Unit Test Framework for .NET 2.0?

[Brian McCullough]

Hello,

I posted a similar question to the less active MSBuild community group, so I
apologize in advance for double posting, but I think it is applicable to
this group as well...


If I am using the Standard or Professional editions of Visual Studio 2005,
can I make use of the unit testing framework provided by the Team Suite?
For example, is this Microsoft unit testing framework available (and legal)
to use outside of the Team Suite (i.e. Team Edition for Software Developers
or Team Edition for Software Testers)?

If so, where can I obtain a copy (or SDK) that can be downloaded and used
with my Visual Studio 2005 Professional installation?

I am not looking to get all of the features out the Team Suite into my
Professional installation, just the ability to write some unit test classes
and have them run in my build script. Would like to continue to use
Microsoft tools, but I guess an alternative would be to use NUnit.

TIA

 

[Jurjen de Groot]

Brian,

I've been using TestDriven.Net for the past week, it comes with
code-coverage and costs only $95
Try it at http://www.testdriven.net/default.aspx, you can download the
'personal edition' for free.

Works great,
Jurjen.

 

[Michael Nemtsev]

Hello Brian,

VS test framework cant be used outside the team suite edition.
USe NUnit for this


---
WBR, Michael Nemtsev [C# MVP].
My blog: http://spaces.live.com/laflour
Team blog: http://devkids.blogspot.com/

"The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we
miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it" (c) Michelangelo

BM> Hello,
BM>
BM> I posted a similar question to the less active MSBuild community
BM> group, so I apologize in advance for double posting, but I think it
BM> is applicable to this group as well...
BM>
BM> If I am using the Standard or Professional editions of Visual Studio
BM> 2005, can I make use of the unit testing framework provided by the
BM> Team Suite? For example, is this Microsoft unit testing framework
BM> available (and legal) to use outside of the Team Suite (i.e. Team
BM> Edition for Software Developers or Team Edition for Software
BM> Testers)?
BM>
BM> If so, where can I obtain a copy (or SDK) that can be downloaded and
BM> used with my Visual Studio 2005 Professional installation?
BM>
BM> I am not looking to get all of the features out the Team Suite into
BM> my Professional installation, just the ability to write some unit
BM> test classes and have them run in my build script. Would like to
BM> continue to use Microsoft tools, but I guess an alternative would be
BM> to use NUnit.
BM>
BM> TIA
BM>

 

[Brian McCullough]

Does anyone know if Microsoft is planning to offer this unit testing
framework as a separate SDK at any point???

 

[Michael Nemtsev]

Hello Brian,

Probably not. Why?!
There should be the sound reason for this.

---
WBR, Michael Nemtsev [C# MVP].
My blog: http://spaces.live.com/laflour
Team blog: http://devkids.blogspot.com/

"The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we
miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it" (c) Michelangelo

BM> Does anyone know if Microsoft is planning to offer this unit testing
BM> framework as a separate SDK at any point???
BM>
BM> BM>

Hello Brian,

VS test framework cant be used outside the team suite edition. USe
NUnit for this

---
WBR, Michael Nemtsev [C# MVP]. My blog:
http://spaces.live.com/laflour
Team blog: http://devkids.blogspot.com/
"The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high
and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it" (c)
Michelangelo

BM> Hello,
BM> BM> I posted a similar question to the less active MSBuild
community
BM> group, so I apologize in advance for double posting, but I think
it
BM> is applicable to this group as well...
BM> BM> If I am using the Standard or Professional editions of Visual
Studio
BM> 2005, can I make use of the unit testing framework provided by
the
BM> Team Suite? For example, is this Microsoft unit testing framework
BM> available (and legal) to use outside of the Team Suite (i.e. Team
BM> Edition for Software Developers or Team Edition for Software
BM> Testers)?
BM> BM> If so, where can I obtain a copy (or SDK) that can be
downloaded
and
BM> used with my Visual Studio 2005 Professional installation?
BM> BM> I am not looking to get all of the features out the Team
Suite
into
BM> my Professional installation, just the ability to write some unit
BM> test classes and have them run in my build script. Would like to
BM> continue to use Microsoft tools, but I guess an alternative would
be
BM> to use NUnit.
BM> BM> TIA
BM>

 

[Brian McCullough]

Well, I like to use the Microsoft tools, rather than download and use some
other tools.

If they allowed Professional and Standard users to write unit tests against
their framwework, we wouldnt have to use stuff like NUnit. I am not
suggesting they include the tools in the Visual Studio IDE , but at least
provide the assemblies, so that we had the opportunity to reference them and
write our own unit tests using their framework. I also think it would be a
better path to follow for when people using Standard/Professional then
migrate to the Team edition.

-Brian

Hello Brian,

Probably not. Why?!
There should be the sound reason for this.
---
WBR, Michael Nemtsev [C# MVP]. My blog: http://spaces.live.com/laflour
Team blog: http://devkids.blogspot.com/

"The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we
miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it" (c) Michelangelo

BM> Does anyone know if Microsoft is planning to offer this unit testing
BM> framework as a separate SDK at any point???
BM> BM>

Hello Brian,

VS test framework cant be used outside the team suite edition. USe
NUnit for this

---
WBR, Michael Nemtsev [C# MVP]. My blog:
http://spaces.live.com/laflour
Team blog: http://devkids.blogspot.com/
"The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high
and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it" (c)
Michelangelo

BM> Hello,
BM> BM> I posted a similar question to the less active MSBuild
community
BM> group, so I apologize in advance for double posting, but I think
it
BM> is applicable to this group as well...
BM> BM> If I am using the Standard or Professional editions of Visual
Studio
BM> 2005, can I make use of the unit testing framework provided by
the
BM> Team Suite? For example, is this Microsoft unit testing framework
BM> available (and legal) to use outside of the Team Suite (i.e. Team
BM> Edition for Software Developers or Team Edition for Software
BM> Testers)?
BM> BM> If so, where can I obtain a copy (or SDK) that can be
downloaded
and
BM> used with my Visual Studio 2005 Professional installation?
BM> BM> I am not looking to get all of the features out the Team
Suite
into
BM> my Professional installation, just the ability to write some unit
BM> test classes and have them run in my build script. Would like to
BM> continue to use Microsoft tools, but I guess an alternative would
be
BM> to use NUnit.
BM> BM> TIA
BM>

 

[Michael Nemtsev]

Hello Brian,

I understand u and your point.
But each thing, which is shipped is aimed to the specific area/users to win
their loyality and attract new customers.
From one side we have the number of users on all possible version of development
tools using NUnit.
From the other side we have the VS TeamSuite which cost a lot of money and
which has a Test support.

Well, if MS decided to suggest VS test framework for other editions rather
then TeamSuite - they won nothing.
There is nothing to win at all. So, what the reason for this?!

I'd say even more, not all users who choose VS TeamSuite use VS test NUnit
is well known for ages, the number of continuous integration system is built
on the top of NUnit an there is no reasons to use VS test.
The one exeption is the TeamFoundation, where VS test is integrated very well

---
WBR, Michael Nemtsev [C# MVP].
My blog: http://spaces.live.com/laflour
Team blog: http://devkids.blogspot.com/

"The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we
miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it" (c) Michelangelo

BM> Well, I like to use the Microsoft tools, rather than download and
BM> use some other tools.
BM>
BM> If they allowed Professional and Standard users to write unit tests
BM> against their framwework, we wouldnt have to use stuff like NUnit.
BM> I am not suggesting they include the tools in the Visual Studio IDE
BM> , but at least provide the assemblies, so that we had the
BM> opportunity to reference them and write our own unit tests using
BM> their framework. I also think it would be a better path to follow
BM> for when people using Standard/Professional then migrate to the Team
BM> edition.
BM>
BM> -Brian
BM>
BM> BM>

Hello Brian,

Probably not. Why?!
There should be the sound reason for this.
---
WBR, Michael Nemtsev [C# MVP]. My blog:
http://spaces.live.com/laflour
Team blog: http://devkids.blogspot.com/
"The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high
and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it" (c)
Michelangelo

BM> Does anyone know if Microsoft is planning to offer this unit
testing
BM> framework as a separate SDK at any point???
BM> BM>

Hello Brian,

VS test framework cant be used outside the team suite edition. USe
NUnit for this

---
WBR, Michael Nemtsev [C# MVP]. My blog:
http://spaces.live.com/laflour
Team blog: http://devkids.blogspot.com/
"The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high
and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it" (c)
Michelangelo
BM> Hello,
BM> BM> I posted a similar question to the less active MSBuild
community
BM> group, so I apologize in advance for double posting, but I
think
it
BM> is applicable to this group as well...
BM> BM> If I am using the Standard or Professional editions of
Visual
Studio
BM> 2005, can I make use of the unit testing framework provided by
the
BM> Team Suite? For example, is this Microsoft unit testing
framework
BM> available (and legal) to use outside of the Team Suite (i.e.
Team
BM> Edition for Software Developers or Team Edition for Software
BM> Testers)?
BM> BM> If so, where can I obtain a copy (or SDK) that can be
downloaded
and
BM> used with my Visual Studio 2005 Professional installation?
BM> BM> I am not looking to get all of the features out the Team
Suite
into
BM> my Professional installation, just the ability to write some
unit
BM> test classes and have them run in my build script. Would like
to
BM> continue to use Microsoft tools, but I guess an alternative
would
be
BM> to use NUnit.
BM> BM> TIA
BM>

 

[William Stacey [C# MVP]]

VSTS Dev addition has test. Hands down worth the money (especially if using
VSTS server, but not required). The test and code coverage is very well
integrated. High marks here. I have used other products in past (nunit,
csunit, etc). Those work fine, but vsts dev is the nuts.

--
William Stacey [C# MVP]
PCR concurrency library: www.codeplex.com/pcr
PSH Scripts Project www.codeplex.com/psobject


| Does anyone know if Microsoft is planning to offer this unit testing
| framework as a separate SDK at any point???
|
|
|
| | > Hello Brian,
| >
| > VS test framework cant be used outside the team suite edition.
| > USe NUnit for this
| >
| >
| > ---
| > WBR, Michael Nemtsev [C# MVP]. My blog:
http://spaces.live.com/laflour
| > Team blog: http://devkids.blogspot.com/
| >
| > "The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and
we
| > miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it" (c) Michelangelo
| >
| > BM> Hello,
| > BM> BM> I posted a similar question to the less active MSBuild community
| > BM> group, so I apologize in advance for double posting, but I think it
| > BM> is applicable to this group as well...
| > BM> BM> If I am using the Standard or Professional editions of Visual
| > Studio
| > BM> 2005, can I make use of the unit testing framework provided by the
| > BM> Team Suite? For example, is this Microsoft unit testing framework
| > BM> available (and legal) to use outside of the Team Suite (i.e. Team
| > BM> Edition for Software Developers or Team Edition for Software
| > BM> Testers)?
| > BM> BM> If so, where can I obtain a copy (or SDK) that can be downloaded
| > and
| > BM> used with my Visual Studio 2005 Professional installation?
| > BM> BM> I am not looking to get all of the features out the Team Suite
| > into
| > BM> my Professional installation, just the ability to write some unit
| > BM> test classes and have them run in my build script. Would like to
| > BM> continue to use Microsoft tools, but I guess an alternative would be
| > BM> to use NUnit.
| > BM> BM> TIA
| > BM>
| >
|
|

 

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

Probably not. Why?!
There should be the sound reason for this.

They should have provided them *at least* in VS 2005 Standard editions
from the start. They could have "owned" the unit testing mindshare in
..NET. Instead, NUnit will almost certainly dominate as many
organisations don't need anything beyond what VS Professional provides.

It would also have given the impression that they believe unit testing
is a good thing for all developers, not just those in large teams.

 

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

I understand u and your point.
But each thing, which is shipped is aimed to the specific area/users to win
their loyality and attract new customers.
From one side we have the number of users on all possible version of development
tools using NUnit.
From the other side we have the VS TeamSuite which cost a lot of money and
which has a Test support.

Well, if MS decided to suggest VS test framework for other editions rather
then TeamSuite - they won nothing.

No, they'd have won mindshare, and made a good impression.

There is nothing to win at all. So, what the reason for this?!

The above. As it is, what have they gained? Do you think they've made a
single TeamSuite sale which they wouldn't have made if the VS Test side
had been included in other editions?

I'd say even more, not all users who choose VS TeamSuite use VS test NUnit
is well known for ages, the number of continuous integration system is built
on the top of NUnit an there is no reasons to use VS test.

There *would* have been one reason to use VS Test: being built-in, you
would be able to guarantee that every new hire, or every new team
member on your open source project, etc, would already have it, without
having to get it from somewhere else and download it. IMO it would have
made a massive impact for this reason, in the same way that IE made
such a huge impact - if you've already *got* a unit test framework
available and integrated, wouldn't that become your default choice?

The one exeption is the TeamFoundation, where VS test is integrated
very well

At which point, having large numbers of VS Test users would help sales
of Team Foundation...

 

[Michael Nemtsev]

Hello Jon Skeet [C# MVP],
J> No, they'd have won mindshare, and made a good impression.

probably yes
J> The above. As it is, what have they gained? Do you think they've made
J> a single TeamSuite sale which they wouldn't have made if the VS Test
J> side had been included in other editions?

I'd make it more clear - having the VS test only in TeamSuite make it more
neat and more preferable for the customers.
TeamSuite is aimed to the serious development, where we set the high bar
in what do we do.
All previous version is more "student", to try all "jam" of VS 2005 but a
little bit shortcuted.
I see only the marketing here. IMO.

J> There *would* have been one reason to use VS Test: being built-in,
J> you would be able to guarantee that every new hire, or every new team
J> member on your open source project, etc, would already have it,
J> without having to get it from somewhere else and download it.

I cannot but agree, if only it was being built-in, but it isn't.
This is possible for those projects which are started only recently and probably
in new company, which has no previous projects and has nothing from the continious
integration system, otherwise they already had smth build on the top of Nunit.

J> would have made a massive impact for this reason, in the same way
J> that IE made such a huge impact - if you've already *got* a unit test
J> framework available and integrated, wouldn't that become your default
J> choice?

It would, but situation a little bit different, we are all using nunit, and
VS test were introduced recently
J> At which point, having large numbers of VS Test users would help
J> sales of Team Foundation...

IMO it is so.

---
WBR, Michael Nemtsev [C# MVP].
My blog: http://spaces.live.com/laflour
Team blog: http://devkids.blogspot.com/

"The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we
miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it" (c) Michelangel

 

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

J> The above. As it is, what have they gained? Do you think they've made
J> a single TeamSuite sale which they wouldn't have made if the VS Test
J> side had been included in other editions?

I'd make it more clear - having the VS test only in TeamSuite make it more
neat and more preferable for the customers.

But not enough to make the difference between a sale of TS and a sale
of Pro, I suspect.

TeamSuite is aimed to the serious development, where we set the high bar
in what do we do.
All previous version is more "student", to try all "jam" of VS 2005 but a
little bit shortcuted.

Not at all. For many ISVs, there's not enough in TS to make it worth
the steep cost over Pro. There's a reason Professional is called
Professional rather than Student...

If you're a Microsoft-only shop which is easily able to buy into
everything TS/TFS gives you, that's fine - but for other shops which
already have a cross-platform source control system, a bug tracking
system, etc, it's too high a price to pay. None of that says that unit
testing isn't important to those shops - now why does MS want to
encourage us to use NUnit rather than VS Test?

I see only the marketing here. IMO.

But it's marketing based on false assumptions, IMO.

J> There *would* have been one reason to use VS Test: being built-in,
J> you would be able to guarantee that every new hire, or every new team
J> member on your open source project, etc, would already have it,
J> without having to get it from somewhere else and download it.

I cannot but agree, if only it was being built-in, but it isn't.

Exactly - *because* they didn't build it into VS Standard, it's not the
de facto standard test tool, and so they've given NUnit another couple
of years of "free ride" effectively.

This is possible for those projects which are started only recently
and probably in new company, which has no previous projects and has
nothing from the continious integration system, otherwise they
already had smth build on the top of Nunit.

I reckon if they'd bundled it into Standard, it would quite possibly be
the de facto standard test tool by the end of 2007. Nothing happens
overnight, but you've got to start somewhere. They made a serious
mistake, IMO.

J> would have made a massive impact for this reason, in the same way
J> that IE made such a huge impact - if you've already *got* a unit test
J> framework available and integrated, wouldn't that become your default
J> choice?

It would, but situation a little bit different, we are all using nunit, and
VS test were introduced recently

2005 isn't *that* recent - there's been enough time that VS Test would
have gained a lot of traction by now, I'm sure. As it is, far fewer
people are using VS Test than would otherwise be, and I bet MS hasn't
gained a single dollar.

J> At which point, having large numbers of VS Test users would help
J> sales of Team Foundation...

IMO it is so.

The only users of VS Test are users of Team System, so it can't
possibly drive further sales of Team System. It might drive extra sales
of TFS *on top* of Team Systen, but I reckon it would do so a lot
better if it had a more significant mindshare.