Switching Slave hdd to Master problem

[Rob]

I have 2 SATA hdd, both 160gb wired to a Biostar PT4VTG mobo. The Master is
a Maxtor that had been loading XP Home SP2 just fine. The new Slave is a WD
WA1600AAJB that had the jumpers set 'enable 3-4' (per mfr). I formatted and
partitioned the Slave the same as the Master. (In Windows Disk Management
the Master was Drive 1 on C: and the Slave was Drive 2). Boot up listed the
names of the 2 hdd's correctly as Primary and Secondary. After disk cleanup,
final virus check I was just about to image the Master to Slave a week later
when an error occurred where XP wouldn't complete. (Timing sucks!) Possibly
a significant failure of not being able to load User properly (kernel?) that
I frustratingly tried but don't have the expertise to fix, so I thought I
would install XP on the Slave and boot from that. As a side note, I was
starting to install Ghost but abandoned it as I didn't feel comfortable at
the time about a final step.
I disconnected the Master and when I tried to load XP onto the WD Slave I
got a 'DISK BOOT ERROR' - seems logical as it wasn't setup. Continuing, I
booted from the XP cd. Windows Setup loads and at the next screen there are
3 choices of XP Install, remove partition or create partition. I also notice
that it's not detecting any of 4 disk drives (generic?hdd's & cdrom's?).
When I choose any key it consistently goes to BSOD Stop error 0x...08E.
File setupdd.sys.

I've tried removing the hdd jumper to make it a Master (as per mfr
instructions on the disk) but boot up does not recognize the disk now. The
same errors occur when going through Windows Setup. I've tried changing the
CMOS boot sequence from HDD0 (which was the Maxtor Master) to HDD1 thinking
that might work to recognize the WD but to no avail.
No other hardware changes.
What can I do to get bootup to recognize the WD hdd as a Master and be able
to install XP on it?

TIA for suggestions.
Rob

 

[John McGaw]

I have 2 SATA hdd, both 160gb wired to a Biostar PT4VTG mobo. The Master is
a Maxtor that had been loading XP Home SP2 just fine. The new Slave is a WD
WA1600AAJB that had the jumpers set 'enable 3-4' (per mfr). I formatted and

snip...

Huh? When did SATA drives start having this master/slave relationship?
Sounds unhealthy to me.

If the Western Digital drive happened to be a WD1600AAJB then it would be
an old-style parallel IDE unit. They don't admit to making a WA.... unit
from what I can tell so I'll assume that you simply typo'd that.

You could have something a simple as a bad IDE cable -- many of them are
not very well made and the simple act of moving one that has been in use to
add a second drive to the string can break a conductor. When that happens
then all bets are off -- it might seem to work fine, or it might not work
at all, or it might give erratic errors. You might first try installing a
new 80-conductor cable, being careful to install it in the proper direction
(yes, with these it _does_ matter very much) and try starting the system
with only the single HD jumpered to master on one channel and the optical
drive on the other channel, also jumpered to master and try again. Keep all
the additional drives out of the picture until you are sure that the
simplest possible arrangement works.

 

[Joel]

I have 2 SATA hdd, both 160gb wired to a Biostar PT4VTG mobo. The Master is
a Maxtor that had been loading XP Home SP2 just fine. The new Slave is a WD
WA1600AAJB that had the jumpers set 'enable 3-4' (per mfr). I formatted and
partitioned the Slave the same as the Master. (In Windows Disk Management
the Master was Drive 1 on C: and the Slave was Drive 2). Boot up listed the
names of the 2 hdd's correctly as Primary and Secondary. After disk cleanup,
final virus check I was just about to image the Master to Slave a week later
when an error occurred where XP wouldn't complete. (Timing sucks!) Possibly
a significant failure of not being able to load User properly (kernel?) that
I frustratingly tried but don't have the expertise to fix, so I thought I
would install XP on the Slave and boot from that. As a side note, I was
starting to install Ghost but abandoned it as I didn't feel comfortable at
the time about a final step.
I disconnected the Master and when I tried to load XP onto the WD Slave I
got a 'DISK BOOT ERROR' - seems logical as it wasn't setup. Continuing, I
booted from the XP cd. Windows Setup loads and at the next screen there are
3 choices of XP Install, remove partition or create partition. I also notice
that it's not detecting any of 4 disk drives (generic?hdd's & cdrom's?).
When I choose any key it consistently goes to BSOD Stop error 0x...08E.
File setupdd.sys.

I've tried removing the hdd jumper to make it a Master (as per mfr
instructions on the disk) but boot up does not recognize the disk now. The
same errors occur when going through Windows Setup. I've tried changing the
CMOS boot sequence from HDD0 (which was the Maxtor Master) to HDD1 thinking
that might work to recognize the WD but to no avail.
No other hardware changes.
What can I do to get bootup to recognize the WD hdd as a Master and be able
to install XP on it?

TIA for suggestions.
Rob

Way way back to around Mid 80's I have noticed Maxtor & WD doesn't get
along quite well, and WD often want to be MASTER and this usually work. Then
until mid 2000's I tried another Maxtor and again WD still want to be the
MASTER.

And of course *if* you READ, I dumped the Maxtors as I just don't have any
luck with the Maxtor from 80's til mid 2000's was my last Maxtors (2 failed
or one original and 1 replacement).

 

[Rob]

Indeed. Biostar P4VTG (not PT4VTG) does have two SATA ports
but it seems these are PATA not SATA drives.



... and it's probably not working jumpered to Master because
it needs jumpered to Single when there's no other drive on
the same cable.

Thanks for your input.
First, to clarify, the mobo is a P4VTG and yep the model is WD...(sorry)
The WD appears to be a SATA (rather than PATA) with 8-pin jumper block. Uses
SATA cable interface to SATA1 connection on the mobo. P4VTG is compatible
for SATA1 according to the mobo manual. The model is WD1600AAJB 00WRA0 WD
Caviar SE. I see your point about SATA not being a real Master/Slave
relationship but that's kind of the way WD describe the jumper instruction
on the hd for 'dual' (Master or Slave) for 2 drive operation. So it's
jumpered for Single (no shunt required) to make it a "Single standard
installation". That's how I'm trying to run it.
I've also tried the other original SATA cable but no change.
What would you suggest as next step?

Thanks
Rob

 

[Rob]

WD1600AAJB is a PATA, not SATA drive. "JB" indicates
Parallel ATA/EIDE. In the same family of drives, "KS"
replaces JB to indicate SATA.

SATA drives don't have master, slave, or single settings.
The only way you could connect a WD1600AAJB to an SATA
controller is if you bought an adapter board that plugs into
the back of the drive.




According to the following jumper sheet, it appears you have
it jumpered correctly.
http://www.wdc.com/en/library/eide/2579-001037.pdf



Try unplugging all drives except the WD as Master at the end
of the cable alone (jumpered as Single meaning no jumper).
On the other IDE cable, leave only the CDROM drive. Make
sure all other drives have both their data cables and power
cables unplugged.

See if windows will now see and attempt installation to the
WD. If not, boot to and run the Western Digital diagnostics
for DOS

(CD)
http://support.wdc.com/product/download.asp?groupid=502&sid=30&lang=en
(or Floppy)
http://support.wdc.com/product/download.asp?groupid=502&sid=2&lang=en

and first of all, try these jumper settings instead of the
ones linked above.
http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=707&p_created=#jumper

On the first step, your link for alt jumper settings is not for an 8-pin
hd - 6, 9 or 10. Mine's an 8. I'll assume the 'single' setting is still good
as you advised above.
Next, I tried the WD diagnostic bootable cd file Diag504cCD.iso. When it
tried to boot, using only the WD hd plugged in (as above), after about 15
seconds of 'trying', it ended with a DISK ERROR and wouldn't boot from the
disk. Checked the power, hd was warm so it was at least spinning. Also tried
changing CMOS to boot HD0 and then HD1 but no change. Now that's a strange
one and should point to something.

Just to check if the SATA cable was okay, I hooked up the Maxtor hd and it
booted okay thru Windows to Welcome screen. (Can't go any further as
mentioned)

I bought the drive as a SATA as the mobo allows 2 SATA hdd. It appears to be
a PATA. Perhaps this is the root of the problem, yet originally, I formatted
and partitioned it, so it was working! The only thing left not checked is
the original condition, with dual drives and the WD set as 'Slave' (heh,
heh) okay, 'dual' with jumper 3-4 so the boot sequence shows the WD as a
second drive.

Anything further before I take it in to a shop or pass it over to a friend
so they can try and figure it out?

 

[Rob]

I suggest trying it instead of assuming.




Maybe, or it could just mean the disc was bad or the burn
failed.



It's not an SATA hard drive so as mentioned previously,
unless you are using an adapter board, it is a PATA cable
not a SATA cable.



Check your receipt to be sure. If recently purchased and
it's SATA while the receipt shows a different model #,
return it for a refund. Actually you might do that anyway
if you want an SATA instead of PATA.



Yes, try different jumper settings for Single drive. What
does the label on the drive indicate? Jumpering 1-2 and 7-8
should be the next trial, leaving the drive alone (no slave
present) at the end of one PATA cable.

I've tried all different jumper settings and can't get boot to read it. Note
that the hd label indicates 10-pin jumpers yet the actual block is an 8-pin.
Mislabelled?
Label says Slave is a 3-4, Master w/Slave Present is a 5-6 and Single or
Master is NUL. I even tried a 3-5 for the Single Neutral as in the WD site's
10-pin diagram for WD1800JB. (I've even advised WD that there KB Spec link
for WD160AAJB is wrong - comes up WD1800JB)
Next, I re-burned the WD Diagnostic on cd and tried to boot from that -
failed to boot. To be expected as boot up says 'no device' and I assume the
program would not load if no hd detected. Reasonable? (no explanation at WD)
Lastly, I tried hooking the Maxtor back up to the original working
installation. (It's a DiamondMax Plus 9 160GB HDD SATA 150) Bootup
recognized the Maxtor but not the WD. Tried variations of cable switching
and jumper settings on the WD but bootup NEVER recognized the WD!

Seems like best solution is to take it in to where I bought the WD and let
them review the PC and remotely test the WD, especially considering this
appears to be a PATA drive.

Any other ideas?

 

[Joel]

I've tried all different jumper settings and can't get boot to read it. Note
that the hd label indicates 10-pin jumpers yet the actual block is an 8-pin.
Mislabelled?
Label says Slave is a 3-4, Master w/Slave Present is a 5-6 and Single or
Master is NUL. I even tried a 3-5 for the Single Neutral as in the WD site's
10-pin diagram for WD1800JB. (I've even advised WD that there KB Spec link
for WD160AAJB is wrong - comes up WD1800JB)
Next, I re-burned the WD Diagnostic on cd and tried to boot from that -
failed to boot. To be expected as boot up says 'no device' and I assume the
program would not load if no hd detected. Reasonable? (no explanation at WD)
Lastly, I tried hooking the Maxtor back up to the original working
installation. (It's a DiamondMax Plus 9 160GB HDD SATA 150) Bootup
recognized the Maxtor but not the WD. Tried variations of cable switching
and jumper settings on the WD but bootup NEVER recognized the WD!

Seems like best solution is to take it in to where I bought the WD and let
them review the PC and remotely test the WD, especially considering this
appears to be a PATA drive.

Any other ideas?

Me? I think we just need to follow the RULE instead of funny idea. And I
just go based on your information

MASTER

[oo] = Master w/Slave Present
oo = Single or Master

SLAVE

oo = Master w/Slave Present
[oo] = SLAVE

 

[Rob]

I've tried all different jumper settings and can't get boot to read it.
Note
that the hd label indicates 10-pin jumpers yet the actual block is an
8-pin.
Mislabelled?
Label says Slave is a 3-4, Master w/Slave Present is a 5-6 and Single or
Master is NUL. I even tried a 3-5 for the Single Neutral as in the WD
site's
10-pin diagram for WD1800JB. (I've even advised WD that there KB Spec
link
for WD160AAJB is wrong - comes up WD1800JB)
Next, I re-burned the WD Diagnostic on cd and tried to boot from that -
failed to boot. To be expected as boot up says 'no device' and I assume
the
program would not load if no hd detected. Reasonable? (no explanation at
WD)
Lastly, I tried hooking the Maxtor back up to the original working
installation. (It's a DiamondMax Plus 9 160GB HDD SATA 150) Bootup
recognized the Maxtor but not the WD. Tried variations of cable switching
and jumper settings on the WD but bootup NEVER recognized the WD!

Seems like best solution is to take it in to where I bought the WD and
let
them review the PC and remotely test the WD, especially considering this
appears to be a PATA drive.

Any other ideas?

Me? I think we just need to follow the RULE instead of funny idea. And I
just go based on your information

MASTER

[oo] = Master w/Slave Present
oo = Single or Master

SLAVE

oo = Master w/Slave Present
[oo] = SLAVE

Some good (embarrassing) news and some not so good news............
I took it into the shop. After pulling the WD drive, noticed it was a
WD1600AAJS. That's a SATA. The WD160AAJB was the IDE I bought first which
did not work in the PC because it was SATA so put it in the second PC which
is IDE. I mixed up the reference pics I took of the drives (sorry).
The not so good is the tech had the same issue with the WD while I was there
and he could not get it to recognize it, so I left it there for his
challenge. I'd hazzard to guess it's a faulty hd or CMOS/BIOS issue.
Will post results in a couple of days. While I wait, I have a simple
question. The Drive is SATA II per
http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1340,
backwards compatible to SATA 1 which my mobo is configured for. I notice
diff jumper settings for Default 1 thru OPT1. What is the diff between 1 and
2 that may be required in my case such as a jumper setting (like 5-6)?
Thanks for assistance to get to this stage. Cheers!

 

[Paul]

Some good (embarrassing) news and some not so good news............
I took it into the shop. After pulling the WD drive, noticed it was a
WD1600AAJS. That's a SATA. The WD160AAJB was the IDE I bought first which
did not work in the PC because it was SATA so put it in the second PC which
is IDE. I mixed up the reference pics I took of the drives (sorry).
The not so good is the tech had the same issue with the WD while I was there
and he could not get it to recognize it, so I left it there for his
challenge. I'd hazzard to guess it's a faulty hd or CMOS/BIOS issue.
Will post results in a couple of days. While I wait, I have a simple
question. The Drive is SATA II per
http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1340,
backwards compatible to SATA 1 which my mobo is configured for. I notice
diff jumper settings for Default 1 thru OPT1. What is the diff between 1 and
2 that may be required in my case such as a jumper setting (like 5-6)?
Thanks for assistance to get to this stage. Cheers!

OPT1 is used to control the "Force 150" function, which is something
you'd use, if the drive was to be connected to a VIA (150MB/sec)
SATA port. Normally, a drive can auto-negotiate the speed,
and would not need forcing. (So with many 150MB/sec only SATA
ports, you could connect the drive and not need a jumper.) The
VIA chipsets have some issue with that (like say a VT8237), so
the Force 150 jumper (OPT1 in this case), would need to be installed.
There is a Seagate document, that mentions problems with VIA chips.

The documentation on SSC is confusing, and perhaps the label
stuck to the drive, has clearer information. For example,
on this drive, the label is suggestive of the drive leaving
the factory with no jumpers on it, and with no jumper on 1-2,
SSC is disabled. (Apparently, enabling SSC upsets older
Macintosh computers - found that on a Mac site.)

http://www.hothardware.com/articleimages/item1118/big_wdgp1tbhdds_4.jpg

It is too bad they couldn't have adopted a consistent story
on the jumpering. But it looks like both kinds of controllers
may have existed, and the sense of the jumper is different
between them. And as you'd expect, there is no guarantee that
the label affixed to the drive, actually corresponds to the
product it ships with.

I tried looking at the Hitachi Feature Tool, to see if it
could read out the jumper value for SSC. But it only appears
to have the ability to set the value via the drive interface.
(Because Hitachi doesn't have jumpers on the back ?)

I also checked the copy of HDTune I have here, and it doesn't
show the value. I'd have to dig up an ATA/ATAPI spec, to see
if the value actually is recorded in the interface or not.
A project for another day perhaps...

SSC or Spread Spectrum Clocking, is a slow clock modulation
function, intended to fool test instruments used for FCC
testing. By modulating the clock signal, a scan in a test chamber
may report a lower EMI reading, than if the clock stands
still. In the real world, I'm not sure that there is any
guarantee that SSC helps with interference with other
devices.

Paul

 

[Rob]

OPT1 is used to control the "Force 150" function, which is something
you'd use, if the drive was to be connected to a VIA (150MB/sec)
SATA port. Normally, a drive can auto-negotiate the speed,
and would not need forcing. (So with many 150MB/sec only SATA
ports, you could connect the drive and not need a jumper.) The
VIA chipsets have some issue with that (like say a VT8237), so
the Force 150 jumper (OPT1 in this case), would need to be installed.
There is a Seagate document, that mentions problems with VIA chips.

The documentation on SSC is confusing, and perhaps the label
stuck to the drive, has clearer information. For example,
on this drive, the label is suggestive of the drive leaving
the factory with no jumpers on it, and with no jumper on 1-2,
SSC is disabled. (Apparently, enabling SSC upsets older
Macintosh computers - found that on a Mac site.)

http://www.hothardware.com/articleimages/item1118/big_wdgp1tbhdds_4.jpg

It is too bad they couldn't have adopted a consistent story
on the jumpering. But it looks like both kinds of controllers
may have existed, and the sense of the jumper is different
between them. And as you'd expect, there is no guarantee that
the label affixed to the drive, actually corresponds to the
product it ships with.

I tried looking at the Hitachi Feature Tool, to see if it
could read out the jumper value for SSC. But it only appears
to have the ability to set the value via the drive interface.
(Because Hitachi doesn't have jumpers on the back ?)

I also checked the copy of HDTune I have here, and it doesn't
show the value. I'd have to dig up an ATA/ATAPI spec, to see
if the value actually is recorded in the interface or not.
A project for another day perhaps...

SSC or Spread Spectrum Clocking, is a slow clock modulation
function, intended to fool test instruments used for FCC
testing. By modulating the clock signal, a scan in a test chamber
may report a lower EMI reading, than if the clock stands
still. In the real world, I'm not sure that there is any
guarantee that SSC helps with interference with other
devices.

Paul

Thanks Paul. It just clicked that setting jumpers to OPT1 worked before on
my South Bridge VT8237. I did set jumper to 5-6 in my tests this time and it
didn't solve so case is building against faulty drive. Will wait for the
tech's report. At least I don't have to consider the SSC jumper.

 

[Joel]

Me? I think we just need to follow the RULE instead of funny idea. And I
just go based on your information

MASTER

[oo] = Master w/Slave Present
oo = Single or Master

SLAVE

oo = Master w/Slave Present
[oo] = SLAVE

Some good (embarrassing) news and some not so good news............
I took it into the shop. After pulling the WD drive, noticed it was a
WD1600AAJS. That's a SATA. The WD160AAJB was the IDE I bought first which
did not work in the PC because it was SATA so put it in the second PC which
is IDE. I mixed up the reference pics I took of the drives (sorry).
The not so good is the tech had the same issue with the WD while I was there
and he could not get it to recognize it, so I left it there for his
challenge. I'd hazzard to guess it's a faulty hd or CMOS/BIOS issue.
Will post results in a couple of days. While I wait, I have a simple
question. The Drive is SATA II per
http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1340,
backwards compatible to SATA 1 which my mobo is configured for. I notice
diff jumper settings for Default 1 thru OPT1. What is the diff between 1 and
2 that may be required in my case such as a jumper setting (like 5-6)?
Thanks for assistance to get to this stage. Cheers!

Ain't that SATA and IDE 2 different type of connectors? I have SATA
drives but they are external to know much about SATA, I only know that they
came with different connector and I have never seen nor heard any cable
supports both IDE & SATA on same cable.

IOW, the more to read your problem the more confuse I have. Or *if* they
are connected to 2 different cable then NO Master/Slave need.

 

[Rob]

Thanks Paul. It just clicked that setting jumpers to OPT1 worked before on
my South Bridge VT8237. I did set jumper to 5-6 in my tests this time and
it didn't solve so case is building against faulty drive. Will wait for
the tech's report. At least I don't have to consider the SSC jumper.

Tech says capacitor blown.
I have one suggestion so far to replace the mobo with this: ASRock P4I65G
S478 Intel 865G mATX DDR AGP 3PCI SATA.
found at:
http://www.ncix.com:80/products/index.php?sku=18887&vpn=P4I65G&manufacture=ASRock
Then move my the Intel CPU over as it's a Socket 478. Anything else missing?
Does this seem plausible?
Rob

 

[Paul]

Tech says capacitor blown.
I have one suggestion so far to replace the mobo with this: ASRock P4I65G
S478 Intel 865G mATX DDR AGP 3PCI SATA.
found at:
http://www.ncix.com:80/products/index.php?sku=18887&vpn=P4I65G&manufacture=ASRock
Then move my the Intel CPU over as it's a Socket 478. Anything else missing?
Does this seem plausible?
Rob

An 865G should work fine. You might want to check the Asrock
CPU compatibility chart (as I don't see mention of your processor
type in this thread).

You might need to do a repair install, to get your OS disk to boot.
Or you could do a clean install, if you're so inclined. There
are no guarantees about the thing just booting on the new motherboard.
(I've managed to do it, by using the default Microsoft IDE driver
on the old system, knowing that the same driver works on my new
motherboard. But you have to be pretty lucky, for the two pieces
of hardware to share a driver like that. The "repair install" method,
covers the bases a bit better.)

http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/XPrepairinstall.htm

Or perhaps with a little less red text...

http://helpdesk.its.uiowa.edu/windows/instructions/repairinstall.htm

If you were really adventurous, you could also pick up a VT6421
based PCI card, and connect the boot disk to that. That might
share the same driver as VT8237 for example. This one is purely
an example - with the VIA chip on it, it really should not be
this expensive. The card has two SATA and one ribbon cable connector.
For drivers, you can check viaarena, to see if the same driver you
installed on your Biostar board, would work with a VT6421.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815158092

Paul

 

[Rob]

An 865G should work fine. You might want to check the Asrock
CPU compatibility chart (as I don't see mention of your processor
type in this thread).

You might need to do a repair install, to get your OS disk to boot.
Or you could do a clean install, if you're so inclined. There
are no guarantees about the thing just booting on the new motherboard.
(I've managed to do it, by using the default Microsoft IDE driver
on the old system, knowing that the same driver works on my new
motherboard. But you have to be pretty lucky, for the two pieces
of hardware to share a driver like that. The "repair install" method,
covers the bases a bit better.)

http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/XPrepairinstall.htm

Or perhaps with a little less red text...

http://helpdesk.its.uiowa.edu/windows/instructions/repairinstall.htm

If you were really adventurous, you could also pick up a VT6421
based PCI card, and connect the boot disk to that. That might
share the same driver as VT8237 for example. This one is purely
an example - with the VIA chip on it, it really should not be
this expensive. The card has two SATA and one ribbon cable connector.
For drivers, you can check viaarena, to see if the same driver you
installed on your Biostar board, would work with a VT6421.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815158092

Paul

Resolved!
Installed the ASRock and found it froze on Windows boot up.
Replaced it with a new one and worked fine. Both hdd on SATA, no jumps.

Thanks to all that provided input in this newsgroup to work thru my issue.
Regards
Rob.