To microsoft: gpf-reproducable bug in access 2003 sp3

[Alain Bourgeois]

Dear all,

A sample to reproduce the bug can be downloaded at
http://www.kineuro.com/accessBugs/Access2003ColumnLookupBug.mdb .

This sample contains only 2 EMPTY tables, without relations.

In access 2000-> Open table [Detail Prestation] (edit) -> OK
In access 2003-> Open table [Detail Prestation] (edit) -> GPF

However, if you delete table Patients, it will work...

Cause: in [Detail Prestation], Field Patient, Lookup
=> On table Patients, Column count 10, column width 0 (to hide id).

In access 2003, I had to type a query on table patients, and specify column
widths for each column, and it works.

Bug or error from my behalf?
-> It works without any trouble in access 2000, I discovered the problem
passing to access 2003 (it took me time to discover what happened exactly
when opening a particular subform),
-> If this was an error from my behalf, I would agree access to claim
when saving table, but giving a gpf when opening should not happen.


Regards,
Alain

 

[Allen Browne]

Alain, can you confirm if:

a) You have A2003 SP3

b) The problem still occurs if you have this hotfix:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/945674

More info:
Bugs introduced by SP3 for Office 2003
at:
http://allenbrowne.com/bug-Access2003SP3.html

 

[Albert D. Kallal]

Bug or error from my behalf?

Hum, well a bit of both...

If you look at the field Patient, there a combo box defined with "10"
columns, but the length is only 0" and worse, you have more then 10 columns
in Patient.

You need at least SOME length for that combo box.

change the 0" to a 1", and the error goes away.

in fact, you really likely should have lengths setup for the 10 columns such
as:

1";1";1";1";1";1";1";1";1";1"

Worse yet, the patients table has 53 columns!!! So, lots of wrong numbers
here....

I think the 53 columns is overloading the combo box. You REALLY REALLY need
to specify the columns for that combo.

So, DO NOT just put in the table name, but use/set specific SET THE number
of columns and ALSO set what field names you actually plan to have in that
combo.

So, your number of columns is wrong, and you not specifying the column
names. So, what columns is it going to pull?

Also, you have a function called GenUniqueID() as the default for the ID
field..where did this come from? As general rule you can't use a user
defined functions here. They should be removed...

So, in the row source click on the [..] button that appears and then query
builder will launch allowing you to choose columns in place of the table
name...

So, perhaps this should not error out, but not specifying which of the 53
columns is likely a big reason for this problem.

Simply choose the columns you want..and it should work just fine..

I am thinking 53 columns is WAY too many to return for the combo.

 

[Alain Bourgeois]

For info, in access 2000,
* setting 0 only for first column just hides ID's,
* setting 10 into column count doesn't cause any trouble (and only second
column is shown).

I have searched several hours to see that just opening this table caused a
trouble in a2K3. I would agree if I got an error message in dropping combo,
such as "bad column; ..." but not on a gpf. I think if this is a real
problem, either:
* saving the table should tell it
* the "compact and repair database" should do it.

Bug or error from my behalf?

Hum, well a bit of both...

If you look at the field Patient, there a combo box defined with "10"
columns, but the length is only 0" and worse, you have more then 10
columns in Patient.

You need at least SOME length for that combo box.

change the 0" to a 1", and the error goes away.

in fact, you really likely should have lengths setup for the 10 columns
such as:

1";1";1";1";1";1";1";1";1";1"

Worse yet, the patients table has 53 columns!!! So, lots of wrong numbers
here....

I think the 53 columns is overloading the combo box. You REALLY REALLY
need to specify the columns for that combo.

So, DO NOT just put in the table name, but use/set specific SET THE number
of columns and ALSO set what field names you actually plan to have in that
combo.

So, your number of columns is wrong, and you not specifying the column
names. So, what columns is it going to pull?

Also, you have a function called GenUniqueID() as the default for the ID
field..where did this come from? As general rule you can't use a user
defined functions here. They should be removed...

So, in the row source click on the [..] button that appears and then query
builder will launch allowing you to choose columns in place of the table
name...

So, perhaps this should not error out, but not specifying which of the 53
columns is likely a big reason for this problem.

Simply choose the columns you want..and it should work just fine..

I am thinking 53 columns is WAY too many to return for the combo.

 

[Alain Bourgeois]

I confirm I have A2003SP3 (11.8166.8221).
Il will install hotfix and let you know.

Alain, can you confirm if:

a) You have A2003 SP3

b) The problem still occurs if you have this hotfix:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/945674

More info:
Bugs introduced by SP3 for Office 2003
at:
http://allenbrowne.com/bug-Access2003SP3.html

--
Allen Browne - Microsoft MVP. Perth, Western Australia

Reply to group, rather than allenbrowne at mvps dot org.

Dear all,

A sample to reproduce the bug can be downloaded at
http://www.kineuro.com/accessBugs/Access2003ColumnLookupBug.mdb .

This sample contains only 2 EMPTY tables, without relations.

In access 2000-> Open table [Detail Prestation] (edit) -> OK
In access 2003-> Open table [Detail Prestation] (edit) -> GPF

However, if you delete table Patients, it will work...

Cause: in [Detail Prestation], Field Patient, Lookup
=> On table Patients, Column count 10, column width 0 (to hide id).

In access 2003, I had to type a query on table patients, and specify
column widths for each column, and it works.

Bug or error from my behalf?
-> It works without any trouble in access 2000, I discovered the
problem passing to access 2003 (it took me time to discover what happened
exactly when opening a particular subform),
-> If this was an error from my behalf, I would agree access to claim
when saving table, but giving a gpf when opening should not happen.

 

[Alain Bourgeois]

For info,

I cannot install the package, the download link doesn't work



Regards,

Alain

Alain, can you confirm if:

a) You have A2003 SP3

b) The problem still occurs if you have this hotfix:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/945674

More info:
Bugs introduced by SP3 for Office 2003
at:
http://allenbrowne.com/bug-Access2003SP3.html

--
Allen Browne - Microsoft MVP. Perth, Western Australia

Reply to group, rather than allenbrowne at mvps dot org.

Dear all,

A sample to reproduce the bug can be downloaded at
http://www.kineuro.com/accessBugs/Access2003ColumnLookupBug.mdb .

This sample contains only 2 EMPTY tables, without relations.

In access 2000-> Open table [Detail Prestation] (edit) -> OK
In access 2003-> Open table [Detail Prestation] (edit) -> GPF

However, if you delete table Patients, it will work...

Cause: in [Detail Prestation], Field Patient, Lookup
=> On table Patients, Column count 10, column width 0 (to hide id).

In access 2003, I had to type a query on table patients, and specify
column widths for each column, and it works.

Bug or error from my behalf?
-> It works without any trouble in access 2000, I discovered the
problem passing to access 2003 (it took me time to discover what happened
exactly when opening a particular subform),
-> If this was an error from my behalf, I would agree access to claim
when saving table, but giving a gpf when opening should not happen.

 

[Allen Browne]

Try again: works ere.

 

[Bob Larson]

When you say "the download link doesn't work" can you define "doesn't work?"
What happens when you click on it? I just clicked on it and it worked for
me.

--

Thanks,

Bob Larson
Access MVP

Free Access Tutorials and Resources: http://www.btabdevelopment.com

For info,

I cannot install the package, the download link doesn't work



Regards,

Alain

Alain, can you confirm if:

a) You have A2003 SP3

b) The problem still occurs if you have this hotfix:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/945674

More info:
Bugs introduced by SP3 for Office 2003
at:
http://allenbrowne.com/bug-Access2003SP3.html

--
Allen Browne - Microsoft MVP. Perth, Western Australia

Reply to group, rather than allenbrowne at mvps dot org.

Dear all,

A sample to reproduce the bug can be downloaded at
http://www.kineuro.com/accessBugs/Access2003ColumnLookupBug.mdb .

This sample contains only 2 EMPTY tables, without relations.

In access 2000-> Open table [Detail Prestation] (edit) -> OK
In access 2003-> Open table [Detail Prestation] (edit) -> GPF

However, if you delete table Patients, it will work...

Cause: in [Detail Prestation], Field Patient, Lookup
=> On table Patients, Column count 10, column width 0 (to hide id).

In access 2003, I had to type a query on table patients, and specify
column widths for each column, and it works.

Bug or error from my behalf?
-> It works without any trouble in access 2000, I discovered the
problem passing to access 2003 (it took me time to discover what
happened exactly when opening a particular subform),
-> If this was an error from my behalf, I would agree access to claim
when saving table, but giving a gpf when opening should not happen.

 

[Albert D. Kallal]

* saving the table should tell it
* the "compact and repair database" should do it.

Sure, it probably should do the first one. compacting most defiantly should
NOT fix this.

On the other hand, you have somewhat of mess here since you returning 53
fields, but only have 10 columns defined in the column count, but yet you DO
NOT define which of the 53 fields are to be displayed. And, as mentioned,
you REALLY want to remove those functions for default value of id that don't
even exist.

I will submit this bug repot. I do think it should be fixed (so, appreciate
you pointing this problem out). However, keep in mind my bets are this is
going to be VERY LOW in the priority fix list.

We have about 20,000 posts per month here and yours is the FIRST one to
identify this problem. So, it is not like everyone else is having this
problem on a daily bases. In fact, it rare as a cold day in hell.

As I said, this does need to be fixed, and I will submit this bug. However,
you have to ask yourself why your the 1st person on the planet to report
this problem!! Don't just throw a table of 53 fields and hope it sticks like
mud on a wall. Few if anyone is going to do this in a production system (in
fact very few, since we not seen this bug before!).

By the way, there is another reason likely why we don't see this problem.
read #2 in the following "ten commandments of access list":

http://www.mvps.org/access/tencommandments.htm

In the above, you see that it is suggested you avoid lookup tables
altogether..

So, your SIMPLE workaround here is to define your fields and columns
correctly here that you want displayed and the problem simply goes away.

 

[David W. Fenton]

We have about 20,000 posts per month here and yours is the FIRST
one to identify this problem.

Someone was the first person to submit the bookmark bug in A97 (and
previous versions). It happened to be a very complex bug to identify
because the circumstances to product it and the results were so
unusual. It eventually got identified and corrected, but the bug
existed in 3 major versions of Access before it was tracked down and
fixed.

Now, I would agree that the issue in the present situation is pilot
error that happens to flush out a bug, and also agree that it should
be reported. You and I both know that sometimes the marginal cases
can sometimes lead us to identify problems in areas that aren't so
peripheral, and if you hadn't been looking for the cause of the
marginal case, you wouldn't have noticed the problems with the
other.

So, I'm sure someone will look at it if it's reported, but I would
doubt that it would be a high priority to fix. On the other hand, if
the cause of the problem is isolated to a part of the code that has
no dependencies, it could get fixed. We all know that easy bugs get
fixed before hard bugs, even when the easy bugs are completely
insignificant.

 

[hor vannara]

Someone was the first person to submit the bookmark bug in A97 (and
previous versions). It happened to be a very complex bug to identify
because the circumstances to product it and the results were so
unusual. It eventually got identified and corrected, but the bug
existed in 3 major versions of Access before it was tracked down and
fixed.

Now, I would agree that the issue in the present situation is pilot
error that happens to flush out a bug, and also agree that it should
be reported. You and I both know that sometimes the marginal cases
can sometimes lead us to identify problems in areas that aren't so
peripheral, and if you hadn't been looking for the cause of the
marginal case, you wouldn't have noticed the problems with the
other.

So, I'm sure someone will look at it if it's reported, but I would
doubt that it would be a high priority to fix. On the other hand, if
the cause of the problem is isolated to a part of the code that has
no dependencies, it could get fixed. We all know that easy bugs get
fixed before hard bugs, even when the easy bugs are completely
insignificant.

 

[Alain Bourgeois]

Allen,



I could install hotfix and I don't get any gpf anymore. Thanks.



Regards,

Alain

Alain, can you confirm if:

a) You have A2003 SP3

b) The problem still occurs if you have this hotfix:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/945674

More info:
Bugs introduced by SP3 for Office 2003
at:
http://allenbrowne.com/bug-Access2003SP3.html

--
Allen Browne - Microsoft MVP. Perth, Western Australia

Reply to group, rather than allenbrowne at mvps dot org.

Dear all,

A sample to reproduce the bug can be downloaded at
http://www.kineuro.com/accessBugs/Access2003ColumnLookupBug.mdb .

This sample contains only 2 EMPTY tables, without relations.

In access 2000-> Open table [Detail Prestation] (edit) -> OK
In access 2003-> Open table [Detail Prestation] (edit) -> GPF

However, if you delete table Patients, it will work...

Cause: in [Detail Prestation], Field Patient, Lookup
=> On table Patients, Column count 10, column width 0 (to hide id).

In access 2003, I had to type a query on table patients, and specify
column widths for each column, and it works.

Bug or error from my behalf?
-> It works without any trouble in access 2000, I discovered the
problem passing to access 2003 (it took me time to discover what happened
exactly when opening a particular subform),
-> If this was an error from my behalf, I would agree access to claim
when saving table, but giving a gpf when opening should not happen.

 

[Allen Browne]

Good news!

Thanks for posting the solution for others to discover too.