SNTP service from Windows XP or Windows Vista?

S

Sven Pran

For various reasons I have a firewall completely inhibiting
some of the older computers in my local network from
accessing Internet while they still have full access to all
computers on my local network.

However I would still like to maintain syncronization of the
system clocks in these computers if that is possible, so I
did a crude test of simply specifying the local IP addresses
for one computer running Windows XP and one computer
running Windows Vista in my local network to my SNTP
client program (D4).

Not exactly unexpected my SNTP client timed out waiting
for answers.

Is my idea at all tenable or would I need a local server (which
I do not have and have absolutely no intention of procuring)

regards Sven

(Intentionally cross-posted as this relates to both XP and Vista)
 
C

Charlie Tame

Sven said:
For various reasons I have a firewall completely inhibiting
some of the older computers in my local network from
accessing Internet while they still have full access to all
computers on my local network.

However I would still like to maintain syncronization of the
system clocks in these computers if that is possible, so I
did a crude test of simply specifying the local IP addresses
for one computer running Windows XP and one computer
running Windows Vista in my local network to my SNTP
client program (D4).

Not exactly unexpected my SNTP client timed out waiting
for answers.

Is my idea at all tenable or would I need a local server (which
I do not have and have absolutely no intention of procuring)

regards Sven

(Intentionally cross-posted as this relates to both XP and Vista)
Click to expand...


That used to work Sven, net time set should give you options and
syntax... of course you will have to allow access to the right port in
the server machine.

IIRC you have to set the server ip or network name using the net time
command line setting, but it seem like it just "Worked". There may be a
service you have to start in Vista, but if you use net time you
shouldn't need any 3rd party software at all.
 
S

Sven Pran

Charlie Tame said:
http://technet2.microsoft.com/Windo...3113-4cff-a24a-f2ccca6ca4141033.mspx?mfr=true

This link may help, seems like it have become a little more
sophisticated...
Click to expand...

Thanks.

I must admit I had some problems digesting that article, but at least it
indicates that Windows Vista can indeed be configured the way I hope
(although I missed a precise description on how to do this configuration):

1: Syncronize its own system clock with an external time reference.
2: Provide SNTP services to other computers in my LAN.

At present I have Dimension D4Time set up on my XP computer doing
both these activities. A Windows 98 computer on my LAN uses D4Time
as a pure SNTP client for syncronizing time from this XP compuoter.

But D4Time is not (yet?) announced to support Windows Vista, and soon
my new Vista computer will take over as my main computer leaving it
undesirable to have XP providing SNTP services in my LAN.
 
C

Charlie Tame

Sven said:
Thanks.

I must admit I had some problems digesting that article, but at least it
indicates that Windows Vista can indeed be configured the way I hope
(although I missed a precise description on how to do this configuration):

1: Syncronize its own system clock with an external time reference.
2: Provide SNTP services to other computers in my LAN.

At present I have Dimension D4Time set up on my XP computer doing
both these activities. A Windows 98 computer on my LAN uses D4Time
as a pure SNTP client for syncronizing time from this XP compuoter.

But D4Time is not (yet?) announced to support Windows Vista, and soon
my new Vista computer will take over as my main computer leaving it
undesirable to have XP providing SNTP services in my LAN.
Click to expand...


Well there are other articles but was at work clearing snow so didn't
have time to look harder.

IIRC it was completely successful from the client end as far back as
Windows 3.1, though maybe you used Netbios name and no IP... but W2000
certainly could do it. Haven't bothered since to check the setup as I
don't really need it at home.
 
T

the wharf rat

For various reasons I have a firewall completely inhibiting
some of the older computers in my local network from
accessing Internet while they still have full access to all
computers on my local network.

However I would still like to maintain syncronization of the
system clocks in these computers if that is possible, so I
Click to expand...

The easisest solution is just to pass port 123 (UDP) and allow them
to synch with an internet time server. If you can't do that Windows server
includes the time service (it's required for Kerberos) so you could synch
the your local Windows server(s).
 
S

Sven Pran

the wharf rat said:
The easisest solution is just to pass port 123 (UDP) and allow them
to synch with an internet time server. If you can't do that Windows
server
includes the time service (it's required for Kerberos) so you could synch
the your local Windows server(s).
Click to expand...

The problem is that when I tried to just specify the IP address of my
local Windows Vista machine to the SNTP client in the Windows 98
machine the client (D4Time) received no response and just timed out.

Apparently (and not unexpected) I must configure my Windows Vista
to provide SNTP services for other machines in my LAN, but I am at
a loss on what configuration specifications are needed?

I have no Windows Server and have no intention of getting one.

(D4Time provides SNTP services in addition to act as SNTP client
when run on Windows XP, but is not documented to be Vista
compatible.)

regards Sven
 
S

Sven Pran

the wharf rat said:
It's quite a pain.

http://technet2.microsoft.com/Windo...3113-4cff-a24a-f2ccca6ca4141033.mspx?mfr=true

You're really better off just passing 123 UDP.

Wonder why they made it so hard to set up in Vista?
Click to expand...

As a matter of security I do not want to allow anything between this
computer and Internet

I have already read the article above and am no more wiser.

The article contains several references to:

Computer Configuration\Administrative Templates\System\Windows Time Service

and I cannot even locate the root: "Computer Configuration", whatever that
is.

Nor have I so far fouond any advice in my Vista on how it can be set to give
(S)NTP
service to other (local) computers.

Sven
 
C

Charlie Tame

Sven said:
As a matter of security I do not want to allow anything between this
computer and Internet

I have already read the article above and am no more wiser.

The article contains several references to:

Computer Configuration\Administrative Templates\System\Windows Time Service

and I cannot even locate the root: "Computer Configuration", whatever that
is.

Nor have I so far fouond any advice in my Vista on how it can be set to give
(S)NTP
service to other (local) computers.

Sven
Click to expand...


In the XP and earlier systems, under "Services", it was just a matter os
setting "Windows Time" service to start automatically.

That would serve NTP to any LAN machine asking for it using the same as
below.

You would then set that machine to get it's time from the internet using
NET TIME /SETSNTP:12.12.12.12 (or similar syntax - please check that as
my memory is not that great.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=net+time+set&btnG=Google+Search
Click to expand...

If Vista does not have that service I don't know, but the GUI now allows
setting time to an internet clock for the Vista machine anyway.
 
T

the wharf rat

You would then set that machine to get it's time from the internet using
NET TIME /SETSNTP:12.12.12.12 (or similar syntax - please check that as
my memory is not that great.
Click to expand...

That's easy to do in Vista, too. Passing ntp queries is safe since
you contact a known server. For this to be insecure there'd A) have to be
a useable exploit allowing code executuion against the ntp service and B) a
way for the attacker to compromise your routing tables to send traffic to his
server or a way for the attacker to compromise the remote server itself.

If the original poster really can't pass these queries and doesn't
want to bother with Vista as a time server (it's a pain) then s simple
Linux setup with an interface on the internet and an interface on the lan
could function as the local time server. You could even install a radio
clock and dispense with the internet entirely.
 
S

Sven Pran

Charlie Tame said:
In the XP and earlier systems, under "Services", it was just a matter os
setting "Windows Time" service to start automatically.

That would serve NTP to any LAN machine asking for it using the same as
below. ................
If Vista does not have that service I don't know
Click to expand...

It is there too, I found it - and it was already set to start automatically
so now I just have to find out why it didn't seem to work when I first
tried it.

Thanks.

regards Sven
 

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