sudden freezes


G

Gerard Verhoef

Hi;

I added a harddisk to my computer and did a complete reinstall of windows xp
professional on that new harddisk
(partitioned the 160GB harddisk in 3 partitions, OS, Data and Apps). Still
use the old 40GM disk as backup.

I have setup the new HD (WD) as master and the old one (Maxtor) as slave on
the same eide cable (flat), The dvd drive and cdrw are on the other eide
cable as nmaster and slave.

Since then I have sudden freezes of my system. No warning, no error in
eventview, but a complete freeze.
Only a hard reset can get life back into it. When frozen I see that the leds
in my usb hub turn off too.
The freeze errus about once every 2 to 3 hours and seemingly independent on
th appliation(s). Before the harddik addition i never had this problem.

I run.winxp professional, latest updates on a amd xp 2400+ with 512 MB Ram,
MSI MS-6712 mainboard, a msi gf5600 videocard, creative 5.1 audio, tascam
us-122 audio/midi interface (powered by usb, 5V, max 500mA), plextor CDRW,
MSI DVD, Maxtor 40GB en WD 160 GB harddisks.

All powered by a 350W power supply, running on 230V.
AMD temerature is around 60 degr Celcius.

Whats the best way to troubleshoot this? Is it likely that I need a more
powerfull powersupply?

Thanks vor any suggestions

Gerard Verhoef
 
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D

Dave

What you could try is to unplug your 'old drive' and see if the system will
still freeze on you. If not, then I would suspect that your power supply can't
handle the load...from reading various articles on power supplies, just because
the manufacturer claims 350W, it may only be able to put out 250 - 300 W
max...kinda weird.
 
M

Malke

Gerard said:
Hi;

I added a harddisk to my computer and did a complete reinstall of
windows xp professional on that new harddisk
(partitioned the 160GB harddisk in 3 partitions, OS, Data and Apps).
Still use the old 40GM disk as backup.

I have setup the new HD (WD) as master and the old one (Maxtor) as
slave on the same eide cable (flat), The dvd drive and cdrw are on the
other eide cable as nmaster and slave.

Since then I have sudden freezes of my system. No warning, no error in
eventview, but a complete freeze.
Only a hard reset can get life back into it. When frozen I see that
the leds in my usb hub turn off too.
The freeze errus about once every 2 to 3 hours and seemingly
independent on th appliation(s). Before the harddik addition i never
had this problem.

I run.winxp professional, latest updates on a amd xp 2400+ with 512 MB
Ram, MSI MS-6712 mainboard, a msi gf5600 videocard, creative 5.1
audio, tascam us-122 audio/midi interface (powered by usb, 5V, max
500mA), plextor CDRW, MSI DVD, Maxtor 40GB en WD 160 GB harddisks.

All powered by a 350W power supply, running on 230V.
AMD temerature is around 60 degr Celcius.

Whats the best way to troubleshoot this? Is it likely that I need a
more powerfull powersupply?

Thanks for the very detailed post. Yes, your problems are caused by
failing hardware. I would say that yes, you need a better power supply
in any case. You've added another hard drive and your devices are
pretty power-hungry anyway. Make sure you buy a good, brand-name power
supply. If you pay less than $30-45usd you are not getting a good one.
I don't say that you have to pay top dollar, but a cheap power supply
will not be a good deal. Since that will be a relatively inexpensive
and easy solution, try that first. Your temperature seems a little on
the high side to me, so you might also want to open the box, clean it
out, check the fans. Post back if you want more help, and good luck.

Malke
 
R

R. McCarty

Power supply sounds right, Just a day or two ago my 400 watt
+12 started to fail. You might get a Motherboard monitor app &
have it log your voltages just to see how close to the limits it is
operating. Don't try to save money on a supply, Good ones are
usually in the $60 price range. The newer ones have larger fans
that turn slower, so they are noticeably quieter. Also, the new PS's
now have Serial ATA power cables included.
Just be sure that any replacement supply will fit correctly in your
case.
 
G

Gerard Verhoef

Thanks for your suggestions.

I installed PC Alert 4 but never realised that it was helpful to check the
voltages. Only looked at the temp.
PC Alert doesnt seem to log the info, so its kinda hard to draw conlusions
on simply looking at the figueres from time to time.

It gives me 4 voltage readings:
Vcore reads about 1.65V
The 3.3 gauge reads 3,22/3,23
The +5V Gauge reads 4.89 - 4.92 and the +12V gauge reads 12.42. I wouldn't
really know if thats within specs, but considering the 2 decimal precision
of the gauges it cannot be too far off (just an educated guess)

I run the computer now with an open case, so as fas as i know i cannot do
much more to get the temp down (bought a bigger fan than the one my cpu was
boxed with a couple of month earlier).

Knocking on wood: I haven't had a freeze in the last 5 hours or so!

Do you know of a monitor that does log the readings? Am I correct in
assuming the the read numbers so far are probably within the limits?

Thanks again

Gerard
 
G

Gerard Verhoef

Gerard Verhoef said:
Knocking on wood: I haven't had a freeze in the last 5 hours or so!

I clicked the send button, logged in into msn messenger and another freeze.
Seem like I better go for a PS hunt tomorrow

Gerard
 
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M

Malke

Gerard said:
I clicked the send button, logged in into msn messenger and another
freeze. Seem like I better go for a PS hunt tomorrow

Gerard

In any case, it can't *hurt* you to get a new power supply. You probably
do need it, and it is a good upgrade. Most people forget about putting
a good power supply in, or stay with the one that came with the case
which is usually a cheap one. I can't remember offhand, but Motherboard
Monitor might have logging. In any case, I like it better than PCAlert,
although there is a new version of PCAlert.

Malke
 
G

Gerard Verhoef

Thanks for all the advise. I'd like to let you know where I'm standing with
this little problem right now.

1. All readings from pc alert were kinda stable. Motherboard monitor
isn't compatible with my mainboard, so i wasn't able to log temps and
voltages.
2 Since Voltage the readings of pc alert didn't directly point in the
directyion of an underpowered supply and 350W is more than average, I
wasn't too sure that this was causing the problems.
3. So I removed the old maxtor disk and ran the system on the
WD1600alone. Still freezes.
4. Removing the us-122 didn't help either.
5 So it was unlikely that lack of pure watts was causing it
6 Reading some more on tweaksites people were mentioning that rasing the
Vcore a little sometimes was neccesairy to get a overclocked cpu stable. I
don't overclock, but the Vcore was 1.62V, just a little beneath the 1,65V it
should be. So i raised the Vcore using the MSI utility fuzzy logis to 1.68V.
That was something like 7 production hours ago. No freeze since than. Of
course, the reason that the original Vcore was a little low might be the my
PS isnt top quality.


Keeping my fingers crossed, just reinstalled the old disk. Have the cover
still off and hope it all stays stable. In a week or so I'm gonna try to get
the heat down a little. I feel much better if I can put the cover on again:
those chips don't like coffee as much as I do.

Thanks again

Gerard
 
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M

Malke

Gerard said:
Thanks for all the advise. I'd like to let you know where I'm standing
with this little problem right now.

1. All readings from pc alert were kinda stable. Motherboard
monitor isn't compatible with my mainboard, so i wasn't able to log
temps and voltages.
2 Since Voltage the readings of pc alert didn't directly point in
the
directyion of an underpowered supply and 350W is more than average, I
wasn't too sure that this was causing the problems.
3. So I removed the old maxtor disk and ran the system on the
WD1600alone. Still freezes.
4. Removing the us-122 didn't help either.
5 So it was unlikely that lack of pure watts was causing it
6 Reading some more on tweaksites people were mentioning that
rasing the
Vcore a little sometimes was neccesairy to get a overclocked cpu
stable. I don't overclock, but the Vcore was 1.62V, just a little
beneath the 1,65V it should be. So i raised the Vcore using the MSI
utility fuzzy logis to 1.68V. That was something like 7 production
hours ago. No freeze since than. Of course, the reason that the
original Vcore was a little low might be the my PS isnt top quality.


Keeping my fingers crossed, just reinstalled the old disk. Have the
cover still off and hope it all stays stable. In a week or so I'm
gonna try to get the heat down a little. I feel much better if I can
put the cover on again: those chips don't like coffee as much as I do.
Gerard, thanks so much for the great post letting us know what has been
happening with your system. I do think your PS could be replaced when
you're feeling rich. Unfortunately, it's one of those non-sexy upgrades
(it's always so much more fun to buy a new video card or more RAM), but
a high-quality one makes a difference. You were so clever to figure out
the voltage. I hope that solves everything for you.

Best,

Malke
 

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