USB Hard Drive Lunacy

[Box134]

Nothing like computers to give you a hard time... I got a bright idea to buy
a USB 2.0 hard drive enclosure, pop an IDE drive into it, and have a
portable HD for backup. I also got a USB 2.0 PCI card ( Sabrent ) with a
"dash board" or internal hub to upgrade my USB capabilities to 2.0.

I assembled the HD and enclosure. Since my ancient laptop was at hand, I
plugged in the new USB 2.0 HD into it through a PC Card USB 2.0 adapter. The
HD was immediately available and I partitioned and formatted the HD. I
backed up a bunch of stuff to the USB drive for demonstration purposes and
everything worked fine.

So far, so good. Now it was time to plug the drive into my desktop. What do
I get? "Power Surge on Hub Port. A USB device has exceeded the power limits
of the hub port. For assistance... blah, blah." Now keep in mind the USB HD
has it's own power source, so it draws a negligible amount of power for
signal, and nothing else.

Off to Google. Lots of problems, no real answers. A few useless MS KB
articles. From what I can tell, this type of error began after SP2. (My
desktop and laptop are fully updated SP2 boxes.)

Some things which don't work:

- Disabling the error message. The drive is not even acknowledged when I do
this.
- Get a powered hub. Read messages from people who bought a hub and it did
no good. Anyway, the drive is already self-powered.
- Get a bigger power supply. Come on, a 400 watt PS can't handle the signal
power of a self-powered USB drive?
- Update drivers. XP tells me there's nothing newer. Tried the crap from the
install disk, doesn't help. Doesn't help either that the install CD is a
POS.

I don't know how, but for a short time I could see the USB HD on my desktop.
After working for 30 minutes or so, the error re-appeared and that was it.

I can take the drive back to my laptop and it works fine. I've plugged it in
for a few hours and it keeps working flawlessly.

To sum up: The error message is obviously bogus. How can a self-powered
device suck too much juice from a desktop and not from a laptop? This are
some OS and USB shenanigans going on IMHO. Which is to blame? Both?

Oh, to add to the silliness; I get the USB power surge message when I plug
the drive in POWERED DOWN and when I unplug the drive. Hard to fathom why
any of those actions would use any power whatsoever. That's why I think the
messages are bogus.

Anyone have a fresh idea?

 

[Richard Urban]

I don't suppose that you have tried a know working external USB drive with
your computer. I would suggest one that is NOT cobbled together, but one
that is purchased from one of the major drive manufacturers.

Only until you report that the same problem exists will I believe that there
is not a mistake in the way you assembled the drive and case, or that
neither the drive nor the case have any electrical or physical problems.

--

Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Trax]

|>Nothing like computers to give you a hard time... I got a bright idea to buy
|>a USB 2.0 hard drive enclosure, pop an IDE drive into it, and have a
|>portable HD for backup. I also got a USB 2.0 PCI card ( Sabrent ) with a
|>"dash board" or internal hub to upgrade my USB capabilities to 2.0.

Open the device manager, and view your USB serial bus controller
entries, open the properties on the one that has Enhanced in it's
title.

In the Advanced area is shown the bandwidth that's being used; might
see if that error message is real or not.

|>I assembled the HD and enclosure. Since my ancient laptop was at hand, I
|>plugged in the new USB 2.0 HD into it through a PC Card USB 2.0 adapter. The
|>HD was immediately available and I partitioned and formatted the HD. I
|>backed up a bunch of stuff to the USB drive for demonstration purposes and
|>everything worked fine.
|>
|>So far, so good. Now it was time to plug the drive into my desktop. What do
|>I get? "Power Surge on Hub Port. A USB device has exceeded the power limits
|>of the hub port. For assistance... blah, blah." Now keep in mind the USB HD
|>has it's own power source, so it draws a negligible amount of power for
|>signal, and nothing else.
|>
|>Off to Google. Lots of problems, no real answers. A few useless MS KB
|>articles. From what I can tell, this type of error began after SP2. (My
|>desktop and laptop are fully updated SP2 boxes.)
|>
|>Some things which don't work:
|>
|>- Disabling the error message. The drive is not even acknowledged when I do
|>this.
|>- Get a powered hub. Read messages from people who bought a hub and it did
|>no good. Anyway, the drive is already self-powered.
|>- Get a bigger power supply. Come on, a 400 watt PS can't handle the signal
|>power of a self-powered USB drive?
|>- Update drivers. XP tells me there's nothing newer. Tried the crap from the
|>install disk, doesn't help. Doesn't help either that the install CD is a
|>POS.
|>
|>I don't know how, but for a short time I could see the USB HD on my desktop.
|>After working for 30 minutes or so, the error re-appeared and that was it.
|>
|>I can take the drive back to my laptop and it works fine. I've plugged it in
|>for a few hours and it keeps working flawlessly.
|>
|>To sum up: The error message is obviously bogus. How can a self-powered
|>device suck too much juice from a desktop and not from a laptop? This are
|>some OS and USB shenanigans going on IMHO. Which is to blame? Both?
|>
|>Oh, to add to the silliness; I get the USB power surge message when I plug
|>the drive in POWERED DOWN and when I unplug the drive. Hard to fathom why
|>any of those actions would use any power whatsoever. That's why I think the
|>messages are bogus.
|>
|>Anyone have a fresh idea?
|>

 

[Edward W. Thompson]

I don't suppose that you have tried a know working external USB drive with
your computer. I would suggest one that is NOT cobbled together, but one
that is purchased from one of the major drive manufacturers.

Only until you report that the same problem exists will I believe that
there is not a mistake in the way you assembled the drive and case, or
that neither the drive nor the case have any electrical or physical
problems.

--

Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

Plugging a HDD into an enclosure is 'cobbled together' get real. The OP
already told you the drive works without problems when used in his laptop,
doesn't that indicate the drive is healthy or are you suggesting there is a
fault with the laptop? If this is the best you can do in diagnosing a
problem, I suggest you keep quiet.

What I didn't get from the post, have you tried plugging the drive directly
into the desktop? I assume you have done, but my reading of your post seems
to indicate only problems when using with a hub. Assuming you are plugging
directly into the machine (PCI card as I understand it), I would think the
device being suspect is the Sabrent PCI Card. Can you exchange it for
another and retry?

 

[Box134]

As I said in my post the drive works (perfectly) with my laptop. Doesn't
make a strong case for a mistake in assembling the drive. It's a WD drive,
same type as I have in my desktop case.

I have "cobbled" together hard drives into my ATX cases for years. Putting
one into a portable case is easier.

 

[Box134]

Interesting.... it's a Standard Enhanced controller. Seems contradictory.
Bandwidth used is 10%. Is that significant?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Trax" <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 10:52 PM
Subject: Re: USB Hard Drive Lunacy

Open the device manager, and view your USB serial bus controller
entries, open the properties on the one that has Enhanced in it's
title.

In the Advanced area is shown the bandwidth that's being used; might
see if that error message is real or not.

..

 

[Box134]

I'm afraid you're right. I partioned and formatted the HD while plugged into
my laptop, so the drive seems healthy to me.

Plugging a HDD into an enclosure is 'cobbled together' get real. The OP
already told you the drive works without problems when used in his laptop,
doesn't that indicate the drive is healthy or are you suggesting there is
a fault with the laptop? If this is the best you can do in diagnosing a
problem, I suggest you keep quiet.

The product has the PCI card with three USB ports in the back, and the
dashboard, which I assume is actually an internal hub which has another
three USB ports. I first plugged the drive into the dashboard/hub ports, and
when that didn't work I plugged it into the PCI card's ports. Same results.

Yes, I would believe the problem is in the PCI card or the hub. I got the
wretched thing through an on-line store so exchanging it isn't easy. I will
go through the maufacturer's support e-mail and see if that helps.

I also have a wild-assed idea I'm going to try. The set came with two
internal cables, one I assumed was for USB and the other for Firewire. Since
I didn't have any firewire devices I left one cable off. Maybe it has to be
there regardless. Easy to try, nothing to lose!

 

[Trax]

|>Interesting.... it's a Standard Enhanced controller. Seems contradictory.
|>Bandwidth used is 10%. Is that significant?

If you have a lot of USB controllers find the one supplying the HD if
it's no more than 10% it shouldn't be a cause for an error.

I have one reading of 23%

Also check the power reading on the USB Root Hub (properties) that
your HD is on.
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/usb3.htm says max USB can supply up
to 500 milliamps.

|>----- Original Message -----
|>From: "Trax" <[email protected]>
|>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
|>Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 10:52 PM
|>Subject: Re: USB Hard Drive Lunacy
|>
|>
|>>
|>> Open the device manager, and view your USB serial bus controller
|>> entries, open the properties on the one that has Enhanced in it's
|>> title.
|>>
|>> In the Advanced area is shown the bandwidth that's being used; might
|>> see if that error message is real or not.
|>.
|>

 

[Richard Urban]

Just because your external drive works on one computer and not on another
does not necessarily means that there is not something wrong with the
drive/case combination. In moving the drive about, wire positions are
changed or an internal plug can fall off.

Then you have $5.00 external cases purchased at computer shows or a quality
case, such as the one made by Adaptec that costs about $50.00.

Seeing as how you get a power surge indication even when the case is
"powered down" tells me to check the USB cable/ports for shorts, OR
substitute the cable with a known good cable. And just because the cable was
"just" removed from its blister pack does not mean that it is necessarily
good. I have returned many bad cables.

I can not even begin to tell you how many times people come to me with their
home brew cases and drives and I find bad external power supplies (low
voltage or no voltage or set for European voltages), jumper problems, cable
problems, pinched internal wires, plugs not seated correctly or etc.

The first thing I do when someone brings me one of these drives (along with
their computer) is this. I take one of the 4 Seagate external hard drives I
use in my shop (with a known good USB cable) and plug it into their
computer. The drive is "typically" recognized - and usable. Then I know
where to look for the problem, and it isn't in the operating system.

Being in the repair business, I don't like to waste time chasing ghosts. I
have to know within 5-10 minutes where to look for the source of the
problem. If I don't, I am not being fair to the customer. An aside: I have
found two CPU's in the past 5 years that work on one M/B but not on another.
If I didn't substitute I would never have known.

People don't like to be told, or admit to the fact, that they messed up such
a seemingly simple task as putting a drive in a metal box. Hey, it happens!
There is not one computer repair technician who has not built a computer,
only to find that it initially does not work. Open the case again and they
find that they forgot to plug in a major device, or they have a set of pins
on the M/B jumpered incorrectly. If you repair computers for a living, and
this has NOT happened to you - please raise your hand. You are exceptional.

Handle the problem as you wish, but in this case, substitution is the best
test. If a pre-packaged manufacturers drives works (Maxtor, W.D., Seagate
etc.), you did something wrong! If the pre-packaged drive doesn't work, then
I would spend the necessary time trouble shooting the operating system. A 5
minute test would tell me what I need to know to progress with a repair.

--

Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Kerry Brown]

I second this. I have seen many external USB drives that work on some
computers and not others. There are some very funky USB enclosures out
there. Some old stock does not like SP2 and nothing will fix them short of a
firmware upgrade. Some others just don't seem to work with some USB
chipsets.

Kerry

 

[Box134]

I can't really get a power reading for the HD because it's never recognized.
The only thing with a reading is my scanner and that is 2 mA. In case I
haven't mentioned it, my trackball and camera connect fine on the internal
hub/dashboard. It seems this USB card craps when it sees mass storage, even
when the mass storage device is powered down.

Well, I'm contacting Sabrent's e-mail support and if they can't come up with
something, the vendor has a 30-day return policy for a credit note. I'll
just use that to buy another USB interface card. Sabrent is definitely
low-rent, their name isn't on anything. TigerDirect sure has a lot of their
offerings.

 

[Box134]

The problem is solved because I took the HD and put it into my desktop case
and that was that. Life is too short. The USB cable is unique and I don't
have another USB drive for comparison purposes.

The case I used was a Vantec Nexstar USB 2.0 selling for $30 US, somewhere
in the middle of the pack I should think.

After the dust cleared I took a very close look at the enclosure for
possible clues. First thing I noticed was the soldering. It looked like most
of the components were "wave" soldered ( I think that's the term ) because
they had a conical solder mass around the leads. Then other leads didn't
have that formation, possibly because they soldered on other components
later, possibly by hand. Not an encouraging QA situation.

Next I scrutinized the data ribbon cable and found two snake-bite marks in
which I could glimpse copper. I looked for the source of the bites and it
was obvious they came from the keying notches on the card end of the ribbon
connector. It's highly probable stowing the cable into it's tiny recess
pressed it against the keying notches, thus creating indentations. One can
hardly do otherwise since you have a 1/8" space to stuff the cable. To make
matters worse, there's no need for the keying notches since they serve no
useful purpose in the application. It's just piss-poor design. I'd rather
have a case 1/4" longer with room for the essentials.

Now whether this caused my difficulties I do not know. What I have left is
two components, an enclosure ( probably useless) and a USB 2.0 card and
internal hub ( maybe good) and no way of separating the bad from the good.
In my present state of mind I favor pitching it all in the trash, although I
may send the enclosure back on RMA. At least I do know the USB 2.0 stuff
worked with my scanner, camera, and trackball.

Anyway, this has dampened my ardor for portable storage. I suppose the
demand for it is so high they cobble together all kinds of crap.

Thanks to everyone who responded.

 

[Richard Urban]

Glad you found a solution - kind of!

--

Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!