Sell Program - Screwed by Managers !!!

[Guest]

I have spent roughly 200 hours exclusively of my personal time writing an
extensive lab management program for my employer. This was done out of the
goodness of my heart and with the intense desire to end the agony of our
dysfunctional ways. In spite of receiving tacit approval at one point and
having the support of colleagues, management is now completely and
deliberately ignoring it.

Questions:
1. To cut my losses, is there a practical way to sell the program?
2. Are there concerns about ownership even if it was written 100% by me
on my own time but was tailored to the company's needs, was tested at our
office on our network and received a cursory review by one manager?
3. Would it return a decent price – i.e. would it likely be worth the
effort?
4. What about piracy concerns?
5. Additional words of wisdom much apprecitated !!!

Greg

 

[Guest]

Greg, are you sure you have not simply got a solution that is looking for a
problem to solve?

Sounds harsh, doesn't it? Unfortunately, life can be and usually is!

If you have you observed road works (in the UK) closely, you would not have
failed to notice that there are usually 3/4 people watching whilst 1/2 is
actually doing something. This communal activity goes by the name of 'team'
work or 'project' management! You seem to have denied the bystanders their
due by simply doing it; and now they do not want to know.

Where does this leave you? You have an application that has your
thinking/understanding embedded in it (unmodified by other points of view),
it is untested (you said managers don't want to know) and you have no way of
gauging its usability. Undoubtedly, you have neither a functional not user
specification. I would say, you have simply got a prototype.

To find out what you have got, one option is release the application into
the public domain without warranty: the objective is to quantify the takeup
rate and to assess the feedback you get in order to determine its commercial
viability.

Another option is to sell it as is. However, this is costly in that
marketing costs money and you would need to provide help desk type support
and possibly training also. You will also need to investigate and fix bugs
and manage future releases. All of this needs to happen whilst you are at
work. How will you manage?

So far, you have proved that you can analyse a problem and produce a package
solutiion; in the process, you have no doubt learnt a lot. I assume that you
use Excel daily as part of your work.

Unless you are of a brave disposition, I would suggest that you stop pushing
the application in the workplace. With a bit of luck, if the need for the
applicatioin is sufficient, the dynamics of the workplace will come looking
for it and when (if) this happens, have a strategy that yields some personal
dividends for you.

Good luck.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for your reply.

Your assessment as to the sales viability was what I had expected but I was
hoping I was wrong. It is too industry specific and even company specific.

I am confident that I have not developed a solution that is in search of a
problem. We are very uncompetitive and getting worse. We are, and have been
for a long-time, loosing money. We are constantly (and unnecessarily) plagued
with difficulty accessing information in particular and are constantly
resolving the same problems and wallowing in the same confusion. Our
operation is IMO obviously illogical in many ways and is sometimes
reprehensible (e.g. using scrap paper in place of worksheets).

If I were to agonizingly list all our inefficiencies and if we were to
jointly spend an hour discussing strategies to resolve them in terms of a
single programmatic package, I think we would come up with something very
similar to what I have created. I have answered many posts of my own and know
that programmers tend to think alike. I passionately believe that a network
based Lab Information Management System (LIMS) is the right approach for us.
So this development has been a crushing blow to me, and one that will likely
put an end to many years of employment with this firm.

I long ago learned that I had to take the bull by the horns and resolve
practical problems and produce the innovations by myself. In a nutshell, I
came to the conclusion that management was unable or unwilling to comprehend
the problem and/or produce the solution to the lab information management
issue; and so in my typical fashion, I took on the task of developing the
requisite innovation. However, in this case I believe I have transgressed and
must be taught a lesson. In short, I believe we have a serious management
problem.

I am a long-term employee but have finally decided that I will likely join
another firm in a few months. They have their act together and don’t need the
program. Therefore, it is likely headed for the trashcan. That’s why I posted.

BTW, the above is hot on the heals of a similar situation where I developed
a photo-mapping survey technique inclusive of about 100 hours of my personal
time programming and about the same with the mechanics. Management’s input
was to offer absolutely nothing but moronic suggestions and, with brilliant
timing, to raise our rates so that we lost the contract. It got mothballed.
My likely next employer is quite interested in its resurrection.

Sorry for the long-winded diatribe but I needed to get it off my chest. Good
luck to you too.

Best regards,
Greg

 

[Grumpy Aero Guy]

IF you developed ANY of tyhis app on your employers dime, it's THEIR
intellectual property.

IF they don't care now, they will when you start making money on it....

 

[Norman Jones]

Hi Grumpy,

IF you developed ANY of tyhis app on your employers dime, it's THEIR
intellectual property.

I read Greg's choice of the word 'exclusively' as intentional and of
significant: relevance:

 

[Don Guillett]

Sounds like you are venting. Feel better now?
The program belongs to your employer unless they release it to you. or, they
are too dumb to know you have it.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for your input Don. I admit I was likely venting more than anything.

2. Are there concerns about ownership even if it was written 100% by me
on my own time but was tailored to the company's needs, was tested at our
office on our network and received a cursory review by one manager?

Are you saying that they own it in spite of the fact they have made
negligible contribution and have demonstated complete disinterest and didn't
even request or suggest that it be created?

If they still own it, if I sent an email to management requesting their
opinion, which I fully expect will be disdainfully rebuffed, would that
demonstrate abandonment by them and give me a case?

The program belongs to your employer unless they release it to you. or, they
are too dumb to know you have it.

They are definately cognizant that I have it but I think the symbolic
meaning as their response to my position is of more value to them (i.e. the
idea is garbage). This motivated by the implication that I don't think
they're competant and disagree with the current paper-based system (which is
their creation). It was given tacit approval in the beginning and they were
aware I was writing it, but I think they woke up once it appeared.

Greg

 

[SteveM]

I know that you have invested a lot of time and emotional energy with
your product. But in the end - it's just business. If you really
think the product has more generic value, you should formalize a moving
forward strategy. That means a consult with a patent attorney to
establish what your intellectual property rights are. If the company
owns the rights but has no interest in the product, you'd have to
arrange a transfer of rights to you. That could cost money. Again, it
may not be fair - it's business.

When you figure out where you stand on the ownership side, you may want
to shop your product around, perhaps to companies that make/distribute
lab related software, because you'll probably need a channel partner.
So have them license/resell the product for you. You may also need
some development support to truly commercialize your product, i.e.,
generalize the product for other customers. The internet or your
attorney could point you to some funding sources.

In the end, if your product is truely a one-off product that is highly
tailored to your company then walk away and don't look back.

Good Luck,

SteveM

 

[Peter T]

Hi Greg,

In order of your questions -

1. All you need for starters is a simple site with a facility to download
your file and some method of receiving payment, eg Paypal. How much
additional effort you put in to the site and to attract interest would be up
to you.

2. As I understand there can be issues of ownership if the IP in some way
relates to your primary job even if developed in your own time. Problem
arises because some aspects may relate to knowledge learnt at work. It's
grey area of newly evolving law in UK/Europe (not sure about elsewhere).
Some universities in the UK now have pre-determined systems in place of
sharing IP ownership between author (employee) and employer regardless as to
where or in whose time the IP was developed.

I've no idea about your circumstances, if in doubt perhaps try and get a
disclaimer of title from your employer. If they refuse demand overtime for
your 200hrs! My guess is there won't be an issue.

3 Would it return a decent price - You are probably the best judge of that,
also relates to 1. above.

4 Piracy concerns:
As I'm sure you know vba security is minimal. To my mind piracy only
represents a loss if it means you lose a sale you would otherwise have made,
or someone uses your code to make a similar product and sells that, which
amounts to the same thing. With different types of product devaluation of
brand image is a concern but I doubt relevant here.

Perhaps put it in a VB6 dll with xla wrapper or a Com dll. If you've never
done that before will take a while.

5 Without knowing more about your app & market not sure what else to add.
But as already suggested in your first response try and get as many to beta
test (why not ask for volunteers here). Initially I think best to know true
identity and after obtaining a simple NDA. Later perhaps announce the first
release as beta on your site, free to those willing to give feedback.

Good luck,
Peter T

 

[Guest]

Thanks to all who have responded. In view of its highly specialized nature I
believe the potential client base is too limited - perhaps 200 or so in all
of North America. And only a very small percentage of these or none would
realistically take an interest. So I can't see it being worth the cost,
effort and risks.

By some political means, I may precipitate a serious review by other
manager(s) which may lead somewhere. But probably I will allow it to be
forgotten and will then take it with me in case it can be revamped to suit my
next employer's needs.

My post should serve as a warning to all that office politics and culture
will often prevail over logic. Management should first demonstrate a strong
motivation to change (not just the tacit agreement I received). What I regard
as a massively magnanimous act on my part was treated just about as shoddily
as possible. And yes I am still venting. Appologies.

Best regards to all,
Greg

 

[Don Guillett]

Life is too short not to do what makes you happy. I guess that's why, since
I left the Air Force as an officer, I have ONLY worked for me.

 

[SteveM]

Greg,

One last thing. You believe that your product would add significant
value inside of your operational environment. But you think that your
management team does not share your assessment. So the real value in
the marketplace is still unknown. Peter T. made the recommendation for
Beta testing the product. He's right, but I'd focus especially on
the value proposition perceived by the target market (the testers.) If
the feedback tracks with your assessment, then think about what that
means in a niche market. How much do you think the product is worth in
terms of productivity enhancements at your own enterprise?

Look at it this way. The perpetual license as a software pricing model
has proven to be an economic dead end. So boutique software developers
have evolved a pricing model that delivers recurrent revenue. And
that's through annual licensing. So say your product's value
really is a no-brainer. And 25% of those 200 potential customers could
really use the product. So you price it at $2,000 with an annual
licensing fee of $1,000. Which is chump change in the grand scheme of
things. So at 50 customers, that's $100K in upfront licensing. And
then $50K per year in perpetuity for occasional upgrades. That's not
a bad ROI for 200 hours of development work. And the market size is so
small, there is little risk that a competitor will hop into the mix.

If I truly believed in a product I developed like you do, I'd think
about how to harvest some value if the level of effort to do that makes
sense.

SteveM

 

[Guest]

Steve,

One last thing. You believe that your product would add significant
value inside of your operational environment. But you think that your
management team does not share your assessment.

Of the two managers that run my life, one hasn't even had a look at it but
has likely rejected it out of hand because I wrote it and it's contrary to
his vision. The other is so burnt out by the former and another collegue
that, as I write this, there is an add in the paper for his replacement at
his insistance.

The burnt out manager is the one who gave it a cursory review. He no longer
gives a damn about the lab and wants to take the path of least resistance.
And not having to learn anything new or change his routine is precisely that.
And I suspect that subconsciously it also poses a threat because it would
usurp the power they gain from having control of the process. So I don't
believe the program has been assessed in a meaningful way.

I do indeed believe that "the product would add significant value inside of
[our] operational environment". Not so much because it is such a good product
but because we are so dysfunctional and it is tailored to our needs. And I
did offer to evolve and improve it.

I think that you are likely out by a factor of 10 as to the percentage of
the potential customers that might use the product. Mine is a civil
engineering lab and these are almost always divisions of larger engineering
firms whose managers pull the strings and are very much resistant to change.
And I think few would be as badly off as us.

I have not entirely given up at this point. I believe that an interested and
objective managerial mind willing to dispence with the prevailing
bureaucratic vision and look directly at the reality would see its merit.
(Was that an oxymoron?)

Greg

 

[SteveM]

Greg,

OK. First of all, forget about those guys you work for. They are not
players in what you are trying to do. Question (rhetorical sort of),
is your operating environment common to others in the same domain? If
yes, could they encounter the same operational problems? If perhaps,
you have to validate that. If yes, then you have a market outside of
your current organization. And about how good the product is, the only
question is the marginal value to your target customer. If they are
dropping millions per year in management overhead to run the lab and
your product reduces that burden even one half of one percent, the cost
recovery really is a no-brainer.

If the the real problem is organizational dysfunction, take my word for
it, software never fixes that.

SteveM

P.S. Remember, you have to detach yourself emotionally. In the end
it's just business...

Steve,

One last thing. You believe that your product would add significant
value inside of your operational environment. But you think that your
management team does not share your assessment.

Of the two managers that run my life, one hasn't even had a look at it but
has likely rejected it out of hand because I wrote it and it's contrary to
his vision. The other is so burnt out by the former and another collegue
that, as I write this, there is an add in the paper for his replacement at
his insistance.

The burnt out manager is the one who gave it a cursory review. He no longer
gives a damn about the lab and wants to take the path of least resistance.
And not having to learn anything new or change his routine is precisely that.
And I suspect that subconsciously it also poses a threat because it would
usurp the power they gain from having control of the process. So I don't
believe the program has been assessed in a meaningful way.

I do indeed believe that "the product would add significant value inside of
[our] operational environment". Not so much because it is such a good product
but because we are so dysfunctional and it is tailored to our needs. And I
did offer to evolve and improve it.

I think that you are likely out by a factor of 10 as to the percentage of
the potential customers that might use the product. Mine is a civil
engineering lab and these are almost always divisions of larger engineering
firms whose managers pull the strings and are very much resistant to change.
And I think few would be as badly off as us.

I have not entirely given up at this point. I believe that an interested and
objective managerial mind willing to dispence with the prevailing
bureaucratic vision and look directly at the reality would see its merit.
(Was that an oxymoron?)

Greg

Greg,

One last thing. You believe that your product would add significant
value inside of your operational environment. But you think that your
management team does not share your assessment. So the real value in
the marketplace is still unknown. Peter T. made the recommendation for
Beta testing the product. He's right, but I'd focus especially on
the value proposition perceived by the target market (the testers.) If
the feedback tracks with your assessment, then think about what that
means in a niche market. How much do you think the product is worth in
terms of productivity enhancements at your own enterprise?

Look at it this way. The perpetual license as a software pricing model
has proven to be an economic dead end. So boutique software developers
have evolved a pricing model that delivers recurrent revenue. And
that's through annual licensing. So say your product's value
really is a no-brainer. And 25% of those 200 potential customers could
really use the product. So you price it at $2,000 with an annual
licensing fee of $1,000. Which is chump change in the grand scheme of
things. So at 50 customers, that's $100K in upfront licensing. And
then $50K per year in perpetuity for occasional upgrades. That's not
a bad ROI for 200 hours of development work. And the market size is so
small, there is little risk that a competitor will hop into the mix.

If I truly believed in a product I developed like you do, I'd think
about how to harvest some value if the level of effort to do that makes
sense.

SteveM

 

[Guest]

Thanks again Steve. I'll cool down in time (detach emotionally). It may still
goahead as I mentioned if I circumvent the aforementioned mgrs. (The second
one will be replaced soon anyway). However, if not, in time I think I may
smooth it out and adapt it to a more general lab scenario. If I eventually
beta test it, it won't knock anyone's socks off. But in the right environment
and if supplanting a paper-based system, I think the approach can be of huge
benefit.

Greg

Greg,

OK. First of all, forget about those guys you work for. They are not
players in what you are trying to do. Question (rhetorical sort of),
is your operating environment common to others in the same domain? If
yes, could they encounter the same operational problems? If perhaps,
you have to validate that. If yes, then you have a market outside of
your current organization. And about how good the product is, the only
question is the marginal value to your target customer. If they are
dropping millions per year in management overhead to run the lab and
your product reduces that burden even one half of one percent, the cost
recovery really is a no-brainer.

If the the real problem is organizational dysfunction, take my word for
it, software never fixes that.

SteveM

P.S. Remember, you have to detach yourself emotionally. In the end
it's just business...

Steve,

One last thing. You believe that your product would add significant
value inside of your operational environment. But you think that your
management team does not share your assessment.

Of the two managers that run my life, one hasn't even had a look at it but
has likely rejected it out of hand because I wrote it and it's contrary to
his vision. The other is so burnt out by the former and another collegue
that, as I write this, there is an add in the paper for his replacement at
his insistance.

The burnt out manager is the one who gave it a cursory review. He no longer
gives a damn about the lab and wants to take the path of least resistance.
And not having to learn anything new or change his routine is precisely that.
And I suspect that subconsciously it also poses a threat because it would
usurp the power they gain from having control of the process. So I don't
believe the program has been assessed in a meaningful way.

I do indeed believe that "the product would add significant value inside of
[our] operational environment". Not so much because it is such a good product
but because we are so dysfunctional and it is tailored to our needs. And I
did offer to evolve and improve it.

I think that you are likely out by a factor of 10 as to the percentage of
the potential customers that might use the product. Mine is a civil
engineering lab and these are almost always divisions of larger engineering
firms whose managers pull the strings and are very much resistant to change.
And I think few would be as badly off as us.

I have not entirely given up at this point. I believe that an interested and
objective managerial mind willing to dispence with the prevailing
bureaucratic vision and look directly at the reality would see its merit.
(Was that an oxymoron?)

Greg

Greg,

One last thing. You believe that your product would add significant
value inside of your operational environment. But you think that your
management team does not share your assessment. So the real value in
the marketplace is still unknown. Peter T. made the recommendation for
Beta testing the product. He's right, but I'd focus especially on
the value proposition perceived by the target market (the testers.) If
the feedback tracks with your assessment, then think about what that
means in a niche market. How much do you think the product is worth in
terms of productivity enhancements at your own enterprise?

Look at it this way. The perpetual license as a software pricing model
has proven to be an economic dead end. So boutique software developers
have evolved a pricing model that delivers recurrent revenue. And
that's through annual licensing. So say your product's value
really is a no-brainer. And 25% of those 200 potential customers could
really use the product. So you price it at $2,000 with an annual
licensing fee of $1,000. Which is chump change in the grand scheme of
things. So at 50 customers, that's $100K in upfront licensing. And
then $50K per year in perpetuity for occasional upgrades. That's not
a bad ROI for 200 hours of development work. And the market size is so
small, there is little risk that a competitor will hop into the mix.

If I truly believed in a product I developed like you do, I'd think
about how to harvest some value if the level of effort to do that makes
sense.

SteveM

Greg Wilson wrote:
Thanks to all who have responded. In view of its highly specialized nature I
believe the potential client base is too limited - perhaps 200 or so in all
of North America. And only a very small percentage of these or none would
realistically take an interest. So I can't see it being worth the cost,
effort and risks.

By some political means, I may precipitate a serious review by other
manager(s) which may lead somewhere. But probably I will allow it to be
forgotten and will then take it with me in case it can be revamped to suit my
next employer's needs.

My post should serve as a warning to all that office politics and culture
will often prevail over logic. Management should first demonstrate a strong
motivation to change (not just the tacit agreement I received). What I regard
as a massively magnanimous act on my part was treated just about as shoddily
as possible. And yes I am still venting. Appologies.

Best regards to all,
Greg

:

Hi Greg,

In order of your questions -

1. All you need for starters is a simple site with a facility to download
your file and some method of receiving payment, eg Paypal. How much
additional effort you put in to the site and to attract interest would be up
to you.

2. As I understand there can be issues of ownership if the IP in some way
relates to your primary job even if developed in your own time. Problem
arises because some aspects may relate to knowledge learnt at work. It's
grey area of newly evolving law in UK/Europe (not sure about elsewhere).
Some universities in the UK now have pre-determined systems in place of
sharing IP ownership between author (employee) and employer regardless as to
where or in whose time the IP was developed.

I've no idea about your circumstances, if in doubt perhaps try and get a
disclaimer of title from your employer. If they refuse demand overtime for
your 200hrs! My guess is there won't be an issue.

3 Would it return a decent price - You are probably the best judge of that,
also relates to 1. above.

4 Piracy concerns:
As I'm sure you know vba security is minimal. To my mind piracy only
represents a loss if it means you lose a sale you would otherwise have made,
or someone uses your code to make a similar product and sells that, which
amounts to the same thing. With different types of product devaluation of
brand image is a concern but I doubt relevant here.

Perhaps put it in a VB6 dll with xla wrapper or a Com dll. If you've never
done that before will take a while.

5 Without knowing more about your app & market not sure what else to add.
But as already suggested in your first response try and get as many to beta
test (why not ask for volunteers here). Initially I think best to know true
identity and after obtaining a simple NDA. Later perhaps announce the first
release as beta on your site, free to those willing to give feedback.

Good luck,
Peter T


I have spent roughly 200 hours exclusively of my personal time writing an
extensive lab management program for my employer. This was done out of the
goodness of my heart and with the intense desire to end the agony of our
dysfunctional ways. In spite of receiving tacit approval at one point and
having the support of colleagues, management is now completely and
deliberately ignoring it.

Questions:
1. To cut my losses, is there a practical way to sell the program?
2. Are there concerns about ownership even if it was written 100% by me
on my own time but was tailored to the company's needs, was tested at our
office on our network and received a cursory review by one manager?
3. Would it return a decent price - i.e. would it likely be worth the
effort?
4. What about piracy concerns?
5. Additional words of wisdom much apprecitated !!!

Greg

 

[joseantonio]

Hello Greg,

I know some civil engineering lab companies in Mexico, I actually liv
in Toronto and may get to know some of them (as I'm a civil engineer,
may know the field). So why don't you tell me more about this softwar
of yours and let's see if it could be marketed.
One concern about marketing this kind of software si that VBA lacks o
a good security password, but there are some solutions around tha
could hel using hardlocks, or something like that; I'm currentl
investigating on that and posting here some questions about the subjec
to hear about their suitability.

Best regard

 

[Nicolas Noakes]

Greg,

Think of what Steve said, "If the the real problem is organizational
dysfunction, take my word for
it, software never fixes that."

The version I always try to remember is "Any complex system that works
was based on a simple system which worked". Applied to software
development, this means that no program is going to fix a process
problem - the process must be correct before it can be automated.

Sorry to dampen your enthusiasim, and good luck with getting some return
on your effort.

Regards,

Nicolas

 

[tony h]

Pushing something in an organisation that doesn't like innovators can b
dangerous. In my young(er!) days I was convinced that the economics o
the company's hardware platform was leading to a distinct lack o
competitiveness. I set about trying to influence a change eventually
(a junior engineer) invited the divisional director over for dinner (
jumps in the management ladder) and managed to pursuade him. (afte
lots and lots of work) a change was made and I found myself friendles
and without support. Everyone was happy with the change but they didn'
want a young upstart around to threaten their existance.

All I am saying here is that you have to get the politics right an
that includes what you want out of life. It is far too easy to win
battle and lose the war.

As for the IP content. Certainly in the UK it is difficult and costl
to pursue an IP infringement in software. Mostly, especially in smal
operations such as yours would be, people just wouldn't bother. Th
trick is to look at your defences:
- did you gain the industry knowledge before your currnet employer
- did you gain the logical experience before your current employer an
only apply it to the current industry
- did someone else bring the relevant knowledge to the process.

- rewrite key parts of the software so that it is not the same code
just does the same thing.

Issues with selling software :
- how much of your time will it take to sell? Don't underestimate thi
if it will need to be a budgeted purchase.
- do you need support from anyone else to support the sell?
- what support will the users need?
- is it critical software ie if they use it and it stops working d
they stop working?

- how much training will be required?

- how will you deliver it

- is there a way to make it look less industry specific?

If you are really determined to try and catch the attention of senio
management Try printing up a brochure and posting them to th
managers.

Good luck. You can only die once.

regard

 

[Guest]

Thanks for responding Tony, Nicolas and Joseantonio.

I'll grant you I sure got the politics wrong. I'm not worried about the
friendship issues (no love lost between me and management already) but
support for the program from management and colleagues and more generally for
its concept is crucial. So politics is crucial.

The program doesn't crunch numbers and produce results in an idustry
specific way. It serves as an electronic administrative system and
facilitates lab operation and management as one can glean from the term Lab
Information Management System (LIMS). It is industry specific only in that it
is structurally suited to this type of lab.

It will require a great deal of extra work and redesign to make it
marketable. It is almost certainly flawed and/or defficient in some ways
since it is complex and has never actually been used. I have come to the
conclusion that it needs a history of real world use with me in attendance
before it should be marketed. Hopefully I will still manage this. However, I
imagine that implementing and subsequently evolving and improving the program
in a company specific environment will compromise (or nullify) my claim to
it. So I'm undecided what to do here.

The notion that my employer should have so much as a nanogram of claim to it
makes me nauseous. At this point, they have contributed absolutely zip to its
development and concept. The risk I see is that if and when I leave (likely)
and it finds some utility with the new employer, knowing them, they would
throw a wrench into the works. Of course, it was tested and still resides on
the company network since it is designed to be network based. And since they
backup the nework weekly they will have a permanent copy (unless they destroy
it after awhile ???).

Thanks guys for the input and support.

Greg