Using Access Forms On the Web

[Winters]

I have never developed an Access DB for online use. I would like to develope
some Access Forms to collect information OnLine. I am told by my IT
department that ASP is required to get Forms working on line and we don't
use ASP. However our Training Department is telling me otherwise, saying
that ASP is NOT required to put forms designed in Access on to a web server.
Could someone please clarify this for me? I can easily create a form in
Access to collect user input. I want to put that form Online.
Thank you very much for any input.

 

[Tom van Stiphout]

IT is more right than Training.
You can't publish Access forms to the web. Access is a workgroup
solution that runs as a Windows application.
The closest you can get to Access forms on the web is if you publish
them to SharePoint. This is a new capability for Access 2010 which is
now in beta:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/2010/en/download-office-professional-plus/default.aspx
Again, this is not for the WWW, unless you have SharePoint on the web.

"ASP" is a dead technology; has been dead for 7 years. It is
superseded by ASP.NET which is very much alive, and a viable way to
create Web forms. Those forms could store their data in an Access db.
If you want to go this route, you may want to hire a competent ASP.NET
developer to create the forms for you. If you are only an Access
developer, the learning curve is VERY steep.

Don't even think of using DAP = Data Access Pages, which was never a
full-blown solution and is now mercifully killed off my MSFT.

-Tom.
Microsoft Access MVP

 

[Daniel Pineault]

MS access is simply not made to be used as a web database. You would be much
better off using other technologies. You can also see

http://www.devhut.net/index.php?lang=en&pid=0000000036

Search the subject on this very forum or google and you will find numerous
other post supporting to statement.

There are methods of working with access and the web, but it simply it not a
tool meant to do this and I wouldn't waste my time trying. Listen to your IT
department.
--
Hope this helps,

Daniel Pineault
http://www.cardaconsultants.com/
For Access Tips and Examples: http://www.devhut.net
Please rate this post using the vote buttons if it was helpful.

 

[Albert D. Kallal]

There are methods of working with access and the web, but it simply it not
a
tool meant to do this and I wouldn't waste my time trying. Listen to your
IT
department.

Keep in mind, this will change for access 2010, and access does have web
creating ability built in....

If you look at this video of mine, at the half way point, I switch to
running in a browser..it is very nice....

 

[Mike Painter]

Keep in mind, this will change for access 2010, and access does have
web creating ability built in....

If you look at this video of mine, at the half way point, I switch to
running in a browser..it is very nice....

The only "review" I've seen talks about Access allowing calculated fields.
Is this the same as data macros I can find info on?
Can it be done with code?

 

[Albert D. Kallal]

The only "review" I've seen talks about Access allowing calculated fields.
Is this the same as data macros I can find info on?
Can it be done with code?

Calculated fields are available for web based applications, and also for
100% (VBA) desktop only applications. This new feature is NOT related to
web, or desktop at all. And, the calculated fields are not related to data
macros either. It is simply a new "column" or field type we have.

A good use of calculated fields would be for example to create a FullName
field like:

Fullname: [FirstName] & " " & [LastName]

This above field is built at the table level. Once you create this column,
then every form, report, query can use that column just like a regular
field.

What is really neat here is down the road after you built 14 queries, 8
reports and 1/2 dozen reports all using that FullName field, you can change
the above ONE Fullname field to add the person middle initial, and
Everything in the application that uses full name field now will enjoy this
new updated expressions such as

Fullname: [FirstName] & " " & "[Middle] & " " & [LastName]

So this is just a new feature that allows you to centralize some of your
expressions into the table as opposed to queries and code and forms. in any
designer or query build that you use, you'll just see the additional full
name column up here in the table design mode. It looks just like another
field in the table...

In that web application video of mine, I think I did use one calculated
field for staff Full name, but it certainly was not a requirement..

So at the end of the day, that the handy new calculated column is neat new
feature. However, this feature as mentioned is not restricted to web based
applications, nor is it restricted to desktop based applications, and nor is
this feature really related or has anything to do with data macros.

I talk about data macros here in a post on stack overflow:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1159394/data-macros-in-access2010-triggers/1162969#1162969

Can it be done with code?

Hum, no, code is not related to calculated columns. However, to create a web
application, you have to use the macro coding language. (forms with VBA
don't publish to the web). The desktop Application can have a mixed of VBA
forms, and web based forums.

Here is a video from channel 9:
Access Web Databases and The Access Show
http://channel9.msdn.com/shows/Access/Microsoft-Access-2010-Demo/


The new table triggers we have for access 2010 work both desktop, and for
web based applications you build in access...

 

[Jenji]

Thanks for the comments guys!

Let me take a shot at explaining what I've done and what I need because I
was led to believe that Access could handle this. Obviously I may have been
misled J



I have designed a sort of scheduling database for a University's Faculty of
Education.

They teach students to become teachers. These student teachers have to,
during the course of their studies, be placed in a Practicum.

Essentially they are placed in a real live classroom once a week to get used
to dealing with students. It is part of their course studies. The student is
assigned a Mentor Teacher from the School that he will be doing the
Practicum at.

The Practicum Placements come from hundreds of Schools across our region.

Hence, the need for a Scheduling DB. I've already created that.



What I need are TWO Forms online.

One that collects info from the SCHOOLS and another that collects info from
the STUDENT.



The School info would be details about the Placement Offered.

i.e. Subject, Number of Said subject, Mentor teachers etc. Essentially the
School is telling us what they are willing to offer in terms of placements.

The Student Form will collect info related to their preferences.

i.e. Day of Week, Zone(what part of the city) StudentID, Subject etc.

And then staff correlates all this info to assign the Students to a school
with a specific Mentor.



I was under the impression that I could use Access to create these Forms or
Access Data Pages to collect this info online and feed it into my DB. I was
informed that ASP is what is needed to make the DAPs work. Apparently that
is not the case?!

So, where to now? Any advice?

My apologies for going into a detailed overview. I thought it might be
useful.

Thanks again for all the comments.



BTW: I've been developing in Access 2003 for years. Never touched 2007 yet.
How steep is the learning curve from 2003 to 2010 without 2007 inbetween?

 

[Mike Painter]

What I need are TWO Forms online.

One that collects info from the SCHOOLS and another that collects
info from the STUDENT.



The School info would be details about the Placement Offered.

i.e. Subject, Number of Said subject, Mentor teachers etc.
Essentially the School is telling us what they are willing to offer
in terms of placements.
The Student Form will collect info related to their preferences.

i.e. Day of Week, Zone(what part of the city) StudentID, Subject etc.

And then staff correlates all this info to assign the Students to a
school with a specific Mentor.



I was under the impression that I could use Access to create these
Forms or Access Data Pages to collect this info online and feed it
into my DB. I was informed that ASP is what is needed to make the
DAPs work. Apparently that is not the case?!

So, where to now? Any advice?

There are several packages out there that will build anything from forms to
full database apps and are low cost. Many have free editions that let you
examine the product in depth.
http://www.dbqwikedit.com/index.html is one of them.
A more simple approach is what coffeecup software offers.
http://www.coffeecup.com/form-builder/
Forms can be emailed to you and it is busywork to parse them and put them
into an Access table.
If coffecup works it would be a good interim product until 2010 is released.

BTW: I've been developing in Access 2003 for years. Never touched
2007 yet. How steep is the learning curve from 2003 to 2010 without
2007 inbetween?

Moving from 2003 to 2007 is not a great problem.
Getting used to the ribbon can be interesting. Once I got used to it I find
that I like it most of the time The "quick Access" tool bar can solve a lot
of that minor frustration.
Finding new features and deciding if to use them is not to hard for most
things.
Moving things about in a form after letting Access build it was a bit
frustrating.
Multi-valued fields are a valuable tool if you understand how they work.
(They are not really multivalued) Of course coming from a Pick background I
want more.
I built a quick database for a friend the other day and used the split form
and after playing with it a while see a lot of value in it.

 

[David W. Fenton]

I was under the impression that I could use Access to create these
Forms or Access Data Pages to collect this info online and feed it
into my DB. I was informed that ASP is what is needed to make the
DAPs work.

ADP = Access Data Project
A file format for creating a front end to SQL Server. Runs in
Access like an MDB front end, i.e., not a web solution.

DAP = Data Access Page
A type of Access object that theoretically runs in a web
browser. However, it only works in IE and when the Office Web
Components are installed (or whatever they are called). DAPs
have been dropped entirely from A2007 because they never worked
in any version (they were introduced in A2000). ASP and DAPs
have nothing to do with each other.

There is no way before A2010 to publish an Access *application* to
the web (and even in A2010 you're not publishing to the web, but to
a Sharepoint server which can be made accessible via the web). Your
Access data can be made available via an application hosted on a web
server, though I would say it's inadvisable, as Jet is not
well-suited as datastore for a website (unless it's mostly
read-only).

You aren't restricted to ASP/ASP.NET to create the application. You
could use PHP or Cold Fusion or you could even write the application
in Flash (though I wouldn't recommend that).

Building a web front end is very, very different from creating an
Access application. None of the skills in application building that
you've gained using Access transfer over because of the very
different UI paradigm that is required for a browser-based
application. Basic HTML forms are not very versatile so if you want
to provide any kind of rich interface, you're going to need to
enhance it with AJAX (likely using an AJAX library like jquery).

In short, this is not at all a simple task.

But it *is* something that MS is working to make much easier,
starting with A2010. However, the dependency on Sharepoint might
make it unacceptable in a situation like yours, since the Enterprise
version that would likely be required is quite expensive.

 

[Daniel Pineault]

I look forward to this improvement. It has been one of Access' major
drawbacks. If it is stable, this will finally put it back on par with
various alternatives database solutions.

Also, just as people are truly starting to use 2007, and in many case just
switching to 2007... It is going to be a hard sell to many of my clients in
the near future. But this aspect alone, will be enough to convince some.

Will only the developer need 2010 or will even the end-user require it to
use this new functionality? Will a run-time version be available which will
suffice?

Thank you for the good news.
--
Hope this helps,

Daniel Pineault
http://www.cardaconsultants.com/
For Access Tips and Examples: http://www.devhut.net
Please rate this post using the vote buttons if it was helpful.

 

[Albert D. Kallal]

I look forward to this improvement. It has been one of Access' major
drawbacks. If it is stable, this will finally put it back on par with
various alternatives database solutions.

Also, just as people are truly starting to use 2007, and in many case just
switching to 2007... It is going to be a hard sell to many of my clients
in
the near future. But this aspect alone, will be enough to convince some.

Will only the developer need 2010 or will even the end-user require it to
use this new functionality? Will a run-time version be available which
will
suffice?

For 100% web based? Nothing need be installed on the client side. I have
tested my web applications running on Linux and using a Firefox browser. So,
for consumption of published access applications, you can run that
application in a browser..the platform don't matter, there is no add-ins,
activeX, or silerlight. just a browser is needed.

If you asking about the new calculated column, or data triggers for desktop
applications? Sure, you be able to use the free runtime for 2010, and all
those features will work on desktops and for users that don't have copy of
the full version.

So, if I have your question correct, the new features are available in the
runtime, and are avaible for desktop only applications. And, just like for
2007, there will be a free 2010 runtime for access 2010...

 

[David W. Fenton]

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I look forward to this improvement. It has been one of Access'
major drawbacks. If it is stable, this will finally put it back
on par with various alternatives database solutions.

Er, what products, other than FileMaker Pro, has anything like the
features of Access but also includes web deployment? I can't think
of any.

 

[Mike Painter]

Will only the developer need 2010 or will even the end-user require
it to use this new functionality? Will a run-time version be
available which will suffice?

Since DOS 2.0 Microsoft has been making every effort to put the power of the
computer into the hands of the end user.
Every iteration of about 99% of their products has made this goal a bit
closer.
Loading an Access database to the web will be, if it is not now, as easy as
dragging a file across an FTP: connection that looks like just another set
of folders.
While it can be very complex even XML is one part of this progress.
Simple tools will allow users to make sweeping changes across all forms of
data.

GIRL's might have been right.

(That's one of those comment that should make the cognescenti smile
knowingly.
Dick Pick developed the Pick OS fro the Group Information Retrieval
Language.
Pick used multi-valued fields and *all* files were the same. Database,
spreadsheet, word processor, BASIC language programs, etc, were all the
same.)