SP2 Really Necessary??

[Bob Hunt]

I have read so many horror stories on here about the SP2, I am hesitant to
put it on my computers that are working, and having no problems. I use
Mozilla Firefox, have a router (firewall), AntiVirus, Spybot, SpySweeper,
Ad-Aware, and SpamFilter installed on both of them. What if anything other
that the touted security from Microsoft will the SP2 provide me? I don't
like problems. It appears that getting a successful SP2 installation is
really a hit or miss type installation. Is it really worth the hassle?
I would like to see the pro and cons on this.

 

[Mike H]

SP2 will not go away.. sooner or later, you will have to install it.. why
not do it now?.. take a look at this website..

http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/spackins.htm

 

[Neil Howie]

1 - Decide if you want the new features or not. Read what Microsoft say
and read the mag reviews.

2 - If you decide not to risk it, you can keep running Windows Update.
In case you hadn't noticed, every critical update since SP1 was
installed has been described as SP2 and is in there anyway. (I suppose
now they are called SP3)

--
Neil

Anti-spam - Domain is really oakleaf ~ idps ~ co ~ uk (change ~ to dot)


|I have read so many horror stories on here about the SP2, I am hesitant
to
| put it on my computers that are working, and having no problems. I
use
| Mozilla Firefox, have a router (firewall), AntiVirus, Spybot,
SpySweeper,
| Ad-Aware, and SpamFilter installed on both of them. What if anything
other
| that the touted security from Microsoft will the SP2 provide me? I
don't
| like problems. It appears that getting a successful SP2 installation
is
| really a hit or miss type installation. Is it really worth the
hassle?
| I would like to see the pro and cons on this.
|
| --
| HELP STOP SPAM
| 100% Accuracy and Zero False Positives
| http://www.cloudmark.com/?rc=k6pw3
| Enter Referral Code: k6pw3
|
|
|

 

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

SP2 is a solid, secure release. It is a major "Critical Update"
for Windows XP and updates about 5 million lines of code,
enabling much stronger security, stability, and affords a tad better
performance benefit. I would encourage you to install it.

You may wish to view the following:

Top 10 Reasons to Install Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2)
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/topten.mspx

List of fixes included in Windows XP Service Pack 2
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;811113&Product=windowsxpsp2

Learn About Windows XP Service Pack 2
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/preinstall.mspx

What to Know Before You Download and Install Windows XP Service Pack 2
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/sp2_whattoknow.mspx

Support WebCast: How to obtain and install Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=885631

Welcome to "Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2) Chat".
You can get no charge Windows XP SP2 support here:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=Wxpsp2chat

Scan your PC for the presence of viruses and spyware before installing SP2:

Download Ad-aware SE and scan your PC for the presence of spyware:
http://www.download.com/3000-2144-10045910.html?part=69274&subj=dlpage&tag=button

Symantec Security Check
http://security.symantec.com/sscv6/default.asp?langid=ie&venid=sym

I would suggest performing the following maintenance prior to
installing SP2:

Description of the Disk Cleanup Tool in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;310312&Product=winxp

How to Perform Disk Error Checking in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;315265&Product=winxp

After installing SP2, run the above maintenance utilities again, then perform a Defrag:

HOW TO: Analyze and Defragment a Disk in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;305781&Product=winxp


--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User

Be Smart! Protect Your PC!
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:

| I have read so many horror stories on here about the SP2, I am hesitant to
| put it on my computers that are working, and having no problems. I use
| Mozilla Firefox, have a router (firewall), AntiVirus, Spybot, SpySweeper,
| Ad-Aware, and SpamFilter installed on both of them. What if anything other
| that the touted security from Microsoft will the SP2 provide me? I don't
| like problems. It appears that getting a successful SP2 installation is
| really a hit or miss type installation. Is it really worth the hassle?
| I would like to see the pro and cons on this.
|
| --

 

[Jim L]

I saw Carey's signature....shouldn't that be Shill/User ???

 

[Guest]

I have read so many horror stories on here about the SP2, I am hesitant to
put it on my computers that are working, and having no problems. I use
Mozilla Firefox, have a router (firewall), AntiVirus, Spybot, SpySweeper,
Ad-Aware, and SpamFilter installed on both of them. What if anything other
that the touted security from Microsoft will the SP2 provide me? I don't
like problems. It appears that getting a successful SP2 installation is
really a hit or miss type installation. Is it really worth the hassle?
I would like to see the pro and cons on this.

--
HELP STOP SPAM
100% Accuracy and Zero False Positives
http://www.cloudmark.com/?rc=k6pw3
Enter Referral Code: k6pw3

This is from a newsletter I recieve and it may be a couple of weeks old but
it is
still good advice,
NOTE: It is from a "computer expert" that is not related to Microsoft.

1) Go Slow With XP's SP2
Many readers are wondering what to do about XP's SP2, which is starting to
trickle out in a limited release. But over the next few weeks, just about all
XP users will be offered the download in a carefully sequenced rollout
designed to prevent the overload of Microsoft's servers.

When you're offered SP2, my advice is: Do nothing; wait a bit.

SP2 is huge--- so big it's almost a whole new version of XP. Like any new
version of any OS, it *will* contain bugs, and it *will* cause trouble on
some setups. The more complex and/or nonstandard your setup is, the greater
the likelihood of a problem.

Plus, there's no "must have right now" element to SP2: Much of SP2 is
designed to force uninformed (or just plain lazy!) PC users to use basic
security--- to stay current with updates, to use a firewall, etc. (These are
the users running the unpatched/unprotected systems that allow most
worms/viruses to spread.)

But odds are, if you're reading this newsletter, you already know about and
are using pretty good security practices, such as good firewall, antivirus
and anti-spyware tools, and you're keeping up to date with Critical Updates.
If that's the case, you won't gain a lot by rushing into SP2.

Instead, wait a bit--- even as much as a month or two--- to let the worst
problems with SP2 come to light and be fixed on other user's PCs.

Again, as long as you're already using the kinds of security tools and
techniques we discuss in this newsletter every week (example:
http://www.informationweek.com/840/langa.htm ), there's no need to rush into
SP2.

I'm not the only one suggesting this "go slow" approach. See, for example
these other authors:
http://www.scotsnewsletter.com/60.htm
http://channelzone.ziffdavis.com/article2/0,1759,1633858,00.asp

But if you absolutely must try it as soon as you can, MAKE A FULL IMAGE
BACKUP OF YOUR SYSTEM! (There, I hope that got your attention! <g>) You can
use a free trial version of BootIt for example (
http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/ ), and have a bulletproof way to roll your
system back to pre-SP2 condition if things don't work out. Note that standard
uninstall, backup or roll-back tools (like Go Back) may NOT suffice for an
update of this size and scope. If you want to be 100% sure you can undo SP2
in its totality, you *must* use a heavy-duty imaging tool. See
http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp-q=imaging&sp-a=0008002a-sp00000000 .

But for most of us, the answer's simpler: Relax! Take a break, and let
others blaze a trail for you! Eventually, SP2 will be worth installing, but
for most of us--- almost everyone--- there's no particular need for, or
benefit from, being an early

 

[River_Rat]

You only hear about the people having issues with the install on the
newsgroups & forums, most of these computers having troubles with the
install had serious issues before the install and people were using the
install as a fix and in turn caused more problems, SP2 is no different from
any SP with any OS it should not be used as a fix for a problem, you do not
hear about the millions of people that have installed it with no problems
and are happy and much more secure.

How to install SP2 update

Download to a folder or use the SP2 CD, then do the following.

If using the update site do this before installing.



1) Run CW Shredder

http://www.majorgeeks.com/download4086.html


2) Run Ad-Aware SE

http://www.majorgeeks.com/download506.html


3) Run Spybot S&D

http://www.majorgeeks.com/download2471.html


4) Run 2 different free virus scanners

http://housecall.trendmicro.com/housecall/start_corp.asp

http://us.mcafee.com/root/mfs/default.asp?affid=294


5) Do it all 1 more time. (Maybe a little overkill, better safe then sorry)


6) Turn Off System Restore to delete any trash trapped in them files.
(Reboot)

http://vil.nai.com/vil/SystemHelpDocs/DisableSysRestore.htm



7) Delete Temp & Temp. Internet files.

http://www.aarp.org/computers-howto/Articles/a2002-07-15-tempfiles.html


8) Turn System Restore back on Create a Restore Point.


9) Unplug everything except the Monitor, Keyboard, & Mouse.


10) Shutdown Virus Protection


11) Proceed with install.

--
Good Day
River_Rat




I have read so many horror stories on here about the SP2, I am hesitant to
put it on my computers that are working, and having no problems. I use
Mozilla Firefox, have a router (firewall), AntiVirus, Spybot, SpySweeper,
Ad-Aware, and SpamFilter installed on both of them. What if anything other
that the touted security from Microsoft will the SP2 provide me? I don't
like problems. It appears that getting a successful SP2 installation is
really a hit or miss type installation. Is it really worth the hassle?
I would like to see the pro and cons on this.

 

[Gordie]

Hi,
I too read that LangaList article and still feel that most of the
information/advice offered then is relevant now and may be used to make an
informed decision about SP2 installation.
Let me state for the record that I have installed SP2 on my machine with
virtually no problems and at the time of writing this no issues have
appeared.
I would however like to comment on two things that I gathered from Fred's
article/Information week and these are;
1) The general position of big companies which seem to be one of
take-it-slow or wait-and-see, and
2) The Assetmetrix findings.

Re: 1) The fact that some corporate entities are in no rush, is corroborated
by Mike Brannigan's own comments:

[[A number of our corporate customers allow their users to have the
automatic
download setting on for most of the small patches and security updates we
ship.
However the size, nature and complexity of SP2 means that the corporate
wanted time to allow them to test and verify it for their environments
before the end user automatically picks it up, so we issued a temporary
patch that disabled this updates but allowed others until a certain date
after which time the patch will no longer work and those users will receive
SP2.
--

Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights]]

This can be interpreted any number of ways, but it sounds to me like those
companies were/are saying to Microsoft " now hold on a minute, we want to
take a closer look at SP2 before we unleash it!"
If the corporations are taking it slow, I don't see why the home user
couldn't take the same (or an even more conservative) view, given that
companies generally have stronger resources/staff to cope with system
crashes etc. than the average home user. Yet a campaign is being waged by
Microsoft staff and affiliated persons, to get home users (and whoever
else), to install SP2, ASAP!!

Re: 2) Their survey (preliminary no doubt) indicates that roughly 10% of all
machines which had SP2 installed *could* have a problem and while this may
be anything from the need for a tweak here or there, to something as
cataclysmic as having to reinstall the OS, 10% by conventional statistical
standards, is HIGHLY significant ( in the scientific understanding).
If as we have heard from Microsoft, SP2 has been deployed on "thousands" of
PCs, more data (re: SP2 success/failure)should now exist and it should be
posted here to help persons make up their own minds.

 

[Mike H]

IBM and companies like them always tell staff not to load anything that
hasn't been approved by the company.. it is NOT a reflection on Microsoft
necessarily.. company servers run all kinds of stuff and on different
platforms.. they just want to make sure that the entire system is not
brought down..

Hi,
I too read that LangaList article and still feel that most of the
information/advice offered then is relevant now and may be used to make an
informed decision about SP2 installation.
Let me state for the record that I have installed SP2 on my machine with
virtually no problems and at the time of writing this no issues have
appeared.
I would however like to comment on two things that I gathered from Fred's
article/Information week and these are;
1) The general position of big companies which seem to be one of
take-it-slow or wait-and-see, and
2) The Assetmetrix findings.

Re: 1) The fact that some corporate entities are in no rush, is
corroborated by Mike Brannigan's own comments:

[[A number of our corporate customers allow their users to have the
automatic
download setting on for most of the small patches and security updates we
ship.
However the size, nature and complexity of SP2 means that the corporate
wanted time to allow them to test and verify it for their environments
before the end user automatically picks it up, so we issued a temporary
patch that disabled this updates but allowed others until a certain date
after which time the patch will no longer work and those users will
receive
SP2.
--

Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights]]

This can be interpreted any number of ways, but it sounds to me like those
companies were/are saying to Microsoft " now hold on a minute, we want to
take a closer look at SP2 before we unleash it!"
If the corporations are taking it slow, I don't see why the home user
couldn't take the same (or an even more conservative) view, given that
companies generally have stronger resources/staff to cope with system
crashes etc. than the average home user. Yet a campaign is being waged by
Microsoft staff and affiliated persons, to get home users (and whoever
else), to install SP2, ASAP!!

Re: 2) Their survey (preliminary no doubt) indicates that roughly 10% of
all machines which had SP2 installed *could* have a problem and while this
may be anything from the need for a tweak here or there, to something as
cataclysmic as having to reinstall the OS, 10% by conventional statistical
standards, is HIGHLY significant ( in the scientific understanding).
If as we have heard from Microsoft, SP2 has been deployed on "thousands"
of PCs, more data (re: SP2 success/failure)should now exist and it should
be posted here to help persons make up their own minds.

 

[Gordie]

Aren't the home systems of millions of users just as important, or is it OK
if a couple of *those* systems are brought down?

IBM and companies like them always tell staff not to load anything that
hasn't been approved by the company.. it is NOT a reflection on Microsoft
necessarily.. company servers run all kinds of stuff and on different
platforms.. they just want to make sure that the entire system is not
brought down..

Hi,
I too read that LangaList article and still feel that most of the
information/advice offered then is relevant now and may be used to make
an informed decision about SP2 installation.
Let me state for the record that I have installed SP2 on my machine with
virtually no problems and at the time of writing this no issues have
appeared.
I would however like to comment on two things that I gathered from Fred's
article/Information week and these are;
1) The general position of big companies which seem to be one of
take-it-slow or wait-and-see, and
2) The Assetmetrix findings.

Re: 1) The fact that some corporate entities are in no rush, is
corroborated by Mike Brannigan's own comments:

[[A number of our corporate customers allow their users to have the
automatic
download setting on for most of the small patches and security updates we
ship.
However the size, nature and complexity of SP2 means that the corporate
wanted time to allow them to test and verify it for their environments
before the end user automatically picks it up, so we issued a temporary
patch that disabled this updates but allowed others until a certain date
after which time the patch will no longer work and those users will
receive
SP2.
--

Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights]]

This can be interpreted any number of ways, but it sounds to me like
those companies were/are saying to Microsoft " now hold on a minute, we
want to take a closer look at SP2 before we unleash it!"
If the corporations are taking it slow, I don't see why the home user
couldn't take the same (or an even more conservative) view, given that
companies generally have stronger resources/staff to cope with system
crashes etc. than the average home user. Yet a campaign is being waged by
Microsoft staff and affiliated persons, to get home users (and whoever
else), to install SP2, ASAP!!

Re: 2) Their survey (preliminary no doubt) indicates that roughly 10% of
all machines which had SP2 installed *could* have a problem and while
this may be anything from the need for a tweak here or there, to
something as cataclysmic as having to reinstall the OS, 10% by
conventional statistical standards, is HIGHLY significant ( in the
scientific understanding).
If as we have heard from Microsoft, SP2 has been deployed on "thousands"
of PCs, more data (re: SP2 success/failure)should now exist and it should
be posted here to help persons make up their own minds.

 

[Guest]

You're kidding right?

"SP2 is a solid, secure release."..."stronger security, stability, and
affords a tad better performance benefit."

I about crapped my pants laughing so hard at this.

No offense but 450 pages of 20 error question on each, mostly all different
issues from one another, tells me that either A. You can't read very well or
B. Microsoft is paying you an extra fee to push this unsecure draconian
producct upon the masses.
You know as well as I do that our American population is so stupid that they
will believe you when you tell them how great this is.

Sorry but this software update is pure crap.
Nothing but hell is unleashed upon everyones computer.

I give microsoft its credit in the past but lately, since getting into bed
with the feds, it has gone to hell in a handbasket. You know it, I know it,
and maybe a few others in here know it.

I suggest to everyone, get rid of SP2. It's crap. You don't need it if you
have your own firewall, own virus scanner you keep up-to-date, and spyware
removal.

-It had to be said. Your product is crap. Sorry.

 

[Mike H]

I know of 4 people personally who have no problems with SP2, and more than a
few acquaintances who also have no problem with the SP2 install.. then there
are the very many that I don't know who are having no problems with the SP2
install..

I would suggest that you will end up in a small minority of people who,
because of personal concepts, will not get full benefit from XP in the
future.. your call..

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

"No offense but 450 pages of 20 error question on each"
Did you look over those carefully?
If you are referring to the lists I have seen, it appears you haven't.

Many of those do not even apply to SP-2.
Others are known and expected issues resulting from new security and
quick fixes.
Others are user error.

The number often stated is about 10% of computers will have issues of
some kind with SP-2.
When you remove the above, the % drops.

Nothing can guarantee a successful installation of SP-2, but
preparation can put your computer at the very low % of having issues.

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

There is a major difference in Home users that you seem to miss.
Businesses often have large numbers of computers.
If their IT department is doing their job while waiting they are
verifying on a sample of typical test computers for compatibility of
hardware and software to the Service Pack.
This is what they do before any software or hardware is installed on
the company computers, not just Microsoft products.

The typical home user does not have many computers.
Usually the computers they have are radically different so a test on
one computer has little or no relevance on other computers.

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

There is a problem with that letter.
"wait a bit"
Wait for what?
"to let the worst problems with SP2 come to light and be fixed on
other user's PCs"
That is OK as long as you are actively researching possible issues on
your computer.
Otherwise simply waiting is a waste of time.
The SP-2 of today is the same as SP-2 available in a year, do not wait
for a change that will never arrive.

Instead research possible issues and insure the computer is ready for
SP-2:
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/xpsp2.htm
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/spackins.htm

 

[Gordie]

Well with regards to what the companies were doing, those were my
impressions and maybe it's more routine procedure on their part, than what
can be perceived as reluctance to install SP2. However, the overall tone of
the article is not one that encourages users to just go ahead and install
it. The overwhelming theme is one of "don't rush into it" and I still feel
that there is a kind of recklessness in the way folks are being pushed
(here) to install SP2. A 1 in 10 chance of having a problem are very big
odds.
Providing supporting information to users re the install is fine. If the
user of their own volition then wants to go ahead and install SP2, great!,
more power to them and best of luck, but nobody should be *pressured* into
installing it because the chances as far as we know, is still 1 in 10
machines developing a problem.

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Gordie;
My point is waiting is not a problem and can be good, just have a plan
otherwise it is time wasted.
I also feel the article is poorly written largely because it does not
really suggest what to do while waiting.
As I said, waiting without a plan is a waste of time.
So it seems the article is possibly suggesting there may be a
replacement for SP-2...there will not, or that people waste their
time.

As for a 1 in 10 chance, that also includes simple reconfigurations
expected because the new features.
It also includes the need for new drivers or patches, also expected
especially if research is done first.
There are also viruses, spyware and other problems known and unknown
that are mostly preventable if routine maintenance is performed.
If the above are taken care of in advance, the !05 drops, probably
considerably.

Generally I think the computers need SP-2.
But it is also important to go with SP-2 informed ands ready, that is
why I have web pages dedicated to SP-2.

See these 3 links if you have not already:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/helpandsupport/ballew_04sept20.mspx
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/spackins.htm
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/xpsp2.htm