StartupControlCenter vs StartupOrganizer?

[(PeteCresswell)]

Does anybody have a preference for a utility to control what gets
started and in what order when XP boots up?

So far I see "StartupControlCenter" and "StartupOrganizer".

 

[BillW50]

Does anybody have a preference for a utility to control what gets
started and in what order when XP boots up?

So far I see "StartupControlCenter" and "StartupOrganizer".

I like AnVir Task Manager myself. But it does so much more too. I don't
use the free version, so I don't know how well that one works. I don't
know what it can do about changing the order except that it can delay
startup of selected items.

http://www.anvir.com/taskmanager/

Freeware Task Manager
http://www.anvir.com/taskmanagerfree

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Does anybody have a preference for a utility to control what gets
started and in what order when XP boots up?

So far I see "StartupControlCenter" and "StartupOrganizer".

As far as I'm concerned, MSConfig, which comes with Windows, is fine.
There are more flexible programs, but very few people need them.

And if the order of what is started is important to you (it seldom is)
start the programs from a batch file which starts them in order.

Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP

 

[BillW50]

As far as I'm concerned, MSConfig, which comes with Windows, is fine.
There are more flexible programs, but very few people need them.

I wish I could say the same. As I find MSConfig as super bare bones and
its only worth is if that is all you have to work with. As it can't do
the following:

1) Can't sort the Startup List

2) Can't notify you of new Startups

3) Doesn't display all (especially malware)

4) Doesn't give much info about each item

5) Doesn't stop a program from re-enabling itself in Startup

And many other things MSConfig doesn't do right.

 

[Char Jackson]

I wish I could say the same. As I find MSConfig as super bare bones and
its only worth is if that is all you have to work with. As it can't do
the following:

1) Can't sort the Startup List

2) Can't notify you of new Startups

3) Doesn't display all (especially malware)

4) Doesn't give much info about each item

5) Doesn't stop a program from re-enabling itself in Startup

And many other things MSConfig doesn't do right.

You left out my biggest gripe: you can't make its window bigger.

 

[VanguardLH]

I wish I could say the same. As I find MSConfig as super bare bones and
its only worth is if that is all you have to work with. As it can't do
the following:

1) Can't sort the Startup List

Irrelevant. Startup items are NOT loaded in some order presented to you
in a list. They are NOT sequentially loaded.

There is some minimal loading start order based on which startup
mechanism is used (WinLogon, logon script, global and user Run keys,
scheduled jobs) but that doesn't preclude those items from still running
to load them while other startup items get loaded. Services, for
example, only load in a specific order if they specify a dependency
(i.e., a service cannot start until some other services have already
started).

Generally you don't get to specify load order for startup items,
especially since start order doesn't preclude overlapping loading of
those startup items. You could use a script to load programs in a
specific order and could even set services to Manual start mode and use
'net start' commands in a script but load time for Windows would get a
lot longer, plus that doesn't affect the load order of drivers (which
many tools will install for their own use and are not to provide an
interface to a hardware device).

While I have WinPatrol (freeware version) and it can delay the load of a
startup item, it won't preclude overlapping of startup items. Only if I
delay the load of a startup item by some ridiculous length, like several
minutes, and have each delayed item separated by several minutes could I
ensure that they don't overlap their load with the load of other startup
items. While it sounds great to delay the startup of some items so
Windows becomes responsive more quickly, that means you are also
lengthening how long before Windows settles from ALL startup items so
you lengthen how long there is an impact on responsiveness that you
experience before all those startup items stop loading. I did that for
awhile but got nuisanced with a longer impact to responsiveness rather
than just slam them all at once to load and figure I'd wait until
Windows settled. Yes, I could use the host sooner but more slowly
versus having to wait for everything to settle and get rid of the
impact. The tradeoff was a wash so now I don't delay any startup items
and just wait until Windows settles.

2) Can't notify you of new Startups

Not the purpose of startup managers. That's a security function you
find in anti-malware programs, like WinPatrol, HIPs functions in
firewalls or anti-virus programs, or other security or monitoring
software. msconfig was never designed to remain resident to always run
in the background to monitor changes to startup definitions, changes to
services, or driver changes. Like a word processor, it shows you the
current state when you load the program.

Belarc Advisor is a very handy tool but it doesn't require remaining
resident to be useful. You can run SecuniaPSI as a resident process to
monitor your system looking for old versions of software and monitor
software installs but it is still a very useful tool (provided you
understand some of their security "concerns" are not really issues) even
when run as a static viewer to scan the current state of your host.

3) Doesn't display all (especially malware)

Doesn't display all non-malware startup programs, either. For example,
it will not list startup items defined as WinLogon events in the
registry. It also doesn't list scheduled tasks (.job files) added to
Task Scheduler which load on Windows startup or upon login. It's intent
was not intended to encompass all startup mechanisms. To see all the
startup mechanisms you need something more than the basic tool that is
msconfig, like SysInternals' AutoRuns. However, as Ken noted, msconfig
is sufficient for most users since few in number can comprehend the
meaning or operation of the other startup mechanisms that AutoRuns will
list.

4) Doesn't give much info about each item

No startup manager can know everything about every possible file and its
content to give complete information about it. msconfig gives the
startup command along with the path to where is the source for the
program. Any further information, like a database of commonly known
startup programs, won't cover unknown startup programs, rarely
identifies malware since it mutates and is nearly always unknown to such
startup managers (which are not security programs, like an anti-virus
program), and most just give you little more than what msconfig already
gave you (and some give you a database of so many possible candidates
that their output is worthless). Once you know the program's file and
its path, it's really up to you to investigate what is that program.

5) Doesn't stop a program from re-enabling itself in Startup

Most startup managers don't do that. Some do but ONLY those that remain
resident so they can *monitor* for changes. Now you're changing the
topic from a startup manager to a startup *monitor*. Those that monitor
must remain running resident in memory to consume memory so they can
detect when a previously disabled item happens to reappear. Of course,
most of such monitors (e.g., WinPatrol, Mike Lin's Startup Monitor) only
look for the same filename to reappear from the same path. If the same
filename reappears but from a different path or a different filename
appears (but which is really the same program) then such disable
reinforcement fails. I haven't seen startup managers or security
programs that reinforce a disabled item (to disable it again on next
appearance) by using a hash value from the *contents* of a file to
ensure that they will re-disable the same program later even if its
filename or path happen to change.

And many other things MSConfig doesn't do right.

And the tire iron in my car doesn't replace a hydraulic lift for raising
my car. You're comparing a simple tool with more robust tools.

Anyone that wants to know how ALL startup mechanisms are defined, keep
disabled a previously disabled item, or access some database that
provides more info about a startup item will obviously have to obtain a
more robust tool. That there are better tools doesn't obviate that a
simple tool still has value. There are far better web browsers than
Lynx or SamSpade but a text-only non-scriptable web browser still has
value. I have several means of finding and even monitoring startup
items but I still occasionally use msconfig just because it's quick,
easy, and gives me just enough info and control for the task at hand.
When I find a loose door hinge screw, I can quickly and easy grab a
simple screwdriver rather than unpack my cordless toolkit, insert a bit,
while also having to maintain its batteries. Sometimes simple is
better. I use TrueCrypt but some users that want a simpler encryption
tool look to BestCrypt's Traveller product.

Yes, there are plenty of 3rd party tools, many of them free, that do
more than msconfig but a cannon is overkill when all you need is a fly
swatter. msconfig is easy enough to figure out quickly versus the
learning curve of having to figure out a more robust tool. I have
SysInternals' Process Explorer and after years of using it still find
functions that I didn't know it had.

There are plenty of 3rd party robust startup listers, managers, and
monitors that are free. The OP doesn't have to pay $20 for
StartupControlCenter or $25 for StartupOrganizer. Some freeware is:

- SysInternals' AutoRuns.
- Security monitoring software (e.g., WinPatrol, Mike Lin's Startup
Monitor).
- HIPS in firewalls (e.g., OnlineArmor, Comodo Firewall).
- Anti-virus software (many monitor system areas, like startup items).

To find other freeware solutions to startup control, the OP could ask
for suggestions in the alt.comp.freeware newsgroup. I didn't bother
trying to compile a comprehensive list.

 

[Char Jackson]

Irrelevant. Startup items are NOT loaded in some order presented to you
in a list. They are NOT sequentially loaded.

Bad assumption. Speaking only for myself, I'm not naive enough to
think that the items shown by msconfig are started in that order. Bill
probably knows that, too. Instead, sorting or really any kind of
rearranging of the entries would make administration easier,
especially if the list is relatively long. Sometimes there are dupes
and frequently there are related entries that could benefit from being
grouped and viewed as a whole.

Not the purpose of startup managers. That's a security function you
find in anti-malware programs, like WinPatrol, HIPs functions in
firewalls or anti-virus programs, or other security or monitoring
software. msconfig was never designed to remain resident to always run
in the background to monitor changes to startup definitions, changes to
services, or driver changes. Like a word processor, it shows you the
current state when you load the program.

Hard to tell what you're trying to say, but it would be trivial to add
a 'date' field to an msconfig-like utility.

Anyone that wants to know how ALL startup mechanisms are defined, keep
disabled a previously disabled item, or access some database that
provides more info about a startup item will obviously have to obtain a
more robust tool. That there are better tools doesn't obviate that a
simple tool still has value.

Agreed, and several of us have already said so in this thread.

 

[BillW50]

In VanguardLH wrote on Tue, 17 Apr 2012 12:58:24 -0500:

Irrelevant. Startup items are NOT loaded in some order presented to
you in a list. They are NOT sequentially loaded.

That isn't what I meant. I mean the columns are clickable, but nothing
changes. Sorting by alphabetical order makes it easier to find what you
are looking for.

There is some minimal loading start order based on which startup
mechanism is used (WinLogon, logon script, global and user Run keys,
scheduled jobs) but that doesn't preclude those items from still
running to load them while other startup items get loaded. Services,
for example, only load in a specific order if they specify a
dependency (i.e., a service cannot start until some other services
have already started).

Generally you don't get to specify load order for startup items,
especially since start order doesn't preclude overlapping loading of
those startup items. You could use a script to load programs in a
specific order and could even set services to Manual start mode and
use 'net start' commands in a script but load time for Windows would
get a lot longer, plus that doesn't affect the load order of drivers
(which many tools will install for their own use and are not to
provide an interface to a hardware device).

While I have WinPatrol (freeware version) and it can delay the load
of a startup item, it won't preclude overlapping of startup items.
Only if I delay the load of a startup item by some ridiculous length,
like several minutes, and have each delayed item separated by several
minutes could I ensure that they don't overlap their load with the
load of other startup items. While it sounds great to delay the
startup of some items so Windows becomes responsive more quickly,
that means you are also lengthening how long before Windows settles
from ALL startup items so you lengthen how long there is an impact on
responsiveness that you experience before all those startup items
stop loading. I did that for awhile but got nuisanced with a longer
impact to responsiveness rather than just slam them all at once to
load and figure I'd wait until Windows settled. Yes, I could use the
host sooner but more slowly versus having to wait for everything to
settle and get rid of the impact. The tradeoff was a wash so now I
don't delay any startup items and just wait until Windows settles.

AnVir Task Manager allows startup delay too. I never use it, but I can
see how it could help especially during troubleshooting a problematic
startup.

Not the purpose of startup managers. That's a security function you
find in anti-malware programs, like WinPatrol, HIPs functions in
firewalls or anti-virus programs, or other security or monitoring
software. msconfig was never designed to remain resident to always
run in the background to monitor changes to startup definitions,
changes to services, or driver changes. Like a word processor, it
shows you the current state when you load the program.

Belarc Advisor is a very handy tool but it doesn't require remaining
resident to be useful. You can run SecuniaPSI as a resident process
to monitor your system looking for old versions of software and
monitor software installs but it is still a very useful tool
(provided you understand some of their security "concerns" are not
really issues) even when run as a static viewer to scan the current
state of your host.

Then why does it warn you when you bootup that MSConfig is set to
selective mode? Yes I know it is, remember we are the ones that changed
it. :-0

Doesn't display all non-malware startup programs, either. For
example, it will not list startup items defined as WinLogon events in
the registry. It also doesn't list scheduled tasks (.job files)
added to Task Scheduler which load on Windows startup or upon login.
It's intent was not intended to encompass all startup mechanisms. To
see all the startup mechanisms you need something more than the basic
tool that is msconfig, like SysInternals' AutoRuns. However, as Ken
noted, msconfig is sufficient for most users since few in number can
comprehend the meaning or operation of the other startup mechanisms
that AutoRuns will list.

MSConfig isn't very useful if you ask me in this regard. As it finds
only the ones that wants to be found. And normally, it is the ones that
want to hide that are the problem.

No startup manager can know everything about every possible file and
its content to give complete information about it. msconfig gives the
startup command along with the path to where is the source for the
program. Any further information, like a database of commonly known
startup programs, won't cover unknown startup programs, rarely
identifies malware since it mutates and is nearly always unknown to
such startup managers (which are not security programs, like an
anti-virus program), and most just give you little more than what
msconfig already gave you (and some give you a database of so many
possible candidates that their output is worthless). Once you know
the program's file and its path, it's really up to you to investigate
what is that program.

At the very least it should allow you to view Properties of a Startup.
Remember computers are supposed to make things easier, not harder.

Most startup managers don't do that. Some do but ONLY those that
remain resident so they can *monitor* for changes. Now you're
changing the topic from a startup manager to a startup *monitor*.
Those that monitor must remain running resident in memory to consume
memory so they can detect when a previously disabled item happens to
reappear. Of course, most of such monitors (e.g., WinPatrol, Mike
Lin's Startup Monitor) only look for the same filename to reappear
from the same path. If the same filename reappears but from a
different path or a different filename appears (but which is really
the same program) then such disable reinforcement fails. I haven't
seen startup managers or security programs that reinforce a disabled
item (to disable it again on next appearance) by using a hash value
from the *contents* of a file to ensure that they will re-disable the
same program later even if its filename or path happen to change.

No it doesn't have to stay resident. I could close down AnVir Task
Manager for example and a new startup could appear and it wouldn't know
anything about it until it ran again. Then it pops up a window with one
or more new changes since the last time it ran.

And some programs will add a new entry in Startup if you have disabled
it in MSConfig. Now you have multiple Startups for the very same thing.
That is just sloppy. At least MSConfig should allow deleting of dups,
but it can't even do that right.

And the tire iron in my car doesn't replace a hydraulic lift for
raising my car. You're comparing a simple tool with more robust
tools.

Anyone that wants to know how ALL startup mechanisms are defined, keep
disabled a previously disabled item, or access some database that
provides more info about a startup item will obviously have to obtain
a more robust tool. That there are better tools doesn't obviate that
a simple tool still has value. There are far better web browsers than
Lynx or SamSpade but a text-only non-scriptable web browser still has
value. I have several means of finding and even monitoring startup
items but I still occasionally use msconfig just because it's quick,
easy, and gives me just enough info and control for the task at hand.
When I find a loose door hinge screw, I can quickly and easy grab a
simple screwdriver rather than unpack my cordless toolkit, insert a
bit, while also having to maintain its batteries. Sometimes simple is
better. I use TrueCrypt but some users that want a simpler encryption
tool look to BestCrypt's Traveller product.

Yes, there are plenty of 3rd party tools, many of them free, that do
more than msconfig but a cannon is overkill when all you need is a fly
swatter. msconfig is easy enough to figure out quickly versus the
learning curve of having to figure out a more robust tool. I have
SysInternals' Process Explorer and after years of using it still find
functions that I didn't know it had.

There are plenty of 3rd party robust startup listers, managers, and
monitors that are free. The OP doesn't have to pay $20 for
StartupControlCenter or $25 for StartupOrganizer. Some freeware is:

- SysInternals' AutoRuns.
- Security monitoring software (e.g., WinPatrol, Mike Lin's Startup
Monitor).
- HIPS in firewalls (e.g., OnlineArmor, Comodo Firewall).
- Anti-virus software (many monitor system areas, like startup items).

To find other freeware solutions to startup control, the OP could ask
for suggestions in the alt.comp.freeware newsgroup. I didn't bother
trying to compile a comprehensive list.

Yes I understand MSConfig is just a basic tool. But even as limited as
it is, even the basic features don't even work correctly. As Char
already mentioned, you can't even resize the window. And it doesn't even
qualify as a true GUI tool.

 

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per BillW50:

I like AnVir Task Manager myself. But it does so much more too. I don't
use the free version, so I don't know how well that one works. I don't
know what it can do about changing the order except that it can delay
startup of selected items.

http://www.anvir.com/taskmanager/

Looks pretty comprehensive to me. UI seems a little less
daunting than SysInternals' AutoRuns... but I don't know enough
to judge the comparative functionality - except that AutoRuns'
price is definitely right....

Everywhere I have looked so far, it seems to come down to being
able to delay selected items, but not otherwise change the order
of execution.

Where I'm trying to take this is my NAS box' availability.

I have the boot time down to a little less than a minute for a
desktop that will allow me to start an app. For sure, other
stuff is still going on.. but I've got the desktop.

The rub is that my NAS box does not become visible for another
forty-five seconds.

Of course, I have no clue what makes it available - but logically
it has tb something in the startup processing and, if I can move
that something to happen earlier, the issue might be resolved.

 

[Char Jackson]

Yes I understand MSConfig is just a basic tool. But even as limited as
it is, even the basic features don't even work correctly. As Char
already mentioned, you can't even resize the window. And it doesn't even
qualify as a true GUI tool.

I actually have no problem with msconfig most of the time, but I
really wish it had an Advanced button that would give it all of the
capabilities mentioned in this thread. Through all of the various
versions of Windows, it really hasn't changed much, and that's a
shame.

 

[Nil]

Does anybody have a preference for a utility to control what gets
started and in what order when XP boots up?

So far I see "StartupControlCenter" and "StartupOrganizer".

I know of no way to control the startup order, but as far as choosing
what starts, I like AutoRuns by Microsoft Sysinternals.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb963902

Be careful. It gives you the ability to totally hose your system.

 

[BillW50]

In (PeteCresswell) wrote on Tue, 17 Apr 2012 16:15:50 -0400:

Per BillW50:

Looks pretty comprehensive to me. UI seems a little less
daunting than SysInternals' AutoRuns... but I don't know enough
to judge the comparative functionality - except that AutoRuns'
price is definitely right....

AnVir Task Manager is also available for free with fewer features.
Although what you are looking for is still there.

http://www.anvir.com/task-manager-windows-startup.htm

You also can get a 30% discount if you have a competitive product. I
don't know what all counts, but I also have Process Lasso Pro and that
did count. So with a 30% discount it only costs $20.96.

Also AnVir is often offered on GAOTD website for free.

http://www.giveawayoftheday.com/?s=AnVir&x=54&y=20

Everywhere I have looked so far, it seems to come down to being
able to delay selected items, but not otherwise change the order
of execution.

Somebody mentioned and I can't find it, you could put Startups in a BAT
file (was this asked in another newsgroup too?).

Where I'm trying to take this is my NAS box' availability.

I have the boot time down to a little less than a minute for a
desktop that will allow me to start an app. For sure, other
stuff is still going on.. but I've got the desktop.

The rub is that my NAS box does not become visible for another
forty-five seconds.

Of course, I have no clue what makes it available - but logically
it has tb something in the startup processing and, if I can move
that something to happen earlier, the issue might be resolved.

Oh I am sure there are utilities that can change the order of Startups
(I don't know of any offhand). Although a BAT file can do the same too.
A delayed Startup is another option.

 

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per BillW50:

I like AnVir Task Manager myself. But it does so much more too.

I just sent them fifty bucks.

From the perspective of a clueless noob, where's what I find
uniquely valuable in AnVir:

- It stands watch over installs. Every time an install tries to
put something into the startup que, AnVir intercepts it and
throws an "Accept/Quarantine/Delete" dialog.

- AnVir's dialogs (at least so far) have included helpful,
English-language descriptions which appear tb written by
somebody who knows what they're talking about - as opposed to
a lot of the mindless boilerplate you see on various web pages
that claim to explain what xyz.exe or xyz.dll is.

 

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per BillW50:

but I also have Process Lasso Pro and that
did count. So with a 30% discount it only costs $20.96.

Damn.... so do I... so I just threw away thirty bucks...

Oh well...

 

[BillW50]

In

Per BillW50:

Damn.... so do I... so I just threw away thirty bucks...

Oh well...

Well it sounds like you got the Pro version, I just have the regular
version. The Pro with the 30% discount is like 35 bucks I think.

 

[BillW50]

In

Per BillW50:

I just sent them fifty bucks.

From the perspective of a clueless noob, where's what I find
uniquely valuable in AnVir:

- It stands watch over installs. Every time an install tries to
put something into the startup que, AnVir intercepts it and
throws an "Accept/Quarantine/Delete" dialog.

There are other programs that does this too. Although AnVir Task Manager
does this extremely well.

- AnVir's dialogs (at least so far) have included helpful,
English-language descriptions which appear tb written by
somebody who knows what they're talking about - as opposed to
a lot of the mindless boilerplate you see on various web pages
that claim to explain what xyz.exe or xyz.dll is.

AnVir Task Manager also does tons of things and yet does keep things as
simple as possible.

 

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per BillW50:

Well it sounds like you got the Pro version, I just have the regular
version. The Pro with the 30% discount is like 35 bucks I think.

Oh... now I feel *much* better..... -)

 

[VanguardLH]

Bad assumption. Speaking only for myself, I'm not naive enough to
think that the items shown by msconfig are started in that order. Bill
probably knows that, too. Instead, sorting or really any kind of
rearranging of the entries would make administration easier,
especially if the list is relatively long. Sometimes there are dupes
and frequently there are related entries that could benefit from being
grouped and viewed as a whole.

I didn't think about that type of sorting which makes it easier for the
eyes to find a particular entry provided you already know what you're
looking for. msconfig also doesn't have a search function to let you
find a startup item should you know something of what it might be called
by description, filename, or in its path.

Hard to tell what you're trying to say, but it would be trivial to add
a 'date' field to an msconfig-like utility.

Just what is the date field supposed to tell you? When an entry in the
list was last modified (either by create or change)? That's not going
to *notify* you of new startups. Only a startup *monitor* will catch
those changes. A startup manager doesn't stay loaded after you're done
using it. Like a word processor, you get to see the current state of a
document when you load the program but when you exit the program it
isn't going to magically notify you about a change to the document. The
program isn't running to alert you to anything.

The problem is confusing the abilities of a startup manager with those
of a startup monitor (whether the tool just monitors for startup changes
or the function is incorporated into other security software, like anti-
virus, firewall, or HIPS programs).

Agreed, and several of us have already said so in this thread.

Really? And in which posts are those where this was "already said" AND
also posted *before* my post in this thread?

 

[VanguardLH]

In VanguardLH wrote on Tue, 17 Apr 2012 12:58:24 -0500:

That isn't what I meant. I mean the columns are clickable, but nothing
changes. Sorting by alphabetical order makes it easier to find what you
are looking for.


AnVir Task Manager allows startup delay too. I never use it, but I can
see how it could help especially during troubleshooting a problematic
startup.


Then why does it warn you when you bootup that MSConfig is set to
selective mode? Yes I know it is, remember we are the ones that changed
it. :-0

The only prompt I remember seeing from using msconfig is on login to let
you know that you previously made changes to the startup composition.
It's just a warning to remind you that you used it previously to make
changes. It is NOT to alert you of changes to startup items, only to
let you know that you used it. In fact, if you load msconfig and make
*NO CHANGES* with it but click the Apply button then you will get that
warning when you next login. Nothing changed on your host regarding the
startup items but you clicked Apply (after making no changes) rather
than clicked Cancel. Clicking Apply sets a startup reminder that
appears on your next login.

The Apply button remains disabled until you make a change. So say to
deselect a startup item (so it won't load next time) but change your
mind and reselect it. It was enabled, you disabled it (so the Apply
button becomes active), but you reenable it. What the effect? Well,
there was no change in the startup list yet the bit got set that has
msconfig warn you about the non-existent change on next login. msconfig
isn't smart enough to realize there was no effective change in the
startup list, only that you managed to click the Apply button.

I've gotten nailed on that several times. I might do something, undo
it, and accidentally click Apply instead of Cancel. On next login, yep,
I get the alert but I know that there was no change.

Also, that prompt tells you that you made a change (even if you undid
it) using msconfig. It does NOT alert you to a change in startup items
due to programs adding, modifying, or deleting their startup entries.

MSConfig isn't very useful if you ask me in this regard. As it finds
only the ones that wants to be found. And normally, it is the ones that
want to hide that are the problem.

I suspect there are 2 reasons for this. One, Microsoft figures the vast
majority of users want a simple startup manager and for the type of
entries they can understand. Few users know what is a WinLogon event,
know where to look for startup/shutdown scripts in their user profile,
know how BootExecute is used. Some articles tell where to find this
stuff, like http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/ee851671.aspx,
yet I still suspect there are other means of starting a process without
user intervention or notification.

It's like the 1st-year biology book only going so far into the subject
since microbiology or genetics splicing is beyond the scope of those
students. Although SysInternals' AutoRuns is a great tool, in the hands
of a noob it won't have much value. Having the tool won't give you the
expertise to use it. A scapel doesn't make you a surgeon.

You could right-click on a folder or file and go look at permissions.
Is that GUI the pentultimate method of managing permissions in Windows?
No, but how many users do you now of that are comfortable using CACLS?
Windows comes with its own firewall but why not also include the IPsec
configuration there? Even despite users deselecting a startup item (or
even deleting it) and when not using a startup *monitor* to keep the
item disabled (which only works on filename and perhaps its path), how
many users go into the group policy settings to configure SRPs (software
restriction policies) to add a Block rule so if the item reappears that
it can never run?

The tools are there but they are designed for a particular audience.
msconfig is geared for normal to above-average users, not for experts or
wizards. Giving a wizard tool to a casual Windows users isn't going to
be of much value to them. They won't know what to do with it.

At the very least it should allow you to view Properties of a Startup.
Remember computers are supposed to make things easier, not harder.

I don't what marketer proposed that idea but it was to sell computers,
not to effuse truth. More accurately is that "Computers are to maintain
or raise your level of frustration." The only way to make something
like an operating system easier to a user is to hide a lot of it from
the user. Well, msconfig does that very nicely.

No it doesn't have to stay resident. I could close down AnVir Task
Manager for example and a new startup could appear and it wouldn't know
anything about it until it ran again. Then it pops up a window with one
or more new changes since the last time it ran.

So it looks to be recording before exit and after reload states so it
can do a compare. It is akin to what install monitors can do (e.g.,
Zsoft's Uninstaller): you take a snapshot before and another sometime
later and then compare the two. That is more than what msconfig can do,
or even SysInterals' AutoRuns (you can do a compare between snapshots
but you do that manually, not automatically).

And some programs will add a new entry in Startup if you have disabled
it in MSConfig. Now you have multiple Startups for the very same thing.
That is just sloppy. At least MSConfig should allow deleting of dups,
but it can't even do that right.

One that I recall is Apple with their QuickTime product. It adds the
qttask.exe startup item even if you disable everything in QuickTime that
has to do with this superfluous utility. "Disable" in msconfig (and in
SysInternals' AutoRuns and other similar tools) actually moves the entry
to somewhere else to store those entries but where Windows won't see it
as a startup list. So "disable" actually means to move the entry
elsewhere. When you run QuickTime, gee, it sees its startup entry is
missing so it recreates it although you didn't want it. That's why
something more than a static startup manager is needed to monitor the
reappearance of an item you disabled before and disable it again.

However, if you don't use something to "keep disabled" a startup item
and monitor for its reappearance, and whether the program covertly
re-adds the item or it's due to how you configure a program, it
re-adding that entry is not yet a duplicate. Why? Because msconfig and
AutoRuns moved the entry elsewhere. Just because it shows in the list
as deselected does not mean it still exists in that startup location.
It's been moved elsewhere but simply tracked that it was there before.
Say in msconfig that you deselect an item that was in the HKCU Run key
in the registry. The data item for that startup item gets moved from
HKCU Run to xxxx. AutoRuns has its own backup location in the registry
where it moves "disabled" items. So an entry getting created in the
HKCU Run key that happens to be the same as the one you moved out by
"disabling" it isn't really a duplicate because currently there is just
1 such entry in the HKCU Run key.

The problem comes when you decide to reenable a previously disabled
startup item. What is msconfig or AutoRuns to do when it is told to
move back an item it previously moved into is backup registry location?
How does it know for sure that the existence of the same exact data item
name with the same exact data value is a duplicate? Is there no case
where a program may insert multiple copies of its startup entry in the
same startup location? That's logic you are supposed to exercise. What
if the program did add two identical entries at the same startup
location, like a simple scheme to protect the process so there were two
of them running and one would startup the other if one got killed (i.e.,
trying to prevent the process from getting terminated)?

msconfig only lets you disable a startup item (by moving it to
msconfig's backup location in the registry). AutoRuns uses the same
scheme to disable startup items (by moving them into AutoRun's backup
store); however, AutoRuns also lets you delete an item whether it is in
the startup location or in AutoRun's backup store (for disabled items).
Yet despite knowing how to use AutoRuns, I have accidentally deleted a
disabled item rather than reenable it. Oops, and there is no Undo
function, either. Now how to get it back in the normal startup
location? The user might have a config option in the program that they
can toggle to get it back. Yet I've seen some programs that add their
startup entry only during the installation (i.e., the installer added
the startup entry) so the user has to go ask the software vendor or
other users of the program what they should put back into which startup
location in the registry. msconfig's disable & enable are safe whereas
AutoRuns' delete is hazardous.

msconfig targets casual users. AutoRuns targets more expert users. I
wouldn't expect msconfig to do everything that AutoRuns does, nor would
I expect AutoRuns to do everything some startup monitor tool can do.

Yes, AnVir looks like a nice tool but I personally don't have a need to
spend $50 to get all of what it provides. Freeware does me nicely so
far.

Yes I understand MSConfig is just a basic tool. But even as limited as
it is, even the basic features don't even work correctly. As Char
already mentioned, you can't even resize the window. And it doesn't even
qualify as a true GUI tool.

There are several defects in msconfig. Besides a fixed window size, you
can't sort by clicking on the column headers, you cannot rearrange the
columns by dragging them around, you don't get a choice of other columns
to show to get more or different info, "disable" is misleading because
the entry doesn't really get disabled (it doesn't stay in place and some
masking bit indicates the item is enabled or disabled) but it actually
gets moved elsewhere in the registry, it enables the Apply button which
will trigger the alert on your next login even if you undid your changes
(so there was no change by the time you clicked Apply), disabling a
service doesn't warn you about other services are dependent on the one
you intend to disable, and the boot.ini tab doesn't let you actually
edit the lines in that file.

There are usability problems with msconfig for which the only reason
they never got fixed is that Microsoft's developers never had to use
msconfig. My bet is they're used to directly editing the registry
(albeit through another GUI called regedit.exe since they don't actually
edit the binary database records) rather than use a GUI front-end to the
registry that will always limit what they can do. They (or users) could
replace it with AutoRuns (along with support for the Boot.ini and
selective startup modes but that means a lot of Windows users couldn't
figure out how to use that tool. Of course, it could have a Novice and
Expert switch as to what the tool presents to the user. Yet we are
talking about Windows XP here so we all know nothing is going to change
for msconfig. Development for Windows XP died quite awhile ago.

 

[Char Jackson]

Really? And in which posts are those where this was "already said" AND
also posted *before* my post in this thread?

I assumed that you read every post in the thread, which could very
well be a bad assumption on my part. Mea culpa.