Timeshifting FM on the ATI AIW 9600 Pro - first test...

[Tim S]

I went ahead and bought cuz i've always wanted and easy solution to
record FM shows on several stations while out of town.

Sound quality is marginal. For me it really only works for talk shows.
I guess it depends on the person, I tend to be more picky than most.
It will only record in .mp3 format at one selected bitrate. This is
what winamp says:

Size: 154331 bytes
Header found at: 0 bytes
Length: 5 seconds
MPEG 1.0 layer 2
224kbit, 211 frames
44100Hz Stereo
CRCs: No
Copyrighted: No
Original: No
Emphasis: None

224Kb? Isn't that a little odd? I really don't know that much about
..mp3 but it seems like 128kb or 192kb were more common. Is this even
..mp3?

The actual ability to timeshift is nice. I can select different
channels at different times, or repeat weekly.

If there was a way to do this with a high quality tuner plugged in to
my PC and *change channels* I would buy the hardware/software.

So far I have a mixed opinion. I bought the card really only for the
FM feature. It's plugged into my Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound card,
which has been pretty decent for a PC sound card.

 

[DAB sounds worse than FM]

I went ahead and bought cuz i've always wanted and easy solution to
record FM shows on several stations while out of town.

Sound quality is marginal. For me it really only works for talk shows.

It sounds like the FM tuner isn't very good then.

I guess it depends on the person, I tend to be more picky than most.
It will only record in .mp3 format at one selected bitrate. This is
what winamp says:

Size: 154331 bytes
Header found at: 0 bytes
Length: 5 seconds
MPEG 1.0 layer 2

Are you sure it is not Layer 3? mp3 is MPEG Layer 3, and Layer 2 is a
different codec, which doesn't use 44100 Hz sampling frequency as you have
listed below.

224kbit, 211 frames
44100Hz Stereo
CRCs: No
Copyrighted: No
Original: No
Emphasis: None

224Kb? Isn't that a little odd?

It's 224 kbps (not K, K = 1024, k = 1000, and it is 224,000 bps), and this
is one of the possible bit rates for MPEG audio. Bit rates greater than or
equal to 128kbps are 128k, 160k, 192k, 224k, 256k, 320k, and even I think
384k.

I really don't know that much about
.mp3 but it seems like 128kb or 192kb were more common. Is this even
.mp3?

It's sampling at 44100 Hz, so I reckon it will be.

If there was a way to do this with a high quality tuner plugged in to
my PC and *change channels* I would buy the hardware/software.

You can get a hi-fi separate FM tuner, plug it into an amp, connect your amp
to your sound card, buy Cool Edit 2000 or Cool Edit 2000 Lite or some other
audio application, and record higher quality FM on your PC. Cool Edit 2000
(not Lite) has a built-in decent quality mp3 encoder so you'd end up with
better results. It has a timer to record when you're not there, but the
timer can only record only record one event at a time.

Here's a sample recorded off BBC Radio 2 using a Denon TU260L FM tuner
(~£100) using a Terratec EWX24/96 sound card (~£130) and recorded using Cool
Edit 2000:

http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/Samples/R2_FM_2.mp3 (3.7 MB)

So far I have a mixed opinion. I bought the card really only for the
FM feature. It's plugged into my Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound card,
which has been pretty decent for a PC sound card.

224kbps mp3 is a high bit rate for mp3 and you should get very good results
at that bit rate. If it doesn't provide good results then it's likely that
the FM tuner isn't very good on the card. It's likely that all the noise
inside the PC is screwing up the audio quality to some extent, and if the
card isn't very expensive then the tuner itself might not be very good.

 

[Tim S]

It sounds like the FM tuner isn't very good then.




Are you sure it is not Layer 3? mp3 is MPEG Layer 3, and Layer 2 is a
different codec, which doesn't use 44100 Hz sampling frequency as you have
listed below.

Winamp still reports MPEG 1.0 Layer 2. Could Winamp be wrong?

It's 224 kbps (not K, K = 1024, k = 1000, and it is 224,000 bps), and this
is one of the possible bit rates for MPEG audio. Bit rates greater than or
equal to 128kbps are 128k, 160k, 192k, 224k, 256k, 320k, and even I think
384k.




It's sampling at 44100 Hz, so I reckon it will be.




You can get a hi-fi separate FM tuner, plug it into an amp, connect your amp
to your sound card, buy Cool Edit 2000 or Cool Edit 2000 Lite or some other
audio application, and record higher quality FM on your PC. Cool Edit 2000
(not Lite) has a built-in decent quality mp3 encoder so you'd end up with
better results. It has a timer to record when you're not there, but the
timer can only record only record one event at a time.

That is the problem. There several shows I want on different channels.
As far as the talk shows this is adequate, but for music it fails. I
thought for sure Yamaha would have incorporated timeshifting features
into their Cavit products, but no go after receiving an email from
them.
http://www.yamahamultimedia.com/yec/idx_cavit.asp

Here's a sample recorded off BBC Radio 2 using a Denon TU260L FM tuner
(~£100) using a Terratec EWX24/96 sound card (~£130) and recorded using Cool
Edit 2000:

http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/Samples/R2_FM_2.mp3 (3.7 MB)




224kbps mp3 is a high bit rate for mp3 and you should get very good results
at that bit rate. If it doesn't provide good results then it's likely that
the FM tuner isn't very good on the card. It's likely that all the noise
inside the PC is screwing up the audio quality to some extent, and if the
card isn't very expensive then the tuner itself might not be very good.

The FM was added to the latest ATI All-in-Wonder as an extra feature.
I sort of already knew it wasn't going to be a high-end tuner, just
wanted to try it. It's proably not much different than any of the
other PC video capture cards w/built-in FM I suppose.

Thanks for your post - i'm going to listen to your piece.

Tim

 

[DAB sounds worse than FM]

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 11:48:35 -0000, "DAB sounds worse than FM"


Winamp still reports MPEG 1.0 Layer 2. Could Winamp be wrong?

I've just looked it up in a book and Layer 2 does support 44.1kHz sampling
rate, so it'll be Layer 2, my mistake.

That is the problem. There several shows I want on different channels.
As far as the talk shows this is adequate, but for music it fails.

I obviously wasn't paying much attention because I thought you'd bought an
FM radio PC card, but I've just noticed that you're on about an ATI 9600
graphics card that includes an FM radio on it.

My opinion is that you should forget about trying to get anything other than
mediocre audio quality at best out of an FM tuner on-board a graphics card
like this. They'll have just put it on to improve the spec for marketing
purposes but you can bet that the components that go to make up the FM tuner
will be really cheap. Remember that graphics card prices drop quickly so in
a few months' time this card will be cheap to buy, and ATI still need to
make a profit on it, so they're not going to put any expensive components
into it.

My advice would be to get a decent FM hi-fi separate tuner, connect it to an
amplifier, connect the amplifier to your sound card and record using Cool
Edit or a similar audio application.

The FM was added to the latest ATI All-in-Wonder as an extra feature.
I sort of already knew it wasn't going to be a high-end tuner,
just wanted to try it. It's proably not much different than any of the
other PC video capture cards w/built-in FM I suppose.

Yeah, don't expect anything above pretty crap audio quality from these
built-in FM tuners.

Thanks for your post - i'm going to listen to your piece.

No problem.

 

[Steven Toney]

The advise about an external tuner is missing the point of having a system
where one can schedule -- times and dates to record specific channels to
MP3's -- a bit like radio tivo although most realize there are no guides
available and it would be a manual time, duration, and station setup thing

What are the options for this type task

 

[Tim S]

none really...

The advise about an external tuner is missing the point of having a system
where one can schedule -- times and dates to record specific channels to
MP3's -- a bit like radio tivo although most realize there are no guides
available and it would be a manual time, duration, and station setup thing

What are the options for this type task

 

[Tim S]

I tried burning my first talk show recording as an audio CD and Nero
tells me the file format is not supported. Must me the MP2 format
issue. what a waste money this card was.

 

[Martin]

The advise about an external tuner is missing the point of having a system
where one can schedule -- times and dates to record specific channels to
MP3's -- a bit like radio tivo although most realize there are no guides
available and it would be a manual time, duration, and station setup thing

What are the options for this type task

For a fixed location where a satellite dish is an option, there are various
DVB-S PC receiver cards to choose from, or you can use a consumer satellite
receiver box with LAN or DVR facilities such as Dreambox.

Otherwise you're looking at some sort of DAB receiver with a PC interface.
The Terratec DR Box 1 is pricey, but it combines a consumer DAB receiver
box with a USB interface, with both Linux and Windows software available.
Of course a decent outdoor DAB antenna would add to the cost of this
solution, unless you live in an area with strong DAB signals.

HTH

- Martin.

 

[cmxl]

Apologies for being a bit off-topic, this has nothing to do with recording
FM off air, but for recording FM stations that stream on the web, I've just
started using the timer-recorder in AudioGrabber, and it seems to work
pretty well. Does nothing for the often-awful sound quality of webcasts, of
course!

 

[Timotao]

I give up on PCI FM cards. too many line inputs to manage now. This
was supposed to be easy and they all sound like crap. Am now searching
for the best solution to record in MP3 format on my hard drive from
the line out of my receiver w/timer.

 

[a]

Most people use Total Recorder since it's only $12 or you could spend more and
get the Pro version for $35. The advantage of the Pro version is that it breaks
up the recorded mp3 file into chunks, e.g. one file per hour recorded or
whatever you like.

 

[Nick Jeffery]

Most people use Total Recorder since it's only $12 or you could spend more and
get the Pro version for $35. The advantage of the Pro version is that it breaks
up the recorded mp3 file into chunks, e.g. one file per hour recorded or
whatever you like.

Nothing that can't be done for free with cron, sox, and lame!

n.

 

[Timotao]

This is the one that assigns itself as the default sound card in
windows? I thought it was a little odd, can try again.

 

[a]

There's an option for it NOT to install the default driver and you can configure
the input source selector manually in the options menu.