Seagate Hard Drive question..

[kony]

Maybe I'll run this one for a while then, and see if it 'settles down' a
bit. Might be just because it's new, and the bearings are tight. But my
thought is that vibration is most likely caused by the platters or motor
not being perfectly balanced, if indeed they're balanced at all. Reminds
me of getting an engine crankshaft balanced to prevent vibration.

There should be no break-in period necessary, if the
mechanical parts wore (broke in) that fast, it would also be
a sign it could go out of operational tolerances too soon
also.

 

[lynx]

Yours is beyond "loud" into the realm of "defective", he probably has
no idea just HOW bad your case is, until he hears it himself. It sounds
as if the platter is badly warped. And the SCRAPING noise, would
confirm this. You shoud *never* hear scraping, it's the read head
hitting a warped platter. I wouldn't trust that drive for anything but
a paperweight.

Thanks. That sounds more like what I suspected.


--

rgds,

Pete
~~~~~
'This is like deja vu all over again'

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

I have just purchased a ST3250820AS 250gb
but when I put it in the system, and fired it up,
I noticed how noisy it was. I'm not talking about hard drive
activity, as I haven't even installed a OS on it yet, but rather just
the noise caused by the rotation of the platters. It produced a
humming type noise, and vibration was quite noticeable.

So I'm wondering if this is normal for this drive, or if it's faulty?

I spoke to the dealer yesterday, and his comment was that all SATA
drives are noisy- or noisier than PATA drives at least- and that the
level of noise that I was experiencing was quite normal, and is due
mainly to two factors: poor quality of today's drives that are now made
in China, and the much faster data transfer rate of 3Gb/s. He said he
was nevertheless happy to replace the drive to allay my fears.

Why should SATA drives vibrate more than PATA drives when they're
mechanically identical to each other? What's the name of that dealer?
Because frauds and idiots like that should be exposed.

I think that you were simply sold a worse than average sample because
I've bought Seagates since the Barracuda IV series, and none vibrated
much at all. I recently had a chance to compare PATA and SATA Seagate
400GB series 7200.9 and 7200.10 drives being tested together, and they
were all quiet and hardly vibrated, with no noticeable differences
between the PATA and SATA versions or between those made in Thailand
and those from China. I was interested in these because the 400GB PATA
7200.9 I recently bought (made in China) ran a few degrees hotter than
my 120GB and 160GB series 7200.7 drives, but apparently that's normal.

MY only HDs that vibrated noticeably were all PATA: 120GB Western
Digital (Thailand or Malaysia), 250GB Samsung (unknown origin, in a
Buffalo USB drive), and a 200GB Hitachi (Thailand).

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

Yours is beyond "loud" into the realm of "defective", he probably has
no idea just HOW bad your case is, until he hears it himself. It sounds
as if the platter is badly warped. And the SCRAPING noise, would
confirm this. You shoud *never* hear scraping, it's the read head
hitting a warped platter. I wouldn't trust that drive for anything but
a paperweight.

Wouldn't a drive as bad as that shut down or not be recognized by the
computer?

Isn't vibration more likely to be caused by platters that are
off-center rather than warped? And I've heard scraping noises from HDs
when they turn on or shut down.

 

[Swampfox]

message

Swampfox wrote:


Maybe I'll run this one for a while
then, and see if it 'settles down' a
bit. Might be just because it's new,
and the bearings are tight. But my
thought is that vibration is most
likely caused by the platters or motor
not being perfectly balanced, if
indeed they're balanced at all.
Reminds me of getting an engine
crankshaft balanced to prevent
vibration.



I always had Seagate's too, but
noticed that it's only the later more
modern and faster drives that seem to
have this vibration/noise problem.


--

rgds,

Pete
~~~~~
'I don't have a solution but I admire
the problem'

I spoke too soon, the whine's back.
It's going for replacement.

 

[lynx]

larry moe 'n curly wrote:

(e-mail address removed) wrote:



Wouldn't a drive as bad as that shut down or not be recognized by the
computer?

According to the computer boot up screen, SMART is not enabled on my
drives, but there doesn't seem to be anywhere in the motherboard BIOS to
enable it. (???)

Isn't vibration more likely to be caused by platters that are
off-center rather than warped?

That's what I thought.

And I've heard scraping noises from HDs
when they turn on or shut down.

I've checked two other drives both seagate- a 120gb PATA ST3120814A
7200.9, and a 160gb SATA ST3160827AS 7200.7. The PATA drive makes the
scraping noise, but the SATA doesn't. The noise is quite faint. Could it
just be the heads 'parking', or some other aspect of the mechanics?

I often wonder just how careful some dealers are with handling of hard
drives. And of course there's all the transport/shipping/handling before
they even reach the retail outlets. But this drive is definitely going
back! I'm just not confident that I'll then get a replacement that's
good. I'm starting to lose faith in modern hard drives. Someone I know
had a Seagate PATA fail after just six months.


--

rgds,

Pete
~~~~~
'Key ring: A handy device for losing all your keys at the one time'

 

[Rod Speed]

(e-mail address removed) wrote

lynx wrote:

Yours is beyond "loud" into the realm of "defective", he probably
has no idea just HOW bad your case is, until he hears it himself.

It sounds as if the platter is badly warped.

No it doesnt.

And the SCRAPING noise, would confirm this. You shoud *never*
hear scraping, it's the read head hitting a warped platter.

Its MUCH more likely that that noise is just the heads parking.

 

[Rod Speed]

larry moe 'n curly wrote

According to the computer boot up screen, SMART is not enabled on my drives, but there doesn't
seem to be anywhere in the motherboard BIOS to enable it. (???)

Yeah, some older systems dont have that.

You can check the SMART data using Everest.
http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=4181

That's what I thought.

And you are both right.

I've checked two other drives both seagate- a 120gb PATA ST3120814A
7200.9, and a 160gb SATA ST3160827AS 7200.7. The PATA drive makes the scraping noise, but the SATA
doesn't. The noise is quite faint. Could
it just be the heads 'parking',

Yep, that's all it is. The evidence is that you
only hear it after the drive is powered down.

or some other aspect of the mechanics?

Definitely the heads parking because of when it happens.

I often wonder just how careful some dealers are with handling of hard drives.

Yeah, there's always some risk that a drive got
dropped and no one had the balls to admit doing that.

And of course there's all the transport/shipping/handling before they even reach the retail
outlets. But this drive is definitely going back! I'm just not confident that I'll then get a
replacement that's good. I'm starting to lose faith in modern hard drives.

They're much more reliable than they used to be.

Someone I know had a Seagate PATA fail after just six months.

Sure, that can certainly happen.

 

[indiekiduk]

I read the whole thread and I'm suprised no one has answered this
already. Seagate were getting sued due to a patent infringement in
their Automatic Acoustic Management (AAM) software on the drives. And
so all Seagates drives sold now have that feature removed and hence
are now ridiculously loud. If you want quiet you now need to buy
Western Digital and you can use the Hitachi disk tools CD (Feature
Tool (v2.03)) to set the ratio of acoustics/performance you prefer.

So if you are in the market for a 320gb sata avoid the ST3320620AS and
get the WD3200KS.

Feature Tool (v2.03)
http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/download.htm
# Change the drive Automatic Acoustic Management settings to the:

* Lowest acoustic emanation setting (Quiet Seek Mode), or
* Maximum performance level (Normal Seek Mode).

It was set to normal on the WD3200KS I bought from komplett.co.uk so I
had to use Feature Tool to make it completely silent. The cd has a
seek test feature so you can actually change the AAM value (0-100)
and listen to the change it volume in real time. I ghosted my system
to the WD and now use the Seagate one as a backup which I rarely
access so don't have to put up with the noise all the time.

 

[Rod Speed]

I read the whole thread and I'm suprised no one has answered this
already. Seagate were getting sued due to a patent infringement in their
Automatic Acoustic Management (AAM) software on the drives. And so
all Seagates drives sold now have that feature removed and hence are
now ridiculously loud. If you want quiet you now need to buy Western Digital

No you dont, you can buy Samsung and get both AAM and even quieter too.

and you can use the Hitachi disk tools CD (Feature Tool (v2.03))
to set the ratio of acoustics/performance you prefer.

So if you are in the market for a 320gb sata avoid
the ST3320620AS and get the WD3200KS.

Get the Samsung instead.

Feature Tool (v2.03)
http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/download.htm
# Change the drive Automatic Acoustic Management settings to the:

 

[kony]

I read the whole thread and I'm suprised no one has answered this
already.

Neither have you. Re-read the OP's opening post. An
excerpt:

"I'm not talking about hard drive
activity, as I haven't even installed
a OS on it yet, but rather just the
noise caused by the rotation of the
platters."

Seagate were getting sued due to a patent infringement in
their Automatic Acoustic Management (AAM) software on the drives.

.... which is an interesting bit of info for anyone who did
not know, but would not account for the constant sound the
OP described. This AAM (as with the other brands' names for
same thing) only reduces seek noise.

And
so all Seagates drives sold now have that feature removed and hence
are now ridiculously loud.

No, they are not ridiculously loud, and some of us disable
that feature anyway because it increases seek times. I mean
on the non-Seagate drives too.

If you want quiet you now need to buy
Western Digital and you can use the Hitachi disk tools CD (Feature
Tool (v2.03)) to set the ratio of acoustics/performance you prefer.

No, any properly working drive should be fine.

So if you are in the market for a 320gb sata avoid the ST3320620AS and
get the WD3200KS.

A WD3200KS would be one resolution, and the odds of
resolution would be the same as randomly grabbing any other
drive since this was not a seek noise issue.

Feature Tool (v2.03)
http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/download.htm
# Change the drive Automatic Acoustic Management settings to the:

* Lowest acoustic emanation setting (Quiet Seek Mode), or
* Maximum performance level (Normal Seek Mode).

It was set to normal on the WD3200KS I bought from komplett.co.uk so I
had to use Feature Tool to make it completely silent.

Most people don't need "completely silent" and most drives
aren't much louder with the accoustic management in the
"fastest" (or per-manufacturer name for that mode) versus
slowest AAM mode. It should be obvious why all drives, even
those with accoustic management enabled, do not start out
using "slowest" mode, because the performance is slower,
lower, and in a good system case the noise difference is
only significant if the system and even whole room were
fairly quiet.

That does not discount the usefullness IF there is a very
quiet room and a need to make the drive as near silent as
possible, but again, that is not what the OP was
describing.

 

[meow2222]

Neither have you. Re-read the OP's opening post. An
excerpt:

"I'm not talking about hard drive
activity, as I haven't even installed
a OS on it yet, but rather just the
noise caused by the rotation of the
platters."

I had a very whiny scsi drive to sort out, it was intolerably noisy.
Moved it onto the base of the machine, away from the front, added
cardboard baffles between drive and intake / outlet, and stuck double
thick cardboard to the base and sides as damping. Machine almost
silent.


NT

 

[meow2222]

Neither have you. Re-read the OP's opening post. An
excerpt:

"I'm not talking about hard drive
activity, as I haven't even installed
a OS on it yet, but rather just the
noise caused by the rotation of the
platters."

I had a very whiny scsi drive to sort out, it was intolerably noisy.
Moved it onto the base of the machine, away from the front, added
cardboard baffles between drive and intake / outlet, and stuck double
thick cardboard to the base and sides as damping. Machine almost
silent.

NB you need the double thick cardboard, not the more common single
thickness. Used in the largest boxes.


NT

 

[kony]

I had a very whiny scsi drive to sort out, it was intolerably noisy.
Moved it onto the base of the machine, away from the front, added
cardboard baffles between drive and intake / outlet, and stuck double
thick cardboard to the base and sides as damping. Machine almost
silent.

NB you need the double thick cardboard, not the more common single
thickness. Used in the largest boxes.

Yes those and other methods of quieting systems,
particularly mechanical parts, can sometimes help a lot, but
in the OP's case it may be more significant that this was
not a normal noise level and could be a sign of a problem-
even if it is merely lower tolerance bearing or platter that
works initially but fails sooner than other drives.

 

[lynx]

larry moe 'n curly wrote:

I realize that this thread is now quite old, but in fairness to the
dealer, and as a final follow up, i'll comment as follows..

lynx wrote:




Why should SATA drives vibrate more than PATA drives when they're
mechanically identical to each other?

I didn't know this.

What's the name of that dealer?
Because frauds and idiots like that should be exposed.

I don't think there's an integrity issue here. He is really a parts
supplier rather than a dealer, since he doesn't supply or build complete
systems. So that would tend to explain his lack of technical knowledge-
although I think he should know better than he does. He has been around
for quite a while (shonky dealers tend not to last long), and he
replaced the drive without hesitation.

I think that you were simply sold a worse than average sample because
I've bought Seagates since the Barracuda IV series, and none vibrated
much at all. I recently had a chance to compare PATA and SATA Seagate
400GB series 7200.9 and 7200.10 drives being tested together, and they
were all quiet and hardly vibrated, with no noticeable differences
between the PATA and SATA versions or between those made in Thailand
and those from China. I was interested in these because the 400GB PATA
7200.9 I recently bought (made in China) ran a few degrees hotter than
my 120GB and 160GB series 7200.7 drives, but apparently that's normal.

MY only HDs that vibrated noticeably were all PATA: 120GB Western
Digital (Thailand or Malaysia), 250GB Samsung (unknown origin, in a
Buffalo USB drive), and a 200GB Hitachi (Thailand).

The replacement drive is quieter than the first one, but still noisy. I
have since had a chance to compare both Western Digital and Samsung
drives, and they are both quieter than the Seagate. The WD is the
quietest (almost inaudible), but the Samsung is the fastest.

I still think tho that I may be getting these Seagates drives from a
'bad' batch. And a five year warranty is not much help if the drive
fails, and you lose all your data. I'm considering if I'll ask this
'dealer' to swap it for a WD.


--

rgds,

Pete
~~~~~
'Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate'

 

[free2002]

in my experience WD are crap, 2 failed in 2003, but then that was 3 yrs ago
so i dunno if they have improved since then

 

[Damien McBain]

free2002 committed to the eternal aether...:

in my experience WD are crap, 2 failed in 2003, but then that was 3 yrs ago
so i dunno if they have improved since then

All my WD's are going fine, I have never had one fail. I have 1 x 40GB, 3 x
80GB abd 2 x 160 GB. The only drives that have ever let me down are
Maxtor.

 

[Gary R. Schmidt]

in my experience WD are crap, 2 failed in 2003, but then that was 3 yrs ago
so i dunno if they have improved since then

Three years ago?!?!? Hah! No bloody experience, in other words.

In the last twenty-five or so years I have purchased for myself or my
employers or my customers disk drives from every manufacturer that has
ever been in the game.

A _very_ few have failed, most have worked faultlessly until retired.

The only ones that I have seen *reliably* fail were the IBM DeathStars,
and that showed up quickly enough that the few I had purchased were
replaced before they failed.

Yes, there can be and are bad batches of drives, but please, 2 failed
means the entire output is crap? Out of how many?

Out of a couple of thousand drives, I've had about a dozen fail
(including 2 DeathStars), and most of them were at customer sites, where
I didn't have total control of the environment so cannot be sure that
some bunny didn't do something to the box.

The moral of this is, "Buy a disk drive from anyone. If it isn't quite
right, take it back and get it replaced, because a drive from *any*
manufacturer can fail."

Cheers,
Gary B-)