Standard or Widescreen monitor?

A

Agamemnon

kony said:
He was making a point, about how poor a choice it would be
to get a larger CRT and have the 4 windows tiled, and he was
quite right, it would be a very poor and clumsy way to work.
"IF" someone actually needed 4 open windows the obvious
choice is two widescreen LCDs.

Rubbish. 16:9 will barley give you one reasonable sized window for word and
certainly not two. It has no advantage over 4:3 whatsoever as far as
computing is concerned. Its not wide enough to stand two applications side
by side and its two shallow to stack them on to of each other.

At 1920x1440 I have the equivalent to two Cinemascope screens stacked on top
of each other so no need to swivel on my chair or strain my neck to see
every application, and much less space is used on my desk.
 
M

Mike Henry

Most seem to be 5:4.

You could use 1280 x 1024 on those, which is a rare 5:4 aspect ratio
mode (assuming square pixels). But that is pretty much the only
resolution that will look right.
 
D

Dr Zoidberg

So thats equivalent to using 4 little 10" screens at 960*720

A horrible suggestion

Rubbish. 16:9 will barley give you one reasonable sized window for
word and certainly not two. It has no advantage over 4:3 whatsoever
as far as computing is concerned.

1680 * 1050 as I have on my laptop and desktop is a nice resolution to show
two pages side by side in Word , and gives you much more screen area for
Excel where the shape of the window is not so critical.
Its not wide enough to stand two
applications side by side and its two shallow to stack them on to of
each other.

You assume that all applications need a large window.
I frequently have a "main" application open towards the LHS of my screen and
a couple of smaller ones sat off to the RHS clearly visible.
 
A

Agamemnon

Dr Zoidberg said:
So thats equivalent to using 4 little 10" screens at 960*720

A horrible suggestion

I suppose you don't read books then.

960*720 at 10 inches is better than 800x600 at 20 inches. Its the definition
that matters.
1680 * 1050 as I have on my laptop and desktop is a nice resolution to
show two pages side by side in Word , and gives you much more screen area
for Excel where the shape of the window is not so critical.

All you need for two pages side by side is 4:3. 16:10 leaves lots of wasted
space.
You assume that all applications need a large window.
I frequently have a "main" application open towards the LHS of my screen
and a couple of smaller ones sat off to the RHS clearly visible.

Well I can have 4 small applications running in the bottom left hand corner
and 3 full sized windows in the other quadrants or 4 full sized windows over
all. What's more I can have two long columns of icons on visible on the far
left of my desktop while all of this is going on so I can run most
applications directly without needing to move windows or use the start menu.
Then ontop of that I've go Nvidia nView which lets me crate as many separate
desktops as I won't on just one monitor.
 
R

Roderick Stewart

Indeed - f11 is the IE shortcut for fullscreen, presumably copied by
Firefox and others for compatibility. Has various different functions
in M$ desktop apps. Now a quick shortcut to hide all toolbars in Word,
and then get them back again, would be useful but F11 isn't it.

Openoffice has CTRL-SHIFT-J with either the same keys or ESC to return.

Word 2000 only seems to have a mouse option, and I don't know if current versions
have anything neater because I haven't used it for years. It's ridiculously
expensive when there is a very comprehensive alternative which is free.

Rod.
 
R

Roderick Stewart

You assume that all applications need a large window.
I frequently have a "main" application open towards the LHS of my screen and
a couple of smaller ones sat off to the RHS clearly visible.

I have ALT and TAB keys on my keyboard and I know how to use them.

Rod.
 
H

Hawkins

Yes it is great especially when looking at detailed "piccies" on the web
:))

But that aside what you all are forgetting is that The Troll going under the
name of Agamemnon has eyesight with acuity that probably exceeds that of his
hearing prowess. As he has these exceptional powers he presumably has
certified documentary evidence that could be published, indeed they may
already be featured in some medical journals seeing that they are so
exceptional.

If not the men in white coats will soon catch up with him.

Richard.

..
 
B

Bazzer Smith

So thats equivalent to using 4 little 10" screens at 960*720
A horrible suggestion

No its not, not when you consider the alternatives, all of which
will be much worse. Unless you use for monitors stacked in a square.
 
O

Owain

John said:
hides ;-)

No, I'm fairly sure it was sides (of a see-saw), although it's a long
time since I read Jennings.

However, if I'm wrong I'm sure I'll get a "Doh! Stupid boy!"

Owain
 
K

kony

Rubbish. 16:9 will barley give you one reasonable sized window for word and
certainly not two.


You really think 4 tiled windows on a CRT will be
"reasonably sized"?

I'd tried it your way, it's only the last resort if all you
have to work with is the one monitor and for some odd reason
you really need to see all 4 windows at once.

Generally speaking, it's rather silly on a windowing OS to
do it, instead of just using a lower resolution and
maximizing the app currently being used.

Dual widescreen LCDs are by far far better than what you
suggest. It's not even close at all, you have no clue just
how much better the LCD option is.

It has no advantage over 4:3 whatsoever as far as
computing is concerned.

For two side-by-side windows open, widescreen is better.
For general computing with only one open, 4:3 or 5:4 can be
better or not, depending on the task. Probably better
overall, on average for typical work but we weren't talking
about typical work, we were talking about this crazy idea
you had to aim for using a CRT to tile 4 windows to a tiny
blurred size to work with them.
Its not wide enough to stand two applications side
by side and its two shallow to stack them on to of each other.

Widescreen is wide enough. It's not "perfect", but vastly
better than a 2 x 2 tile on a CRT, ESPECIALLY the PITA way
you described it by manually overlapping portions of each
window.

At 1920x1440 I have the equivalent to two Cinemascope screens stacked on top
of each other so no need to swivel on my chair or strain my neck to see
every application, and much less space is used on my desk.


You have a poor solution and don't even realize how much
better it could be to move to two high res widescreen LCDs.
 
K

kony

I will be buying a new monitor but which type should I buy?

Only you can answer that. It's subjective.
We could try to predict how a different resolution or aspect
ratio might effect your habits, but it would be far too easy
to be wrong as crystal balls are seldom guaranteed accurate.

I will admit I am not widescreens biggest 'fan', however what I
like is pretty immaterial as I can't control the format in which
other people produce 'media'.

If thinking about single-use-at-a-time, widescreen LCD are
best for newer commercially produced video and a nice effect
on some games but not well enough supported on games in
general (though certainly in the future, support for them
will rise but how long and whether you are still using the
same LCD at that point for your primary gaming monitor (if
you game on one at all), we cannot predict either).


I currently have a bog standard 14" CRT monitor but I think I will
be going flatscreen (LCD etc) because I want a good sized monitor
and CRT takes up too much room really.

Before my first LCD I thought that too, it'll be nice for it
to take up less space. Now I have a lot of empty space
behind my monitor. Someday I'll put something behind it to
take up the space, maybe.

Mostly I love the per-pixel clarity, vastly diminished
flicker (I can discern even 100Hz refresh rate though I can
work ok with 75Hz or above), and considering your present
monitor seems older and possibly curved, it would be lower
glare too unless the LCD you choose has a hard coating or
plate over it. That can increase the perceived contrast,
but overall I still prefer uncoated (except on a laptop
where the extra protection is nice).

Even now some sites seem to be standard and other widescreen so
whatever I get it wil be 'wrong'. (Thanks to the 'inventor' of widescreen).

Some 'sites were always wrong and always will be because the
creator foolishly tries to fit everything and the kitchen
sink on the page, or possibly as bad, they try to have vast
open areas of wasted space so they can have more colored
gradients.

Do any of you have a WS monitor?

Yes, and non.
Do you like them?

If I had only one, it'd be 4:3, 1600x1200.
That's my suggestion unless you have a specific reason to
pick something else.
I kind of see a big problem with them because obviously they are too sort in
height.
For example, many PDF documents are A4 page size, this is a problem in say
Adobe Acrobat because even on a standard monitor you can only see about half
the page, it will be much worse on a WS. I feel like turning my monitor
through
90 degrees, can you do this with some monitors?

With some (typically mid to higher end models), but you may
find you don't need to do it at all because each pixel is so
much more clear and because (assuming you get at least a 19"
which I highly recommend if not 20.x") of the larger size,
you may find you don't need to maximize the window or fit to
fill the whole screen as you would with the 14: CRT.

I suggest you go to a store where they let you navigate
around on their systems on display. See what you find
usable.

Also there is all the toolbars etc (google norton etc...) which reduce the
vertical
height of the screen anyway, making my standard monitor, widescreen in a
way,
on a true widescreen monitor doesn't this look kind of ridulous? The
'useable'
screen area must be 5.75 by 10.75 which is a ratio of 1.86:1
on a WS monitor the situation will be even worse, I am thinking it is going
to
be close to 2.5:1 or even 3:1.


It depends on what size you buy. I would not recommend 19"
or lower widescreen for the reasons you suggested above, at
least not for a primary monitor. Once you go to a larger
LCD and higher native resolution, then the factors I'd
mentioned above begin to apply again.

Can anyone with a WS monitor tell me the ratio of the free screen area, its
a bit
har d for me to work out. I am working on the basis you have 3 (tool)bars
at the top and the start button bar at the bottom. There is also a
'mini-bar'
above both these bars, in a normal set up.

That depends on the size of your toolbars, taskbar, etc.
I think the primary question for someone buying "today" is
do they plan on watching a lot of commercially produced
video on it?

Forget I wrote that, I still suggest a 1600x1200 as the
first replacement for your CRT, except if you'll be gaming
and your video card can't push the pixels fast enough on
your games at 1600x1200. You may find FSAA even more usable
(desirable) on LCD because unlike CRT, LCD doesn't blur the
edges of pixels together. That's not necessarily bad, quite
the opposite but I think you will start to realize your tv
and games have image glitches you didn't notice because you
were watching on a small CRT.

Another point is 'native resolution', or whatever, will this affect things?

Plan to always use the native resolution. It's not
absolutely horrible on non-native but once you get used to
the higher /native resolution, you'll probably prefer to
leave it there and will have new habits to do whatever
things you'll be doing.


I am probably thinking a big standard shape monitor would be best?
I incidently I have a Freecom DTTV stick so I sometime watch TV
on my PC, but the monitor shape is not really a problem as you watch in
a nicely framed box, you don't get black ugly bars wasteing space as you
do on a proper TV.


Like anything else the budget would have to be considered.
If at least 20" is manageable, again I suggest 1600x1200 4:3
LCD except for the caveat above about gaming speed. If you
want to go significantly larger than 20.x", widescreen then
becomes more versatile for typical uses because of both the
higher res. and the higher physical space to view.

Then there's multiple monitors... depends on how you'll use
the system most, everything's a compromise.
 
A

Agamemnon

kony said:
You really think 4 tiled windows on a CRT will be
"reasonably sized"?

It not a matter of think. Its know.
I'd tried it your way, it's only the last resort if all you
have to work with is the one monitor and for some odd reason
you really need to see all 4 windows at once.

It's not a last resort. I could have 2 monitors connected to my graphics
card if I wanted. Tried it that way and it was pointless. Had to keep
turning my head. Everything tiled or floating on one screen is best.
Generally speaking, it's rather silly on a windowing OS to
do it, instead of just using a lower resolution and
maximizing the app currently being used.

What the hell is the point of only having only one app running on screen on
a multitasking OS. I work with multiple apps open at the same time so I can
read text from one app while typing into another or search multiple folders
and web pages simultaneously or work on one app while I wait for another to
finish its task while monitoring it.
Dual widescreen LCDs are by far far better than what you

No they are not. 16:9 is an utterly useless screen ratio for a computer
monitor. Its either too wide for word processing or two narrow for web
surfing with two browses open at the same time. All you get with a 16:9 and
worse still a 16:10 monitor is a restricted view of the document you are
looking at. On a 4:3 monitor you can display 2 full height documents in 2
instances of Word side by side at 1920x1440. On a 16:10 monitor you'd loose
the bottom half of the page using 1920x1200. That's 240 lines gone.
suggest. It's not even close at all, you have no clue just
how much better the LCD option is.

How much worse it is you mean. Since in order to see anything on an LCD
screen you have to be looking at it straight on it extremely difficult to
see and even image on two monitors that are angled in a V towards you. On
top of that there's is the problem of annoying dead pixels and I am not
paying 100's of pounds for a monitor that's defective which the
manufactures will not replace.
For two side-by-side windows open, widescreen is better.

No its not. For word processing a 4:3 screen at 1920x1440 will give you full
height whereas a widescreen monitor wont.
For general computing with only one open, 4:3 or 5:4 can be
better or not, depending on the task. Probably better
overall, on average for typical work but we weren't talking
about typical work, we were talking about this crazy idea
you had to aim for using a CRT to tile 4 windows to a tiny
blurred size to work with them.

It is not tiny and it is not blurred. It's a larger area per quadrant than
800x600 which people have been using for over a decade. Four windows open
with 4:3 is better than 1.5 open with 16:9/10 which is what you really get.
What's more a CRT is brighter than an LCD display and you can look at it
from any angle and get uniform brightness.
Widescreen is wide enough. It's not "perfect", but vastly

Not 16:9. Panavision or Cinemascope is what you need, then I'd be able to
tile 6 or 8 windows on top of each other respectively.
better than a 2 x 2 tile on a CRT, ESPECIALLY the PITA way
you described it by manually overlapping portions of each
window.

I told you already I don't need to overlap since 1920x1440 already surpassed
4 800x600 windows and with overlapping only the unused top and bottom bars
and scroll bars which you don't need to use if you have a scroll mouse you
will get the equivalent working area of 1024x764 if you want to use widows
larger than 960x720.
You have a poor solution and don't even realize how much
better it could be to move to two high res widescreen LCDs.

I have the best solution. One large monitor capable of 2048x1536 verses 4
1024x768 LCD's which of course would require 2 graphics cards. In fact if I
were to get two monitors I'd get another CRT capable of 2048x1536 and plug
it into the other monitor output on my card and then I'd be able to have 8
windows tiled on my screens.
 
T

ThePunisher

Bazzer Smith said:
960X720 bigger than the 800X600 I have been using for the last 10
years.

Hmmm, 960X720 x4 on a 19" bigger than 800x600 on a 14", I don't think so,
more pixles doesn't mean bigger picture.
 
R

Roderick Stewart

Not easy to do when you are eating your dinner.

Neither is typing, or retouching pictures, or whatever you're doing with all
those open windows. If you have enough spare hands to use a program, you
should have enough to switch between them.

Rod.
 
P

Pyriform

ThePunisher said:
"Agamemnon" wrote

Baaaahahhahhaha, of course you can Kal-El.

Well, I for one believe him. This is the man whose hearing goes up to 28
kHz, remember. I expect that he can also leap tall buildings in a single
bound.
 
A

Adrian A

Pyriform said:
Well, I for one believe him. This is the man whose hearing goes up to
28 kHz, remember. I expect that he can also leap tall buildings in a
single bound.

He's not the Stig is he? ;-)
 
K

kony

Baaaahahhahhaha, of course you can Kal-El.


He might be able to in certain situations, like 1 light
pixel among a field of dark, but the light pixel won't look
the way it's supposed to, nor the adjacent dark ones.
They'll be blurred together.
 

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