Trojan horse Downloader.Generic.ML

[Ron Reaugh]

It's the file C:\NULL

Suddenly shortly after cold boot my fully updated(WinUp) and patched W98se
PC reported the above noted infection. It's Grisoft free AVG with the
latest updates. This PC is also protected by ZoneAlarm, Belkin WiFi router
with firewall, SpyBot(resident). A normal Shutdown was done 12 hours
earlier with no indication of any problems. There are still no indications
of any problems EXCEPT that AVG claims it's found this trojan. There have
been no floppy operations/mounts, no CD operations/mounts and no downloads
and installs of anything since an hour before shutdown last night and now.

From the DOS prompt I can see a file C:\NULL that has a 5/5/05 date. Since
5/5 both a full manual AVG and Trend HouseCall 6 run have been done on this
PC finding nothing.

So where and how did this file C:\NULL that AVG claims is Trojan horse
Downloader.Generic.ML appear from? Was it really there since 5/5 but went
unnoticed by both AVG and Trend HouseCall 6 and then this morning AVG
suddenly downloaded a new definition file which started seeing this trojan?
OR did something penetrate all the firewalls and suddenly spawn this file
which AVG quickly recognized?

What likely happened here?

The operation I was in the middle of when AVG popped up was reading a text
only no attachment NG message in OE 6.00.2800.1123.

 

[Eric Parker]

It's the file C:\NULL

Suddenly shortly after cold boot my fully updated(WinUp) and patched W98se
PC reported the above noted infection. It's Grisoft free AVG with the
latest updates. This PC is also protected by ZoneAlarm, Belkin WiFi router
with firewall, SpyBot(resident). A normal Shutdown was done 12 hours
earlier with no indication of any problems. There are still no indications
of any problems EXCEPT that AVG claims it's found this trojan. There have
been no floppy operations/mounts, no CD operations/mounts and no downloads
and installs of anything since an hour before shutdown last night and now.

From the DOS prompt I can see a file C:\NULL that has a 5/5/05 date. Since
5/5 both a full manual AVG and Trend HouseCall 6 run have been done on this
PC finding nothing.

So where and how did this file C:\NULL that AVG claims is Trojan horse
Downloader.Generic.ML appear from? Was it really there since 5/5 but went
unnoticed by both AVG and Trend HouseCall 6 and then this morning AVG
suddenly downloaded a new definition file which started seeing this trojan?
OR did something penetrate all the firewalls and suddenly spawn this file
which AVG quickly recognized?

What likely happened here?

The operation I was in the middle of when AVG popped up was reading a text
only no attachment NG message in OE 6.00.2800.1123.

If you're doubting AVG, you could submit the file to www.virustotal.com.
That would give you a lots of opinions on it.
As to how it got there, I can't help.

eric

eric

 

[Ron Reaugh]

If you're doubting AVG,

NO, I'm not doubting AVG at all. The file c:\null didn't belong there and
came from some unknown source and I assume that in fact is a trojan. What I
can't understand is how and when it got there unnoticed until this AM?? I
thought I'd taken all the extra precautions and kept very current and then
all of the sudden from left field this AVG warning appears at a time and
circumstance that does NOT correspond to when I'd expect such a thing to
have happened.

FURTHER I was under the impression that most all the current virus checker
companies were really on top of things and got out protection(new def files)
within hours or at most a day from when something new was found in the wild.
I find it highly unlikely that I'm some special case that got this infection
only or long before anyone else. If one believes the 5/5/05 date on c:\null
then that suggests that this thing has been out in the wild for over a month
when AVG just this AM suddenly updated the def file to include its
detection. Also Trend Housecall 6 didn't find it if you believe the 5/5/05
date.

How did this all come to pass. Do I have some misconceptions somewhere
regarding these issues? I thought I had all my bases covered and then this.
What should I start doing differently? Are virus/trojan files ever put of
folks HD and then change their own dates back in time; has that ever been
seen?

you could submit the file to www.virustotal.com.

AVG zapped it already.

 

[Ron Reaugh]

Google web/groups doesn't show any hits on "downloader.generic.ml" so this
may be something really NEW!

 

[Jason Edwards]

It's the file C:\NULL

Suddenly shortly after cold boot my fully updated(WinUp) and patched W98se
PC reported the above noted infection. It's Grisoft free AVG with the
latest updates. This PC is also protected by ZoneAlarm, Belkin WiFi router
with firewall, SpyBot(resident).

And do you use Internet Explorer?

A normal Shutdown was done 12 hours
earlier with no indication of any problems.

There wouldn't be.
If something did sneak in via an IE or some other vulnerability then it
would most likely not run until the next startup.

There are still no indications
of any problems EXCEPT that AVG claims it's found this trojan.

Sounds like an indication of a problem to me.
A false detection is a possibility but there is no way for me to be certain.

There have
been no floppy operations/mounts, no CD operations/mounts and no downloads
and installs of anything since an hour before shutdown last night and now.

But you did surf with Internet Explorer?

From the DOS prompt I can see a file C:\NULL that has a 5/5/05 date. Since
5/5 both a full manual AVG and Trend HouseCall 6 run have been done on this
PC finding nothing.

So where and how did this file C:\NULL that AVG claims is Trojan horse
Downloader.Generic.ML appear from? Was it really there since 5/5 but went
unnoticed by both AVG and Trend HouseCall 6 and then this morning AVG
suddenly downloaded a new definition file which started seeing this

trojan?

Virus scanners don't have any magical ability to detect trojans, they have
to be told what is a trojan and what isn't via the updates. An anti-virus
vendor may manage to do an update in less that a day if the virus/trojan is
all over the news but it may otherwise take longer. Trojan writers are not
under any obligation to send copies of their trojans to anti-virus vendors.

OR did something penetrate all the firewalls and suddenly spawn this file
which AVG quickly recognized?

I have no idea where C:\NULL came from but if it were on my PC I would want
to know what it was.
If I was sitting at the PC which had C:\NULL on it then I'd look in C:\NULL
to see what was there.
I'd also find out whether anything in there was referenced during startup.
For that I'd need spybot S&D in advanced mode or http://www.hijackthis.de/
or just regedit.

What likely happened here?

Impossible to say. One possibility is that you got something via an
unpatched IE vulnerability. Another is that AVG is/was giving a false
detection. Another is that I don't have a clue what happened.

The operation I was in the middle of when AVG popped up was reading a text
only no attachment NG message in OE 6.00.2800.1123.

Did this message contain a link/url that you happened to click on?

Jason

 

[Ron Reaugh]

And do you use Internet Explorer?

Yep, the very latest and fully patched/WinUp-ed version.

There wouldn't be.
If something did sneak in via an IE or some other vulnerability then it
would most likely not run until the next startup.

Are you saying that AVG's resident and SpyBots resident(watching reg
updates) wouldn't have caught it at the time of infection?

Sounds like an indication of a problem to me.
A false detection is a possibility but there is no way for me to be

certain.

That c:\null IS a bogus file from an unknown source suggests that there was
no false detection.

now.

But you did surf with Internet Explorer?

Yep and other than the possibility that you are a FireFox drum beater, the
use of a fully updated IE generally does NOT expose one to such when a fully
functional firewall, virus checker and spyware checker are in place.

trojan?

Virus scanners don't have any magical ability to detect trojans, they have
to be told what is a trojan and what isn't via the updates.

Right but 5/5/05 is over 30 days old...am I some special case alpha
infection point?

An anti-virus
vendor may manage to do an update in less that a day if the virus/trojan is
all over the news but it may otherwise take longer. Trojan writers are not
under any obligation to send copies of their trojans to anti-virus vendors.

I have no idea where C:\NULL came from but if it were on my PC I would want
to know what it was.
If I was sitting at the PC which had C:\NULL on it then I'd look in C:\NULL
to see what was there.

After one noticed it. I don't inspect c:\ or c:\win or c:\win\system[32]
hourly to spot undesirable files. That's what I got AVG etc. for.

I'd also find out whether anything in there was referenced during startup.
For that I'd need spybot S&D in advanced mode or http://www.hijackthis.de/
or just regedit.


Impossible to say. One possibility is that you got something via an
unpatched IE vulnerability.

I was under the impression that there weren't any of these that have
resulted in actual infections any time recently. Lots of new
vulnerabilities keep being found and reported and fixed. And that's all
before there is any infections/penetrations using them and that's what I've
been hearing for over a year.

Another is that AVG is/was giving a false
detection. Another is that I don't have a clue what happened.


Did this message contain a link/url that you happened to click on?

NOPE! I assume that the NG message reading had nothing to do with it but
then what did??

 

[Jim Byrd]

Hi Ron - You might want to download and run the free or trial version of A2
Personal, here: http://www.emsisoft.com/en/ UPDATE, then run from a Clean
Boot or Safe Mode with Show Hidden Files enabled. This is a MUCH better
piece of software for detecting Trojans than AVG.

Directions for a Clean Boot and Show Hidden Files in my Blog, addy in
Signature.

 

[Ron Reaugh]

Hi Ron - You might want to download and run the free or trial version of A2
Personal, here: http://www.emsisoft.com/en/ UPDATE, then run from a Clean
Boot or Safe Mode with Show Hidden Files enabled.
This is a MUCH better
piece of software for detecting Trojans than AVG.

Why would AVG or Trend HouseCall 6 be weak in this regard?

 

[Jason Edwards]

Yep, the very latest and fully patched/WinUp-ed version.

Ok, so it's probably only got approximately n+100 vulnerabilities left to be
patched.

Are you saying that AVG's resident and SpyBots resident(watching reg
updates) wouldn't have caught it at the time of infection?
Yes

certain.

That c:\null IS a bogus file from an unknown source suggests that there was
no false detection.

It does, if you are sure that C:\NULL is not part of anything legitimate or
anything you have done yourself.

Yep and other than the possibility that you are a FireFox drum beater, the
use of a fully updated IE generally does NOT expose one to such when a fully
functional firewall, virus checker and spyware checker are in place.

I don't wish to upset you but it took me a while to stop laughing after
reading that.

Right but 5/5/05 is over 30 days old...am I some special case alpha
infection point?

Nope, you're just an average Windows user who got the trojan that wasn't
widespread enough to be noticed immediately.

An anti-virus
vendor may manage to do an update in less that a day if the virus/trojan is
all over the news but it may otherwise take longer. Trojan writers are not
under any obligation to send copies of their trojans to anti-virus vendors.

I have no idea where C:\NULL came from but if it were on my PC I would want
to know what it was.
If I was sitting at the PC which had C:\NULL on it then I'd look in C:\NULL
to see what was there.

After one noticed it. I don't inspect c:\ or c:\win or c:\win\system[32]
hourly to spot undesirable files. That's what I got AVG etc. for.

I don't either, but I don't allow additional executable files on to the
system in the first place, so I don't have to go file spotting very often on
my own machines. I also don't need AVG.

I was under the impression that there weren't any of these that have
resulted in actual infections any time recently. Lots of new
vulnerabilities keep being found and reported and fixed. And that's all
before there is any infections/penetrations using them and that's what I've
been hearing for over a year.

Who have you been hearing this from?
Ask yourself why there is a cumulative update every month.

NOPE! I assume that the NG message reading had nothing to do with it but
then what did??

It is not possible for me to say for certain what did.

If I were you I'd wipe the drive and reinstall the operating system.
There is no other way to be sure that your system isn't compromised.

Jason

 

[Roger Wilco]

It's the file C:\NULL

Suddenly shortly after cold boot my fully updated(WinUp) and patched W98se
PC reported the above noted infection. It's Grisoft free AVG with the
latest updates. This PC is also protected by ZoneAlarm, Belkin WiFi router
with firewall, SpyBot(resident). A normal Shutdown was done 12 hours
earlier with no indication of any problems. There are still no indications
of any problems EXCEPT that AVG claims it's found this trojan. There have
been no floppy operations/mounts, no CD operations/mounts and no downloads
and installs of anything since an hour before shutdown last night and now.

From the DOS prompt I can see a file C:\NULL that has a 5/5/05 date. Since
5/5 both a full manual AVG and Trend HouseCall 6 run have been done on this
PC finding nothing.

So where and how did this file C:\NULL that AVG claims is Trojan horse
Downloader.Generic.ML appear from?

New malware can download and use old malware. Just a shot in the dark,
what else do you have with that date?

Was it really there since 5/5 but went
unnoticed by both AVG and Trend HouseCall 6 and then this morning AVG
suddenly downloaded a new definition file which started seeing this

trojan?

Possible. Or it could be a false positive. Without the evidence we can't
know.

OR did something penetrate all the firewalls and suddenly spawn this file
which AVG quickly recognized?

Also possible.

What likely happened here?

Without analysing the file "NULL", and or finding other malware files to
analyse - it is anybody's guess.

The operation I was in the middle of when AVG popped up was reading a text
only no attachment NG message in OE 6.00.2800.1123.

This may be paranoia at work here, but new malware could download many
things undetected at present and throw you a bone (like an old trojan)
to make you think your defenses are adequate and have protected you.
Maybe other things have been date altered to 5/5/5 as well - or looking
at 5/5/5 dated files will jar your memory about what "NULL" is (or was).

 

[Jim Byrd]

Hi Ron - A2 is designed specifically to detect Trojans. The only _virus_
scanner I'm aware of that offers comparable _Trojan_ detection is SysClean.
From my Blog:


Boot to Safe mode with Network Support (HowTo here:
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/docid/2001052409420406)
or a Clean Boot as above.

Download sysclean.com , from Trend Micro, here:
http://www.trendmicro.com/download/dcs.asp along with the latest released
pattern file, here: http://www.trendmicro.com/download/pattern.asp Be sure
to read the "How-to" info here:
http://www.trendmicro.com/ftp/products/tsc/readme.txt

You might also want to get Art's updater, SYS-UP.Zip, here for future
updating of these: http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg/). The updater files plus a
short tutorial on using them and SysClean are also available in one package
here: http://www.ik-cs.com/Programs/virtools/SYSCLEAN UTILITY.exe (If you
download and use the updater from the beginning, it will automatically
handle downloading the other files.)

An alternative automatic updater which adds some capabilities to Art's
updater, such as restarting in Safe mode to run, etc., SYSCLEAN_FE , is
available here: http://www.ik-cs.com/programs/virtools/Sysclean_FE.exe.
There's a brief description here: http://www.ik-cs.com/more_information.htm.
I would recommend that you use Clean Boot with either updater, however.

NOTE: You can get a somewhat more current interim pattern file, the
Controlled Pattern Release, here and manually unzip it to your SysClean
folder: http://www.trendmicro.com/download/pattern-cpr-disclaimer.asp Look
for the lptxxx.zip file after you agree to the terms. (Sorry, but the
Updaters won't go get this one for you. However, if you manually download
the CPR first and then use one of the updaters, SysClean will automatically
use these CPR definitions when it starts.)

Place them in a dedicated folder after appropriate unzipping.

Show hidden and system files (HowTo here:
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/docid/2002092715262339)

If you're using WindowsME or WindowsXP, SysClean (and the other cleaning
tools below) may find infections within Restore Points which it will be
unable to clean. You may choose to disable Restore if you're on XP or ME
(directions here:
http://vil.nai.com/vil/SystemHelpDocs/DisableSysRestore.htm) which will
eliminate ALL previous Restore Points, or alternatively, you can wait until
cleaning is completed and then use the procedure within the *********'s
below to delete all older, possibly infected Restore Points and save a new,
clean one. This approach is in the sprit of "keep what you've got" so that
you can recover to an at least operating albeit infected system if you
inadvertently delete something vital, and is the approach I recommend that
you take.

Read tscreadme.txt carefully, then do a complete scan of your system and
clean or delete anything it finds.
Reboot and re-run SysClean and continue this procedure until you get a clean
scan or nothing further can be cleaned/removed.

Now reboot to normal mode and re-run the scan again.

This scan may take a long time, as Sysclean is VERY extensive and thorough.
For example, one user reported that Sysclean found 69 hits that an
immediately prior Norton AV v. 11.0.2.4 run had missed.

 

[mhicaoidh]

Taking a moment's reflection, Ron Reaugh mused:
|
| NO, I'm not doubting AVG at all. The file c:\null didn't belong
| there and came from some unknown source and I assume that in fact is
| a trojan. What I can't understand is how and when it got there
| unnoticed until this AM??

My guess would be that when it ws put there, AVG didn't have a
definition for it. Sometime between now and then, the definition was
added, and now AVG can detect it. It could also be a false positive.

 

[Ron Reaugh]

Ok, so it's probably only got approximately n+100 vulnerabilities left to be
patched.

Maybe but do you have any evidence that any of these has been actually used
in a penetration recently? OR are they all just potential?

Yes

Why? If that's not what they're lookin for then what are they lookin for?

It does, if you are sure that C:\NULL is not part of anything legitimate or
anything you have done yourself.

I'm sure. You ever heard of c:\null?

I don't wish to upset you but it took me a while to stop laughing after
reading that.

Provide some references that suggest that is not the usual and EFFECTIVE
model?

Nope, you're just an average Windows user who got the trojan that wasn't
widespread enough to be noticed immediately.

I find that unlikely but barely possible.

An anti-virus
vendor may manage to do an update in less that a day if the

virus/trojan
is

all over the news but it may otherwise take longer. Trojan writers are not
under any obligation to send copies of their trojans to anti-virus vendors.

OR did something penetrate all the firewalls and suddenly spawn this file
which AVG quickly recognized?

I have no idea where C:\NULL came from but if it were on my PC I would want
to know what it was.
If I was sitting at the PC which had C:\NULL on it then I'd look in C:\NULL
to see what was there.

After one noticed it. I don't inspect c:\ or c:\win or c:\win\system[32]
hourly to spot undesirable files. That's what I got AVG etc. for.

I don't either, but I don't allow additional executable files on to the
system in the first place, so I don't have to go file spotting very often on
my own machines. I also don't need AVG.

I was under the impression that there weren't any of these that have
resulted in actual infections any time recently. Lots of new
vulnerabilities keep being found and reported and fixed. And that's all
before there is any infections/penetrations using them and that's what I've
been hearing for over a year.

Who have you been hearing this from?

Where have you been hearing the other from?

Ask yourself why there is a cumulative update every month.

YES, please do so. Have you been reading about the intense preemptive work
going on to find the holes before the hackers. From what I've heard that's
been effective down to with a day or two for the last year or two.
References otherwise?

It is not possible for me to say for certain what did.

If I were you I'd wipe the drive and reinstall the operating system.
Clueless!

There is no other way to be sure that your system isn't compromised.

Now you've established your credentials.

 

[Ron Reaugh]

Taking a moment's reflection, Ron Reaugh mused:
|
| NO, I'm not doubting AVG at all. The file c:\null didn't belong
| there and came from some unknown source and I assume that in fact is
| a trojan. What I can't understand is how and when it got there
| unnoticed until this AM??

My guess would be that when it ws put there, AVG didn't have a
definition for it. Sometime between now and then, the definition was
added, and now AVG can detect it. It could also be a false positive.

My thinking exactly. c:\null IS a foreign and uninvited file so it's not a
false positive even if the file contains all binary zeroes<g>.

My understanding is that actually encountering something before one's virus
checker has it in the def file is a rather unusual occurence. HOWEVER also
my understanding is that between a virus checker(AVG), SpyBot and ZoneAlarm
that nothing should be able to arbitrarily go out and put some file named
c:\null in the root directory regardless of any def file entry. Am I
missing something here?

 

[Roger Wilco]

positive.

My thinking exactly. c:\null IS a foreign and uninvited file so it's not a
false positive even if the file contains all binary zeroes<g>.

It would still be a false positive, albeit a welcome one.

My understanding is that actually encountering something before one's virus
checker has it in the def file is a rather unusual occurence.

Generally they have to affect a number of users before it comes to the
attention of the virus fighters.

HOWEVER also
my understanding is that between a virus checker(AVG), SpyBot and ZoneAlarm
that nothing should be able to arbitrarily go out and put some file named
c:\null in the root directory regardless of any def file entry. Am I
missing something here?

Yes, virus checkers generally don't prevent the creation of files, they
only scan on-access (usually on opening the file). For instance if for
some reason your system configuration allows sharing of the root
directory (not a good thing), none of the measures you mention will have
any affect on the creation of a file in the root directory. Only when
accessed next will the AV scan it - and having no extension makes it
hard to have it in any include/exclude by extension config file.

It is really too bad the file is not available for further scrutiny.

You are right that such a file suddenly appearing raises suspicion.

 

[Roger Wilco]

Now you've established your credentials.

As much as I'd like to disagree with Jason about such a drastic measure,
it IS the recommended procedure when a compromise has taken place.

 

[Ron Reaugh]

It would still be a false positive, albeit a welcome one.


Generally they have to affect a number of users before it comes to the
attention of the virus fighters.

Number of users vs time seems quite a different thing.

Yes, virus checkers generally don't prevent the creation of files,

I thought they protected against virus like behavior.

they
only scan on-access (usually on opening the file). For instance if for
some reason your system configuration allows sharing of the root
directory (not a good thing), none of the measures you mention will have
any affect on the creation of a file in the root directory.

AH, how about ZoneAlarm???

Only when
accessed next will the AV scan it - and having no extension makes it
hard to have it in any include/exclude by extension config file.

It is really too bad the file is not available for further scrutiny.

HMM, it seems to be in AVG's virus vault but the extraction (Save As..)
hangs.

 

[Ron Reaugh]

As much as I'd like to disagree with Jason about such a drastic measure,
it IS the recommended procedure when a compromise has taken place.

Recommended by who? Are you saying that all this virus checkers and
cleaners/disinfectors are frauds as that can't possibly work reliably?? If
so then I know how to build an app that can detect any infection...I assumed
that such had already been done. Start with an app that does somekind of a
fancy encrypted CRC of all the relevant files on a HD and then it keeps an
encrypted database of same for later comparison...I didn't say it was
pretty.

Clean install isn't a rational/reasonable option. The same logic would
suggest that any backups be burned immediately....just NO.

 

[Chris Salter]

Recommended by who?

Cert & Microsoft. Google it.

Are you saying that all this virus checkers and
cleaners/disinfectors are frauds as that can't possibly work reliably??

? His text didn't even hint at them being frauds. Can't work reliably
when compromised yes.

If
so then I know how to build an app that can detect any infection...I assumed
that such had already been done. Start with an app that does somekind of a
fancy encrypted CRC of all the relevant files on a HD and then it keeps an
encrypted database of same for later comparison...I didn't say it was
pretty.

It has been done, host based IDS. Its still unreliable in the case of
being owned or root-kitted.

Clean install isn't a rational/reasonable option.

Its entirely upto whether you reinstall. (It doesn't take long so i
don't understand why you wouldn't.)

The same logic would
suggest that any backups be burned immediately....just NO.

Your flawed logic maybe. The real logic would dicate that you would
reinstall windows, recover executable data from a known good backup, and
restore the data from a recent backup. At this point the data is still
untrust worthy so you would have to test it, check it etc etc.

 

[Jason Edwards]

to

Maybe but do you have any evidence that any of these has been actually used
in a penetration recently? OR are they all just potential?

Sure. Some time ago I was curious about strange messages with links
appearing in newsgroups, so I set up an isolated PC with its own broadband
connection running Windows 98 with ALL updates and clicked one of the links.
This took me to a website offering adult material. I can't remember the
details but it had some clever way of getting me to scroll down and click. A
quick run of hijackthis then discovered that a trojan had been planted in
the startup folder and was waiting to run on the next startup.
The computer was then wiped and restored from a clean image.
I got rid of the trojan file about a week later, it was kept only to verify
that two popular virus scanners were still pronouncing it clean after a
week.

Why? If that's not what they're lookin for then what are they lookin for?

I thought I'd already explained that no matter how hard they look they can't
be expected to include all malware the same day it's written. Some may only
be included months later, or perhaps never.

I'm sure. You ever heard of c:\null?
Nope.


Provide some references that suggest that is not the usual and EFFECTIVE
model?

Sure it's the usual model for a home Windows user but it is not effective
for the reasons you have discovered for yourself. Personal software
firewalls are useless because there are many ways for malware to bypass
them. Malware might ride on another application such as Internet Explorer,
it might answer the firewall's popup questions itself, it might shut the
firewall down completely, it might prevent the firewall from getting
updates, etc.
Virus scanners are useless for exactly the reason that you are
understandably upset about discovering for yourself. You thought you were
doing everything possible but you still got a trojan.

done

I find that unlikely but barely possible.

Barely possible would be more than enough for me. I'd rather make it
impossible. To do that you arrange to prevent any executable code getting
where you don't want it. This is likely to be impossible with a Windows 98
PC connected directly to a broadband connection where everything has
complete access to everything else.
Consider an external firewall box which stops it getting to the PC in the
first place.

An anti-virus
vendor may manage to do an update in less that a day if the virus/trojan
is
all over the news but it may otherwise take longer. Trojan writers

are
not

under any obligation to send copies of their trojans to anti-virus
vendors.

OR did something penetrate all the firewalls and suddenly spawn this
file
which AVG quickly recognized?

I have no idea where C:\NULL came from but if it were on my PC I would
want
to know what it was.
If I was sitting at the PC which had C:\NULL on it then I'd look in
C:\NULL
to see what was there.

After one noticed it. I don't inspect c:\ or c:\win or c:\win\system[32]
hourly to spot undesirable files. That's what I got AVG etc. for.

I don't either, but I don't allow additional executable files on to the
system in the first place, so I don't have to go file spotting very

often

on
my own machines. I also don't need AVG.


Who have you been hearing this from?

Where have you been hearing the other from?

Ask yourself why there is a cumulative update every month.

YES, please do so. Have you been reading about the intense preemptive work
going on to find the holes before the hackers. From what I've heard that's
been effective down to with a day or two for the last year or two.
References otherwise?

How about the experiment I did with the isolated windows 98 PC described
above.
It may be that this hole has since been patched but it makes no difference
to me, I will continue to trust no executable code unless I'm very sure
about where it came from and what it's going to do to my system.
You may say that it's difficult or impossible to keep addware off a Windows
PC. But this is not the same as asking whether or not it can be done.

reading

Clueless!

There was a Microsoft technet article giving just this advice but I can't
find it, maybe someone else can unless it's gone.

Now you've established your credentials.

No. What I have established is that you are understandably upset about the
fact that you did everything you thought you had to do (virus scanner,
personal firewall, spyware remover) but you STILL got a trojan.
It's not my fault if you would rather attack the person giving you this
information instead of asking yourself why the methods you've applied so far
are not working.

Jason