USB complains about not being high speed.


M

Metspitzer

I have an ipod that I reformat and reset to factory. (Because I was
getting a message that the hard drive was corrupted and I needed to
format it) It still doesn't seem to be working. It gives a message
that I should use Itunes to fix it.

When I first plugged the (reformatted) Ipod into the machine I got a
message from the device manager that I was trying to use a high speed
port. I am pretty sure the mobo I have does have all USB 2 ports. At
the time, I also had a PCI USB card installed that was supposed to
also have two USB 2 ports. I have unplugged the card to try to narrow
down the problem.

Anyway, when the computer complained about not being plugged into a
high speed port, it gave me a list of USB ports I should select. Since
I have no idea what USB port was what I just closed that screen.

After taking out the USB expansion card, I rebooted the machine with
the Ipod plugged in. The computer booted fine, but when I tried to
load Itunes, nothing happened. I tried to load it again and nothing
happened. I unplugged the Ipod and Itunes loaded.

I am thinking that I should just delete the USB drivers from the
device manager and let XP just reload the one it needs without the
extra USB card. Yes? No? What is next?
 
Ad

Advertisements

P

Paul

Metspitzer said:
I have an ipod that I reformat and reset to factory. (Because I was
getting a message that the hard drive was corrupted and I needed to
format it) It still doesn't seem to be working. It gives a message
that I should use Itunes to fix it.

When I first plugged the (reformatted) Ipod into the machine I got a
message from the device manager that I was trying to use a high speed
port. I am pretty sure the mobo I have does have all USB 2 ports. At
the time, I also had a PCI USB card installed that was supposed to
also have two USB 2 ports. I have unplugged the card to try to narrow
down the problem.

Anyway, when the computer complained about not being plugged into a
high speed port, it gave me a list of USB ports I should select. Since
I have no idea what USB port was what I just closed that screen.

After taking out the USB expansion card, I rebooted the machine with
the Ipod plugged in. The computer booted fine, but when I tried to
load Itunes, nothing happened. I tried to load it again and nothing
happened. I unplugged the Ipod and Itunes loaded.

I am thinking that I should just delete the USB drivers from the
device manager and let XP just reload the one it needs without the
extra USB card. Yes? No? What is next?

Have you tested with a regular USB2 peripheral ?

I can check here, with a USB2 flash key. I can insert that
and do a HDTune read benchmark. If the rate is greater than
about 1 MB/sec, then it pretty well has to be running
USB2 mode. Like, I have a crappy flash key that does 4MB/sec
and a good flash key that does 35MB/sec over USB2, and in both
cases, those numbers are better than the practical transfer
rate of 1 MB/sec you get from USB 1.1 .

My guess would be, it's something to do with the iPod (or the cable).
But perhaps you should be searching iPod symptoms, to see what
happens to an SOC when it fails. (SOC being System On A Chip
that mobile devices tend to use now.) I would not be so quick
to blame the computer, when the iPod is already telling you
it is not happy.

The purpose of testing with a regular USB2 peripheral, is
so we can pin the blame on the computer. If the computer passes
the test, and does a fast transfer, then the iPod isn't
looking so good.

Transfer speed, as far as I know, is not recorded in the registry.
It is negotiated each time a device is plugged in. Some devices
can work with either negotiated 1.1 or 2.0 mode. A few, the
tech docs claim the devices only work in USB2 mode. Which I
find far fetched, as I always thought a USB2 peripheral
had to support both modes.

Paul
 
M

Metspitzer

Have you tested with a regular USB2 peripheral ?

I can check here, with a USB2 flash key. I can insert that
and do a HDTune read benchmark. If the rate is greater than
about 1 MB/sec, then it pretty well has to be running
USB2 mode. Like, I have a crappy flash key that does 4MB/sec
and a good flash key that does 35MB/sec over USB2, and in both
cases, those numbers are better than the practical transfer
rate of 1 MB/sec you get from USB 1.1 .

My guess would be, it's something to do with the iPod (or the cable).
But perhaps you should be searching iPod symptoms, to see what
happens to an SOC when it fails. (SOC being System On A Chip
that mobile devices tend to use now.) I would not be so quick
to blame the computer, when the iPod is already telling you
it is not happy.

The purpose of testing with a regular USB2 peripheral, is
so we can pin the blame on the computer. If the computer passes
the test, and does a fast transfer, then the iPod isn't
looking so good.

Transfer speed, as far as I know, is not recorded in the registry.
It is negotiated each time a device is plugged in. Some devices
can work with either negotiated 1.1 or 2.0 mode. A few, the
tech docs claim the devices only work in USB2 mode. Which I
find far fetched, as I always thought a USB2 peripheral
had to support both modes.

Paul

I will give it a check next time I am in the mood to try to mess with
it.

Thanks
 
M

Metspitzer

I have an ipod that I reformat and reset to factory. (Because I was
getting a message that the hard drive was corrupted and I needed to
format it) It still doesn't seem to be working. It gives a message
that I should use Itunes to fix it.

When I first plugged the (reformatted) Ipod into the machine I got a
message from the device manager that I was trying to use a high speed
port. I am pretty sure the mobo I have does have all USB 2 ports. At
the time, I also had a PCI USB card installed that was supposed to
also have two USB 2 ports. I have unplugged the card to try to narrow
down the problem.

Anyway, when the computer complained about not being plugged into a
high speed port, it gave me a list of USB ports I should select. Since
I have no idea what USB port was what I just closed that screen.

After taking out the USB expansion card, I rebooted the machine with
the Ipod plugged in. The computer booted fine, but when I tried to
load Itunes, nothing happened. I tried to load it again and nothing
happened. I unplugged the Ipod and Itunes loaded.

I am thinking that I should just delete the USB drivers from the
device manager and let XP just reload the one it needs without the
extra USB card. Yes? No? What is next?

http://imgur.com/NT93Ryc

I forgot I took a screenshot of this. When you get a message like
this or when you see the USB list in the device manager, just how are
you supposed to know what port any of them are?
 
M

Metspitzer

I have an ipod that I reformat and reset to factory. (Because I was
getting a message that the hard drive was corrupted and I needed to
format it) It still doesn't seem to be working. It gives a message
that I should use Itunes to fix it.

When I first plugged the (reformatted) Ipod into the machine I got a
message from the device manager that I was trying to use a high speed
port. I am pretty sure the mobo I have does have all USB 2 ports. At
the time, I also had a PCI USB card installed that was supposed to
also have two USB 2 ports. I have unplugged the card to try to narrow
down the problem.

Anyway, when the computer complained about not being plugged into a
high speed port, it gave me a list of USB ports I should select. Since
I have no idea what USB port was what I just closed that screen.

After taking out the USB expansion card, I rebooted the machine with
the Ipod plugged in. The computer booted fine, but when I tried to
load Itunes, nothing happened. I tried to load it again and nothing
happened. I unplugged the Ipod and Itunes loaded.

I am thinking that I should just delete the USB drivers from the
device manager and let XP just reload the one it needs without the
extra USB card. Yes? No? What is next?

I just looked at the mobo manual and I have 3 pairs of USB ports. Each
has the exact same label. It says these two USB devices are for USB 2
devices.

One USB pair is colored red, but I am assuming that the red color
doesn't have anything to do with the speed. I do know that blue would
be USB 3, but I also know that this machine doesn't have those.

I also know the cable for my Ipod is not USB 3 either, so I am still
unsure why I got the "high speed" complaint from the device driver.
 
P

Paul

Metspitzer said:
http://imgur.com/NT93Ryc

I forgot I took a screenshot of this. When you get a message like
this or when you see the USB list in the device manager, just how are
you supposed to know what port any of them are?

It says "Apple iPod USB Driver", when it should be
referring to a hardware device. That's perhaps
a hint as to what is going on. Would some Apple software have
installed a filter driver ? If it was a simple hardware dialog,
I would have expected the string to be just "Apple iPod".

I still don't know what motherboard make and model (if home built)
or what computer make and model number this is (if pre-built Dell/HP).
You wouldn't be using a USB2 card in it, unless you ran out of ports
or some of your ports were damaged.

*******

In this example, you can see the name of the hardware is
just copied from the Device Manager string ("USB Composite Device").

http://www.laptop-junction.com/toas...ws-Message-This-device-can-perform-faster.jpg

You would go to Device Manager (Start : Run : devmgmt.msc),
then navigate to the USB section. Find the Apple iPod USB Driver
entry, look at the driver files. If the driver files are
Apple ones, then Apple is messing around. For simple things
like USB storage devices, there would normally be standard
"USB class" drivers owned by Microsoft in there. Custom
drivers are used for things which don't fall into a standard
class (a lot of modern hardware uses standards - only custom
designed obscure hardware needs special drivers).

It could be, that the Apple software is the problem. But
what happens is, if you uninstall the Apple software,
it won't clean out the Registry. There is probably
a registry entry in there of some sort, which is
screwed up. And since the search engines were un-helpful in
finding an actual technical analysis of the Apple problem,
I can't even guess as to what registry setting that might be.

As I think I explained already, normally speed is negotiated
on the spot, when the device is plugged in. It should not
be recorded in the registry as such. It's supposed to be
purely a hardware function. That dialog box on your screen,
detects a mismatch between the USB config information that
shows current speed and also shows device capability. So
the software is merely an observer, noting the port-device
pair is not running as fast as it could.

Since the ports in your dialog say "Standard Enhanced",
the "Enhanced" means they're EHCI, so there is an EHCI
driver present. Now, the question would be, where is the
iPod plugged into ? Are you using a "keyboard only" port ?
In some chipset documentation, I've seen references to a
port which is USB 1.1 only, but I've never seen references
to that port being used (since there are typically
a dozen other USB2 ports they can use instead). So if there
is actually a port on a chipset, which is suited to keyboards,
I just don't see manufacturers using it.

There are procedures for clearing out the USB stack, and
re-detecting all the hardware. That's what cleans out
the registry.

The manual way... It says to do it in Safe Mode.

http://www.usbman.com/Guides/Cleanup Device Manager Safe Mode.htm

Using devcon (a Microsoft utility), from a script.

http://www.robvanderwoude.com/devcon.php

Look for the link labeled "RenewUSB.bat". It downloads as a
text file, because the author of the script wants you to look
at it with Notepad or Wordpad first, to see how it works. When
you're satisfied it isn't malware, you change the file extension
on the end to ".bat", so then it will be ready to run. The script
downloads devcon from Microsoft, and the script calls devcon
to perform the action of removing devices from Device Manager.

What that script does, is try to find things with USB in the
name, and remove them from Device Manager. Then, the OS
will "rediscover" the hardware, and reinstall standard
class drivers etc. In the case of the Apple device, when you
plug it in after that procedure is finished, the driver should
install itself for that device on that port.

Since I could not see a successful resolution to your problem
in Google, I can't really be sure what's broken. Is it an iPod
hardware failure (in an odd state) ? Is the custom Apple
filter driver borked ? Or, is it simply as described in the
dialog, that you're plugged into the wrong port ? I can't
tell here, from this distance...

Paul
 
Ad

Advertisements

M

Metspitzer

It says "Apple iPod USB Driver", when it should be
referring to a hardware device. That's perhaps
a hint as to what is going on. Would some Apple software have
installed a filter driver ? If it was a simple hardware dialog,
I would have expected the string to be just "Apple iPod".

I still don't know what motherboard make and model (if home built)
or what computer make and model number this is (if pre-built Dell/HP).
You wouldn't be using a USB2 card in it, unless you ran out of ports
or some of your ports were damaged.
My mobo is:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131406
The only reason I had added an extra card was that my computer sits
beside my desk in a corner. I have to reach over behind the desk to
plug in a USB device. (It is a very old, very heavy and very large
case) I can find the port in the expansion slot better than I can find
the ones on the mobo. The expansion card has been removed
permanently.
*******

In this example, you can see the name of the hardware is
just copied from the Device Manager string ("USB Composite Device").

http://www.laptop-junction.com/toas...ws-Message-This-device-can-perform-faster.jpg

You would go to Device Manager (Start : Run : devmgmt.msc),
then navigate to the USB section. Find the Apple iPod USB Driver
entry, look at the driver files. If the driver files are
Apple ones, then Apple is messing around. For simple things
like USB storage devices, there would normally be standard
"USB class" drivers owned by Microsoft in there. Custom
drivers are used for things which don't fall into a standard
class (a lot of modern hardware uses standards - only custom
designed obscure hardware needs special drivers).
This is what I see. Nothing about Apple.
http://imgur.com/ETbXR1g

It could be, that the Apple software is the problem. But
what happens is, if you uninstall the Apple software,
it won't clean out the Registry. There is probably
a registry entry in there of some sort, which is
screwed up. And since the search engines were un-helpful in
finding an actual technical analysis of the Apple problem,
I can't even guess as to what registry setting that might be.

As I think I explained already, normally speed is negotiated
on the spot, when the device is plugged in. It should not
be recorded in the registry as such. It's supposed to be
purely a hardware function. That dialog box on your screen,
detects a mismatch between the USB config information that
shows current speed and also shows device capability. So
the software is merely an observer, noting the port-device
pair is not running as fast as it could.

Since the ports in your dialog say "Standard Enhanced",
the "Enhanced" means they're EHCI, so there is an EHCI
driver present. Now, the question would be, where is the
iPod plugged into ? Are you using a "keyboard only" port ?
The Ipod was plugged into one of the top USB pair. This would be the
most common place to plug keyboard or mouse.

The machine doesn't have a keyboard or mouse connected. I use
Teamviewer.

The only USB device currently connected is the printer. My case does
not have front USB
In some chipset documentation, I've seen references to a
port which is USB 1.1 only, but I've never seen references
to that port being used (since there are typically
a dozen other USB2 ports they can use instead). So if there
is actually a port on a chipset, which is suited to keyboards,
I just don't see manufacturers using it.

There are procedures for clearing out the USB stack, and
re-detecting all the hardware. That's what cleans out
the registry.

The manual way... It says to do it in Safe Mode.

http://www.usbman.com/Guides/Cleanup Device Manager Safe Mode.htm

Using devcon (a Microsoft utility), from a script.

http://www.robvanderwoude.com/devcon.php

Look for the link labeled "RenewUSB.bat". It downloads as a
text file, because the author of the script wants you to look
at it with Notepad or Wordpad first, to see how it works. When
you're satisfied it isn't malware, you change the file extension
on the end to ".bat", so then it will be ready to run. The script
downloads devcon from Microsoft, and the script calls devcon
to perform the action of removing devices from Device Manager.

What that script does, is try to find things with USB in the
name, and remove them from Device Manager. Then, the OS
will "rediscover" the hardware, and reinstall standard
class drivers etc. In the case of the Apple device, when you
plug it in after that procedure is finished, the driver should
install itself for that device on that port.

Since I could not see a successful resolution to your problem
in Google, I can't really be sure what's broken. Is it an iPod
hardware failure (in an odd state) ? Is the custom Apple
filter driver borked ? Or, is it simply as described in the
dialog, that you're plugged into the wrong port ? I can't
tell here, from this distance...

Paul

Since I really don't like to mess with 3rd party stuff, I am going to
try to plug the Ipod into a Win7 laptop later. If it fails to
recognize the Ipod, I will make a trip to the Apple store to fix it
next visit to Atlanta.

Thanks Paul
 
P

Paul

Metspitzer said:
This is what I see. Nothing about Apple.
http://imgur.com/ETbXR1g

OK, take a look through *all* the Device Manager
entries.

Maybe the iPod is considered a storage device ?
I would have thought the iTunes and rules on
copying stuff, would prevent direct access. But
that's the only thing I can think of, in terms
of what an iPod might behave like.

If you had a Zune player (i.e. Microsoft product),
it would likely use MTP protocol. And then, they
can enforce DRM (prevent copying or whatever), at
the device level. MTP uses a driver that is
delivered as part of Windows Media Player (a
pretty obscure way to deliver a driver).

I presume the iPod has some notion of that too. I
don't recollect it being MTP though. So that
leaves USB mass storage as an interface. And perhaps
any Apple driver installed, is there to enforce
any DRM rules they might want.

That "Apple iPod USB Driver" text string, has
got to be in Device Manager somewhere...

http://imgur.com/NT93Ryc

Paul
 
D

dadiOH

Paul said:
OK, take a look through *all* the Device Manager
entries.

Maybe the iPod is considered a storage device ?
I would have thought the iTunes and rules on
copying stuff, would prevent direct access. But
that's the only thing I can think of, in terms
of what an iPod might behave like.

If you had a Zune player (i.e. Microsoft product),
it would likely use MTP protocol. And then, they
can enforce DRM (prevent copying or whatever), at
the device level. MTP uses a driver that is
delivered as part of Windows Media Player (a
pretty obscure way to deliver a driver).

I presume the iPod has some notion of that too. I
don't recollect it being MTP though. So that
leaves USB mass storage as an interface. And perhaps
any Apple driver installed, is there to enforce
any DRM rules they might want.

That "Apple iPod USB Driver" text string, has
got to be in Device Manager somewhere...

http://imgur.com/NT93Ryc

Paul

This is an area where I have no experience but my wife bought a Nexus a few
days ago and I recall reading somewhere that when hooked to a computer it
was seen as a player. I'm wondering if the yellow problem in his screen
shot for the HD audio might be his Ipod?

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
 
P

Paul

dadiOH said:
This is an area where I have no experience but my wife bought a Nexus a few
days ago and I recall reading somewhere that when hooked to a computer it
was seen as a player. I'm wondering if the yellow problem in his screen
shot for the HD audio might be his Ipod?

But it mentions HDAudio bus. Usually that corresponds to
motherboard sound. If there was a sound device on USB, it
would mention USB instead.

I still think that text string, is in Device Manager
somewhere. I've been trying to avoid bringing out
the heavy guns, like using a devcon query to dump the
entire Device Manager as text.

I like the weirdness, of so far, nothing in the pictures
really aligning with the symptoms :)

Paul
 
M

Metspitzer

But it mentions HDAudio bus. Usually that corresponds to
motherboard sound. If there was a sound device on USB, it
would mention USB instead.

I still think that text string, is in Device Manager
somewhere. I've been trying to avoid bringing out
the heavy guns, like using a devcon query to dump the
entire Device Manager as text.

I like the weirdness, of so far, nothing in the pictures
really aligning with the symptoms :)

Paul
I tried the Ipod on a Win7 machine. Itunes doesn't recognize the Ipod
on that machine either. I think this is a job for the Apple store.
 
Ad

Advertisements

P

Paul

Metspitzer said:
I tried the Ipod on a Win7 machine. Itunes doesn't recognize the Ipod
on that machine either. I think this is a job for the Apple store.

You have the "USB Composite Device".

It could be that is the iPod.

In Device Manager, do Properties : Details, and look for
"HardwareIDs".

USB uses VID/PID while PCI uses VEN/DEV. Since this is USB,
we use this list. We'd be looking for the hardwareID numbers
in here, to see if the device is working properly. The device
wouldn't be detected in Device Manager properly, if the ID
had changed (for hardware failure reasons).

http://www.linux-usb.org/usb.ids

05ac Apple, Inc.
1225 iPod Nano 4.Gen (DFU mode)

So in that example, VID=05ac (Apple) and PID=1225.

Lots of USB devices, have non-fixed IDs. When USB devices
first came out, the IDs tended to be fixed. But now,
that 1225 number is stored in a flash chip somewhere.

When a modern device becomes defective, the VID and PID
might change on it. That's what happened to a hard drive
enclosure here, when the Cypress chip inside "forgot"
its ID. It could be re-programmed, with the same kind
of program they used at the factory. So I was able
to restore the config info.

Cheesy webcams are like that too. One controller/sensor combination
can have about 20 different IDs. All because the hardware supports
programming the value. They claim it makes it possible to assign
different company names to the products, but I think it's a farce.
If the devices are identical from a hardware perspective, they
should be assigned the same number. And making them less
programmable, would lead to fewer "oopsy" mishaps, like
my Cypress chip forgetting who it is. If the ID is "set in cement",
you can't lose it :)

Paul
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Similar Threads

USB devices not detected 8
ipod & usb 7
USB Flash (pen) Question 8
Ipod touch won't sync 6
USB Device Not Recognized 7
USB Port 1
Can't recognize PS/2 and USB at same time 10
USB problems with SP3 9

Top