Sempron vs P4

M

Mac Cool

I built a computer for a neighbor a while back, but he had some rocky
times and ended up having to move; so I got stuck with the computer. It's
a basic system built on a Sempron 3000+ AM2 & ECS Geforce 6100S MB.

I have a four year old machine, P4 2.53 Ghz Dell system and I'm really
ready for a new machine. How does the Sempron 3000+ compare powerwise to
the 2.53Ghz P4? Debating whether I should keep the Sempron and use it. I
could always upgrade the processor down the road.
 
P

Paul

Mac said:
I built a computer for a neighbor a while back, but he had some rocky
times and ended up having to move; so I got stuck with the computer. It's
a basic system built on a Sempron 3000+ AM2 & ECS Geforce 6100S MB.

I have a four year old machine, P4 2.53 Ghz Dell system and I'm really
ready for a new machine. How does the Sempron 3000+ compare powerwise to
the 2.53Ghz P4? Debating whether I should keep the Sempron and use it. I
could always upgrade the processor down the road.

The Sempron P.R. rating is compared to a Celeron.
The Athlon P.R. rating is compare to Pentium.

So the Sempron is a little less than its "3000" rating suggests,
when compared to your P4 2.54GHz.

If you want to use the Sempron board, first check that the motherboard
does support more powerful processors. A Athlon64 X2 dual core at 3GHz,
will be more of a perceptible upgrade compared to your P4 2.53GHz.

There are a couple different models of the ECS with similar
sounding names, so you may want to check that this is the
right one. It appears to support the more powerful processors.

http://www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWebSite/Support/CPU_Support_Model.aspx?detailid=685&MenuID=69&LanID=9

It is interesting, that ECS lists the 6000+ in 89W and 125W versions.
I thought it only came in the 125W flavor. The reason I
am suggesting the 6000+, is it comes with a CPU cooler in
the box. The 6400+ is a "black box" version, AFAIK, and it
doesn't come with a CPU cooler included. Getting the cooler
included, shaves a bit off the upgrade cost.

This one on Newegg is the 125W version ADX6000CZBOX. There is
also an OEM (no cooler) version ADX6000IAA6CZ and it is 125W also.
It doesn't look like they carry any 89W version yet. Maybe it
isn't even shipping.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103773

I cannot find the 89W version of the 6000+ on www.amdcompare.com
desktop section, so maybe it is another one of those "unobtanium"
type processors that AMD likes to make. Maybe they gave advanced
warning to the motherboard companies, and the real release of
the processor is at some future date.

It'll only draw 125W, when both cores are flat out. With the
Cool N' Quiet feature, the dissipation drops a lot when the
desktop is idle.

Paul
 
M

Mac Cool

Paul:
So the Sempron is a little less than its "3000" rating suggests,
when compared to your P4 2.54GHz.

If you want to use the Sempron board, first check that the motherboard
does support more powerful processors. A Athlon64 X2 dual core at 3GHz,
will be more of a perceptible upgrade compared to your P4 2.53GHz.

Hmmm, I was hoping I could get by with a more modest X2 4000+ upgrade and
still see a significant improvement over my P4. If I were building a
system from scratch for myself I would have gone with a little higher end
components but I seem to be stuck with this one. Not a bad system, I know
some people don't like the ECS boards but I don't overclock or game so my
needs are modest.
 
P

Paul

Mac said:
Paul:


Hmmm, I was hoping I could get by with a more modest X2 4000+ upgrade and
still see a significant improvement over my P4. If I were building a
system from scratch for myself I would have gone with a little higher end
components but I seem to be stuck with this one. Not a bad system, I know
some people don't like the ECS boards but I don't overclock or game so my
needs are modest.

It really depends on your definition of what is an upgrade.
My old rule of thumb, was to avoid spending money, until the
new hardware would be twice as fast.

Remember that, in the worst case, one of the two cores on the
dual core can be idle. Instead of trusting the 4000+ rating,
which is if both cores are contributing, you should take the
clock rate and single core performance, as a guide.

For example, here is an X2 4000+, two cores at 2.1GHz, 2x512KB cache.

http://products.amd.com/en-us/DesktopCPUDetail.aspx?id=60

If I then select a single core processor, running at 2.1Ghz, with
a single 512KB cache, I get somewhere between a 3200+ to a 3500+
rating. That would be a better estimate, for comparison against
the P4, for all the software cases where the second core is
not helping. Thus, your upgrade, is 3300/2530 = 1.30x in
pathological software situations.

http://products.amd.com/en-us/DesktopCPUDetail.aspx?id=113

If you go with a 6000+, using some rough rules, 3000 x 1.5 = 4500
(1.5 representing the higher IPC on Athlon64 versus P4),
and 4500/2530 = 1.78x comparing single core operation. Now,
that is closer to double, which would justify spending money
on it. (To prevent "sidegrades", I aim for a doubling, but I
haven't always managed to achieve that. I went from a P4 1.8
to a P4 2.8 for example. I seldom buy the most expensive option.
The difference now, is the price war makes moving upscale,
that much easier. The price war will not last, and the Inquirer
mentioned the war may be over.)

The other option, is to go with a 5000+ "black box", with
unlocked multiplier. Some of those give amazing overclocks
for the money. To get some benefit from this type of
processor, check the BIOS to see if there is a multiplier
setting. Or use a tool like RMClock in Windows, to
crank it to 3GHz. You don't need an unlocked multiplier to
overclock, if you have access to a setting for the processor
clock (>200Mhz). The unlocked multiplier helps in cases where
a multiplier option is all you have to work with. And some of
the tools that change the multiplier while in Windows, can
also be used, even if the BIOS is not cooperating. If a board
supports Cool N' Quiet, the hardware has to support multiplier
changes and programmable VID as well, so Vcore can also be
adjusted in software, even if the BIOS lacks an option.
You could even buy one of these processors, and save the overclocking
options for a "rainy day". (I used to do that - for example,
I only overclocked my Celeron 300 to 450, near the end of its
days. Even though that overclock was a slam-dunk - just a single
dip switch change to make it work.)

AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ Brisbane 2.6GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 65W Black Edition
(Unlocked multiplier. No cooler! Buy the cooler separately.) $130

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16819103194

Paul
 
M

Mac Cool

Paul:
My old rule of thumb, was to avoid spending money, until the
new hardware would be twice as fast.

Thanks, I have always used the same rule...
33Mhz -> 66 -> 120 -> 333 -> 700 -> 1.4 -> 2.53
but I've been out of touch with computers these last few years and wasn't
sure how the new processors compared. I saved your post and will consider
my options. I tried just selling the damn thing for cost but even at that,
no one wants it, probably because of the Sempron processor.
 
P

ProfGene

Paul said:
The Sempron P.R. rating is compared to a Celeron.
The Athlon P.R. rating is compare to Pentium.

So the Sempron is a little less than its "3000" rating suggests,
when compared to your P4 2.54GHz.

If you want to use the Sempron board, first check that the motherboard
does support more powerful processors. A Athlon64 X2 dual core at 3GHz,
will be more of a perceptible upgrade compared to your P4 2.53GHz.

There are a couple different models of the ECS with similar
sounding names, so you may want to check that this is the
right one. It appears to support the more powerful processors.

http://www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWebSite/Support/CPU_Support_Model.aspx?detailid=685&MenuID=69&LanID=9


It is interesting, that ECS lists the 6000+ in 89W and 125W versions.
I thought it only came in the 125W flavor. The reason I
am suggesting the 6000+, is it comes with a CPU cooler in
the box. The 6400+ is a "black box" version, AFAIK, and it
doesn't come with a CPU cooler included. Getting the cooler
included, shaves a bit off the upgrade cost.

This one on Newegg is the 125W version ADX6000CZBOX. There is
also an OEM (no cooler) version ADX6000IAA6CZ and it is 125W also.
It doesn't look like they carry any 89W version yet. Maybe it
isn't even shipping.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103773

I cannot find the 89W version of the 6000+ on www.amdcompare.com
desktop section, so maybe it is another one of those "unobtanium"
type processors that AMD likes to make. Maybe they gave advanced
warning to the motherboard companies, and the real release of
the processor is at some future date.

It'll only draw 125W, when both cores are flat out. With the
Cool N' Quiet feature, the dissipation drops a lot when the
desktop is idle.

Paul

In most cases upgrading the processor means a new motherboard too
because you will usually get the maximum speed processor for whatever
motherboard you are using. In general what you are using is OK for email
the Internet and using ordinary programs that are not too demanding of
resources but for anything high powered it is already out of date.
 

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