Third power Supply about to die in a year and a half.

[inFocus]

Hello,

I would like to start that I am not very technical when it commes
to computer hardware. I have bought my computer about a year and half
ago and so far replaced 2 power sypplies and now getting ready from
doing it again. The computer is not from one of the major places but
from a custom build shop. The first time it happened the computer
started shutting down by itself and after couple attempts to boot up
died. A quick call to the place and i was told my power supply died
and then they would send me a replacement. Everything went well for
the next 5 months after which the power supply started to emit
painful high piched sounds that was really loud.

This time I went to the store and purchased a 600 watts Cooler Master
the first two were 550 watts dont remember the brand, now the third
power supply Cooler Master has started to omit winding kind of a noise
with occasional thumping or banging sounds from low to high.

If there is any additioanal information that would help I would be
glad to provide.

Any ideas why is that happening or I should just go and buy a fourth
one?

 

[Paul]

Hello,

I would like to start that I am not very technical when it commes
to computer hardware. I have bought my computer about a year and half
ago and so far replaced 2 power sypplies and now getting ready from
doing it again. The computer is not from one of the major places but
from a custom build shop. The first time it happened the computer
started shutting down by itself and after couple attempts to boot up
died. A quick call to the place and i was told my power supply died
and then they would send me a replacement. Everything went well for
the next 5 months after which the power supply started to emit
painful high piched sounds that was really loud.

This time I went to the store and purchased a 600 watts Cooler Master
the first two were 550 watts dont remember the brand, now the third
power supply Cooler Master has started to omit winding kind of a noise
with occasional thumping or banging sounds from low to high.

If there is any additioanal information that would help I would be
glad to provide.

Any ideas why is that happening or I should just go and buy a fourth
one?

I have a clamp-on DC ammeter, which can be used to measure the power
consumed on any wire of the main ATX connector. (That is a non-contact
measurement technology, that uses a Hall semiconductor. It senses the
magnetic field around the wire.) That is what I'd use to verify the
load being placed on the power supply. Some clamp-on ammeters are
AC only, but mine is an AC/DC and DC is what is inside the computer
on those wires.

On the one hand, a continual stream of poor quality power supplies
could die on you. There is nothing there to indicate the problem
lies elsewhere. It could be that the supplies are still the wrong
brand.

To select your next one, look at the "tiers" of supply brands
mentioned here. PCPowerAndCooling is pretty good (pcpower.com).
Their units still occasionally fail, but not like a Tier 5
supply would.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=108088

Paul

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

I have bought my computer about a year and half
ago and so far replaced 2 power supplies and now getting ready from
doing it again. The computer is not from one of the major places but
from a custom build shop. The first time it happened the computer
started shutting down by itself and after couple attempts to boot up
died. A quick call to the place and i was told my power supply died
and then they would send me a replacement. Everything went well for
the next 5 months after which the power supply started to emit
painful high piched sounds that was really loud.

This time I went to the store and purchased a 600 watts Cooler Master
the first two were 550 watts dont remember the brand, now the third
power supply Cooler Master has started to emit winding kind of a noise
with occasional thumping or banging sounds from low to high.

Coolermaster is made by several companies, including HiPro, Seventeam,
and ACBel, with the latter two being better manufacturers. Regardless
of the maker, I'm surprised that so many of your Coolermasters have
failed in such a short period. Some Coolermasters have no CSA or UL
safety certification numbers (UL's is under the funny 9U symbol),
which leads me to believe their certifications are fake.

 

[pcbuilder98]

Hello,

I would like to start that I am not very technical when it commes
to computer hardware. I have bought my computer about a year and half
ago and so far replaced 2 power sypplies and now getting ready from
doing it again. The computer is not from one of the major places but
from a custom build shop. The first time it happened the computer
started shutting down by itself and after couple attempts to boot up
died. A quick call to the place and i was told my power supply died
and then they would send me a replacement. Everything went well for
the next 5 months after which the power supply started to emit
painful high piched sounds that was really loud.

This time I went to the store and purchased a 600 watts Cooler Master
the first two were 550 watts dont remember the brand, now the third
power supply Cooler Master has started to omit winding kind of a noise
with occasional thumping or banging sounds from low to high.

If there is any additioanal information that would help I would be
glad to provide.

Any ideas why is that happening or I should just go and buy a fourth
one?

Check all fans for noisy operation. Check case fan(s) CPU fan, and video
card fan. All fans are replaceable except for the PS fan. Unplug all
connections from PS and turn on. Does it still make noise? Does your
computer sit on the floor? Is it very dusty inside? If so then PS may be
clogged with dust. Remove PS from case then remove cover then blow out dust.
Plug PS in and turn on. Does it still make noise or is it quiet? If PS still
noisy then I recommend you buy a power supply tester. Go to newegg (or your
favorite vendor) and search for tester. Or click link:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&Description=tester&bop=And&Pagesize=100
Noise could still be PS fan but at least you will know if the PS voltages
are right and then can either replace the PS or look for other cause of
noise or begin considering that something else is destroying the PS.
Good Luck
pcbuilder98

 

[johns]

Sounds like cheap psupply fans that are
getting stuck, and the psupply is overheating.

johns

 

[inFocus]

Hello,

I would like to start that I am not very technical when it commes
to computer hardware. I have bought my computer about a year and half
ago and so far replaced 2 power sypplies and now getting ready from
doing it again. The computer is not from one of the major places but
from a custom build shop. The first time it happened the computer
started shutting down by itself and after couple attempts to boot up
died. A quick call to the place and i was told my power supply died
and then they would send me a replacement. Everything went well for
the next 5 months after which the power supply started to emit
painful high piched sounds that was really loud.

This time I went to the store and purchased a 600 watts Cooler Master
the first two were 550 watts dont remember the brand, now the third
power supply Cooler Master has started to omit winding kind of a noise
with occasional thumping or banging sounds from low to high.

If there is any additioanal information that would help I would be
glad to provide.

Any ideas why is that happening or I should just go and buy a fourth
one?

I don't know if this matter but the computer is just

AMD Athlon 64x2 Dual Core 4200
2GB Ram

Would this be a good Power Supply?
Antec Neo High Efficiency 550W ATX PC Power Supply

or any recommendations?

 

[w_tom]

Would this be a good Power Supply?
Antec Neo High Efficiency 550W ATX PC Power Supply

or any recommendations?

At what point do you decide to identify the problem before 'fixing
it'? It is a power supply 'system'. Supply is only one component of
that system. Normal is for a computer to boot even though a defect
remains. Normal is for a perfectly good supply to change just enough
(still be perfectly good) so that the defect then creates failures.

Without numbers from a 3.5 digit multimeter, then no one can say
what is 'definitively good' and what is 'definitively bad'. Without
'definitive' answers, then it is called shotgunning.

Get the meter. In less than two minutes, get numbers as defined in
"When your computer dies without warning....." starting 6 Feb 2007 in
the newsgroup alt.windows-xp at:
http://tinyurl.com/yvf9vh
Then post numbers so that the next reply provides definitive answers
and extracts further information from those numbers. No more 'it
could be this or could be that' replies.

In your case, numbers for the gray, green, and purple wires would be
most significant both before and when power switch is pressed - for
both when computer boots and when it does not boot. If you swap
anything before obtaining numbers, then you may only destroy
informative information. First get facts (especially numbers) before
changing anything.

 

[mdp]

Hello,

I would like to start that I am not very technical when it commes
to computer hardware. I have bought my computer about a year and half
ago and so far replaced 2 power sypplies and now getting ready from
doing it again. The computer is not from one of the major places but
from a custom build shop. The first time it happened the computer
started shutting down by itself and after couple attempts to boot up
died. A quick call to the place and i was told my power supply died
and then they would send me a replacement. Everything went well for
the next 5 months after which the power supply started to emit
painful high piched sounds that was really loud.

This time I went to the store and purchased a 600 watts Cooler Master
the first two were 550 watts dont remember the brand, now the third
power supply Cooler Master has started to omit winding kind of a noise
with occasional thumping or banging sounds from low to high.

If there is any additioanal information that would help I would be
glad to provide.

Any ideas why is that happening or I should just go and buy a fourth
one?

You may have multiple problems starting with a noisy power line. Do you
have any noisy appliances, e.g. blow/hair driers, A/C, etc. on the same
circuit kicking in/out? An Uninteruptibal Power Supply (UPS) or a good
quality surge protector is good to have.

 

[SteveH]

At what point do you decide to identify the problem before 'fixing
it'? It is a power supply 'system'. Supply is only one component of
that system. Normal is for a computer to boot even though a defect
remains. Normal is for a perfectly good supply to change just enough
(still be perfectly good) so that the defect then creates failures.

Without numbers from a 3.5 digit multimeter, then no one can say
what is 'definitively good' and what is 'definitively bad'. Without
'definitive' answers, then it is called shotgunning.

Or firstly, get the side of the case off and identify /for sure/ where the
noises are coming from. It may not even be the PSU for all we know.

Do you go to bed with your damn multimeter or what? All you ever do is
witter on about the absolute necessity of one, without ever knowing whether
the person your are advising has the technical ability to even be poking
about inside their PC, let alone with a meter. With all due respect to the
o/p, you seem to neglect the fact that some people are just too stupid to be
even owning a PC, let alone poking about inside one.

I've fixed hundreds of PC's over the years, most of which are still working
fine. I think I've needed my meter no more than three times, the rest is
just experience.

SteveH

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

I don't know if this matter but the computer is just

AMD Athlon 64x2 Dual Core 4200
2GB Ram

To get an idea of your power needs, you also have to specify the
graphics card, hard drives, and optical drives. Here's a worksheet
that can estimate your power needs (use the free verson; don't bother
paying):

www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp

Here's an article showing what computers draw in real life, including
the amps at each voltage. The author used the kind of clamp-on AC/DC
amp probe that Paul mentioned:

www.silentpcreview.com/article265-page1.html

Would this be a good Power Supply?
Antec Neo High Efficiency 550W ATX PC Power Supply

or any recommendations?

First, make sure that your problem really is with the power supplies
by taking measurements as recomended by w_tom. Detailed instructions
can be found in the Overclockers.com forum about cases and power
supplies:

www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=403837

The Antec Neo HE is a very good choice, as are Antec's Trio and
EarthWatts models, and all three are made by Seasonic. Make sure that
any NeoHE that you buy is version A3 or later because older versions
wouldn't work with some motherboards when they went into power saving
modes. It's possible that Seasonic branded PSUs are cheaper than
those Antecs. Another good choice is Antec's budget line, Basiq,
because it's bade by Fortron-Source, and they're probably better than
Antec's more expensive SmartPower and TruePower models, not because
they can put out more power but because they're not made with crappy
Fuhjyyu brand capacitors, which are famous for going bad in 1-3
years. Fortron-Source's own brands, like Fortron, Sparkle, Hi-Q,
PowerQ, and Powertech (careful -- there's also Powertek, by a
different company), can be cheap as well, but some of them contain
Fuhjyyus (probably Hi-Q and PowerQ).

 

[Jim]

You may have multiple problems starting with a noisy power line. Do
you have any noisy appliances, e.g. blow/hair driers, A/C, etc. on
the same circuit kicking in/out? An Uninteruptibal Power Supply
(UPS) or a good quality surge protector is good to have.

Or he may be having just electric supply problems.

Years ago I went through power supplies constantly. Also light bulbs.
Long story made short was my power panel was failing and affecting
everything downstream of it.

 

[pcbuilder98]

To get an idea of your power needs, you also have to specify the
graphics card, hard drives, and optical drives. Here's a worksheet
that can estimate your power needs (use the free verson; don't bother
paying):

www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp

Here's an article showing what computers draw in real life, including
the amps at each voltage. The author used the kind of clamp-on AC/DC
amp probe that Paul mentioned:

www.silentpcreview.com/article265-page1.html


First, make sure that your problem really is with the power supplies
by taking measurements as recomended by w_tom. Detailed instructions
can be found in the Overclockers.com forum about cases and power
supplies:

www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=403837

The Antec Neo HE is a very good choice, as are Antec's Trio and
EarthWatts models, and all three are made by Seasonic. Make sure that
any NeoHE that you buy is version A3 or later because older versions
wouldn't work with some motherboards when they went into power saving
modes. It's possible that Seasonic branded PSUs are cheaper than
those Antecs. Another good choice is Antec's budget line, Basiq,
because it's bade by Fortron-Source, and they're probably better than
Antec's more expensive SmartPower and TruePower models, not because
they can put out more power but because they're not made with crappy
Fuhjyyu brand capacitors, which are famous for going bad in 1-3
years. Fortron-Source's own brands, like Fortron, Sparkle, Hi-Q,
PowerQ, and Powertech (careful -- there's also Powertek, by a
different company), can be cheap as well, but some of them contain
Fuhjyyus (probably Hi-Q and PowerQ).

I know you advised not to pick the pay version but why would anybody be so
gullible as to pay a $1.95 (or even a penny) for something to help them
select a product that the vendor is selling? Note that the link to the pay
version has a bright shiny button and the free version is just plain text.
It's frighteningly true, there IS a sucker born every minute! This is how I
spell scam: "Extreme Outer Vision Technologies". This company may sell some
quality products I can't say because I didn't look. Asking for money for
this so called service is enough to make me run away.

I tried the "free version". The first question asked is MB type. The choices
are: Regular, High End, Regular Server, etc. They give no hint about their
definition of these terms. They may as well have said "High End with whipped
cream and a cherry on top". I would have be more confident in their
recommendations if they had listed MB's by model number. To their credit at
least the wattage they calculated sounded reasonable so in the end this may
be of use to those who don't want to calculate power needs by reading
manuals and using pencil and paper.

Building a durable and quality power supply is not rocket science. As for
capacitors any electronics manufacturer who uses caps that would fail in as
little as 3 years is a fool. I have built more than one power supply and I
can tell you caps are one of the cheapest parts involved especially in a
manufacturing setting with volume pricing.

A quality power supply from a manufacturer with a good track record is an
important part of a reliable system. If you feel the need to buy a 5 giga
watt nuclear powered chrome plated power supply go ahead but make sure it's
not "all talk and no trousers!"
pcbuilder98