Trying to copy an old PATA IDE Conner 240MB 2.5" hard drive

[BillW50]

I am trying to view and copy everything off of an old PATA 2.5" Conner
240MB hard drive. It is a hard drive from 1993. It has Windows Pen v1.0
which is really MS-DOS 6.2 and Windows 3.1 with pen support. I tried two
different PATA to USB adapters, but no luck. Zentimo (a third party
safely remove utility) sees it is a Conner 240MB drive, but can't see
anything on the drive. Windows XP Manage doesn't see anything.

The hard drive has about 100MB worth of stuff on it that I want to
backup. This should be an easy task. But I guess old IDE drives are not
supported by PATA to USB adapters. I have dozens of machines here and
many of them should be able to read this drive (all laptops). Problem is
that the drive is very large in height. Probably 15mm or higher. And
none of my laptops could accept a drive so high.

I can think of two options:

1) Copy the files on the Windows Pen machine to floppy and transfer
100MB worth that way.

2) Use a serial null modem cable to another machine and transfer files
that way.

Neither option sounds very attractive to me. Both would require lots of
work. Anybody have any other ideas? The Windows Pen machine has two
PCMCIA ports, serial, parallel, and two PS/2 ports. I do have three
PCMCIA 512MB hard drives in storage and it would take me hours to find
them. But I don't think that would work. Because you can't copy Windows
from the running Windows. And DOS can't see those drives. I know Windows
95 can automatically see them, but I don't recall if Windows 3.1 can or
not.

If you are curious, the Windows Pen machine is a Compaq Concerto. I
never heard of them before January. But I have about a dozen Windows
Tablets (I love them) running Windows XP, Windows 7, and 8. And I am
really shocked that a Windows Tablet from '93 had virtually all of the
features of a modern Windows Tablet. It even has a few features that are
not found with modern Tablets. Really amazing to me. TIA

 

[Paul]

I am trying to view and copy everything off of an old PATA 2.5" Conner
240MB hard drive. It is a hard drive from 1993. It has Windows Pen v1.0
which is really MS-DOS 6.2 and Windows 3.1 with pen support. I tried two
different PATA to USB adapters, but no luck. Zentimo (a third party
safely remove utility) sees it is a Conner 240MB drive, but can't see
anything on the drive. Windows XP Manage doesn't see anything.

The hard drive has about 100MB worth of stuff on it that I want to
backup. This should be an easy task. But I guess old IDE drives are not
supported by PATA to USB adapters. I have dozens of machines here and
many of them should be able to read this drive (all laptops). Problem is
that the drive is very large in height. Probably 15mm or higher. And
none of my laptops could accept a drive so high.

I can think of two options:

1) Copy the files on the Windows Pen machine to floppy and transfer
100MB worth that way.

2) Use a serial null modem cable to another machine and transfer files
that way.

Neither option sounds very attractive to me. Both would require lots of
work. Anybody have any other ideas? The Windows Pen machine has two
PCMCIA ports, serial, parallel, and two PS/2 ports. I do have three
PCMCIA 512MB hard drives in storage and it would take me hours to find
them. But I don't think that would work. Because you can't copy Windows
from the running Windows. And DOS can't see those drives. I know Windows
95 can automatically see them, but I don't recall if Windows 3.1 can or
not.

If you are curious, the Windows Pen machine is a Compaq Concerto. I
never heard of them before January. But I have about a dozen Windows
Tablets (I love them) running Windows XP, Windows 7, and 8. And I am
really shocked that a Windows Tablet from '93 had virtually all of the
features of a modern Windows Tablet. It even has a few features that are
not found with modern Tablets. Really amazing to me. TIA

You don't have a NIC card that fits in the expansion slot ?

One article I read some time ago, claimed there were a couple
modes (just slightly faster than PIO), that were removed on
more modern IDE controllers. That drive would need to have those
modes, as its sole option, to be so picky about the controller.

Does regular Windows software run on it ? What hope
do you have, of doing any clever maintenance on the thing,
if there is no software ? That would be my first concern.

Even if you make a backup, what would function to do the restore ?
At that point, you may have to move the IDE drive to a regular
desktop computer, and do the restore there. So at this point,
investigating working on the disk directly, is needed for later
when you want to restore it. If you cannot figure out how to
do that, a backup might not be of much use. (Imagine the Concerto
has no software in a usable state on board - how would you restore
to it ?)

Paul

 

[Paul in Houston TX]

I am trying to view and copy everything off of an old PATA 2.5" Conner
240MB hard drive. It is a hard drive from 1993. It has Windows Pen v1.0
which is really MS-DOS 6.2 and Windows 3.1 with pen support. I tried two
different PATA to USB adapters, but no luck. Zentimo (a third party
safely remove utility) sees it is a Conner 240MB drive, but can't see
anything on the drive. Windows XP Manage doesn't see anything.

I have a 2.5" to 3.5" cable. It works great.
No usb needed, just a ide connector on the computer.
http://www.microcenter.com/product/219555/Hard_Drive_25_to_35_Controller_Adapter
I have not tried hooking my pata to sata converter to it.

 

[BillW50]

In Paul typed:

You don't have a NIC card that fits in the expansion slot ?

Oh sure! But two problems there. You can't copy the OS which is in use.
And DOS (v6.2) can't see it. And the OS is Windows 3.1 and I doubt that
there are any drivers available for any of my cards.

One article I read some time ago, claimed there were a couple
modes (just slightly faster than PIO), that were removed on
more modern IDE controllers. That drive would need to have those
modes, as its sole option, to be so picky about the controller.

I am not surprised about this at all.

Does regular Windows software run on it ? What hope
do you have, of doing any clever maintenance on the thing,
if there is no software ? That would be my first concern.

Any software that runs under DOS v6.xx or Windows 3.x should run fine on
this machine. The only thing that is different is that is supports a pen
and can function as a tablet. You don't have to use it as a pen/tablet
if you don't want too. As it is fully fuctional for DOS and Windows 3.x
too. Nor do I see any reason why Windows 95 couldn't run on it either.

Even if you make a backup, what would function to do the restore ?

I have seen these for sale from time to time and none of them has the
OS, but a wiped hard drive. So having a fully functioning one appears to
be really rare. The hardware seems to be very stable and probably will
last for decades (they are already 20 years old). But the software part
appears to be very rare and needs to be preserved and backed up.

At that point, you may have to move the IDE drive to a regular
desktop computer, and do the restore there. So at this point,
investigating working on the disk directly, is needed for later
when you want to restore it. If you cannot figure out how to
do that, a backup might not be of much use. (Imagine the Concerto
has no software in a usable state on board - how would you restore
to it ?)

One could still find functioning Concertos, so that isn't a problem. The
problem appears to be finding one with functioning OS for it. So
preserving the OS is the most important thing to do. Sure you could just
put DOS on them, or add Windows 3.1x, and I think Windows 95 should work
too (Windows 98 might be too much for it). But without pen support they
are not special at all.

 

[BillW50]

In Ghostrider" < typed:

Not sure why the PATA-to-USB adapter is not working. I have converted
many 2.5" and 3.5" PATA drives,

Me too! Although this appears to be different.

including Conners,

Wow you have heard of Conners? I remember hearing about them in the
early 90's and then nothing more.

with my WiebeTech USB Drivedock.

If I could find one and it could read a Conner CFN250A, that would be
great! ;-)

Your Conner 2.5" drive uses the standard 40-pin IDE pinouts?

Yes, it plugged in just fine. All other PATA 2.5" drives I have used in
the past will power down when you remove them under Windows with the
PATA to USB adapter under XP. This one didn't (the drive kept spinning).
I know this is an early IDE drive and not EIDE (Enhanced IDE) drive.
This might be why my two PATA to USB adapters can't read it. Except
telling me what kind of drive it is.

 

[Ken Springer]

I am trying to view and copy everything off of an old PATA 2.5" Conner
240MB hard drive. It is a hard drive from 1993. It has Windows Pen v1.0
which is really MS-DOS 6.2 and Windows 3.1 with pen support. I tried two
different PATA to USB adapters, but no luck. Zentimo (a third party
safely remove utility) sees it is a Conner 240MB drive, but can't see
anything on the drive. Windows XP Manage doesn't see anything.

The hard drive has about 100MB worth of stuff on it that I want to
backup. This should be an easy task. But I guess old IDE drives are not
supported by PATA to USB adapters. I have dozens of machines here and
many of them should be able to read this drive (all laptops). Problem is
that the drive is very large in height. Probably 15mm or higher. And
none of my laptops could accept a drive so high.

I can think of two options:

1) Copy the files on the Windows Pen machine to floppy and transfer
100MB worth that way.

2) Use a serial null modem cable to another machine and transfer files
that way.

Neither option sounds very attractive to me. Both would require lots of
work. Anybody have any other ideas? The Windows Pen machine has two
PCMCIA ports, serial, parallel, and two PS/2 ports. I do have three
PCMCIA 512MB hard drives in storage and it would take me hours to find
them. But I don't think that would work. Because you can't copy Windows
from the running Windows. And DOS can't see those drives. I know Windows
95 can automatically see them, but I don't recall if Windows 3.1 can or
not.

If you are curious, the Windows Pen machine is a Compaq Concerto. I
never heard of them before January. But I have about a dozen Windows
Tablets (I love them) running Windows XP, Windows 7, and 8. And I am
really shocked that a Windows Tablet from '93 had virtually all of the
features of a modern Windows Tablet. It even has a few features that are
not found with modern Tablets. Really amazing to me. TIA

What have you got to lose by trying a couple Linux Live CD's?

As for old hard drives, I've got a 5.25" Quantum Bigfoot on the shelf,
just keep it to marvel at how things have gotten smaller over the years.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.3
Firefox 20.0
Thunderbird 17.0.5
LibreOffice 4.0.1.2

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

I am trying to view and copy everything off of an old PATA 2.5"
Conner 240MB hard drive. It is a hard drive from 1993. It has Windows
Pen v1.0 which is really MS-DOS 6.2 and Windows 3.1 with pen support. []
I can think of two options:
1) Copy the files on the Windows Pen machine to floppy and transfer
100MB worth that way.
2) Use a serial null modem cable to another machine and transfer
files that way.
Neither option sounds very attractive to me. Both would require lots
of work. Anybody have any other ideas? The Windows Pen machine has
two PCMCIA ports, serial, parallel, and two PS/2 ports. I do have

[/QUOTE]

Might be worth looking into LAPLINK; I _think_ that ran under DOS,
though it's a long time since I played with it! It _could_ work over a
serial link, though very slowly, or via a parallel port (though needed a
special cable).
[]

If you are curious, the Windows Pen machine is a Compaq Concerto. I
never heard of them before January. But I have about a dozen Windows
Tablets (I love them) running Windows XP, Windows 7, and 8. And I am
really shocked that a Windows Tablet from '93 had virtually all of the
features of a modern Windows Tablet. It even has a few features that
are not found with modern Tablets. Really amazing to me. TIA

[]
Does regular Windows software run on it ? What hope
do you have, of doing any clever maintenance on the thing,
if there is no software ? That would be my first concern.

I think that's why Paul (?) is trying to back it up!

Even if you make a backup, what would function to do the restore ?

I suppose that depends on the BIOS. One would hope that, if he'd backed
it up to another 2.5" drive, he could just plug that in. But if the BIOS
uses some obscure file system and can only do so, then it is indeed a
risk.
[]
(Oh, and Bill - you said 95 but probably not 98; I _think_ 98lite can be
as undemanding of resources as 95, since it uses the smaller [and more
stable!] '95 shell, while giving you most of the better aspects [such as
better USB support] that '98 gave you.)

 

[Paul]

I think it should be noted that while assisting (e-mail address removed)
(Robert) with trying to copy data from an older system to a newer system
via a SATA/IDE to USB adapter I ran some tests.

This was with a WD Caviar 2.1GB HD.
http://multi-av.thespykiller.co.uk/other/Ext_HD.jpg

The system would see drive but could not work with the drive. It saw it
as a 1.9GB drive that was not initiated. No matter what I set the CS/MA
IDE jumper to or what USB port the adapter waa on, I could see the drive
in Device Manager and Disk Management but the OS would not assign a
drive letter and I could not read nor format the drive.

I have another IDE interface that is both USB2.0 and Firewire and
connectyed the drive to it with the SAME results.

I guess there are some older IDE drives that just don't work as expected
with newer hardware.

Set to "Single", all jumpers removed ?

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/legacy/Legacy.asp?Model=AC21200

"Transfer Rate (Buffer to Host) 16.6 MB/s (Mode 2 DMA)
16.6 MB/s (Mode 4 PIO)"

You could also try PTEDIT32 and see if it can read the MBR at all.

ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_canada/tools/pq/utilities/PTEDIT32.zip

Paul