Security Update KB925902

[Robinb]

well so far i patched 6 computers (btw they are all dell computers) and no
error msg
robin

 

[Anonymous Bob]

I get the distinct feeling from reading the blurb on this patch this is a
hastily contrived fix which is obviously not without its problems. What
intigues me is the fact you received a warning screen of the nature you
describe Alan. Never saw that on my machine - this must indicate MS are aware
of the shortcomings to some systems to even consider programming same into
the code ........

I went back to the Realtec site and checked the dates on the updated
drivers, 3/30/07. so it seems Microsoft and Realtec may have worked together
on this aspect of the problem. Keep in mind that the old driver was
improperly located into a reserved memory space:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=925902
....The relocation occurred because the DLL C:\Windows\System32\Hhctrl.ocx
occupied an address range reserved for Windows system DLLs. The vendor
supplying the DLL should be contacted for a new DLL.

This caused a load order problem and I suspect that some users may not
immediately see the problem.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/935448/
CAUSE
This problem may occur after you install security update 925902 (MS07-017)
and security update 928843 (MS07-008). The Hhctrl.ocx file that is included
in security update 928843 and the User32.dll file that is included in
security update 925902 have conflicting base addresses. This problem occurs
if the program loads the Hhctrl.ocx file before it loads the User32.dll
file.

I can't help but wonder if the Microsoft hotfix is simply there to help
Realtec with bandwidth. The Realtec site was a bit slow today.<g>

Bob Vanderveen

 

[Bill Sanderson MVP]

You may well not need that control panel, but it is hard to determine--needs
change.

You might be better off going to RealTek's site and getting the newer driver
from them. I think Bob posted a link to it, let me see if I can find it:

Here's what he posted:
----
Or this link:
Realtek HD Audio updates:
http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads...=3&GetDown=false#High Definition Audio Codecs

The latest update will fix the problem.
------
The real issue is with Realtek's code, so replacing that is a better fix
than the hotfix from Microsoft. One blog entry I read about this issue
stated that Microsoft does this--modifies their code or provides hotfixes,
basically to avoid embarrassing the other vendor involved.

Bob's point about RealTeks bandwidth makes sense.

I really wouldn't worry about the backup wording, etc--that is standard
wording for patches--you just never see it when you autoinstall them via
autoupdate.




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[Bill Sanderson MVP]

I haven't seen any issues related to this patch yet, except that I am
sitting at a Windows Server 2003 machine which failed to reconnect to the
Internet after the reboot following the patch.

It did the same thing the last time it was rebooted, so I believe that the
patch is irrelevant to the issue--but I haven't figured out what the issue
is!

(and, yeah--it is now connected or I wouldn't be typing this--but I had to
do in RRAS and put it back on NAT and ICS.)

--

 

[Guest]

You might be better off going to RealTek's site and getting the newer driver
from them. I think Bob posted a link to it
Realtek HD Audio updates:
http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads...=3&GetDown=false#High Definition Audio Codecs

Thanks Bill (and thanks Bob). The download rate from the RealTek site is
just a faint trickle, so I'll wait a day or two.

In the meantime, could someone please tell me:
When I've downloaded the updated driver package, do I just double click on
it? Will it install itself? (The impression I get from the Readme is that I
don't need to uninstall the old drivers first - but I'd appreciate a second
opinion.)

Also - why doesn't Windows update tell me there's a new updated driver
available?

 

[Bill Sanderson MVP]

I can't answer the first part easily--drivers differ in their
instructions--but I'd try what you propose first.

The second question I think I can take a stab at: Drivers handed out by
WindowsUpdate have been rigorously tested against a suite of compatibily
tests. I believe this testing is done initially by the vendor, who then
submit the tested driver to Microsoft, who verify that it passes those
tests. The vendor must digitally sign the driver, which both makes its
provenance clear, and protects against modification at any later point.
This part is expensive--a code-signing certificate is hundreds of dollars.
I'm not certain whether Microsoft charges for the testing and
storage/distribution.

In my experience, comparitively few drivers meet the WHQL
standards--including drivers for Microsoft-branded hardware. Additionally,
very few drivers are actually distributed via AutoUpdate--in my experience I
mostly see drivers for HP printers, Monitors, and some Dell drivers.
Additionally, apparently the ID strings used to match the hardware in your
machine to the available drivers are imperfect--although I've eventually
been able to install every patch Microsoft offers for Windows on every
machine, I often find that offered hardware drivers do not install, or do
install and fail to work--i.e. aren't appropriate for the actual hardware in
place.

This process is the price we pay for an open standards-based system with
thousands of vendors. Apple users don't have these complexities, by and
large, and they pay for that privilege.

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[robinb]

to add my 2 cents also,
I have always used the phrase "what is not broken doesn't need to be fixed"
Computer manufactures including Dell which i use alot have told me that
unless you are having a particular problem with a particular driver or
security issue, there is no reason to update it because then you can now
find yourself with a problem. I have followed this advice for over 10 years
with my own computers and my clients and have not had any problems. In fact
after some clients that called me over the yrs did so because they updated
unnecessary drivers and found themselves in a heap of trouble. I had to
uninstall or roll back the driver to get things to work again.
robin

 

[Guest]

The second question I think I can take a stab at: Drivers handed out by
WindowsUpdate have been rigorously tested against a suite of compatibily
tests. ...etc... etc

Bill, what a wonderfully thorough answer! Thank you! I'm reminded of the
lines from Goldsmith's 'The Deserted Village':
"And still they gazed, and still the wonder grew
That one small head could carry all he knew."

Actually, I just discovered that rthdcpl.exe (which I think is the suspect
Realtek program) is one of the programs I blocked at start-up some time ago,
when I was eliminating a stack of unnecessary running processes. So that's an
added complication. I'll unblock it and see what happens at the next startup.

 

[Bill Sanderson MVP]

The layers of the onion continually amaze. I'm always impressed when I can
get someone knowledgable about, say, the BIOS, or how disks work, to
describe some of the lower level stuff that goes on even below what Windows
handles itself.

(and usually, those folks actually know what they are talking about far
better than the level of muddled comprehension I can manage!)

Clearly, you haven't missed that driver. Unblock it and see if you get the
error message, and if you do, maybe just blocking it again is the thing to
do.
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[Guest]

Clearly, you haven't missed that driver. Unblock it and see if you get the
error message, and if you do, maybe just blocking it again is the thing to
do.

I unblocked it at startup, and lo and behold - up comes the dreaded error
message on reboot.

Well, I've reblocked it for now. You're right Bill - it hasn't been missed,
so I could just ignore the whole thing.

But if I do decide to try the MS hotfix - I presume a system restore point
beforehand would be enough backup?

 

[Bill Sanderson MVP]

Yes, and, in fact, I believe that the hotfix installer creates that restore
point automatically as part of the installation process.

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