Upgrading a 3 year old PC

[Hachiroku]

Well, I don't want to buy an entirely new system, but I want to can my
SOYO ULTRA 400 MoBo. I am running Kingston HyperX PC3500 and can't install
more than 512.

I just added a Diamond Radeon 9550 AGP 8x Card, I have another 256M of
Crucial PC3200 RAM that when I install forces the bus back to 166,

The CPU is an AMD Athlon Thoroughbred clocked to 1996 MHZ, FSB running 217
to bump the RAM to 433. It's getting a little tired, time for an upgrade?

I am looking, after 9 years, of switching back to Intel. I will probably
use a Smithfield core, probably with a 400MHz FSB to take advantage of the
parts I already have. Either a D805 (this is a 533 FSB but can be clocked
over 3.2GHz no problem) or an 820 Pressler, 800MHz FSB Dual Core.

The MoBo is looking like an Asus P5P800 that will take advantage of my RAM
and my Video card.

Considering the pieces I already have, and that I am more intersted in
Video, Audio and Photo apps over gaming, I really want something that will
process the audio/video as well as possible. The MoBo will also handle the
900 series CPUs no problem.

This is what I am thinking, total cost ~$229.00

Any suggestions?

 

[ElJerid]

Well, I don't want to buy an entirely new system, but I want to can my
SOYO ULTRA 400 MoBo. I am running Kingston HyperX PC3500 and can't install
more than 512.

I just added a Diamond Radeon 9550 AGP 8x Card, I have another 256M of
Crucial PC3200 RAM that when I install forces the bus back to 166,

The CPU is an AMD Athlon Thoroughbred clocked to 1996 MHZ, FSB running 217
to bump the RAM to 433. It's getting a little tired, time for an upgrade?

I am looking, after 9 years, of switching back to Intel. I will probably
use a Smithfield core, probably with a 400MHz FSB to take advantage of the
parts I already have. Either a D805 (this is a 533 FSB but can be clocked
over 3.2GHz no problem) or an 820 Pressler, 800MHz FSB Dual Core.

The MoBo is looking like an Asus P5P800 that will take advantage of my RAM
and my Video card.

Considering the pieces I already have, and that I am more intersted in
Video, Audio and Photo apps over gaming, I really want something that will
process the audio/video as well as possible. The MoBo will also handle the
900 series CPUs no problem.

This is what I am thinking, total cost ~$229.00

Any suggestions?

Wait for a few months until Conroe becomes available. As this processor will
require less power than the actual dual core cpu's, maybe you willnt have to
change your psu. But if you want to upgrade now, go for AMD which is
actually the best buy.

 

[Vash the Stampede]

Wait for a few months until Conroe becomes available. As this processor will
require less power than the actual dual core cpu's, maybe you willnt have to
change your psu. But if you want to upgrade now, go for AMD which is
actually the best buy.

<Hachiroku@work...>

Hmmm...after driving myself nuts for 3 days doing 'research', it seems
that Intel is actually gaining (actually, SURPASSING) on AMDs performance
lead, Dollar for Dollar!

And, you're talking to a guy who began his love affair with AMD by
building an AMD 386/40 machine!

 

[JohnS]

I am looking, after 9 years, of switching back to Intel. I will probably
use a Smithfield core, probably with a 400MHz FSB to take advantage of the
parts I already have. Either a D805 (this is a 533 FSB but can be clocked
over 3.2GHz no problem) or an 820 Pressler, 800MHz FSB Dual Core.

The MoBo is looking like an Asus P5P800 that will take advantage of my RAM
and my Video card.

Considering the pieces I already have, and that I am more intersted in
Video, Audio and Photo apps over gaming, I really want something that will
process the audio/video as well as possible. The MoBo will also handle the
900 series CPUs no problem.

This is what I am thinking, total cost ~$229.00

Any suggestions?

Im thinking about the 805D dual core entry level too. Its being hyped
to death on the net with claims of super performance at a cheap price.
However Im a little worried about power consumption.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2736&p=10
Idle
110 X2 3800
147 805D
Under load
163 X2
211 Pent

And thats not OCed.


Overclocked
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/10/dual_41_ghz_cores/page14.html

Idle
3.33 177 watts
3.6 204

Load
283
359

Toms Hardware mentions a few boards here
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/10/dual_41_ghz_cores/page11.html

Right now you can buy what you listed for around 200 or so plus tax.
Im thinking it might go lower as AMD and INTEL cut prices this month
with the Pent 805 under 100 hopefully and a cheap 59 buck board or
even cheaper if I can find a decent board both for 130-150 hopefully.
Actually Im hopeful an outpost deal combo will make both under 100 !
However that usually means a cheapo ECS board that will severely limit
OCing but all I want is 3.2 or so with air --- stock cooler.

Another area Im looking at. Some say you can hit 3.3 or even higher
with stock fan and others say forget about ANY OCing with the stock
unit. Since this is my second PC Im looking to pinch every penny I
can.

If I buy a decent board I would like to be able to upgrade to a Conroe
later but Im not even sure if that is possible.

 

[JohnS]

Hmmm...after driving myself nuts for 3 days doing 'research', it seems
that Intel is actually gaining (actually, SURPASSING) on AMDs performance
lead, Dollar for Dollar!

And, you're talking to a guy who began his love affair with AMD by
building an AMD 386/40 machine!

Yeah things are really fluid now. I would say the way things look the
new Intel lineup the Conroes look from previews like they will be much
better than the current and new AMDs. The new AMDs dont seem to add
much performance compared to a similar old AMD of the same gig rating.
So whether to get an INTEL or AMD will depend on pricing. They are
both supposedly will slash prices on their older stuff this month so
thats a factor. If its low enough than an older AMD or INTEL might be
the best deal. However theres talk that the NEW AMDs will be slashed
quickly to compete with the new INTELs which have better performance.
And theres talk that INTEL will be aggressive about pricing on their
new stuff to regain back mkt share they lost to AMD. So its fluid and
it all depends on prices.

For ultimate performance --- the new Intels look like the best choice
but it will depend on the price/performance ratio.

NEW AMDs AM2 --- if the price is right these may be a good alternative
and they will be using DDR2 which you can carry over to future systems
hopefully. The new AMDs still use the 90nm process as does the older
amds. Hopefully when AMD switches over next year to 65nm they will be
in full competition mode vs Intel and will be able to match the
performance of INTEL so if the new AM2s are cheap enough you could
switch and wait for that next year if you are determined to stick with
AMD.

The older AMDs ---- still great performance but uses older DDR so it
depends on how low they go. And if you still want to carry you DDR
3200 over to system the this is still viable.

The older Pents --- right now the 805D and some other older Intels
seem to be the OC monsters. AMDs also OC very well the opteron and
X2s. The 805 has incredible claims of OCing so if you can get into a
little OCing this probably is the budget king. You get very good
performance hopefully with a little OCing to 3.2 or so equal or close
to the AMD X2 3800 or higher. And hopefully this is easilly achievable
with most boards and with stock air.

If you go the insane route you can actually its claimed hit 4 gig and
get monster performance levels. However the main thing with this is
the higher you go you have to get a decent board and maybe water
cooling etc and there are increasing costs to look out for. The other
is INTELS eat power up --- the older ones like this without OCing.
With OCing you get into fairly high power consumption numbers.
THe AMDs are much quieter and cooler so if the X2 3800 isnt that much
more it might be a better option but once again it all depends on the
pricing which is fluid this month and next month probably as new
processors are introed.

 

[ElJerid]

Im thinking about the 805D dual core entry level too. Its being hyped
to death on the net with claims of super performance at a cheap price.
However Im a little worried about power consumption.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2736&p=10
Idle
110 X2 3800
147 805D
Under load
163 X2
211 Pent

And thats not OCed.


Overclocked
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/10/dual_41_ghz_cores/page14.html

Idle
3.33 177 watts
3.6 204

Load
283
359

Toms Hardware mentions a few boards here
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/10/dual_41_ghz_cores/page11.html

Right now you can buy what you listed for around 200 or so plus tax.
Im thinking it might go lower as AMD and INTEL cut prices this month
with the Pent 805 under 100 hopefully and a cheap 59 buck board or
even cheaper if I can find a decent board both for 130-150 hopefully.
Actually Im hopeful an outpost deal combo will make both under 100 !
However that usually means a cheapo ECS board that will severely limit
OCing but all I want is 3.2 or so with air --- stock cooler.

Another area Im looking at. Some say you can hit 3.3 or even higher
with stock fan and others say forget about ANY OCing with the stock
unit. Since this is my second PC Im looking to pinch every penny I
can.

If I buy a decent board I would like to be able to upgrade to a Conroe
later but Im not even sure if that is possible.

Forget about all prvious and actually obsolete cpu information!
As I said previously, go for Conroe.
Hereafter is a complete analysis + benchmarks of the first units. You will
also find interesting information about compatible motherboards.
By the way, average power consumption of tested model is only... 65 W !!!
Waaawww...

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core2duo-e6300.html

 

[JohnS]

Forget about all prvious and actually obsolete cpu information!
As I said previously, go for Conroe.
Hereafter is a complete analysis + benchmarks of the first units. You will
also find interesting information about compatible motherboards.
By the way, average power consumption of tested model is only... 65 W !!!
Waaawww...

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core2duo-e6300.html

Well as I said its a fluid situation and depends on price. If the new
cheap Conroe is $183 plus a 150 MB ---- vs some Pent805D with MB
combo for $90 thats a huge price difference for people on a budget.
For a new main system for people who were planning to spend 300-600
theyll be jumping on it of course but since I just got my X2 no way do
I want to spend another $400 or so on DDR2 + MB + CPU for a second
system ! And Im sure many others who are on a super tight budget and
planned to spend only 100-200 upgrading wont be thinking about a
conroe for a while --- like a year or so when prices come really down
hopefully with AMD coming out with their 65nm chips next year.

With the 805D we are talking the sempron, entry level category where
you can still get pretty mid level, lower upper level peformance for
peanuts. That wont be the case with the Conroe --- unless pigs fly
and chickens have lips which is I guess faintly possible if Intel
really goes crazy and tries to kill AMD to regain mkt share quickly.

I never buy new technology anyway cause it tends to be grossly
overpriced when its brand new. It takes about 6 months or so to cool
off and start getting reasonable in price.

A cheap upgradeable MB would be ideal but it says at Xbit that its not
a matter of some makers claiming they support the chip with various
MB models but something about the voltage regulator too and not many
boards out now are can completely support the new chips. They say that
will change with some new chipsets coming out etc so I guess you wont
be able to find any good cheap boards at this time I guess.

However the power consumption seems so great on a OCed Pent 805 its
making me pause a bit. If you live in a place where power costs are
really high I havent done the calculations if it will be significant
---- it seems like it may so I would defintely factor that in. I think
Toms Hardware or Anandtech talks about how future costs in your power
bill may offset the cheap price in the D 805. Thats a factor if you
are buying mainly to save money then an AMD after the price cuts may
be a better deal. They had a combo recently for 115 for a 3400 AMD
single core which is decent but it was a 754 socket.

 

[JohnS]

Forget about all prvious and actually obsolete cpu information!
As I said previously, go for Conroe.
Hereafter is a complete analysis + benchmarks of the first units. You will
also find interesting information about compatible motherboards.
By the way, average power consumption of tested model is only... 65 W !!!
Waaawww...

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core2duo-e6300.html

That one is defintely not in the budget category if its $183

but this one maybe if its lower than the price they estimated 165 or
so which is still way too high.

Xbit Labs 4300

Not sure how significant the features disabled are though and they
say its out in 2007 which is too long for such a small price savings.
Now by then if they flooded the mkt with the 4300 and sold it for
$125 or so and a cheap MB came out by then 70-80 and it could
OC like crazy like supposedly the other Conroes then this might be
worth waiting for.


---------------------------

According to several media reports, Intel will offer Core 2 Duo 4300
processor in the Q1 2007. The chip will be clocked at 1.80GHz, will
use 800MHz processor system bus (PSB), will have 2MB of level-two (L2)
cache shared between two cores and will be designed to fit into LGA775
socket. The new chip will lack virtualization technology, but will
still retain 64-bit capability (EM64T), execute disable bit (EDB) and
Intel Enhanced SpeedStep technology (EIST).

It is yet unclear, how much will the Core 2 Duo processor will cost,
as it will neither belong to low-cost Celeron chips, or high-speed
Core 2 Duo E6000-series microprocessors. It is known, however, that
the Core 2 Duo E6300 processor (1.83GHz, 1066MHz PSB, 2MB L2 cache)
costs $183, whereas the lowest-end Pentium D processor is priced at
$93. Given that the Core 2 Duo E6300 significantly outperforms Intel
Pentium D 945 ($163 in 1000-unit quantities), the Core 2 Duo E4300 may
offer similar performance to the latter, which means that it is likely
to cost below $163 when introduced.

 

[Poly-poly man]

Wait for a few months until Conroe becomes available. As this processor will
require less power than the actual dual core cpu's, maybe you willnt have to
change your psu. But if you want to upgrade now, go for AMD which is
actually the best buy.

I got a pretty powerful PSU for free, so I know they aren't all that
expensive. The correct thing to do is to wait for conroe to come out and
watch the prices of every previous processor plummet! One thing I found
was that if you get an 820 (i think) it o/c's stabily to 4ghz on stock
heatsink!

hih,
poly-p man

 

[Hachiroku]

Im thinking about the 805D dual core entry level too. Its being hyped
to death on the net with claims of super performance at a cheap price.
However Im a little worried about power consumption.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2736&p=10
Idle
110 X2 3800
147 805D
Under load
163 X2
211 Pent

And thats not OCed.


Overclocked
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/10/dual_41_ghz_cores/page14.html

Idle
3.33 177 watts
3.6 204

Load
283
359

Toms Hardware mentions a few boards here
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/10/dual_41_ghz_cores/page11.html

Right now you can buy what you listed for around 200 or so plus tax.
Im thinking it might go lower as AMD and INTEL cut prices this month
with the Pent 805 under 100 hopefully and a cheap 59 buck board or
even cheaper if I can find a decent board both for 130-150 hopefully.
Actually Im hopeful an outpost deal combo will make both under 100 !
However that usually means a cheapo ECS board that will severely limit
OCing but all I want is 3.2 or so with air --- stock cooler.

Another area Im looking at. Some say you can hit 3.3 or even higher
with stock fan and others say forget about ANY OCing with the stock
unit. Since this is my second PC Im looking to pinch every penny I
can.

If I buy a decent board I would like to be able to upgrade to a Conroe
later but Im not even sure if that is possible.

I believe the MoBo connectors will be different, so the way to look is
towards something you can build cheaply now and upgrade to a better chip
later when the prices drop.

It looks like the LGA775 Socket is the way to do this.

Since I just bought my Diamond 8X AGP card 3.5 weeks ago (and TOO LATE to
exchange) I need to keep the AGP slot, and I just upgraded my RAM with
Kingston HyperX PC3500. These pieces have to stay.

I decided if I went to Intel, I would use either the 630 or the 820, or
possibly the D 805 everyone raves about. I think the 805 was a Dead End
for sure, but the 775 looks like it will be around, and if you don't want
to hobble yourself with an AGP card you can get some that support dual
cores, hyperthreading, 64 bit, etc. So, you can slap a ~$150 CPU in for
now, and when the prices drop on the Dual Core Screamers within a year you
should be able to swap the chip for one that costs $500 now for about the
same price. You'll have to pay attention to the BIOS upgrades and make
sure they are available for the chip you'll want to install later!


After looking at benchmarks, I believe I'm sticking with AMD again!
Similarly priced chips (like the Intel 630 series and the AMD Venice CPU)
has the AMD beating everything but the raw CPU tests, and this is to be
expected, since I'm 'running' a Dual Core Intel against a 64 bit AMD in
some cases, and the chips that perform with the Athlon +3800 on the App
tests cost >$200!!!

So, for the next three years, it looks like AMD again, for the third time
in a row! (I had an AMD K6 on a DFI MoBo that ran faster than early P4s!!!
Had to have 3 fans blowing on it, and ran it that way for almost seven
years!!!)

The other consideration was Overclocking and heat. The AMDs overclock very
easily, so I should be able to hit ~3GHz, and the Intels are HOT!!!!


My last Intel was a 486DX33 I clocked to 50MHz. Ran that for 4 years!

I'm sure by the next time I'm ready to have an entirely new system, AMD
will be kicking ass again!


Good Luck!

 

[Hachiroku]

Well, I don't want to buy an entirely new system, but I want to can my
SOYO ULTRA 400 MoBo. I am running Kingston HyperX PC3500 and can't install
more than 512.

I just added a Diamond Radeon 9550 AGP 8x Card, I have another 256M of
Crucial PC3200 RAM that when I install forces the bus back to 166,

The CPU is an AMD Athlon Thoroughbred clocked to 1996 MHZ, FSB running 217
to bump the RAM to 433. It's getting a little tired, time for an upgrade?

I am looking, after 9 years, of switching back to Intel. I will probably
use a Smithfield core, probably with a 400MHz FSB to take advantage of the
parts I already have. Either a D805 (this is a 533 FSB but can be clocked
over 3.2GHz no problem) or an 820 Pressler, 800MHz FSB Dual Core.

The MoBo is looking like an Asus P5P800 that will take advantage of my RAM
and my Video card.

Considering the pieces I already have, and that I am more intersted in
Video, Audio and Photo apps over gaming, I really want something that will
process the audio/video as well as possible. The MoBo will also handle the
900 series CPUs no problem.

This is what I am thinking, total cost ~$229.00

Any suggestions?

Thanks all for your answers. I think an Asus MB with an AMD Venice +3800
is the ticket for the price right now. And I get to keep all my periphs
(mem/AGP8X)

That's a 2.8(?) GHz chip, and if OC'ing is as easy with this as with my
past AMDs looks like 3.2 should be NP!

Now, I'll be back in 3 years!!!

 

[JohnS]

That's a 2.8(?) GHz chip, and if OC'ing is as easy with this as with my
past AMDs looks like 3.2 should be NP!

Now, I'll be back in 3 years!!!

I might stick with my 3200 AMD as a second system too. Im spooked by
the power consumption numbers. Itll depend on how low the 805D goes
the next couple of weeks.

 

[Hachiroku]

I might stick with my 3200 AMD as a second system too. Im spooked by
the power consumption numbers. Itll depend on how low the 805D goes
the next couple of weeks.

Yeah, it looks like Core Duo is going to cause a real shake-down...


I'm back leaning towards AMD again. I've been doing a LOT of reading, and
I'm not a gamer, and it seems the 3800+ Venice is a better performer for
the $$$. Dollar for Dollar, the AMDs perform better than the Intels in
everything but the raw CPU tests. In the raw CPU tests, the Intels are
clearly the winners, but it is in the communication with the rest of the
system where the AMD shines. Even though the Intel CPUs proces the data
faster, getting it to the rest of the system is slower.


I'm usually a gung-ho guy, and once I decide something I act, but I think
I'll wait 5 more days...