switch

[UCLAN]

Sure, but the vast bulk do.

And for those that don't (most early ATX BIOS), the cap is the answer.

And not all motherboards will start with a cap across those pins
either.

All ATX MBs will start with the correct value cap across those pins.
Electrically, it is no different than momentarily shorting those pins
with the switch. Don't rely on Kony's second hand report that a user
could not get his MB to work. There is no way to verify whether or not
it was being done correctly. And please don't argue that you make that
claim based on personal experience. Your earlier comments in this thread
make it clear that you were unaware of this option.

Corse it is if it can be done in the bios.

As you acknowledged above, not all BIOS versions have that option.

Corse it is if it can be done in the bios.

Course...

And you're starting to repeat yourself (poor spelling/grammar and
all.) I guess once your point has been exposed as nonsense, parroting
is all you have left.

 

[UCLAN]

You are talking about two different types of caps. When you say cap, that is
a device constructed with two plates separated by air or some other
insulation that prevents DC from Flowing. So with this cap, you will not get
a momentary flow of DC.

Nonsense. Any small electrolytic capacitor, or for that matter ANY
capacitor, will look like a short when uncharged. When power is
applied, the cap charges until it finally looks like an open. This
is electrically no different than pressing a momentary switch across
these two pins. I usually left the switch attached, as well as
installing the switch.

Now a device called a SuperCap, has a dielectric that when first charged
will allow voltage flow for a very brief amount of time.

Voltage never flows. Current does.

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

And for those that don't (most early ATX BIOS),

And you dont know that the OPs bios doesnt have that.

the cap is the answer.

Sometimes it is, sometimes it doesnt work either.

All ATX MBs will start with the correct value cap across those pins.
Wrong.

Electrically, it is no different than momentarily shorting those pins
with the switch. Don't rely on Kony's second hand report that a user
could not get his MB to work. There is no way to verify whether or not it was being done
correctly. And please don't argue that you make that claim based on personal experience. Your
earlier comments in this thread make it clear that you were unaware of this option.

Irrelevant to the different ways those pins are implemented in chipsets.

As you acknowledged above, not all BIOS versions have that option.

The word IF was used for a reason.

Course...

Wrong, as always.

And you're starting to repeat yourself

You quite sure you aint one of those rocket scientist pathetic excuse for a bulshit artists ?

(poor spelling/grammar and all.)

Taint poor spelling, and it certainly aint grammar.

I guess once your point has been exposed as nonsense,

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys, child.

parroting is all you have left.

It aint even parroting. Repetition can help with the terminally stupid.

 

[UCLAN]

The major problem with the capacitor trick is that its functioning
is highly dependant on the rise time of the auxiliary (standby)
power line at power turn-on. Normally you will need to use an
electrolytic of suitable voltage rating, such as 7 volts. The only
reliable way to select the actual capacity is experimentally. If
the rise time is too long no size will work.

The difference in +5vsb circuits and the way MBs tie the +5vsb to the
ON/OFF pins is the reason the value of the cap varies from unit to
unit. Usually, a range of cap values works OK for a given PSU/MB
combination. Too big of a cap can actually increase the rise time
of the +5vsb, so start small and work your way up (increasing by
a factor of 10 each time.)

As far as "snipping" attributes goes, only the ID of the poster
to which I'm replying is needed. Heck, some people snip all IDs,
as they are unimportant in understanding the nature of the thread.

 

[Sam Jones]

They are normally homed to a suitable location when the drive is
inactive.

Different matter entirely to that claim you made.

And this later claim is just plain wrong too.

That process is normal and entirely satisfactory.
But the OP indicated he wasn't doing so.

Irrelevant to what he can do if he is informed of the better approach and
chooses to continue to restore the mains to get it to start for whatever reason.

 

[kony]

And for those that don't (most early ATX BIOS), the cap is the answer.

Yes it is, but it could be an answer to a problem that
shouldn't exist- ATX systems are meant to stay *up*, for
5VSB.

All ATX MBs will start with the correct value cap across those pins.
Electrically, it is no different than momentarily shorting those pins
with the switch. Don't rely on Kony's second hand report that a user
could not get his MB to work. There is no way to verify whether or not
it was being done correctly. And please don't argue that you make that
claim based on personal experience. Your earlier comments in this thread
make it clear that you were unaware of this option.

Yeah, I don't know what to make of the user that reported it
didn't work, because I had one that worked and retried it
again on another board and that worked too.

Here's a more complex alternate circuit, bottom of the PDF,
http://www.edn.com/contents/images/12005di.pdf

It was also referred to in one of the threads where one
person couldn't get the cap to work, and I'd mentioned a
combination I'd tried then and had worked (10uF cap between
Power-ON and Gnd, in parallel with a 24K (any wattage, 1/4W
is fine)) resistor.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt....tor+across+pins&rnum=2&hl=en#39263db66c243c2c

Above link again in tinyURL format,
http://tinyurl.com/o46pk

 

[kony]

Irrelevant to the different ways those pins are implemented in chipsets.

Maybe, but probably not. AFAIK, all of them use a pull-down
scheme, so it would only be a matter of the correct cap and
parallel resistor value to get the right timing... which if
it doesn't work on the first try could be fiddly, or time
consuming and slightly higher cost if one didn't have a few
alternate cap and resistor values on hand.

 

[Rod Speed]

Maybe, but probably not. AFAIK, all of them use a pull-down scheme,

Wouldnt be surprising if not all of them did, and that wasnt what I was
talking about anyway. The problem is more likely to be the other detail,
like the risetime of the 5VSB and how that is handled chipset wise etc.
In other words it may well be that the electro gets charged up before
the chipset is ready to recognise that with some motherboards.

so it would only be a matter of the correct cap
and parallel resistor value to get the right timing...

Not necessarily, see above.

which if it doesn't work on the first try could be fiddly,
or time consuming and slightly higher cost if one didn't
have a few alternate cap and resistor values on hand.

And a completely stupid approach if the bios can do it.

 

[Rod Speed]

Yes it is, but it could be an answer to a problem that shouldn't
exist- ATX systems are meant to stay *up*, for 5VSB.

Irrelevant to the OP's situation where he wants to avoid
using a conventional power switch and wants to have
the system come up auto when the mains is applied.

Yeah, I don't know what to make of the user that reported
it didn't work, because I had one that worked and retried it
again on another board and that worked too.

It wouldnt surprise me at all that some systems dont
see the chipset come up before the cap is charged
and so dont see the effect of the cap getting charged.

Here's a more complex alternate circuit, bottom of the PDF,
http://www.edn.com/contents/images/12005di.pdf

That would be an even more stupid approach if
the OP can just change the bios setting instead.

 

[UCLAN]

And you dont know that the OPs bios doesnt have that.

Never said he did or didn't. I just gave him an option if his didn't.

Wrong.

Care to expand on that? What MB won't work? And how do you know this,
since your earlier comments in this thread showed you were completely
unaware of this procedure? Your one word response is typical of you
when you know you don't have a case. Next thing you do is start calling
me "child."

Irrelevant to the different ways those pins are implemented in
chipsets.

Hardly irrelevant. The switch provides a momentary short to those pins.
The cap provides a momentary short to those pins. Electrically the same.

[...remainder of familiar troll baiting deleted.]

If the BIOS does not have a power on start up option, adding the cap
is a solution, PERIOD.

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys, child.

Ah...I knew it was coming. You sure are predictable. [And it's
spelled "fantasies."]

 

[UCLAN]

Yes it is, but it could be an answer to a problem that
shouldn't exist- ATX systems are meant to stay *up*, for
5VSB.

Some people wanted their systems to come back on when power returned
after a power failure. They weren't around to "push the button" and
their BIOS didn't have the option.

Yeah, I don't know what to make of the user that reported it
didn't work, because I had one that worked and retried it
again on another board and that worked too.

Here's a more complex alternate circuit, bottom of the PDF,
http://www.edn.com/contents/images/12005di.pdf

Yeah, but much too complex.

At first I used a relay to the +5v, an N channel FET, and a
couple of caps - until I realized that a single cap would do
the trick.

 

[UCLAN]

That would be an even more stupid approach if
the OP can just change the bios setting instead.

I guess you didn't bother to read the text that accompanied the circuit.

In part...

"A few ATX motherboard chip sets offer an “always-on”
BIOS option, but chances are, the motherboard that’s
available for your server system isn’t one of these."

They, too, provide a solution for those that do not have the BIOS
option available.

HEY KONY....when was that article published?

 

[kony]

HEY KONY....when was that article published?

The date under the article was Jan. 20, 2005.

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

Never said he did or didn't. I just gave him an option if his didn't.

You should have said that its one approach IF THE BIOS couldnt do it.

Care to expand on that?

I already did.

What MB won't work?

I didnt say any particular MB wont.

And how do you know this, since your earlier comments in this thread showed you were completely
unaware of this procedure?

Irrelevant to understanding the basics when its clear what you meant.

Your one word response is typical of you
when you know you don't have a case.

You're lying now. That particular post didnt
have a one word response, you pathological liar.

Hardly irrelevant.

Completely irrelevant.

The switch provides a momentary short to those pins.
Duh.

The cap provides a momentary short to those pins. Electrically the same.

But the chipset isnt necessarily yet up in a
state where it can see that charging current.

[...remainder of familiar troll baiting deleted.]

Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.

If the BIOS does not have a power on start up option, adding the cap is a solution, PERIOD.

IF THE BIOS DOES HAVE A START UP OPTION, ONLY
A FOOL WOULD FART AROUND WITH A CAP, PERIOD.

Ah...I knew it was coming. You sure are predictable.

Your pathetic excuse for bullshit and pathological lying in spades.

[And it's spelled "fantasies."]

Wrong, as always.

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

I guess you didn't bother to read the text that accompanied the circuit.

Guess again.

In part...

"A few ATX motherboard chip sets offer an “always-on”
BIOS option, but chances are, the motherboard that’s
available for your server system isn’t one of these."

And that is just plain wrong.

They, too, provide a solution for those that do not have the BIOS option available.

Irrelevant to what makes any sense when the bios can do it.

HEY KONY....when was that article published?

Irrelevant to the OP.

 

[Mitch Crane]

Sorry for stating the obvious, but this thread is ridiculous. Obviously Rod
Speed wasn't so speedy on the uptake and made a fool of himself (as usual)
by thinking a cap was a jumper and then trying to defend his mistake by
ridiculing a very good solution.

The cap idea works great (I just tried it, myself). Obviously, it isn't
always necessary, but it's an elegant solution and nice to know. In fact,
I've connected a cap to a plug which I'll use from now on for starting
motherboards I'm working on outside of a case. So, thanks UCLAN for
suggesting it.

 

[Rod Speed]

The cap idea works great (I just tried it, myself).

The technical term for that is 'pathetically inadequate sample'

Obviously, it isn't always necessary,

Isnt normally neccessary in fact.

but it's an elegant solution

Like hell it is when the bios can be set to boot on power applied.

and nice to know.

For the now uncommon situation where the bios cant do it.

In fact, I've connected a cap to a plug which I'll use from now
on for starting motherboards I'm working on outside of a case.

There isnt just one cap that will always work.

 

[UCLAN]

You're lying now. That particular post didnt
have a one word response, you pathological liar.

Gee...I guess "Wrong" isn't a one word response?

You have deteriorated into your name-calling, idiotic short retort
mode for which you are so infamous. You have been shown to be wrong,
and I guess that upsets you a great deal. I will leave you alone now.

 

[UCLAN]

Sorry for stating the obvious, but this thread is ridiculous. Obviously Rod
Speed wasn't so speedy on the uptake and made a fool of himself (as usual)
by thinking a cap was a jumper and then trying to defend his mistake by
ridiculing a very good solution.

The cap idea works great (I just tried it, myself). Obviously, it isn't
always necessary, but it's an elegant solution and nice to know. In fact,
I've connected a cap to a plug which I'll use from now on for starting
motherboards I'm working on outside of a case. So, thanks UCLAN for
suggesting it.

De nada. Glad it helped you. If even just one person was aided, I
guess it was worth having to put up with Rod's nonsense. I apologize
for answering his troll in the first place. I should know better.

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

Gee...I guess "Wrong" isn't a one word response?

Pity about the rest of the words that followed that particular word,
you silly little pathetic excuse for a pathological lying ****wit child.

<reams of your desperate attempts to bullshit and lie
your way out of your predicament that fools absolutely
no one at all, as always, flushed where it belongs>