Suggest a solution to print digital on offset gloss with process print on it...

[Phil]

We just received a shipment of offset printed 11x17 sheets which we
were going to then laser print unique ids onto, followed by lamination
and diecutting. It was supposed to be printed on 100lb. text uncoated
stock, but arrived on glossy stock.

We just tried to use these sheets in our HP 8550 laser to print the
ids, and as expected the high temp caused the glossy paper to shrivel
up and block the fuser.

We would prefer not to insist on a reprint of entire job, due to time
and shipping costs, but how can we digitally "overprint" the unique ids
onto this paper? On a typical inkjet printer the typical ink just
smears off gloss paper. Would a pigmented ink work (or is it
non-pigmented we should try?) (And we dont want to buy a large plotter
for this one job!)

How about a low temp laser? We could get away with black only since
much cheaper vs. color printer, though we would have preferred a color
font.

How about those lasers with the wax sort of ink...I forget what company
makes them, or would the wax just melt later on when we laminated this
paper.

Any suggestions or experience with this?

 

[me]

We just received a shipment of offset printed 11x17 sheets which we
were going to then laser print unique ids onto, followed by lamination
and diecutting. It was supposed to be printed on 100lb. text uncoated
stock, but arrived on glossy stock.

We just tried to use these sheets in our HP 8550 laser to print the
ids, and as expected the high temp caused the glossy paper to shrivel
up and block the fuser.

We would prefer not to insist on a reprint of entire job, due to time
and shipping costs, but how can we digitally "overprint" the unique ids
onto this paper? On a typical inkjet printer the typical ink just
smears off gloss paper. Would a pigmented ink work (or is it
non-pigmented we should try?) (And we dont want to buy a large plotter
for this one job!)

How about a low temp laser? We could get away with black only since
much cheaper vs. color printer, though we would have preferred a color
font.

How about those lasers with the wax sort of ink...I forget what company
makes them, or would the wax just melt later on when we laminated this
paper.

Any suggestions or experience with this?

I have some Datacopy Colour Laser glossy paper (card?) thats 160gsm and
my Canon CLC950 didn't like it, nor does my new Minolta Bizhub, however
my Xerox Phaser (solid ink) machine quite happily prints on the stuff. I
do have some Xerox Colotech glossy paper at 135 gsm which I have yet to
try.

I've never tried laminating any glossy stock, is that necessary? With
the solid ink there can be an element of melting of the ink if you have
the temperature turned up too high on the laminator, but if you have the
temperature turned right down it shouldn't be an issue (depending on how
the glossy paper responds to lamination)

 

[Phil]

Timothy,

Thanks- yeah we do need to laminate to provide protection to finished
pieces, and we are using commercial lamination co. which uses high
heat, so the solid ink is a risk.

I was thinking maybe a regular inkjet printer that can use archival dye
ink, or pigmented ink. I was wondering if anyone has tried that on
regular gloss paper (as opposed to special inkjet photo paper which is
treated for receving inkjet ink). Does such ink just smudge on glossy
paper, or does it stick- at least long enough to lock it in using
lamination.

 

[me]

Timothy,

Thanks- yeah we do need to laminate to provide protection to finished
pieces, and we are using commercial lamination co. which uses high
heat, so the solid ink is a risk.

I suppose an LED machine might be worth a try, the sort of thing made by
OKI. Presumably they run at a lower temperature than a normal laser.

Whilst we're on this subject, does anyone know why the fuser in copier
machines seem to run at a higher temperature than laser printers?

I was thinking maybe a regular inkjet printer that can use archival dye
ink, or pigmented ink. I was wondering if anyone has tried that on
regular gloss paper (as opposed to special inkjet photo paper which is
treated for receving inkjet ink). Does such ink just smudge on glossy
paper, or does it stick- at least long enough to lock it in using
lamination.

I haven't used an inkjet for about six years, but I did try putting some
photocopier acetate through an Epson Stylus 600 and that caused a mess!
I therefore _suspect_ non-inkjet glossy paper would have a similar
result - unless anyone knows better.

 

[Tony]

I suppose an LED machine might be worth a try, the sort of thing made by
OKI. Presumably they run at a lower temperature than a normal laser.

Unfortunately that is not the case, the LED mechanism replaces the laser
scanner used in conventional laser printers. OKI printers still use a fuser
which runs at a high temperature.
Tony

 

[Stanley Krute]

Hi Phil

As you've probably realized, you're screwed for this particular job.

For the future: there ARE glossy stocks that some lasers will print to.
For example, there's a laser-friendly set of KromeKote papers from
Smart.

The key, of course, is to research toner/ink/paper issues before getting
such a job going, and making sure that your offset printer uses the
specified
stock you come up with.

But you didn't need to hear that ....

-- stan

 

[Phil]

Thanks all. Yea, probably screwed (as per Stanley) but one last
try...we bought an OKI Dot Matrix printer (I went to their site to
check on possiblity of using LED but as per above posting, probably
wont work..and those printers are 1,000 plus- even mono- for 11 x 17)
and will try it- the dot matrix the pins strike the ribbon against the
paper- so maybe ink will stick long enough to get it laminated. I dont
even know what kind of ink it is- dye or pigment, but worth a try with
used Epson 321s available for $150.

For the record, we ordered uncoated stock and the gloss was a screw-up
by the printing company..even says it on the receipt..uncoated, which
is a different "struggle" now.

Anyone know if Dot matrix printers can print text vertical..in other
words if we print a document with text at 90 degrees to horizontal,
does it start smoking? I know there is graphics ability (minimal) and
200x240 approx. resolution in "near letter quality" mode, but I think
it depends on using the standard fonts, which I suspect do not print
sideways...so we would have to print fonts as "graphics" perhaps?

Anyone have dot matrix experience? Thanks again.

 

[Gary Tait]

Anyone know if Dot matrix printers can print text vertical..in other
words if we print a document with text at 90 degrees to horizontal,
does it start smoking? I know there is graphics ability (minimal) and
200x240 approx. resolution in "near letter quality" mode, but I think
it depends on using the standard fonts, which I suspect do not print
sideways...so we would have to print fonts as "graphics" perhaps?

Anyone have dot matrix experience? Thanks again.

TMK, it would have to be printed as graphics., in the sence of the graphics
mode of the printer. Software could render your code into a vertical
graphic.

 

[Fred McKenzie]

For the record, we ordered uncoated stock and the gloss was a screw-up
by the printing company..even says it on the receipt..uncoated, which
is a different "struggle" now.

Phil-

Perhaps there is a communications problem. There is a glossy paper for
laser printers that is not coated. The reason is that inkjet paper
coating might mess up the laser printer.

Is it possible that your attempts to print using a laser printer failed
for some other reason? Could the printer's ink be reacting to the laser
printer's heat?

Either way, your dot-matrix printer may be the best solution under the
circumstances.

Fred