Uninstall is a Mockery

  • Thread starter Thread starter ColTom2
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ColTom2

Hi:

Probably the wrong Newsgroup to post this, but felt I had to start
somewhere.

Why does the computer industry tolerate the current uninstall procedures
that allow so many left over files on ones computer? The word uninstall is a
joke and might be better named "Left Over Files". How many applications do
you know that completely removes all files from your computer when you run
uninstall? It's shameful and if the general public really knew they would
demand better procedures for uninstall.

I believe that when a company sells its software to the public they should
be required to completely remove all related files upon uninstall. What
really brought this to mind is recent events where I had to uninstall
Symantec's Norton System Works 2005 and also Roxio 7.5. Norton even has
developed a Removal Tool in addition to normal uninstall; however, the tool
does not totally remove all files.

I manually edited the registry to delete all associated files with the two
applications just mentioned and was astonished as to how many files were
still left and the time required to delete them from my computer.

This issue needs to be addressed by someone in the computer industry to
insure better removal of all files when running uninstall. I just don't know
who.....

Thanks
 
I absolutely agree. I use computer associates anti virus and tried to
uninstall mcafee and could not complete it. Tried also to uninstall aol and
had a problem.
 
You've just spouted off all the things that have been going through my head
for the last 24 hrs. I have been experiencing 3 minute shutdowns ever since
I uninstalled Roxio V6.0 a week ago but it took me up to 24 hrs ago to
suspect Roxio. Had I not read a cpl comments in this NG I likely would
never have suspected it.
I read they had issued a fix, "Roxiozap", but I failed to find it on their
Website.
I found 5 of their leftover dlls in the registry under DEBUG but, being a
Novice, rather than delete them I want to wait to get confirmation. Also,
WHY are they in the Debug section?

What's worse is I've already bought V8.0 but didn't want to install it until
I corrected my slow shutdowns. I won't know for sure it is Roxio until I
delete these registry entries but if it is, this program is going back to the
store and I'll buy another program. Other Uninstallers in Add/Remove, leave
empty folders, I can live with that but to leave files is totally
unacceptable. I've spent hours trying to track this problem down. ... Thx
for your Post. It will alert others.
 
In
ColTom2 said:
Hi:

Probably the wrong Newsgroup to post this, but felt I had to start
somewhere.

Why does the computer industry tolerate the current uninstall
procedures that allow so many left over files on ones computer? The
word uninstall is a joke and might be better named "Left Over Files".
How many applications do you know that completely removes all files
from your computer when you run uninstall? It's shameful and if the
general public really knew they would demand better procedures for
uninstall.
I believe that when a company sells its software to the public they
should be required to completely remove all related files upon
uninstall. What really brought this to mind is recent events where I
had to uninstall Symantec's Norton System Works 2005 and also Roxio
7.5. Norton even has developed a Removal Tool in addition to normal
uninstall; however, the tool does not totally remove all files.

I manually edited the registry to delete all associated files with
the two applications just mentioned and was astonished as to how many
files were still left and the time required to delete them from my
computer.
This issue needs to be addressed by someone in the computer industry
to insure better removal of all files when running uninstall. I just
don't know who.....

Thanks
Click to expand...

I agree that this is annoying, but I'm not sure what you'll get out of
posting this complaint to an MS public newsgroup. If you see a problem with
this issue with a particular software vendor, contact them and complain.
 
Hi:

Probably the wrong Newsgroup to post this, but felt I had to start
somewhere.

Why does the computer industry tolerate the current uninstall procedures
that allow so many left over files on ones computer? The word uninstall is a
joke and might be better named "Left Over Files". How many applications do
you know that completely removes all files from your computer when you run
uninstall? It's shameful and if the general public really knew they would
demand better procedures for uninstall.
Click to expand...

Join the MILLIONS (likely that many) who don't believe
"un-installs" truly are.

While I'm no expert by any means, I'm taking a stab at a
possible cause of the problem, and it's not the software
mfg. It's Microsoft, who-- last I heard-- STILL refuses to
release their code.

That means that the add-on guys, Norton, Roxio, etc., must
continue to take their best GUESS as to how Windows does
various tasks.

And so until the other manufacturers have Microsoft's code
under a "non-competition" agreement, I am betting the very
best "uninstall" routines will continue to be a "best
guess."

Therefore, I suggest that you don't blame the little guys,
when the blame should likely rest at the front door of

Microsoft Inc.

And as a former employee (contract tech writer/help desk
person), if I told you the absolute ARROGANCE under that
roof (Microsoft), you likely would not believe me.


Good luck!


Tallahassee
 
Talahasee said:
Join the MILLIONS (likely that many) who don't believe
"un-installs" truly are.

While I'm no expert by any means, I'm taking a stab at a
possible cause of the problem, and it's not the software
mfg. It's Microsoft, who-- last I heard-- STILL refuses to
release their code.
Click to expand...

Oh fer-cryin'-out-loud. Why blame Microsoft for the bad manners and/or
general incompetency of some software companies. There are plenty of
folks who can figure it out, and who can find the docs or at least have
half a brain enough to work out what files they installed and what
settings they changed at install time. What "code needs to be released"
to make that so?????

Next we'll be blaming <insert your favourite target> for the intolerable
level of cigarette butts dropped on the ground everywhere.It's shameful
and if the general public really knew they would demand better
procedures for uninstalling cigarettes from mouths.
 
Talahasee said:
Join the MILLIONS (likely that many) who don't believe
"un-installs" truly are.

While I'm no expert by any means, I'm taking a stab at a
possible cause of the problem, and it's not the software
mfg. It's Microsoft, who-- last I heard-- STILL refuses to
release their code.
Click to expand...

You stabbed wrong dude. I am a .NET software developer. How is it I can
completely remove my applications during an uninstall while Norton cannot?
Well, for one I don't use a root-kit (as does Norton and many DVD
burner/copy programs) which likely requires a special removal tool.

Also, I don't use the Windows Registry as my own personal database. "Gee,
what shall I do with this value that I want to persist? I know, I'll stick
it in the Registry." Dumb, dumb, dumb.

The general rule is to uninstall all program files and leave all
user-created documents and settings in the (not surprisingly named)
documents and settings folder structure. There should be nothing left in
the Program Files and nothing left in the Registry (with very few
exceptions).

carl
 
Vagabond Software said:
You stabbed wrong dude. I am a .NET software developer. How is it I can
completely remove my applications during an uninstall while Norton cannot?
Well, for one I don't use a root-kit (as does Norton and many DVD
burner/copy programs) which likely requires a special removal tool.

Also, I don't use the Windows Registry as my own personal database. "Gee,
what shall I do with this value that I want to persist? I know, I'll
stick it in the Registry." Dumb, dumb, dumb.

The general rule is to uninstall all program files and leave all
user-created documents and settings in the (not surprisingly named)
documents and settings folder structure. There should be nothing left in
the Program Files and nothing left in the Registry (with very few
exceptions).

carl
Click to expand...

Where do you put your software configs? In something like the .ini files
many programs used to have?
 
Doug Kanter said:
Where do you put your software configs? In something like the .ini files
many programs used to have?
Click to expand...

Sort of... most now use binary "dat' type files or XML. It is now chic to
use something called Isolated Storage, which resides under the 'Documents
and Settings\user\Application Data' or 'Local Settings\Application Data'
sub-folders. The difference between the two is typically whether or not we
are dealing with a roaming profile or a local profile, which can be tested
determined during installation.

carl
 
Vagabond Software said:
Sort of... most now use binary "dat' type files or XML. It is now chic to
use something called Isolated Storage, which resides under the 'Documents
and Settings\user\Application Data' or 'Local Settings\Application Data'
sub-folders. The difference between the two is typically whether or not
we are dealing with a roaming profile or a local profile, which can be
tested determined during installation.

carl
Click to expand...

It would be nice if vendors had to name every file that handles the options
we so carefully tweak, so we back up those files. That's why I used to love
..ini files. Mozilla sorta kinda does it, but the open sauce programming mob
will probably ruin that in the next raping & pillaging. :-(
 
My first sentence of my posting was somewhat of a caveat and again I felt
that I had to start somewhere. I also posted my concern at CNET.com for
whatever it's worth.

I can't complain to 99% of all vendors....it would sorta be like opening
the back door and hollering to the winds!

Whoever is supposedly an industry "watchdog" should change the
requirements to insure when you purchase an application that the uninstall
works and prevent all this "space junk". Nuff said....



"Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]"
 
Mike said:
Oh fer-cryin'-out-loud. Why blame Microsoft for the bad manners and/or
general incompetency of some software companies.
Click to expand...

Ha Ha Ha! Have you ever tried uninstalling Office and re-installing? the
uninstall routine does NOT remove all the files! All your personal settings
are still there! So MS is as BAD AS THE REST!
 
ColTom2 said:
My first sentence of my posting was somewhat of a caveat and again I
felt that I had to start somewhere. I also posted my concern at
CNET.com for whatever it's worth.

I can't complain to 99% of all vendors....it would sorta be like
opening the back door and hollering to the winds!
Click to expand...


Complain to one vendor or 100, as you see fit and as you have time for. If
anything can be accomplished by complaining, you can at least make a start
that way. But complaining *here* is really "hollering to the winds," because
it accomplishes nothing. You're addressing people who can't do anything
about it. We're all just Windows users here, as you are, and many of us
experience the same frustrations in this regard that you do.

Whoever is supposedly an industry "watchdog" should change the
requirements to insure when you purchase an application that the
uninstall works and prevent all this "space junk". Nuff said....
Click to expand...


There are no industry watchdogs here that I know of, and there are also no
requirements regarding uninstallation, or almost anything else. Software is
written by an individual or by a company and the writers are essentially
free to do whatever they want.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup



"Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]"
In

I agree that this is annoying, but I'm not sure what you'll get out
of posting this complaint to an MS public newsgroup. If you see a
problem with this issue with a particular software vendor, contact
them and complain.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Hi:

Probably the wrong Newsgroup to post this, but felt I had to start
somewhere.

Why does the computer industry tolerate the current uninstall procedures
that allow so many left over files on ones computer? The word uninstall is a
joke and might be better named "Left Over Files". How many applications do
you know that completely removes all files from your computer when you run
uninstall? It's shameful and if the general public really knew they would
demand better procedures for uninstall.

I believe that when a company sells its software to the public they should
be required to completely remove all related files upon uninstall. What
really brought this to mind is recent events where I had to uninstall
Symantec's Norton System Works 2005 and also Roxio 7.5. Norton even has
developed a Removal Tool in addition to normal uninstall; however, the tool
does not totally remove all files.

I manually edited the registry to delete all associated files with the two
applications just mentioned and was astonished as to how many files were
still left and the time required to delete them from my computer.

This issue needs to be addressed by someone in the computer industry to
insure better removal of all files when running uninstall. I just don't know
who.....

Thanks
Click to expand...

Now why would you want to put a segment of the software industry out of
work, but this I mean the various companies that produce free and paid
Install/Uninstall monitors. Take a look at the List of Lists Install &
Uninstall Tools page,
<http://lists.thedatalist.com/pages/Install~Uninstall_Tools.htm>, there are
plenty of options available. Total Uninstall is my favorite for awhile now,
but the main draw back to any of them is the added install time they create
doing registry and file system scans before and after an install.
 
I;m a newcomer and too naive to keep up with your lingo actually I think
you are a bunch of weardoos , but you aroused my interest. Right now I'm
fishing in the dark like an old fuggy which I am . my regards to the clan.
Tony whos not in line.
 
In
ColTom2 said:
My first sentence of my posting was somewhat of a caveat and again I
felt that I had to start somewhere. I also posted my concern at
CNET.com for whatever it's worth.

I can't complain to 99% of all vendors....it would sorta be like
opening the back door and hollering to the winds!
Click to expand...

Why *can't* you complain to the companies whose software is at fault? Even
via email?
Whoever is supposedly an industry "watchdog" should change the
requirements to insure when you purchase an application that the
uninstall works and prevent all this "space junk". Nuff said....
Click to expand...

Essentially, there is no industry watchdog, and there are no requirements.
And they wouldn't be enforceable even if they existed.
I do share your pain, but posting this in a technical support newsgroup is
really futile.


"Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]"
In

I agree that this is annoying, but I'm not sure what you'll get out
of posting this complaint to an MS public newsgroup. If you see a
problem with this issue with a particular software vendor, contact
them and complain.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
"Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]"
In

Why *can't* you complain to the companies whose software is at fault? Even
via email?
Click to expand...

Amazing trick - don't tell anyone about it: Go to the company's web site,
get the phone number, ask for the name of the company's CEO, and her/his
mailing address. Write letter. Put in envelope. Mail it.
 
Unfortuanately you didn't remove all of Norton. Buyer beware is what I
think they rely on. Remember in a Capitalist society the Consumer is
dogmeat.
 
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