this computer good for games?

[Dustin]

http://shopping.hp.ca/cStoreCA/Base...Id=49&FamilyId=136&BaseId=2720&BEId=5&Lang=EN

Would that computer be good for games, like battlefield 2?





Here is a copy of the specs, just in case you dont trust the link

Operating system
Microsoft® Windows® XP Media Center Edition 2005





Processor
AMD AthlonTM 64 X2 Dual-Core Processor 4200+ for TRUE multi-tasking,
2.20GHz, L2 Cache = 512KB+512K





Hard drive
250GB 7200 rpm Serial ATA hard drive





CD/DVD drive
LightScribe Double Layer 16X DVD±R/RW drive with CD writer
capabilities





Memory
1 GB PC3200 DDR SDRAM (2x512) (expandable to 4GB)





Modem/network card
56K modem and 10/100 Base-T network





Graphics card
Integrated ATI RADEON XPRESS 200 Graphics with 128MB shared video
memory





Audio
Integrated audio, 6 speaker configurable

 

[MCheu]

http://shopping.hp.ca/cStoreCA/Base...Id=49&FamilyId=136&BaseId=2720&BEId=5&Lang=EN

Would that computer be good for games, like battlefield 2?





Here is a copy of the specs, just in case you dont trust the link

Graphics card
Integrated ATI RADEON XPRESS 200 Graphics with 128MB shared video
memory

Based on your specs (and there may be other weak areas you didn't
mention), this is the one that would give me concern as far as game
performance goes. Nobody thinks integrated video will have stellar
performance, but the red flag is "shared video memory". That means
instead of actually having 128MB of video memory, it stakes out a
claim to 128Megs of system memory to use for that. Performance with
that arrangement will be ridiculously slow compared to something with
dedicated video memory. It's adequate for desktop apps, and *maybe*
video playback, but games, not a chance. Go for a different computer,
or plan on buying an actual video card in the $150 range at least.
Check to see that you've got PCI-E or AGP ports first though, as you
want to get the right type. If the system has neither slots (some
heavily integrated computers don't).

 

[Sleepy]

http://shopping.hp.ca/cStoreCA/Base...Id=49&FamilyId=136&BaseId=2720&BEId=5&Lang=EN

Would that computer be good for games, like battlefield 2?

good CPU and enough RAM but piss poor graphics card. add a 6600GT or better.

 

[Dustin]

thanks for the reply MCheu, its good that you caught that. I'll be sure
to keep away from integrated memory. Dedicated memory all the way

 

[Dustin]

Thanks for the reply Sleepy, i'm happy that you like the CPU (i did my
homework on that one, was gonna get the pentium D but then CNET said
this one was better). Ram is easily expanded from what i hear, so
adding more wouldnt be problem i guess.

I'll be sure to look more closely at the graphics card now, and if i
can find something with a 6600GT then i'll probably get it if its
resonably priced.

 

[DaveW]

No. The on-board video that is on the motherboard is far too slow to play
games like Battlefield 2. You need a dedicated AGP or PCI-E based card that
is rated faster rather than slower for advanced games like that.

--
DaveW

----------------
http://shopping.hp.ca/cStoreCA/Base...Id=49&FamilyId=136&BaseId=2720&BEId=5&Lang=EN

Would that computer be good for games, like battlefield 2?





Here is a copy of the specs, just in case you dont trust the link

Operating system
Microsoft® Windows® XP Media Center Edition 2005





Processor
AMD AthlonTM 64 X2 Dual-Core Processor 4200+ for TRUE multi-tasking,
2.20GHz, L2 Cache = 512KB+512K





Hard drive
250GB 7200 rpm Serial ATA hard drive





CD/DVD drive
LightScribe Double Layer 16X DVD±R/RW drive with CD writer
capabilities





Memory
1 GB PC3200 DDR SDRAM (2x512) (expandable to 4GB)





Modem/network card
56K modem and 10/100 Base-T network





Graphics card
Integrated ATI RADEON XPRESS 200 Graphics with 128MB shared video
memory





Audio
Integrated audio, 6 speaker configurable

 

[dannysdailys]

Dustinwrote
http://shopping.hp.ca/cStoreCA/Base...eId=49&FamilyId=136&BaseId=2720&BEId=5&Lang=E
I agree with the rest, but I'd like to give you a piece of advice tha
will live with you forever. Don't buy the Compaq, don't buy an HP
don't buy a Dell, don't buy a Gateway an
don't buy an e-machine

Do yourself a big favor and have your local shop custom build you one
I can almost guarantee the quality will be better. Perhaps, you'l
find you don't need Windows Media Edition either. With a local shop
you only get what you need. This keeps the cost down

Local shops (white boxes) have by far, the highest customer rating
and there are many reasons why

One thing you don't get is what you've showed us: What seems like
killer computer is in fact neutered. Which means you need to upgrad
it already. You haven't even plugged it in yet

The "majors" computers don't like to be upgraded and onl
very limited things can be done. While I'm sure the Compaq yo
showed us can have it's video upgraded, that's about as far as you'l
ever be able to go. You can't even change a power supply withou
getting screwed by Compaq

Heaven forbid your warranty should be one day out of date

The White Box will have all standardized parts that are cheap, an
easily available. That means your local guy can easily fix it

He's only a local phone call away. With them, you call India

He won't give you any software you don't need. With them, you'l
spend a week getting rid of all the crap. And, most all of it want
to be on the Internet when you're trying to game. No
[i:ad3aa6a498]ever [/i:ad3aa6a498]good

And, I think if you look, you'll find your local shop to be very pric
competitive with the majors

Best of luc

 

[Dustin]

I looked over the custom built option, but it just added up to high.
This computer has everything i want, because media center edition is
something that i will be useing alot. Overall it seems like a good
deal, so far all of the problems you said it had are easy fixes (new
graphics card etc..) The only one that i would have no idea on how to
change is the one suggested by DaveW dedicated AGP or PCI-E but thats
only because i dont know what those mean.

Overall it seems like if i just got a better video card (this one looks
pretty good)
http://www.memoryexpress.com/index....dProductDetail.php&DisplayProductID=6746&SID=
everything would be fine and i'd have windows media center to boot.


So from the sound of your previous posts thats the only change that i
would need, to turn this sissy computer into a lean mean battlefield
machine

 

[kony]

http://shopping.hp.ca/cStoreCA/Base...Id=49&FamilyId=136&BaseId=2720&BEId=5&Lang=EN

Would that computer be good for games, like battlefield 2?

No. I'll make a few comments within about what parts are
excessive or inadequate for a gaming box.

Operating system
Microsoft® Windows® XP Media Center Edition 2005

Fine for a gaming box, unnecessary for general purpose
system. About the same price though, so might as well go
with MCE "IF" you need the Media Center features, mostly the
large format interface since any normal system with similar
components will do as well or better for typical multimedia
tasks.

Processor
AMD AthlonTM 64 X2 Dual-Core Processor 4200+ for TRUE multi-tasking,
2.20GHz, L2 Cache = 512KB+512K

X2 cpu is sub-optimal for gaming. At the same price a
single-core CPU will be faster for games.

250GB 7200 rpm Serial ATA hard drive

Not bad, though at the $1000 price-point for a system, it's
nice to have 2 HDDs.

Memory
1 GB PC3200 DDR SDRAM (2x512) (expandable to 4GB)

1GB is fine for most games. 1.5GB is a little better for
BF2 and support of future games.

Modem/network card
56K modem and 10/100 Base-T network

I'd get a Gigabit adapter myself, they're often integral on
motherboards now or $15 or so for a PCI card. Not that it's
necessary for gaming at all but given the minimal to no
additional cost, might as well have the networking potential
several times faster.

Graphics card
Integrated ATI RADEON XPRESS 200 Graphics with 128MB shared video
memory

Easily the weakest link. Your system needs more spent on
the video card than any other part, including the CPU, for
modern gaming. In a $700 system, it'd be reasonable to put
$200 towards the video card.

Audio
Integrated audio, 6 speaker configurable

Avoid integrated audio. Sounds bad, lots of CPU overhead
for gaming. Pick up the cheapest semi-modern Creative Labs
card you can find. Their drivers are bloated and beyond but
for hardware accelerated 3D gaming sound they are the
standard and most conducive to light load. On the other
hand if you only plan on having 2 speakers in use, any sound
card can do this fine. I wouldn't pay a premium for 6 cheap
speakers though, typically a lot of cheap speakers sound
worse than 2 good ones.

You won't be able to buy a cost-effective gaming system from
an OEM, AFAIK. Typically they want to bundle the high end
parts together when what you need more than anything is just
the mid-grade or better video card. Even with the memory,
typically you can get better memory for same price or less
equipping the system with the minimum memory possible then
buying it elsewhere.

 

[Dustin]

Thanks for the very detailed reply kony

I alwase thought that the duel core AMD would be fine for games, the
salesman even told me that future games would eventually use duel core
features so it would be to my advantage to buy a computer with that.
Plus sub-optimal isnt that bad, also remember that this computer is
going to have all the neccisary antivirus/firewall setups so thats
something the other core would do (salesman told me that line...makes
sence i guess)

Having 2 hard drives would be cool, and its something that i will
probably add in the future (when i need the space). The salesman said
that there is a thing in the computer that lets me add another 300GB of
harddrive space. Keep in mind this is canadian dollars, the computer
seemed like a fairly good deal considering what other stores like
compusmart were asking for a similar system.

I honestly dont know what a Gigabit adapter does, but if it only costs
$15 then i guess there would be no harm in buying one.

The audio is a new issue, and a very important one because i am
planning on laying down $200+ on a 5.1 surround sound
http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10051751
So if they dont sounds good that'll be a bummer...i'll ask the salesman
today if its possible to isntall a new sound card. So that way if it
does start giving me problems with the sound then i'll just pick up
something cheap like this
http://www.memoryexpress.com/index....dProductDetail.php&DisplayProductID=5107&SID=
and bask in the glory of my 5.1 surround

 

[Paul]

I looked over the custom built option, but it just added up to high.
This computer has everything i want, because media center edition is
something that i will be useing alot. Overall it seems like a good
deal, so far all of the problems you said it had are easy fixes (new
graphics card etc..) The only one that i would have no idea on how to
change is the one suggested by DaveW dedicated AGP or PCI-E but thats
only because i dont know what those mean.

Overall it seems like if i just got a better video card (this one looks
pretty good)
http://www.memoryexpress.com/index....dProductDetail.php&DisplayProductID=6746&SID=
everything would be fine and i'd have windows media center to boot.


So from the sound of your previous posts thats the only change that i
would need, to turn this sissy computer into a lean mean battlefield
machine

Yes, but once you open up a pre-built machine, and try to add hardware
to it, you have to deal with the characteristics of the stuff you got.

For example, did you look at the free slots in this product ?

"HP Pavilion Media Center TV m7330n PC"
http://shopping.hp.ca/cStoreCA/Base...Id=49&FamilyId=136&BaseId=2720&BEId=5&Lang=EN

"Expansion Slots
3 PCI slots (one available)
1 PCI-Express x16 (available)"

So, you are right, a "eVGA e-Geforce 6800 GS 256MB PCI-E" will fit
in the PCI Express x16 slot. Now, look at a closeup of the 6800GS
video card. It has a 2x3 PCI Express power connector on the end of
the card.

As a home builder, the first thing you'd check, is whether the new
power supply you were buying for your build, has a PCI Express power
connector. For example, this one does:

http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/assets/T51SLI/mb_T51SLI.gif

The second issue is, how much power does the HP computer have left
for adding hardware ? To know that, we need a spec for the HP
power supply. If we were building the computer ourselves, this
would be easy, as we wouldn't buy a power supply without seeing
the current available on +3.3V, +5V, +12V and so on. (This info
is also printed on a label on the side of the supply.) I tried
to look for info from HP, and this is all the info they give.
(Go to the HP parts store, and enter M7330N, to get this info.)

Power Supply [Electronic Parts]
5188-0129 Power supply - 300 watt (Merlot B, Reg. with latch)

So we know if has a 300W supply, but we don't know how much of the
300W is available on +12V. We also don't know if the power supply
is a standard ATX supply or not. If it was, it could be upgraded,
again assuming the case has standard dimensions in the power
supply area, and a new unit can be fitted.

So sure, the HP is a great bargain, you get software lockin to the
hardware, and you'll have fun getting help with adding stuff to
it. If you never want to open up a computer, then a pre-built is
perfect. If you can see yourself adding hardware to the inside
of the computer, then you'd better know _a lot_ about the product.
If the power supply had a spec, we could give you a guesstimate
of whether the new video card would work out or not. (And buying
the HP and then looking inside, is pretty risky, if some detail
doesn't work out for you. And the odds of finding one with the
side off it, at the Best Buy, are pretty slim.)

Here, the 6800GS is 8.5" long, and is listed as 54.6 watts. That
would be [email protected], assuming it all comes from the PCI Express
2x3 power connector. If the HP doesn't have the 2x3 power connector,
then a Molex 1x4 to PCI Express 2x3 adapter would be needed.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gpu-consumption2006_6.html

HTH,
Paul

 

[Dustin]

Wow Paul, you know alot about computers. The salesman didnt even
mention anything about power supply when i asked him how to add a
better graphics card. However i did see the inside of the computer for
myself and he showed me where to plug it into, everything looked fine
back there. Pretty much identical to something that you'd find from a
custom computer from what i thought. I was going to go pick it up today
actually, but if the salesman starts acting weird when i ask him about
power supply i will look at the back for myself and see what numbers
are back there. Then if there is enough extra power (12V should be
good) i will buy it on the spot.

Thank you for your indepth analysis of this computer Paul, you examined
it at a level that i could not even emagine doing.

Anywase if all goes well the next post i make will be from my new HP
Pavilion Media Center TV m7330n PC

 

[kony]

Thanks for the very detailed reply kony

I alwase thought that the duel core AMD would be fine for games, the
salesman even told me that future games would eventually use duel core
features so it would be to my advantage to buy a computer with that.
Plus sub-optimal isnt that bad, also remember that this computer is
going to have all the neccisary antivirus/firewall setups so thats
something the other core would do (salesman told me that line...makes
sence i guess)

It will do fine for games, but if the system is targeted
towards games, the faster CPU for any particular cost is a
single-core model. Furture games, sure eventually they will
support dual core better. My crystal ball is broken so I
can't tell you when the day is that more games would benefit
from dual core than a faster (per $) single core, and in
general it's never good to buy towards the future too much.
So it's not that you should avoid dual-core, only that for
the same system budget it will be a little slower than if it
were single core.

Having 2 hard drives would be cool, and its something that i will
probably add in the future (when i need the space). The salesman said
that there is a thing in the computer that lets me add another 300GB of
harddrive space. Keep in mind this is canadian dollars, the computer
seemed like a fairly good deal considering what other stores like
compusmart were asking for a similar system.

Maybe, but typically these small sized HP, Company, and Dell
systems have very limited HDD cooling already and the 2nd
drive is not cooled so well.

I honestly dont know what a Gigabit adapter does, but if it only costs
$15 then i guess there would be no harm in buying one.

Gigabit ethernet, 1000Mb instead of 100Mb, has a real world
network transfer rate of at least 3X faster but only
inbetween 2 Gigabit equipped systems. It will will network
with a 100Mb equipped system but only at the 100Mb speed.
Naturally the only way to end up with multiple pieces of
equipment that have Gigabit is to choose it with each. It's
a fairly common feature these days, I'm a bit surprised the
$1000 HP systems don't have it.

The audio is a new issue, and a very important one because i am
planning on laying down $200+ on a 5.1 surround sound
http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10051751
So if they dont sounds good that'll be a bummer...i'll ask the salesman
today if its possible to isntall a new sound card. So that way if it
does start giving me problems with the sound then i'll just pick up
something cheap like this
http://www.memoryexpress.com/index....dProductDetail.php&DisplayProductID=5107&SID=
and bask in the glory of my 5.1 surround

I am more picky than some about sound quality. Overall some
onboard sound is marginally OK, but seldom great. Other
times it's very noisey, some users can even hear their mouse
movements around the screen if they turn the volume up just
a little. For a gamer a Creative labs card is a good idea
and it need not be their top of the line, but maybe a Live!
or Audigy, not something like a Soundblaster 16.

It can wait though, maybe you'll get lucky and your onboard
sound is good enough for your uses, and your video or other
subsystem is enough of a bottleneck that the CPU has spare
cycles to do the sound processing ok. Since it's an add-on
card it can wait- I just wouldn't choose an oem sound option
that increases system cost. Also note that some OEM
Creative labs sound cards are crippled, do software
processing (via CPU) instead of hardware. That is a very
sneaky trick and results in paying the overhead for the
name-brand sound card but then not getting much of the
benefit from it. I'll not mention any names, just do a lot
of research on a sound card bundled with a system if it's
raising the cost of the system over other systems without
it.

 

[~misfit~]

It will do fine for games, but if the system is targeted
towards games, the faster CPU for any particular cost is a
single-core model. Furture games, sure eventually they will
support dual core better. My crystal ball is broken so I
can't tell you when the day is that more games would benefit
from dual core than a faster (per $) single core, and in
general it's never good to buy towards the future too much.
So it's not that you should avoid dual-core, only that for
the same system budget it will be a little slower than if it
were single core.

I agree. I just built a system for a friend. He bought the parts (with my
input) and then bought all the boxes around and I spent the afternoon
assembling it. I advised him to go with a single-core 4000+ (as it's
primarilly a gaming machine) and, as long as it's Socket 939 (Which it is,
in an SLI board) he can get a x2 core when games support them and they're
cheaper. I'm guessing that Socket 939 will be at it's EOL by then anyway.
Games often take 3+ years to design / build so it's going to be a while
before they're around. Also, x2 CPUs will drop considerably in price, as
CPUs of a given spec always have, over a year or two.

 

[Emperor's New Widescreen]

You know I have to laugh at the world of PC gaming, I could get plenty
of great games for my Atari St and indeed my Spectrum 48 K before
that. The computer you describe is about a billion time bigger and
faster in every respect and you ask if it is OK for games!!
People wet to the moon and back 40 years ago with computers
with a trillionth the power of that as a matter of life or death, hows that
for a game?

I no longer play the kind of games you speak of of course but it does
make me laugh, I doubt the game are no more playable or addictive
than the games I played decades ago on computers with a fraction of
the power.

As far as I am concerned the fancy graphics add nothing to the games
they are jus a waste of procesing power!

It seems to be a bit like the fashion industry you can buy a pair
of jeans for £10 or £1000 but at the end of the day they are just
a pair of jeans.

Now but to answer your question seriously you need to wait
a couple of years for a computer to be developed to play that
game properly, of course by then the game will have 'moved on'
and require an even bigger 'space heater'.

 

[Dustin]

I got it, and its awesome for games coming from my 1.8ghz IBM that was
so virus infested that it would take over 8min to turn on. This
computer is now my baby, and the remote is the coolest feature ever.
The only downside sofar has been the constant updates for all the new
programs

Ohh well, its all good. Next week i will be picking up my speakers, and
the week after that i will be picking up my graphics card. Life is
lookin up

also this duel core thing is pretty cool. When i go control+alt+delete
i see 2 process monitors, totally worth the extra money. Finally able
to play full spectrum warrior without lowering the quality to nothing,
or playing battlefield 1942 without having to turn the english audio
option off. It rocks, thanks for the help guys

 

[~misfit~]

I got it, and its awesome for games coming from my 1.8ghz IBM that was
so virus infested that it would take over 8min to turn on. This
computer is now my baby, and the remote is the coolest feature ever.
The only downside sofar has been the constant updates for all the new
programs

Ohh well, its all good. Next week i will be picking up my speakers,
and the week after that i will be picking up my graphics card. Life is
lookin up

also this duel core thing is pretty cool. When i go control+alt+delete
i see 2 process monitors, totally worth the extra money. Finally able
to play full spectrum warrior without lowering the quality to nothing,
or playing battlefield 1942 without having to turn the english audio
option off. It rocks, thanks for the help guys

Use the old PC (or a less powerful one) as a hardware firewall running
Linux. From the sounds of it half your problems are from not practicing safe
hex. Virus' will eat up your current PC's speed too if you let them.

 

[Dustin]

yea, thats why my new computer is for games only and my old computer
only for torrenting and such. That way that old piece of junk just
keeps getting more messed up, but whenever it downloads something good
i'll just stick it on my MP3 player and put it on this thing. That way
it'll remain protected from viruses for along time, also this computer
has a firewall and an antivirus so if something does go wrong it'll be
cool. That old computer had none of that junk cause it would just slow
it down even more.

 

[xubomber]

Actually... it's worth it to DL and install some free antiviru
software (I hear good things about AVG) and malware removal (Spybo
S&D, Ad-aware) on that old machine of yours. You'll probably ge
more performance back than you could possibly lose to an antiviru
program running. Anyway, unless the AV program in question has activ
protection that can't be turned off, you won't lose any performance t
it
As for your new computer, great! :

 

[dannysdailys]

Dustinwrote
Wow Paul, you know alot about computers. The salesman didnt eve

mention anything about power supply when i asked him how to add
better graphics card. However i did see the inside of the compute fo
myself and he showed me where to plug it into, everything looke fin
back there. Pretty much identical to something that you'd find fro

custom computer from what i thought. I was going to go pick it u toda
actually, but if the salesman starts acting weird when i ask hi abou
power supply i will look at the back for myself and see wha number
are back there. Then if there is enough extra power (12V should b
good) i will buy it on the spot

Thank you for your indepth analysis of this computer Paul, yo examine
it at a level that i could not even emagine doing

Anywase if all goes well the next post i make will be from my ne H
Pavilion Media Center TV m7330n PC :

Yes, we all know a lot about computers. That's why I tried to stee
you to your local shop. If you plan on doing anything with it a
all, over and above what it already is; don't by any store bough
machine

What good is it when you have to buy a video card right out of th
box, only to find out, you may need a power supply as well

It doesn't make sense and that's why enthusiasts only use custo
boxes. Granted, most of us build them ourselves

Cheer