and visual basic has always strived
to be the "readable" language. MustInherit and Overrides is more
understandable when reading code than Abstract and Virtual (not to mention
Static, Void, and others...)

 

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

I agree about the underscore used in the line endings. That's always been a
pest. However, as far as the other comment of the reserved words, you must
remember that since the beginning, basic and visual basic has always strived
to be the "readable" language. MustInherit and Overrides is more
understandable when reading code than Abstract and Virtual (not to mention
Static, Void, and others...)

It's more understandable unless you're used to the "standard"
terminology of the rest of computer science, at which point using the
standard terminology is more understandable, IMO.

Personally I find "MustInherit" less easy to read than "abstract"
because the latter is a natural adjective whereas the former isn't.
Most of the modifiers in C# are adjectives, which makes sense to me -
they're adding information about the "noun" involved (the method,
class, whatever). The exception is "override" of course...

 

[Ignacio Machin \( .NET/ C# MVP \)]

Hi,

I agree about the underscore used in the line endings. That's always been
a pest. However, as far as the other comment of the reserved words, you
must remember that since the beginning, basic and visual basic has always
strived to be the "readable" language. MustInherit and Overrides is more
understandable when reading code than Abstract and Virtual (not to mention
Static, Void, and others...)

I beg to differ , all the books about OOP use abstract and virtual in fact
I think that VB.net is the only mainstream language that do not use that
words for the conpcets they represent.

FRankly I would love to hear somebody from the VB.net design team blog about
how they came to select those words .

Does anybody knows about how lambda expressions and the others 3.0 addition
will looks like in VB ?