USB question

[Rick Charnes]

I'm having some problems with two of my four USB 2.0 ports, added via a
new card six months ago (motherboard has two USB 1.1 ports). Whenever I
try to re-install the drivers, Windows tells me that "a function driver
was not specified for this device instance."

I've played around with drivers and .INF files and Device Manager long
enough to suspect that it's not going to get fixed this way. What do
folks think about the solution of unplugging the card and plunking it
down in another slot? Seems like Windows'll be forced to re-do
everything...

 

[paulmd]

Some questions first: did the card work fine when you first installed
it?

If so..

Unpluging and replugging is fairly safe. But not guarenteed. If it's a
failure of the slot it might work. PCI slots do on occasion die.

 

[Rick Charnes]

Some questions first: did the card work fine when you first installed
it?
Yup.

If so..

Unpluging and replugging is fairly safe. But not guarenteed. If it's a
failure of the slot it might work. PCI slots do on occasion die.

I'm assuming (hoping!?) that Windows got confused about drivers,
pointers, registry entries and who knows what else. Now two of the four
ports work and two others don't. Figured switching slots would force
Windows to reassess the whole situation...

 

[paulmd]

1 card, 4 ports, 2 of which are live, the other 2 dead (but once
worked)= failing usb card. Sorry, but it's pretty much an all or
nothing on windows confusion..
The good news is, after only 6 months, it might be under warrenty.
Check with manufacturer.

Windows will, of course reassess if you swich slots. But the
reassessment is likely to be the same. Its a safe, and cheap
expiriment, you might as well try and see what happens.

 

[Rick Charnes]

1 card, 4 ports, 2 of which are live, the other 2 dead (but once
worked)= failing usb card. Sorry, but it's pretty much an all or
nothing on windows confusion..
The good news is, after only 6 months, it might be under warrenty.
Check with manufacturer.

Windows will, of course reassess if you swich slots. But the
reassessment is likely to be the same. Its a safe, and cheap
expiriment, you might as well try and see what happens.

Thanks for this. I actually misspoke -- I don't have two bad physical
ports; I have two devices where no matter on which port I put them,
don't work. (But yeah -- they USED to!) Bad drivers, bad devices, bad
software?

 

[paulmd]

Thanks for this. I actually misspoke -- I don't have two >bad

physical ports; I have two devices where no matter on >which port I put
them, don't work. (But yeah -- they USED >to!) Bad drivers, bad
devices, bad software?

THAT is a very different issue. So, some questions:

1) what are the two devices (be as specific as you can)
2) do they have anything in common? Do they share a usb hub, or a
splitter?

3) Have you tried different cables? USB2 devices do need usb2 cables to
take advantage of the higher bitrates. It could be that some also
require a usb2 cable to function at all.

4) What about the power source? Do the devices power up at all? No
loose connections? Do you have a good surge protector capable of
powering all of the devices connected to your computer? Are all the
plugs on the protector operating?

 

[Rick C.]

physical ports; I have two devices where no matter on >which port I put
them, don't work. (But yeah -- they USED >to!) Bad drivers, bad
devices, bad software?

THAT is a very different issue. So, some questions:

1) what are the two devices (be as specific as you can)
2) do they have anything in common? Do they share a usb hub, or a
splitter?

Yep, they sure do have something in common: they're (1) my digital
camera, and (2) the card reader for my camera's memory card. I'm not
sure what a USB hub is. Anywhere I plug them on either my onboard USB
1.1 ports (two of 'em) or any of the ports of the added USB 2.0 card
(four of 'em) they don't work. Yet my cell phone data cable and my MP3
player both work plugged into the same USB 2.0 ports.

3) Have you tried different cables? USB2 devices do need usb2 cables to
take advantage of the higher bitrates. It could be that some also
require a usb2 cable to function at all.

No, I haven't, especially since both of them worked two weeks ago! (And
the camera's port is USB 1.1!)

4) What about the power source? Do the devices power up at all? No
loose connections? Do you have a good surge protector capable of
powering all of the devices connected to your computer? Are all the
plugs on the protector operating?

The cardreader lights up. The camera turns on (separate power source,
of course) but just doesn't communicate with the computer at all. I
tried jiggling the connections, and reseating 'em -- no luck. No, I
don't have a surge protector...

I have a feeling that it's some weird software thing, considering that
there's that little yellow exclamation point on the 'USB Device' in
Device Manager and whenever I try to reinstall it keeps telling me: "The
installation failed because a function driver was not specified for this
device instance."

Fun 'n' games with computers...

 

[paulmd]

a splitter?

Yep, they sure do have something in common: they're (1) my > digital

camera, and (2) the card reader for my camera's

memory card.

What brands?

I'm not sure what a USB hub is.

A usb hub is a way of getting more usb ports. Same consept as an
ethernet hub.

Anywhere I
plug them on either my onboard USB 1.1 ports (two of 'em) > or any

of the ports of the added USB 2.0 card

(four of 'em) they don't work. Yet my cell phone data
cable and my MP3 player both work plugged into the same
USB 2.0 ports.

So your usb ports are fine.
cables to take advantage of the higher bitrates. It > > could be that
some also require a usb2 cable to function

No, I haven't, especially since both of them worked two weeks ago!

(And the camera's port is USB 1.1!)

So, not the cabling.

The cardreader lights up. The camera turns on (separate power source,
of course) but just doesn't communicate with the computer at all. I
tried jiggling the connections, and reseating 'em -- no luck. No, I
don't have a surge protector...

Get one. Do. It won't fix this problem, but it will protect you from a
worse one. I hate to say this, but an electical surge might have
damaged your camera. (Note, quite a lot of current can travel by a usb
cable. ) And computer electronic devices are more sensitive than your
refrigerator, or airconditioner. And how was the weather in your area
two weeks ago?

Could it be that the memory card is damaged instead of the devices
using it? Also, have you tried either of these devices in another
computer? Does the camera work when not connected to your computer?
More than just turning on. Can you snap a picture with it? What happens
if you try to put a media in the cardreader? Does your camera have ITS
media inserted?

 

[w_tom]

Many people just know only because of rumors. For example
the classic myth that the refrigerator could have damaged the
camera. Let him first describe a complete circuit. To have
damage, first a complete electrical circuit must exist just
like taught in 2nd grade science class.

Just recently went through a similar USB camera failure.
Camera worked. USB hub worked. But camera would not talk to
USB hub (hub is the thing that provides multiple USB ports
from some computer connection).

Your building have static electricity? Static electric down
your hand, through camera, through USB chip inside that
camera, down USB cable, through computer, and into carpet. A
complete electric circuit and one that has been observed to
take out the USB interface chip inside camera.

Static electricity (to avoid failures that so many others
then blame on bad software, surges, or operator error) means
the building must maintain sufficient humidity. Humidity is a
most important protection for electronics. Then supplement
that protection with anti-static material. For example, an
anti-static mat where people stand to make (plug-in) a USB
connection can be helpful. Mat still is not as important as
proper humidity. But it will help.

Another promoted classic myth only because his entire
technical knowledge is based on reading "surge protector =
surge protection". It is called a protector. Therefore it
must be protection? Yes, all buildings require a protector.
But an effective protector connects to protection. His
recommendation does not - is completely bogus - and based more
upon his feeling than fact. A plug-in protector can even
contribute to damage of the adjacent computer.

The protector that makes a necessary connection to
protection is called a 'whole house' protector. Installed for
the destructive transient that occurs on average about once
every eight years. Quite effective and tens of times less
money per protected appliance.

A 'whole house' protector is for the 50+ electronic devices
within the building. Neither it nor the pathetic plug-in
protector will eliminate static electricity.

 

[paulmd]

Er.. I did NOT suggest that the refrigerator took out the camera. Only
that it is LESS vunerable to overload than the camera.

I confess that I have never heard of a whole house protector.

But I am NOT as ignorant as you seem to think. Do not EVER think you
know more than any other, especially one you haven't met. It's the
greatest form of stupidity. Not to mention it's rather crass.
Crassness is also stupid.

Consider, also that a good surge protector is, above all CHEAP.
Also note that a good protector is INSURED against equipment damage (if
you send in the warrenty card) Don't get one that isn't insured.

Plus the handy fact that it will keep all of your equipment on the same
circuit. Which is not a guarentee for the standard two plug outlet.

I'm a little leery of diagnosing static for a device like a camera.
It's possible, BUT.. it's a CAMERA, it didn't come in a static bag,
ordinary handling shouldn't zap it. It's SUPPOSED to be handled.
Frequently. Even out in the middle of nowhere. If, by chance ordinary
handling did zap it, you should return it to the manufactor for repair
or replacement.

Same goes for the cardreader. Though less strong.

I could see static if the failure was a stick of ram, or a pci card.

As a practical matter, it's a bit tricky to determine whether
something's been fried by a power surge or zapped by static. Takes more
time than the average repairman has... he'll spit out a diagnosis
according to his particular prejudices.

Unless you're gonna make a living assembling electronics at home, the
static mat, the wrist straps, humidifier, etc are overkill.

Good static protection can be had much more cheaply. Free, in fact. In
the form of behavior modification.

The basic idea is to always have the same charge as the object you're
handling.

First touch the surface the object is grounded to (or, at least seated
on). Then pick up the object with your other hand. THEN you can remove
the other have from the surface. Some electronics equipment is more
vunerable than others. RAM is VERY vunerable. What we don't know is how
sensitive your camera and cardreader are.

I'm curious to see what info you have on surge protectors contributing
to equipment failure.
Speaking only from personal expierience, more that once my computer has
been saved by the fact that it was plugged in to a protector.
(Lignthing once, nasty power failure the other. Two dead surge
protecors that bravely sacrificed themselves to save my computer )

 

[w_tom]

Never make assumptions from what you perceive to be a tone.
Those with blunt honest with technical facts don't post
politically correct. The only fact you know is that I never
insulted you and have defined plug-in protectors as
ineffective - especially for symptoms in the OPs failure.
Therefore the only assumption you have is that I am the best
friend you ever had. Why? I am blunt honest about facts.

However, you do demonstrate ignorance about what a plug-in
protector does. For example, a protector that fails was
providing no protection. Review datasheets from MOV
manufacturers (the component that make a protector work) to
understand: vaporization is neither a defined nor acceptable
mode of operation. A working surge protector is not damaged.
It remains functional after every surge. Your destroyed
protectors are classic examples of protectors so grossly
undersized as to abandon adjacent electronics during a surge.
Plug-in protectors were called ineffective protection.

Appreciate how protectors do work. They are not in series -
sitting between electronic and the transient. They are shunt
mode devices. Protector connects to AC electric just like it
was a light bulb. The surge hits both protector and
electronics simultaneously. Protection inside electronics
protected those transistors. A transient too small to damage
the appliance easily destroyed a grossly undersized protector.

The plug-in protector manufacturer does not even claim to
provide effective protection. Find his numerical specs that
say otherwise. You cannot. He claims protection from one type
of transient. He then so abbreviated those facts that you
might *assume* a protector is for ALL types of transients.

To increase sales, grossly undersize the protector. Make it
so pathetically small that the technically naive will say,
"the protector sacrificed itself to save my computer". These
people then recommend the grossly undersized protector, and
buy more at a grossly inflated price. Yes, grossly
overpriced. Again, we will even provide dollar numbers
(below) - which myth purveyors fear to do. They are not
selling effective protection. AND they are reaping tremendous
profits when you assume a damaged protector provides
protection. Unfortunately, you did just that. You posted
assumptions that a failed protector provided protection.

Now lets get some numbers. How big is that plug-in
protector? How many joules? Good thing all electronics have
internal protection. Protection so good that a trivial
transient could not damage transistors but easily destroyed
the grossly undersized protector.

A 'whole house' protector makes all this irrelevant at tens
of times less money per protected appliance (more numbers).
The 'whole house' protector is how protection was accomplished
in high reliability locations even before WWII. The
technology is that old and that well understood. Earthing
defines the protection. The plug-in protector contains none
of this.

A second point. Correct that cameras should be able to
protect themselves from static electricity. But I have seen
the problem too often. There is nothing extra ordinary about
a humidifier that has always been necessary for human health
and other reasons. Humidifier is necessary for electronics
protection. For example, if you disconnect a network
(ethernet) cable thereby static shocking the network card,
then damage can result as I have proven by intentionally doing
same. Proven by example AND by consulting IC component data
sheets. Protection inside that network card is overwhelms if
air is so dry as to created static charges that large.

In the meantime, the OP describes classic damage created by
static electricity. The circuit of how damage occurs was
described in a previous post so that you could challenge the
electronic concepts. You did not challenge the circuit.
Instead, you made unsubstantiated assumptions about what
electronics should do. Again, static electric damage is just
another reason why all buildings must have sufficient
humidity. Humidity has always been essential to electronic
protection especially where connections are make and broken.

Those were the electronic issues. Third, other issues such
as the silly warranty. If you think that surge protector
warranty will replace anything, then you failed to read the
fine print exemptions. They hype half truths so that you will
first assume, then buy their so profitable and ineffective
product.

Keeping all 'interconnected' electronics connected to the
same safety or equipment ground is an added layer of
transistor safety. That is why we pay $3 retail for a power
strip with its most important safety feature - the 15 amp
circuit breaker. Take this $3 power strip. Add some $0.10
components. Sell it for $15 or $50 as a plug-in surge
protector. Appreciate how high the markup is on those
ineffective plug-in protectors? They are that grossly
overpriced as well as ineffective and undersized.

It is quite easy to determine which has damaged electronics
- static or surge. Follow the circuit. Best evidence are
dead bodies (in this case ICs). In simple terms, which
ground does that transient seek? Surges and static
electricity each seek different grounds and therefore damage
using different paths.

But again, how does a camera get damaged? The circuit path
to the ground for static electricity was defined previously.
This is not the same path that a surge would take. USB
interface can be damaged even though camera does take and
display pictures. Same conditions by static charged human
caused damage when he attached the USB cable. Surge protector
would do nothing to avoid this failure. Just another example
of why all buildings containing electronics must contain
sufficient humidity.

In the meantime, learn about 'whole house' protectors and
what makes a protector function. Earth ground. What do the
ineffective plug-in protectors not discuss? Earth ground.
Why are they also so grossly undersized? They do not provide
effective protection. Intentionally undersize them and the
less informed will say "the protector sacrificed itself to
protect my ...".

Bottom line fact that a plug-in protector hopes you never
learn. No earth ground means no effective surge protection.
But earthing has nothing to do nor provide protection from
static electricity. Suggest you reread this post that is
chock full and only introduces new concepts - such as what
makes a surge protector functional.

 

[paulmd]

Alright already, you win this one.