Strange Network Problem

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Guest

In my home network (wired) I have 2 computers that get limited or no
connectivity. If I plug in my laptop, everything is fine with the
connection. If I move the computers from the 2 rooms to another room, they
work. I thought it might be the wire, but since the laptop works I am not
sure. Any suggestions?
 
In my home network (wired) I have 2 computers that get limited or no
connectivity. If I plug in my laptop, everything is fine with the
connection. If I move the computers from the 2 rooms to another room, they
work. I thought it might be the wire, but since the laptop works I am not
sure. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

Dave,
1) How many computers do you have?
2) Are the computers using Ethernet or WiFi?

You say that the network is wired, then you say that if you plug the laptop in
it's fine. How is it (supposedly) connected before it's plugged in?

How about some history? Details about the network?
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/06/background-information-useful-in.html>
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/06/background-information-useful-in.html
 
Chuck.

We have 5 computers. 3 are ethernet and two (including the laptop) is
wireless. I am running a Linksys router (54G). The 4 desktops are in
different rooms, 2 of which are giving me the problem. The laptop will run
using the ethernet connection in all rooms. The 2 desktops will run in 2
rooms and not the other 2 rooms. This is a new problem as they have worked
for over six months just fine.

The message I get is limited or no connectivity. I can ping the router and
other computers but can not get to the internet (broadband cable modem).

Hope this helps.
 
Chuck.

We have 5 computers. 3 are ethernet and two (including the laptop) is
wireless. I am running a Linksys router (54G). The 4 desktops are in
different rooms, 2 of which are giving me the problem. The laptop will run
using the ethernet connection in all rooms. The 2 desktops will run in 2
rooms and not the other 2 rooms. This is a new problem as they have worked
for over six months just fine.

The message I get is limited or no connectivity. I can ping the router and
other computers but can not get to the internet (broadband cable modem).

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

That's a start, Dave. And since this might take a while, try and post after my
posts please.
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/how-to-post-on-usenet-and-encourage.html#TopPosting>
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/how-to-post-on-usenet-and-encourage.html#TopPosting

Does the laptop connect to the Internet too, when connected by Ethernet? Is it
actually using the Ethernet - did you turn the radio off?

Now ask yourself what's different about the 2 locations where you've tried the
desktop computers? That's a total of 4 cables, 2 in one room, 2 in another?
They all go to the same router? Did you try exchanging router ports? Try one
of the other desktops in the problem room?

What's different between the 2 desktop computers, and the laptop computer?
Operating system, network hardware, drivers?

What happened recently? Electrical problems maybe? It's summer - and
thunderstorms have started. You're in Indiana? Any lightning recently?
Brownouts? Blackouts? Any electrical differences between the rooms? UPS in
use in either room?
 
Chuck said:
That's a start, Dave. And since this might take a while, try and post after my
posts please.
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/how-to-post-on-usenet-and-encourage.html#TopPosting>
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/how-to-post-on-usenet-and-encourage.html#TopPosting

Does the laptop connect to the Internet too, when connected by Ethernet? Is it
actually using the Ethernet - did you turn the radio off?

Now ask yourself what's different about the 2 locations where you've tried the
desktop computers? That's a total of 4 cables, 2 in one room, 2 in another?
They all go to the same router? Did you try exchanging router ports? Try one
of the other desktops in the problem room?

What's different between the 2 desktop computers, and the laptop computer?
Operating system, network hardware, drivers?

What happened recently? Electrical problems maybe? It's summer - and
thunderstorms have started. You're in Indiana? Any lightning recently?
Brownouts? Blackouts? Any electrical differences between the rooms? UPS in
use in either room?
Click to expand...
Chuck,

The laptop is connecting through the ethernet. I did not connect to the
wireless.

The 2 desktops run XP home and the laptop runs on XP Professional. All have
SP2.

I have tried 2 compltely different routers with the same results. You are
correct that the computers are in 2 different rooms and the laptop is used in
other locations either wired or wireless.

We have had some thunderstorms but no power problems. Neither room have a
UPS just on good surge protection.

I have tried both desktops in each of the other rooms with the same results.
They will not connect. I took the computers to a friends house and they
connect right up?

Everything I see points to the wiring, but I can't explain why the laptop
will connect with the same wiring.

Thanks for your help.

Dave
 
Chuck,

The laptop is connecting through the ethernet. I did not connect to the
wireless.

The 2 desktops run XP home and the laptop runs on XP Professional. All have
SP2.

I have tried 2 compltely different routers with the same results. You are
correct that the computers are in 2 different rooms and the laptop is used in
other locations either wired or wireless.

We have had some thunderstorms but no power problems. Neither room have a
UPS just on good surge protection.

I have tried both desktops in each of the other rooms with the same results.
They will not connect. I took the computers to a friends house and they
connect right up?

Everything I see points to the wiring, but I can't explain why the laptop
will connect with the same wiring.

Thanks for your help.

Dave
Click to expand...

Dave,

In cases like yours, where the symptoms don't make any sense, I try and explain
the symptoms. The laptop is the odd symptom.

How do you test the laptop, when you say that it connects with the problem
wiring? Try and explain how the laptop connects. How do you know that the
laptop is not connecting by WiFi? Do you turn the radio off?
 
So many reasons for your symptoms. Your posts are so vague as to
what you did and did not do and change. Therefore it is difficult to
almost impossible to provide a useful answer.

For example, some cables can be wired backwards. Some ethernet
interfaces will compensate accordingly. Others will not. You don't
even list how each connection was made - 10 Mhz or 100 Mhz. You did
not execute ethernet card diagnostics that echo data between two points
- so that a ballpark signal to noise estimate is provided. Some
computer and router ports will work at 10 Mhz but not at 100 Mhz. This
due to transient damage in the router, or even due to cable miswired -
the proper wire pairs not twisted together.

For example, computer connects directly to router and works OK.
Using that same ten foot ethernet cable, then does computer connect to
router via the 'inside wall' cable to the exact same router port?
Notice how details are posted to get a useful response here. You post
a test. Then make only one change - add the 'cable inside wall' to the
test circuit, and then test to the exact same router port. If you
don't do that, they you massively confuse and drive away useful
responders.

You provide no clear indication that WiFi was disabled. In fact,
some of your messages imply a WiFi connection is being made which you
are confusing with ethernet. Does Network Connections specifically say
'Disabled' or only say 'Disconnected'. You must literally state so
with the exact word quoted from Network Connections.

As you can see, above demonstrates even why your laptop would work
where other computers would not; with maybe four different reasons.
Using information provided, one cannot even begin to guess which one
would explain it. "They connected right up" is insufficient. At
what speed did they connect right up? Using what cables (best that
each cable has a label such as AA, BB, CC, DD, EE, etc and posted as to
which cable was used)? Yes it gets that anal if you really want a
final solution.
 
Chuck said:
Dave,

In cases like yours, where the symptoms don't make any sense, I try and explain
the symptoms. The laptop is the odd symptom.

How do you test the laptop, when you say that it connects with the problem
wiring? Try and explain how the laptop connects. How do you know that the
laptop is not connecting by WiFi? Do you turn the radio off?
Click to expand...
Chuck:

I have eliminated the wireless possibility by eliminating that from the
picture by using a straight wired 8 port switch. Same results.

It connects at 100 mps in both rooms.

Any other thoughts.

Dave
 
w_tom said:
So many reasons for your symptoms. Your posts are so vague as to
what you did and did not do and change. Therefore it is difficult to
almost impossible to provide a useful answer.

For example, some cables can be wired backwards. Some ethernet
interfaces will compensate accordingly. Others will not. You don't
even list how each connection was made - 10 Mhz or 100 Mhz. You did
not execute ethernet card diagnostics that echo data between two points
- so that a ballpark signal to noise estimate is provided. Some
computer and router ports will work at 10 Mhz but not at 100 Mhz. This
due to transient damage in the router, or even due to cable miswired -
the proper wire pairs not twisted together.

For example, computer connects directly to router and works OK.
Using that same ten foot ethernet cable, then does computer connect to
router via the 'inside wall' cable to the exact same router port?
Notice how details are posted to get a useful response here. You post
a test. Then make only one change - add the 'cable inside wall' to the
test circuit, and then test to the exact same router port. If you
don't do that, they you massively confuse and drive away useful
responders.

You provide no clear indication that WiFi was disabled. In fact,
some of your messages imply a WiFi connection is being made which you
are confusing with ethernet. Does Network Connections specifically say
'Disabled' or only say 'Disconnected'. You must literally state so
with the exact word quoted from Network Connections.

As you can see, above demonstrates even why your laptop would work
where other computers would not; with maybe four different reasons.
Using information provided, one cannot even begin to guess which one
would explain it. "They connected right up" is insufficient. At
what speed did they connect right up? Using what cables (best that
each cable has a label such as AA, BB, CC, DD, EE, etc and posted as to
which cable was used)? Yes it gets that anal if you really want a
final solution.
Click to expand...
Tom,

Maybe instead of telling all the things I did wrong, you could ask for more
information. If I knew all the information you needed, I probably would not
be asking for help.

The WiFi used to say disabled but I took that out of the picture by using a
different 8 port router (no wireless). same results.

If I set the computers up in the room where the cable modem and router are,
I have no problems what so ever. All computers work and all connect at 100
mps. When I take them back to the individual rooms, I get the limited or no
connection. I do however get a conection with the lapptop. The connection
there is also 100 mps.

I can also say that I have tried all port on the router and the results are
the same.

My next step is to test the wiring on the lines. I have had a close friend
loan me a line tester and I will test in the next say or so. (I am out of
town right now).

Any other suggestions.

Thanks
Dave
 
I'm not sure what line the line tester would be testing. But if
tester is for AC electric, it will report nothing useful. If an
ethernet cable tester, see below.

Laptop making a connection at 100 Mhz implies the 100 Mhz option
inside that one router port is OK. Same test must be performed on each
and every router port. Only then have we eliminated that one router as
one potential reason for failure. But (as addressed in another
paragraph) you were using different routers with each test and not
detailing that fact. IOW again, you have confused details - made more
than one change with each test making an accurate reply almost
impossible.

That test that confirms router port working at 100 Mhz still does not
eliminate each wire (inside walls) as a potential reason for failure.
Just another reason why the same test is conducted to each router port
using only same cable to same laptop. Then the same test conducted by
only replacing 'ten foot' cable from laptop to router with 'inside
walls' wire. Then do same test; this time only replace laptop with a
desktop computer - again using only exact same ethernet cables.
Repeat that desktop computer test to every port on that same router -
not even changing router's AC electric connection. It is tedious, it
is anal, and yet necessary to (for example) locate failures that may be
masked by resiliency and redundancy inside all that hardware. Change
only one item to then perform that same battery of tests.

BTW, an ethernet hardware diagnostic (ie provided by ethernet
interface manufacturer) was also defined. Amazing how an ethernet test
using Windows is so resilient as to not detect a noisy or otherwise
defective connection. Ethernet hardware diagnostic (running without
Windows) may detect a slower, intermittent, or periodically failing
ethernet. Windows is designed to make same failures irrelevant.
Hardware diagnostics report same problems that Windows must mask.
Defined previously was another tool to find an ethernet problem -
hopefully you have already downloaded and used.

Dave, I never told you what is right or wrong. I told you how to go
after the problem without wasting time, and without any consideration
for irrelevant emotions. You don't care how I told you. You only care
about making a problem permanently solved. Take a 'kill the problem'
attitude. Only women who are poor problem solvers also waste time with
the Oprah attitude of "but how did you feel'. Sorry. I'm not
politically correct which is why problems are solved immediately. The
blunt answer is the useful one. If you were told what you did wrong,
then be thankful that the post was honest rather than politically
correct. You care about solving the problem yesterday. Solve the
problem no matter how right or grossly misinformed you once were.

Never mentioned was a 'different router'. Such details imply you
were also testing using a different ethernet router. Again, confusing
your support by not providing another critical detail. That was my #1
point. Provided too late was another critical detail - another router
- long after it was required in your original post.

Defined earlier were various types of wiring failures that would work
OK (maybe with the laptop) and yet were still defective. Will a line
tester find all such problems? No. Detecting some previously listed
wiring failures require either 1) special 'hundreds of dollars' tester
OR 2) can be suspected by listing each test with only one change each
time OR 3) required visual inspection with an eyelet (or equivalent)
magnifying glass. A conductivity tester will not detect many wiring
problems - which is why a tester should cost hundreds or will not be
useful.

Again, this sounds all quite anal. Numerous reasons for your
symptoms means a tedious 'one change at a time' testing is necessary.
Remember, Windows and that laptop have a bad habit of 'correcting'
defects. Sometimes what is tested with Windows or with that laptop as
OK may actually be defective - because some hardware is so resilient.

Sorry to be blunt, but ethernet problems get confusing when testing
is not anally 'only one change per test'. Use of a second router
without posting same is just another reason your replies would be
confused. Again, you don't care what was done wrong or right (an
emotional reasponse). Care about how to correct a defective procedure.
 
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