The Three-Year Itch

[JPD]

It's that time again.

I bought a Dell Dimension 8200 three years ago, mostly to run MS
Office apps, Photoshop, and music-notation programs. I had hoped it
would also be good for occasional gaming, home-recording of
guitar-playing, and video-editing.

It wasn't.

MS Office apps were constantly hanging, games would crash, Photoshop
was disappointing, and I never bothered to try it with home-recording.
In fact, the older P3 system I'd built and overclocked prior to the
Dell was a lot more reliable.

Well, now I'd like to try building my own again. This time around I'm
looking for stabililty and compatibility (of course), but I'd also
like to have some fun with it -- that is, I'd like to enjoy snappy
performance from the machine.

I'm thinking about a P4 processor. Is a 2.8 GHz sufficient, or do I
need to look higher? Do the latest popular games require higher? I
don't need to have the fastest PC on the block (not yet, anyway ,
but neither do I want the games to be unplayable.

The next issue is the HDD subsystem. In past machines I've built or
upgraded, I've simply bought a new IDE drive and used the old drive as
an internal backup or secondary drive. Nothing fancy. But now I'm
wondering if I want to get into SCSI, SATA, RAID, or who knows what.
RAID seems too tricky, SATA seems too new, but I don't really know.
Should I plunge into a more involved HDD subsystem?

One notion that sort of appeals to me is to have a Seagate Cheetah 15k
SCSI drive for the OS and programs, and another 15k Cheetah for
whatever else. In the "old days" it was often recommended to place the
OS on one drive and data on another, giving a nice performance boost
-- especially when it came to digital audio workstations (DAWs) -- but
I never tried it and I don't know. Maybe that advice no longer
applies?

I haven't thought much about which motherboard to get, since it seems
to me that I first ought to know which processor and hard drive(s) I
want. (If I want SCSI drives, maybe I want an onboard SCSI
controller?) As for the OS, I'm thinking XP Pro. I've been using W2K
Pro on three of the four machines on the wireless home LAN, and XP
Home on the laptop for the past year or so. I like XP better.

Anyway, it's obvious that I really need guidance on this. I think if I
can get a handle on these two factors -- the processor and the HDD(s)
-- the rest will fall a lot more easily into place.

Any help will be greatly appreciated!

JPD

 

[Richard Dower]

<snip>

Buy the best you can afford.

 

[Dave C.]

It's that time again.

I bought a Dell Dimension 8200 three years ago, mostly to run MS
Office apps, Photoshop, and music-notation programs. I had hoped it
would also be good for occasional gaming, home-recording of
guitar-playing, and video-editing.

It wasn't.

MS Office apps were constantly hanging, games would crash, Photoshop
was disappointing, and I never bothered to try it with home-recording.
In fact, the older P3 system I'd built and overclocked prior to the
Dell was a lot more reliable.

Well, now I'd like to try building my own again. This time around I'm
looking for stabililty and compatibility (of course), but I'd also
like to have some fun with it -- that is, I'd like to enjoy snappy
performance from the machine.

I'm thinking about a P4 processor. Is a 2.8 GHz sufficient, or do I
need to look higher? Do the latest popular games require higher? I
don't need to have the fastest PC on the block (not yet, anyway ,
but neither do I want the games to be unplayable.

The next issue is the HDD subsystem. In past machines I've built or
upgraded, I've simply bought a new IDE drive and used the old drive as
an internal backup or secondary drive. Nothing fancy. But now I'm
wondering if I want to get into SCSI, SATA, RAID, or who knows what.
RAID seems too tricky, SATA seems too new, but I don't really know.
Should I plunge into a more involved HDD subsystem?

(snip)

Games require a fast processor, but most of the processing of games is
handled by the video card. Whatever system you decide to build, plan to
spend just as much money (or more) on your video card as you spend on your
CPU. From what I've read, SATA offers no performance increase over IDE.
BUT, as you will want SATA for your next system, it's probably a good idea
to build with SATA now. You can raid or not, that's up to you. I'd suggest
you buy the largest 7200RPM SATA drive you can afford. Just about any SATA
motherboard today will also have IDE support, so you can use your current
drive(s) as backup space. -Dave

 

[Apollo]

It's that time again.

I bought a Dell Dimension 8200 three years ago, mostly to run MS
Office apps, Photoshop, and music-notation programs. I had hoped it
would also be good for occasional gaming, home-recording of
guitar-playing, and video-editing.

It wasn't.

It was a Dell, what do you expect, good business machines, that's about all.

MS Office apps were constantly hanging, games would crash, Photoshop
was disappointing, and I never bothered to try it with home-recording.
In fact, the older P3 system I'd built and overclocked prior to the
Dell was a lot more reliable.

Well, now I'd like to try building my own again. This time around I'm
looking for stabililty and compatibility (of course), but I'd also
like to have some fun with it -- that is, I'd like to enjoy snappy
performance from the machine.

I'm thinking about a P4 processor. Is a 2.8 GHz sufficient, or do I
need to look higher? Do the latest popular games require higher? I
don't need to have the fastest PC on the block (not yet, anyway ,
but neither do I want the games to be unplayable.

For digital video editing go for I'd Intel rather than AMD, faster rendering
I believe.
Not sure which model, read up on the pros & cons of Northwood vs Prescot
cores.

The next issue is the HDD subsystem. In past machines I've built or
upgraded, I've simply bought a new IDE drive and used the old drive as
an internal backup or secondary drive. Nothing fancy. But now I'm
wondering if I want to get into SCSI, SATA, RAID, or who knows what.
RAID seems too tricky, SATA seems too new, but I don't really know.
Should I plunge into a more involved HDD subsystem?

IMHO you don't need raid for what you're doing, sure you get a speed
increase of around 30% with raid0, but remember that backups are very
critical for raid0, you loose 1 drive and all your stuff is gone forever.

SATA works fine, no problems here after running for over 12 months. It's
not that much faster than PATA really, I believe that will change with the
next release of SATA though.

One notion that sort of appeals to me is to have a Seagate Cheetah 15k
SCSI drive for the OS and programs, and another 15k Cheetah for
whatever else. In the "old days" it was often recommended to place the
OS on one drive and data on another, giving a nice performance boost
-- especially when it came to digital audio workstations (DAWs) -- but
I never tried it and I don't know. Maybe that advice no longer
applies?

That's a fast drive, if you've got the cash then go for it, bear in mind
that an hour of dv footage comes in at around 12-15GB plus a few more GB for
editing etc. I do some dv editing and space runs out like you wouldn't
believe, currently about 60GB free from 560GB (4 drives).

I haven't thought much about which motherboard to get, since it seems
to me that I first ought to know which processor and hard drive(s) I
want. (If I want SCSI drives, maybe I want an onboard SCSI
controller?) As for the OS, I'm thinking XP Pro. I've been using W2K
Pro on three of the four machines on the wireless home LAN, and XP
Home on the laptop for the past year or so. I like XP better.

I'll let someone else recommend the mobo, it's been a while since I used
Intel. Use the OS you like best.

Anyway, it's obvious that I really need guidance on this. I think if I
can get a handle on these two factors -- the processor and the HDD(s)
-- the rest will fall a lot more easily into place.

Any help will be greatly appreciated!

HTH

 

[Roy Coorne]

It's that time again.

I bought a Dell Dimension 8200 three years ago, mostly to run MS
Office apps, Photoshop, and music-notation programs. I had hoped it
would also be good for occasional gaming, home-recording of
guitar-playing, and video-editing.

It wasn't.

MS Office apps were constantly hanging, games would crash, Photoshop
was disappointing, and I never bothered to try it with home-recording.
In fact, the older P3 system I'd built and overclocked prior to the
Dell was a lot more reliable.

Well, now I'd like to try building my own again. This time around I'm
looking for stabililty and compatibility (of course), but I'd also
like to have some fun with it -- that is, I'd like to enjoy snappy
performance from the machine.

I'm thinking about a P4 processor. Is a 2.8 GHz sufficient, or do I
need to look higher? Do the latest popular games require higher? I
don't need to have the fastest PC on the block (not yet, anyway ,
but neither do I want the games to be unplayable.

The next issue is the HDD subsystem. In past machines I've built or
upgraded, I've simply bought a new IDE drive and used the old drive as
an internal backup or secondary drive. Nothing fancy. But now I'm
wondering if I want to get into SCSI, SATA, RAID, or who knows what.
RAID seems too tricky, SATA seems too new, but I don't really know.
Should I plunge into a more involved HDD subsystem?

One notion that sort of appeals to me is to have a Seagate Cheetah 15k
SCSI drive for the OS and programs, and another 15k Cheetah for
whatever else. In the "old days" it was often recommended to place the
OS on one drive and data on another, giving a nice performance boost
-- especially when it came to digital audio workstations (DAWs) -- but
I never tried it and I don't know. Maybe that advice no longer
applies?

I haven't thought much about which motherboard to get, since it seems
to me that I first ought to know which processor and hard drive(s) I
want. (If I want SCSI drives, maybe I want an onboard SCSI
controller?) As for the OS, I'm thinking XP Pro. I've been using W2K
Pro on three of the four machines on the wireless home LAN, and XP
Home on the laptop for the past year or so. I like XP better.

Anyway, it's obvious that I really need guidance on this. I think if I
can get a handle on these two factors -- the processor and the HDD(s)
-- the rest will fall a lot more easily into place.

Any help will be greatly appreciated!

I would consider
- either an Athlon 64 (not FX)
- or a Pentium 4 Northwood (not Prescott)
and a S-ATA HDD by Samsung.

Roy

 

[Mac Cool]

(e-mail address removed) (JPD) said:

Well, now I'd like to try building my own again. This time around I'm
looking for stabililty and compatibility (of course), but I'd also
like to have some fun with it -- that is, I'd like to enjoy snappy
performance from the machine.

I'm thinking about a P4 processor. Is a 2.8 GHz sufficient

Decide what games and applications you are going to use and then review
the benchmarks & advice available at:
http://arstechnica.com/guide/system/index.html
http://firingsquad.com/guides/
http://www.anandtech.com/guides/index.html
http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030217/index.html
http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031229/index.html

Do the latest popular games require higher?

Which games? Far Cry will take everything you can throw at it, ditto for
Halo, The Sims is a lot more lenient. Your choice of video card is going
to be just as important as your choice of processor if you want to play
games. Be prepared to spend as much on a vid card as you do on your
processor.

The next issue is the HDD subsystem.

Really an individual choice. You should find some guidance on those
links I gave.

I haven't thought much about which motherboard to get, since it seems
to me that I first ought to know which processor and hard drive(s) I
want. (If I want SCSI drives, maybe I want an onboard SCSI
controller?)

I think an onboard SCSI controller will limit your choices drastically.
You have to decide if SCSI offers significant advantage for the
additional cost, for most people it does not.

As for the OS, I'm thinking XP Pro. I've been using W2K
Pro on three of the four machines on the wireless home LAN, and XP
Home on the laptop for the past year or so. I like XP better.

Anyway, it's obvious that I really need guidance on this.

You may want to check out the forums on the sites I listed. This forum
is very helpful also: http://www.hardforum.com/

 

[Dick Sidbury]

It's that time again.

I bought a Dell Dimension 8200 three years ago, mostly to run MS
Office apps, Photoshop, and music-notation programs. I had hoped it
would also be good for occasional gaming, home-recording of
guitar-playing, and video-editing.

It wasn't.

MS Office apps were constantly hanging, games would crash, Photoshop
was disappointing, and I never bothered to try it with home-recording.
In fact, the older P3 system I'd built and overclocked prior to the
Dell was a lot more reliable.

Well, now I'd like to try building my own again. This time around I'm
looking for stabililty and compatibility (of course), but I'd also
like to have some fun with it -- that is, I'd like to enjoy snappy
performance from the machine.

I'm thinking about a P4 processor. Is a 2.8 GHz sufficient, or do I
need to look higher? Do the latest popular games require higher? I
don't need to have the fastest PC on the block (not yet, anyway ,
but neither do I want the games to be unplayable.

The next issue is the HDD subsystem. In past machines I've built or
upgraded, I've simply bought a new IDE drive and used the old drive as
an internal backup or secondary drive. Nothing fancy. But now I'm
wondering if I want to get into SCSI, SATA, RAID, or who knows what.
RAID seems too tricky, SATA seems too new, but I don't really know.
Should I plunge into a more involved HDD subsystem?

One notion that sort of appeals to me is to have a Seagate Cheetah 15k
SCSI drive for the OS and programs, and another 15k Cheetah for
whatever else. In the "old days" it was often recommended to place the
OS on one drive and data on another, giving a nice performance boost
-- especially when it came to digital audio workstations (DAWs) -- but
I never tried it and I don't know. Maybe that advice no longer
applies?

I haven't thought much about which motherboard to get, since it seems
to me that I first ought to know which processor and hard drive(s) I
want. (If I want SCSI drives, maybe I want an onboard SCSI
controller?) As for the OS, I'm thinking XP Pro. I've been using W2K
Pro on three of the four machines on the wireless home LAN, and XP
Home on the laptop for the past year or so. I like XP better.

Anyway, it's obvious that I really need guidance on this. I think if I
can get a handle on these two factors -- the processor and the HDD(s)
-- the rest will fall a lot more easily into place.

Any help will be greatly appreciated!

JPD

I'd suggest that you consider a mini-system, such as one of the Shuttle
XPC's or Soltek Qbic. Here is the newegg page that lists these items
http://www.newegg.com/app/manufactory.asp?catalog=3&DEPA=0
They are small and easy to move around. They have good built in sound
and networking and some of them have decent video. It seems that the
prices for SATA are about 10 dollars more than IDE (compare on newegg
for 160gb drives). There's no real advantage to RAID that I have found.
And one of my machine's main tasks is video capture and editing. I'd
go for at least 512 mb memory, no more than 1 gb. Personally I go for
big disk drives with a box that small.

dick

 

[ToolPackinMama]

http://arstechnica.com/guide/system/index.html
http://firingsquad.com/guides/
http://www.anandtech.com/guides/index.html
http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030217/index.html
http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031229/index.html

Great links, thanks.

 

[Stacey]

It's that time again.

I bought a Dell Dimension 8200 three years ago, mostly to run MS
Office apps, Photoshop, and music-notation programs. I had hoped it
would also be good for occasional gaming, home-recording of
guitar-playing, and video-editing.

It wasn't.

MS Office apps were constantly hanging, games would crash, Photoshop
was disappointing, and I never bothered to try it with home-recording.
In fact, the older P3 system I'd built and overclocked prior to the
Dell was a lot more reliable.

Well, now I'd like to try building my own again. This time around I'm
looking for stabililty and compatibility (of course), but I'd also
like to have some fun with it -- that is, I'd like to enjoy snappy
performance from the machine.

I'm thinking about a P4 processor. Is a 2.8 GHz sufficient, or do I
need to look higher? Do the latest popular games require higher? I
don't need to have the fastest PC on the block (not yet, anyway ,
but neither do I want the games to be unplayable.

SHould be plenty and a good platform for video work. If you hadn't mentioned
video editing, I'd say get an AMD.

The next issue is the HDD subsystem. In past machines I've built or
upgraded, I've simply bought a new IDE drive and used the old drive as
an internal backup or secondary drive. Nothing fancy. But now I'm
wondering if I want to get into SCSI, SATA, RAID, or who knows what.
RAID seems too tricky, SATA seems too new, but I don't really know.
Should I plunge into a more involved HDD subsystem?

Nope, no advantage IMHO in sata or scsi right now and raid is risky, not
needed for your use IMHO. Just get a fast pata drive and go on.

 

[Louise]

It was a Dell, what do you expect, good business machines, that's about all.


For digital video editing go for I'd Intel rather than AMD, faster rendering
I believe.
Not sure which model, read up on the pros & cons of Northwood vs Prescot
cores.


IMHO you don't need raid for what you're doing, sure you get a speed
increase of around 30% with raid0, but remember that backups are very
critical for raid0, you loose 1 drive and all your stuff is gone forever.

SATA works fine, no problems here after running for over 12 months. It's
not that much faster than PATA really, I believe that will change with the
next release of SATA though.

The cable is also much thinner on SATA and that improves overall
cooling.

Louise