Setting up student logons in a small peer network

[Teri Welch]

Hello,

We have a small classroom computer lab with 4 PCs running Windows XP Pro. We
have a wireless peer network -- no domain -- with shared internet access.
There are currently have 30-40 users but that number may grow. The number of
PCs may also grow.

With minimal configuration and maitenance, we would like to create an
environement where a student can access their person folders from *any* PC
they sit down at. We assume this would be based on individual logon ids and
perhaps a startup script to map folders. We are not concerned about heavy
security as much as flexibility in getting to their individual work from any
PC. However we want to be able to add a new user without having to setup a
profile on each pc. The onsite staff is not technical and this would be
cumbersome. Ideally, it would be nice to retain some individual settings
too -- internet favorites, desktop layout, etc.

Can someone suggest a simple approach to do some of this.

Thanks,
Teri

 

[Rube]

Unfortunately, you can't get the desired result with a peer-2-peer network
of Windows PC's. In the absence of a domain, there is no consolidated
location for user information. A login will be specific to each computer.

Microsoft small business server is pretty easy to maintain these days
though. . . but it still costs $$$.

 

[Teri Welch]

Thanks for the reply. What is the simplest configuration we can get away
with to implement a domain. For example, can we just run Windows 2000
workstation on one of the pcs and then have our domain, and thus gloabl
logons?
Do we need to implement this active directory I hear about?

Teri

 

[Guest]

If you are going to set up a Windows Server System, then the server must be
able to manage the maximum number of simultaneous users.

W2K workstation can support 5 connections only.

Contact Microsoft and ask them what Server Product and Price structure is
available to your Institution.

The price for Windows 2003 can be cheaper than you think, and the benefits
to you inmanagement and setup are huge.

To create a new user is as simple as 'copying' the profile for an existing
user and changing the name and password. Takes seconds.

 

[Rube]

You will need a "Server" version of Windows. Preferably Windows 2000 or 2003
(NT4 is still usable but MS won't support it for much longer and you can't
buy it [legally]). Windows 2000 Pro cannot be a domain controller, only a
member. :-(

It costs about $700* for the software which includes 5 client access
licenses. (you will need 1 license for each user who will connect, or for a
classroom setup, 1 license for each computer)
*Educational facilities can usually get pretty hefty discounts though.

Windows 2003 Server is the current "server" version of Windows. It has a
great wizard that will walk you through setting up a simple domain. Get a
Windows 2003 Server for Dummies book and your good to go. Your best bet is
to hire a consultant to set it up for you if you are not techie at all.
There are administrative tasks involved, but nothing an intelligent
computer-savvy person couldn't handle. Plus, you found these forums. . .

The simplest config you can use is a single PC with Win 2003 Server
installed. It handles your active directory domain as well as file & printer
sharing. Even the cheapest Dell PowerEdge $400 specials will run no problem.
With the cost of the Server & windows + licenses, your probably looking at
about $2000 retail. (I haven't priced it out in a few months so your mileage
may vary.)

 

[Teri Welch]

Thanks very much for the replies.

1. If we use Windows server, then a student's desktop settings, favorites,
etc will "follow" them from pc to pc?

2. Can the Windows Server machine be non-dedicated so it can be used as one
of the available workstations to log into.

3. Since security is not the main focus here -- rather flexibility,
centralized storage, etc -- one idea we were tossing around was to keep the
peer network and XP Pro machines and use a common login at every pc.
However, we thought we could intercept the user immediately after initial
logon and present a prompt screen to enter their user id (which would be
different for each student). We thought perhaps an Access VBA screen or
something. Then the user would enter their username which would be used to
map drives to personal folders on a "server" machine (just one of the pcs
running XP Pro) and applications would be defined to use that drive letter.
A few questions...

Does anyone have any experience with using such an approach, or a variation
of it, to avoid introducing a server into the picture.

Would there be a place in XP where we can tell the system to present our
user-defined prompt screen after login and block the user from continuing
until they enter the necesary information?

If option #3 has hope, can we use this approach not only redirect folders,
but also somehow preserve some "settings" like for Internet explorer by
storing some information in a central location and retreiving it whenever
the log on.

Thanks
Teri

You will need a "Server" version of Windows. Preferably Windows 2000 or 2003
(NT4 is still usable but MS won't support it for much longer and you can't
buy it [legally]). Windows 2000 Pro cannot be a domain controller, only a
member. :-(

It costs about $700* for the software which includes 5 client access
licenses. (you will need 1 license for each user who will connect, or for a
classroom setup, 1 license for each computer)
*Educational facilities can usually get pretty hefty discounts though.

Windows 2003 Server is the current "server" version of Windows. It has a
great wizard that will walk you through setting up a simple domain. Get a
Windows 2003 Server for Dummies book and your good to go. Your best bet is
to hire a consultant to set it up for you if you are not techie at all.
There are administrative tasks involved, but nothing an intelligent
computer-savvy person couldn't handle. Plus, you found these forums. . .

The simplest config you can use is a single PC with Win 2003 Server
installed. It handles your active directory domain as well as file & printer
sharing. Even the cheapest Dell PowerEdge $400 specials will run no problem.
With the cost of the Server & windows + licenses, your probably looking at
about $2000 retail. (I haven't priced it out in a few months so your mileage
may vary.)

Thanks for the reply. What is the simplest configuration we can get away
with to implement a domain. For example, can we just run Windows 2000
workstation on one of the pcs and then have our domain, and thus gloabl
logons?
Do we need to implement this active directory I hear about?

Teri


*any* setup

 

[Malke]

Teri Welch wrote:

Hi, Teri. See my comments inline.

Thanks very much for the replies.

1. If we use Windows server, then a student's desktop settings,
favorites, etc will "follow" them from pc to pc?

Yes, you can set up roaming profiles. However, in a computer lab this is
not the desired thing nor is it necessary in that environment. In our
school's computer lab (we've got only about 40 machines), we have one
configuration for students on all machines. The student's folder is
located on the server. All data is saved on the server. You don't want
any data saved locally on the workstations.

2. Can the Windows Server machine be non-dedicated so it can be used
as one of the available workstations to log into.

It *could*, but that would be Wrong. It is a really really bad practice
to use the server for anything but serving. Really bad. Don't do it.

3. Since security is not the main focus here -- rather flexibility,
centralized storage, etc -- one idea we were tossing around was to
keep the peer network and XP Pro machines and use a common login at
every pc. However, we thought we could intercept the user immediately
after initial logon and present a prompt screen to enter their user id
(which would be different for each student). We thought perhaps an
Access VBA screen or something. Then the user would enter their
username which would be used to map drives to personal folders on a
"server" machine (just one of the pcs running XP Pro) and applications
would be defined to use that drive letter. A few questions...

You are making this far more complicated than it needs to be. See a
simple suggested setup further down in the post.

Does anyone have any experience with using such an approach, or a
variation of it, to avoid introducing a server into the picture.

No. You need a server. There is no reason to be afraid. Win2k3 is very
easy to set up and very easy to administer when you are just doing
something as simple as what you need. There is also no reason to set
this up wrong. Do it the right way.

Would there be a place in XP where we can tell the system to present
our user-defined prompt screen after login and block the user from
continuing until they enter the necesary information?

Of course - because students are logging into a domain, they must press
Ctrl-Alt-Del, enter their name and password. See below for details.OK, here is a brief overview of a setup which may work for you. You
didn't say what age-group your students are - adults, children, etc. -
and that makes a difference. Our school is K-8. This means that we keep
a very tight control over what the users on the workstations can do,
and we have the ability to return each workstation to its pristine
state very quickly. It is a real mistake to underestimate what users
will do to your workstations and network if you let them. It may or may
not be malicious, but it only takes one person accepting and running a
file from an IM client to infect and trash your whole network.

1 server running Win2k3 Standard (check for educational discount), but
you can get a Dell basic server with the OS installed for way less than
you think.

Workstations running XP Pro (you must have Pro in case you want to have
a domain). Domains give you a lot of advantages - central
administration, ease of pushing out patches, security, etc.

Now, in your situation you don't need to set up a domain if you don't
want to. For 4 workstations it might be overkill. But if you really are
going to have more than 10, you should.

Either way:

1. Create users on the server.
2. Create individual user folders in a Data partition or on a second
hard drive (preferable) on the server.
3. On the workstations, make a generic student user account and logon.
4. Map a drive or make a shortcut to Server\\Data on the desktop.
5. Teach the students how to find their folders on the server and save
stuff to them.

From your posts, it seems to me that you are trying to start a school
computer lab and you don't have a technology coordinator (IT person) on
staff. It sounds like the job has been dropped into your lap and you're
not really qualified. I'm not saying this to hurt your feelings. If
this is close to the mark, you should consider either hiring someone
who knows this stuff or getting a local professional to come in and set
you up properly. It will take far less time than you trying to learn
systems administration overnight.

In any case, I wish you luck. If you need more help, please don't
hesitate to post back. You may want to examine posts in one of the
server newsgroups, though. Here's a good one:

microsoft.public.windows.server.general

Malke