SIP/SIMPLE Messenger protocol.

U

Umesh Balani

Hi Guys, How are you doing.
I am based in Delhi and work for a dev company. I have don't a few projects
on Virtual Conference Applications.
There are two things I wanna talk about here.

Firstly
----------

What I've heard is that MS with its new messenger is leaving its proprietary
protocol and going ahead with SIP/SIMPLE protocol.
As a matter of fact, I have even tried this Windows Messenger, setup TTCP to
listen on 5060 and connect through
Windows Messenger v4.7.2009 to connect on my server.
Here's the what TTCP dumped
Info :: [<--] points to the start of actual data received
=================================================
E:\>ttcp -r -s -p5060 -u
ttcp-r: local 0.0.0.0
ttcp-r: buflen=8192, nbuf=2048, align=16384/+0, port=5060 udp
ttcp-r: recvfrom 172.17.24.96
REGISTER sip:172.17.24.96 SIP/2.0 [<--]
Via: SIP/2.0/UDP 172.17.24.96:14946
From: <sip:[email protected]>;tag=355490f0-31b2-42e0-b761-d1ab253b1b33
To: <sip:[email protected]>
Call-ID: [email protected]
CSeq: 1 REGISTER
Contact: <sip:172.17.24.96:14946>;methods="INVITE, MESSAGE, INFO, SUBSCRIBE,
OPTIONS, BYE, CANCEL, NOT IFY, ACK"
User-Agent: Windows RTC/1.0
Expires: 1200
Event: registration
Allow-Events: presence
Content-Length: 0
=================================================
I understand that this is using SIP protocol, RFC 3261 i.e.
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3261.txt
Now what I am confused with, is when I used MSN Messenger 6 to connect to
my local machine [I modified the hosts file to point messenger.hotmail.com
host to my local IP]
The connection request is still following the old protocol.
=================================================
E:\>ttcp -r -s -p1863
ttcp-r: local 172.17.24.96 <- remote 172.17.24.96
ttcp-r: buflen=8192, nbuf=2048, align=16384/+0, port=1863 tcp VER 2 MSNP9
MSNP8 CVR0 [<--]
PNG
PNG
ttcp-r: 34 bytes in 59999 real milliseconds = 0 KB/sec
ttcp-r: 4 I/O calls, msec/call = 14999, calls/sec = 0, bytes/call = 8
=================================================
Has anyone got any ideas, why is MS not following the SIP protocol for its
Messenger 6 version.
=================================================

Secondly
----------

I am part of the team who has been assigned the responsibility to choose the
protocol for our own Messenger Product.
Yes, our product will support Audio/Video and all other Multimiedia
applications.
I request anyone who have got their hands dirty inunderstanding Messenger
protocols and aplications and especially MVP's
to tell me is SIP/SIMPLE protocol better than the Jabber based XMPP
protocol.

Any comments/answers will be highly appreciated.

Also, if this is not the right newsgroup, can someone guide me to some
newsgroups when i could get some help.

Regards
Umesh Balani
 
F

Franz Edler

To your first question:
You have to differentiate between MSN Messenger and Windows Messenger. Only
the latter supports SIP/SIMPLE.

To you second question:
If you work on a product to support multimedia-sessions and IM than I think
SIP/SIMPLE is the best choice.
If you only work on IM than Jabber might be also a good choice.

Fran

Umesh Balani said:
Hi Guys, How are you doing.
I am based in Delhi and work for a dev company. I have don't a few projects
on Virtual Conference Applications.
There are two things I wanna talk about here.

Firstly
----------

What I've heard is that MS with its new messenger is leaving its proprietary
protocol and going ahead with SIP/SIMPLE protocol.
As a matter of fact, I have even tried this Windows Messenger, setup TTCP to
listen on 5060 and connect through
Windows Messenger v4.7.2009 to connect on my server.
Here's the what TTCP dumped
Info :: [<--] points to the start of actual data received
=================================================
E:\>ttcp -r -s -p5060 -u
ttcp-r: local 0.0.0.0
ttcp-r: buflen=8192, nbuf=2048, align=16384/+0, port=5060 udp
ttcp-r: recvfrom 172.17.24.96
REGISTER sip:172.17.24.96 SIP/2.0 [<--]
Via: SIP/2.0/UDP 172.17.24.96:14946
From: <sip:[email protected]>;tag=355490f0-31b2-42e0-b761-d1ab253b1b33
To: <sip:[email protected]>
Call-ID: [email protected]
CSeq: 1 REGISTER
Contact: <sip:172.17.24.96:14946>;methods="INVITE, MESSAGE, INFO, SUBSCRIBE,
OPTIONS, BYE, CANCEL, NOT IFY, ACK"
User-Agent: Windows RTC/1.0
Expires: 1200
Event: registration
Allow-Events: presence
Content-Length: 0
=================================================
I understand that this is using SIP protocol, RFC 3261 i.e.
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3261.txt
Now what I am confused with, is when I used MSN Messenger 6 to connect to
my local machine [I modified the hosts file to point messenger.hotmail.com
host to my local IP]
The connection request is still following the old protocol.
=================================================
E:\>ttcp -r -s -p1863
ttcp-r: local 172.17.24.96 <- remote 172.17.24.96
ttcp-r: buflen=8192, nbuf=2048, align=16384/+0, port=1863 tcp VER 2 MSNP9
MSNP8 CVR0 [<--]
PNG
PNG
ttcp-r: 34 bytes in 59999 real milliseconds = 0 KB/sec
ttcp-r: 4 I/O calls, msec/call = 14999, calls/sec = 0, bytes/call = 8
=================================================
Has anyone got any ideas, why is MS not following the SIP protocol for its
Messenger 6 version.
=================================================

Secondly
----------

I am part of the team who has been assigned the responsibility to choose the
protocol for our own Messenger Product.
Yes, our product will support Audio/Video and all other Multimiedia
applications.
I request anyone who have got their hands dirty inunderstanding Messenger
protocols and aplications and especially MVP's
to tell me is SIP/SIMPLE protocol better than the Jabber based XMPP
protocol.

Any comments/answers will be highly appreciated.

Also, if this is not the right newsgroup, can someone guide me to some
newsgroups when i could get some help.

Regards
Umesh Balani
Click to expand...
 
U

Umesh Balani

Hi Franz,

Thanx for the prompt reply.

I got your point.

Tell me, have you done some R&D on these protocols.

The reason I ask is that there is not even a single RFC on SIMPLE, though
lot of drafts.

I understand that MS has created its own experimental MIME types to support
Instant Messaging and Presence over SIP.
Man, does that mean that even I will have to go about creating my own
protocol over SIP, taking whatever I can from
the drafts of SIMPLE.

Hey.. anyone else in the newsgroup who can throw some light on SIMPLE/SIP vs
XMPP/Jabber.

The Question remains the same. If I am going ahead with implementing a
application protocol, which should
have a strong support for Voice / Video communications, which one should I
be using.

Can we have some MVP's here helping me out.

Regards
Umesh Balani



Franz Edler said:
To your first question:
You have to differentiate between MSN Messenger and Windows Messenger. Only
the latter supports SIP/SIMPLE.

To you second question:
If you work on a product to support multimedia-sessions and IM than I think
SIP/SIMPLE is the best choice.
If you only work on IM than Jabber might be also a good choice.

Fran

Umesh Balani said:
Hi Guys, How are you doing.
I am based in Delhi and work for a dev company. I have don't a few projects
on Virtual Conference Applications.
There are two things I wanna talk about here.

Firstly
----------

What I've heard is that MS with its new messenger is leaving its proprietary
protocol and going ahead with SIP/SIMPLE protocol.
As a matter of fact, I have even tried this Windows Messenger, setup
Click to expand...
TTCP
to
listen on 5060 and connect through
Windows Messenger v4.7.2009 to connect on my server.
Here's the what TTCP dumped
Info :: [<--] points to the start of actual data received
=================================================
E:\>ttcp -r -s -p5060 -u
ttcp-r: local 0.0.0.0
ttcp-r: buflen=8192, nbuf=2048, align=16384/+0, port=5060 udp
ttcp-r: recvfrom 172.17.24.96
REGISTER sip:172.17.24.96 SIP/2.0 [<--]
Via: SIP/2.0/UDP 172.17.24.96:14946
From: <sip:[email protected]>;tag=355490f0-31b2-42e0-b761-d1ab253b1b33
To: <sip:[email protected]>
Call-ID: [email protected]
CSeq: 1 REGISTER
Contact: <sip:172.17.24.96:14946>;methods="INVITE, MESSAGE, INFO, SUBSCRIBE,
OPTIONS, BYE, CANCEL, NOT IFY, ACK"
User-Agent: Windows RTC/1.0
Expires: 1200
Event: registration
Allow-Events: presence
Content-Length: 0
=================================================
I understand that this is using SIP protocol, RFC 3261 i.e.
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3261.txt
Now what I am confused with, is when I used MSN Messenger 6 to connect to
my local machine [I modified the hosts file to point messenger.hotmail.com
host to my local IP]
The connection request is still following the old protocol.
=================================================
E:\>ttcp -r -s -p1863
ttcp-r: local 172.17.24.96 <- remote 172.17.24.96
ttcp-r: buflen=8192, nbuf=2048, align=16384/+0, port=1863 tcp VER 2 MSNP9
MSNP8 CVR0 [<--]
PNG
PNG
ttcp-r: 34 bytes in 59999 real milliseconds = 0 KB/sec
ttcp-r: 4 I/O calls, msec/call = 14999, calls/sec = 0, bytes/call = 8
=================================================
Has anyone got any ideas, why is MS not following the SIP protocol for its
Messenger 6 version.
=================================================

Secondly
----------

I am part of the team who has been assigned the responsibility to choose the
protocol for our own Messenger Product.
Yes, our product will support Audio/Video and all other Multimiedia
applications.
I request anyone who have got their hands dirty inunderstanding Messenger
protocols and aplications and especially MVP's
to tell me is SIP/SIMPLE protocol better than the Jabber based XMPP
protocol.

Any comments/answers will be highly appreciated.

Also, if this is not the right newsgroup, can someone guide me to some
newsgroups when i could get some help.

Regards
Umesh Balani
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
F

Franz Edler

Hello Umesh,

Yes I have followed these protocols (SIP, SIPPING and SIMPLE) almost since
the beginning. But unfortunately I could not wake up the company I have been
working for (an alternatice carrier in Austria).
What I am doing now is preparing a course for students on theses topics.

I agree there are a lot of IDs on SIMPLE, but there are also 4 RFCs in this
area:
2778 A Model for Presence and Instant Messaging

2779 Instant Messaging / Presence Protocol Requirements

3265 Session Initiation Protocol (SIP)-Specific Event Notification

3428 Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Extension for Instant Messaging


As you mentioned MS uses proprietary MIME types. You can see it from the
following trace of MS Messenger 5.0 (RTC 1.2 client):

SUBSCRIBE sip:[email protected] SIP/2.0
Via: SIP/2.0/UDP 212.152.202.21:7286
Max-Forwards: 70
From: "(e-mail address removed)"
<sip:[email protected]>;tag=eaab7106db404d088edd30f03b8306bb;epid=5aba32
109a
To: <sip:[email protected]>
Call-ID: [email protected]
CSeq: 1 SUBSCRIBE
Contact: <sip:212.152.202.21:7286>
User-Agent: RTC/1.2
Event: presence
Accept: application/xpidf+xml, text/xml+msrtc.pidf
Supported: com.microsoft.autoextend
Content-Length: 0

Franz

Umesh Balani said:
Hi Franz,

Thanx for the prompt reply.

I got your point.

Tell me, have you done some R&D on these protocols.

The reason I ask is that there is not even a single RFC on SIMPLE, though
lot of drafts.

I understand that MS has created its own experimental MIME types to support
Instant Messaging and Presence over SIP.
Man, does that mean that even I will have to go about creating my own
protocol over SIP, taking whatever I can from
the drafts of SIMPLE.

Hey.. anyone else in the newsgroup who can throw some light on SIMPLE/SIP vs
XMPP/Jabber.

The Question remains the same. If I am going ahead with implementing a
application protocol, which should
have a strong support for Voice / Video communications, which one should I
be using.

Can we have some MVP's here helping me out.

Regards
Umesh Balani



Franz Edler said:
To your first question:
You have to differentiate between MSN Messenger and Windows Messenger. Only
the latter supports SIP/SIMPLE.

To you second question:
If you work on a product to support multimedia-sessions and IM than I think
SIP/SIMPLE is the best choice.
If you only work on IM than Jabber might be also a good choice.

Fran

Umesh Balani said:
Hi Guys, How are you doing.
I am based in Delhi and work for a dev company. I have don't a few projects
on Virtual Conference Applications.
There are two things I wanna talk about here.

Firstly
----------

What I've heard is that MS with its new messenger is leaving its proprietary
protocol and going ahead with SIP/SIMPLE protocol.
As a matter of fact, I have even tried this Windows Messenger, setup
Click to expand...
TTCP
to
listen on 5060 and connect through
Windows Messenger v4.7.2009 to connect on my server.
Here's the what TTCP dumped
Info :: [<--] points to the start of actual data received
=================================================
E:\>ttcp -r -s -p5060 -u
ttcp-r: local 0.0.0.0
ttcp-r: buflen=8192, nbuf=2048, align=16384/+0, port=5060 udp
ttcp-r: recvfrom 172.17.24.96
REGISTER sip:172.17.24.96 SIP/2.0 [<--]
Via: SIP/2.0/UDP 172.17.24.96:14946
From:
Click to expand...
To: <sip:[email protected]>
Call-ID: [email protected]
CSeq: 1 REGISTER
Contact: <sip:172.17.24.96:14946>;methods="INVITE, MESSAGE, INFO, SUBSCRIBE,
OPTIONS, BYE, CANCEL, NOT IFY, ACK"
User-Agent: Windows RTC/1.0
Expires: 1200
Event: registration
Allow-Events: presence
Content-Length: 0
=================================================
I understand that this is using SIP protocol, RFC 3261 i.e.
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3261.txt
Now what I am confused with, is when I used MSN Messenger 6 to connect to
my local machine [I modified the hosts file to point messenger.hotmail.com
host to my local IP]
The connection request is still following the old protocol.
=================================================
E:\>ttcp -r -s -p1863
ttcp-r: local 172.17.24.96 <- remote 172.17.24.96
ttcp-r: buflen=8192, nbuf=2048, align=16384/+0, port=1863 tcp VER 2 MSNP9
MSNP8 CVR0 [<--]
PNG
PNG
ttcp-r: 34 bytes in 59999 real milliseconds = 0 KB/sec
ttcp-r: 4 I/O calls, msec/call = 14999, calls/sec = 0, bytes/call = 8
=================================================
Has anyone got any ideas, why is MS not following the SIP protocol for its
Messenger 6 version.
=================================================

Secondly
Click to expand...
choose
the
protocol for our own Messenger Product.
Yes, our product will support Audio/Video and all other Multimiedia
applications.
I request anyone who have got their hands dirty inunderstanding Messenger
protocols and aplications and especially MVP's
to tell me is SIP/SIMPLE protocol better than the Jabber based XMPP
protocol.

Any comments/answers will be highly appreciated.

Also, if this is not the right newsgroup, can someone guide me to some
newsgroups when i could get some help.

Regards
Umesh Balani
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Similar Threads

Outlook connector crashes outlook 0
Outlook crashes with Outlook connector 2002 0

Top