Trojan protection

B

Boris Dynin

Hi,

What's the best way to protect W2k/XP from trojans? Considering amount of IE
vulnerabilities, this question seems relevant to me.
In particular, is it practical to run Windows using low-privilege (Users
group) account?
Is it practical to disable write access to directories other than My
Documents for that user account?
Will it prevent trojans from being installed?
Will utilities, for example Norton Antivirus work under those conditions?

Thanks,
Boris
 
L

luc wastiaux

Boris said:
Hi,

What's the best way to protect W2k/XP from trojans? Considering amount of IE
vulnerabilities, this question seems relevant to me.
In particular, is it practical to run Windows using low-privilege (Users
group) account?
Is it practical to disable write access to directories other than My
Documents for that user account?
Will it prevent trojans from being installed?

first of all, if you are the least bit concerned about viruses and
trojans, you should stop using microsoft clients (ie, outlook) and use
firebird and thunderbird instead.

These two will also work without a problem when run under a normal user
account. I use normal user accounts for everyday use, and in some cases
you have to allow write access to certain files in program files, or
else some programs won't work. I use sysinternal's ntfilemon to
troubleshoot the access problems.
Will utilities, for example Norton Antivirus work under those conditions?

yes they should. NOD32 works without a problem for instance.
 
K

Karl Levinson [x y] mvp

What's the best way to protect W2k/XP from trojans? Considering amount of IE
vulnerabilities, this question seems relevant to me.

Most viruses and trojans don't bother to use any IE vulnerabilities or
vulnerabilities at all, and I don't believe IE is the most common method for
them to enter the PC either.

The best way is to use antivirus software configured to download the latest
updates every week or so automatically, as well as personal firewall
software or other kind of firewall that monitors outbound connections and
tells you which executable is generating them. www.kerio.com and
www.sygate.com are free firewalls, www.grisoft.com is free antivirus.

Most trojans BTW fade out very quickly by themselves [unless they have the
ability to replicate, in which case they are really part of a virus or worm,
or unless someone is able to install the trojan as part of a web site or
software package].
In particular, is it practical to run Windows using low-privilege (Users
group) account?

It may be a good idea to do so for OTHER reasons. But my two cents, this
step would protected you from few if any of the trojans out there. User
permissions is not very effective anti-virus or anti-trojan. If you choose
to do this, do it for other reasons as well, such as if you want to control
what the USERS can do or install to their computers... and be prepared for a
possible increase in support help phone calls.

Do note two things: if the users are in the local Administrators group,
they can undo anything you can do to try to control them. And, no matter
what you do, it does make sense to try to control access to certain key
executables such as CMD.EXE and TFTP.EXE and FTP.EXE using permissions.
[Although you would also probably want to remove the System permission for
those executables as well... and if those files are replaced by a future
patch or service pack, the permissions might be reset.] These files are
accessible to ordinary users and Trojans by default [though a trojan could
theoretically contain its own TFTP functionality anyways]. A list of the
executable files you should consider protecting in this way can be found in
www.google.com or www.microsoft.com/technet/security

It is true that running as a normal User prevents may prevent programs from
making themselve start up again when the computer reboots, by preventing
writes to the Run value in the registry and possibly the Startup folders
under \Documents and Settings\. It won't prevent the trojan from being
downloaded by, say, a web browser and being run in the first place, nor
would it prevent a combination trojan / worm or trojan / virus from then
attacking other computers. In this instance, a reboot would prevent the
trojan / worm / virus from reloading itself automatically when Windows
reboots, but in the case of something like Welchia, the computer gets
re-infected soon after reboot from the other infected computers on the
network, so in such a case you gained little.
Is it practical to disable write access to directories other than My
Documents for that user account?
Will it prevent trojans from being installed?
Will utilities, for example Norton Antivirus work under those conditions?

Ditto. If the user can browse the internet, then a trojan can save itself
and run.
 
C

Chuck

Hi,

What's the best way to protect W2k/XP from trojans? Considering amount of IE
vulnerabilities, this question seems relevant to me.
In particular, is it practical to run Windows using low-privilege (Users
group) account?
Is it practical to disable write access to directories other than My
Documents for that user account?
Will it prevent trojans from being installed?
Will utilities, for example Norton Antivirus work under those conditions?

Thanks,
Boris

Boris,

Running a non-admin account routinely is a very good start. Virus
detection / protection, religiously updates and used, is another.
There are additional precautions you can take too.

Harden your browser. Check browser security using any of these
websites:
http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/BrowserSecurity/
http://bcheck.scanit.be/bcheck/sid-9243cad8469ced8b9a34772f54aa4da5/index.php
https://testzone.secunia.com/browser_checker/

Consider using another browser other than IE for accessing dodgy
websites. Both Mozilla and Opera are more secure than IE. Only use
IE for secure and trusted websites like WindowsUpdate, or online
banking.

Get Spyware detection and protection. Both AdAware
(http://www.lavasoftusa.com/) and Spybot S&D
(http://www.tomcoyote.org/SPYBOT/) are free, and both offer realtime
protection (AdAware charges for the version with this). Keep spyware
detection up to date (online updates) and use it regularly, just as
you do virus detection. Also HijackThis
(http://www.tomcoyote.org/hjt/), which looks for spyware in a
different way, for which you need expert advice, instructions in this
article:
http://forums.spywareinfo.com/index.php?showtopic=5187

Do you access the internet from behind a router? You should. NAT
routers are affordable, and are available for all access to the
internet. Best to get one with a reliable firewall log, such as the
Linksys BEFSX41:
(http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?grid=34&scid=29&prid=433).

Know what websites you access. Check your firewall log regularly,
looking for unexpected entries.

Get Port Explorer
(http://www.diamondcs.com.au/portexplorer/index.php?page=home) and
Process Explorer (http://www.sysinternals.com/) (both free). The
first lets you identify what addresses are being accesses (complements
your firewall log), the second lets you find out details about what
programs are running on your computer.

Keep your system up to date. Here's where you have to trust
Microsoft, they release critical patches monthly now. Apply what they
recommend.

Stay informed. Know what the current security risks are. Usenet is a
good start. There are numerous security newsletters and websites too.
Here are two, out of probably hundreds:
http://isc.sans.org/
http://iase.disa.mil/ianews.html

Stay anonymous. You're posting thru the Sonic Typhoon news server. I
use Newscene, which doesn't post your ip address.

Cheers,

Chuck
I hate spam - PLEASE get rid of the spam before emailing me!
Paranoia comes from experience - and is not necessarily a bad thing.
 
B

Boris Dynin

The best way is to use antivirus software configured to download the latest
updates every week or so automatically, as well as personal firewall
software or other kind of firewall that monitors outbound connections and
tells you which executable is generating them. www.kerio.com and
www.sygate.com are free firewalls, www.grisoft.com is free antivirus.

I have small LAN connected to Internet via DSL. It's protected from Internet
by NAT routers. However, hosts on LAN have Windows networking services
running; I consider it safe because the routers block all ports (for
in-bound connections). However, if I installed software firewall on
individual hosts, Windows networking would be blocked (or firewall would ask
me dozens of times whether I want to allow network access). Software
firewall is good approach for single system, not for LAN.

Boris
Most trojans BTW fade out very quickly by themselves [unless they have the
ability to replicate, in which case they are really part of a virus or worm,
or unless someone is able to install the trojan as part of a web site or
software package].
In particular, is it practical to run Windows using low-privilege (Users
group) account?

It may be a good idea to do so for OTHER reasons. But my two cents, this
step would protected you from few if any of the trojans out there. User
permissions is not very effective anti-virus or anti-trojan. If you choose
to do this, do it for other reasons as well, such as if you want to control
what the USERS can do or install to their computers... and be prepared for a
possible increase in support help phone calls.

Do note two things: if the users are in the local Administrators group,
they can undo anything you can do to try to control them. And, no matter
what you do, it does make sense to try to control access to certain key
executables such as CMD.EXE and TFTP.EXE and FTP.EXE using permissions.
[Although you would also probably want to remove the System permission for
those executables as well... and if those files are replaced by a future
patch or service pack, the permissions might be reset.] These files are
accessible to ordinary users and Trojans by default [though a trojan could
theoretically contain its own TFTP functionality anyways]. A list of the
executable files you should consider protecting in this way can be found in
www.google.com or www.microsoft.com/technet/security
I use CMD.EXE pretty often. I would be inconvenient for me to allow access
to it only for admin account.
 
B

Boris Dynin

Is XP more secure than W2k? XP has built-in firewall software, but it only
blocks in-bound connections. Will the situation change with SP2 (for XP):
will the firewall be more functional?

Boris
Karl Levinson [x y] mvp said:
What's the best way to protect W2k/XP from trojans? Considering amount
of
IE
vulnerabilities, this question seems relevant to me.

Most viruses and trojans don't bother to use any IE vulnerabilities or
vulnerabilities at all, and I don't believe IE is the most common method for
them to enter the PC either.

The best way is to use antivirus software configured to download the latest
updates every week or so automatically, as well as personal firewall
software or other kind of firewall that monitors outbound connections and
tells you which executable is generating them. www.kerio.com and
www.sygate.com are free firewalls, www.grisoft.com is free antivirus.

Most trojans BTW fade out very quickly by themselves [unless they have the
ability to replicate, in which case they are really part of a virus or worm,
or unless someone is able to install the trojan as part of a web site or
software package].
In particular, is it practical to run Windows using low-privilege (Users
group) account?

It may be a good idea to do so for OTHER reasons. But my two cents, this
step would protected you from few if any of the trojans out there. User
permissions is not very effective anti-virus or anti-trojan. If you choose
to do this, do it for other reasons as well, such as if you want to control
what the USERS can do or install to their computers... and be prepared for a
possible increase in support help phone calls.

Do note two things: if the users are in the local Administrators group,
they can undo anything you can do to try to control them. And, no matter
what you do, it does make sense to try to control access to certain key
executables such as CMD.EXE and TFTP.EXE and FTP.EXE using permissions.
[Although you would also probably want to remove the System permission for
those executables as well... and if those files are replaced by a future
patch or service pack, the permissions might be reset.] These files are
accessible to ordinary users and Trojans by default [though a trojan could
theoretically contain its own TFTP functionality anyways]. A list of the
executable files you should consider protecting in this way can be found in
www.google.com or www.microsoft.com/technet/security

It is true that running as a normal User prevents may prevent programs from
making themselve start up again when the computer reboots, by preventing
writes to the Run value in the registry and possibly the Startup folders
under \Documents and Settings\. It won't prevent the trojan from being
downloaded by, say, a web browser and being run in the first place, nor
would it prevent a combination trojan / worm or trojan / virus from then
attacking other computers. In this instance, a reboot would prevent the
trojan / worm / virus from reloading itself automatically when Windows
reboots, but in the case of something like Welchia, the computer gets
re-infected soon after reboot from the other infected computers on the
network, so in such a case you gained little.
Is it practical to disable write access to directories other than My
Documents for that user account?
Will it prevent trojans from being installed?
Will utilities, for example Norton Antivirus work under those
conditions?

Ditto. If the user can browse the internet, then a trojan can save itself
and run.
 
B

Boris Dynin

Thanks,

Unfortunately replacing IE, e-mail client isn't an option in my case.
However, I appreciate you sharing your experience using non-admin account.
Thanks.

Boris
 
B

Boris Dynin

Thanks for all the resources!
Unfortunately, I can't always follow best practices because I use my systems
for software development/testing: it would be difficult for me to switch to
using non-admin account unless it's absolutely necessary.
However, I'll try to use advice/resources from your post whenever possible.

Boris
 
C

Chuck

Thanks for all the resources!
Unfortunately, I can't always follow best practices because I use my systems
for software development/testing: it would be difficult for me to switch to
using non-admin account unless it's absolutely necessary.
However, I'll try to use advice/resources from your post whenever possible.

Boris,

I know where you're coming from there. With most folks, the simplest
solution is frequently the hardest to implement.

A layered security strategy is the best solution. Not the simplest,
but if one layer breaks, the others are there to keep you safe.

Cheers,

Chuck
I hate spam - PLEASE get rid of the spam before emailing me!
Paranoia comes from experience - and is not necessarily a bad thing.
 

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