scanning options for slide archival...

R

Randy Howard

I'm trying to do the "archive the old family photos" deal, and I
have a boatload (almost literally) of slides my parents took
before we were born and after I want to scan in.

I am curious what sort of options to use *before* I start, I
don't want to discover after days of scanning that I need to go
back and redo some of them, if you know what I mean. These
aren't going to be used for large blow-ups (apart from a few
"winners") but mainly for use in viewing on a monitor or TV. A
few may be printed out, but any that look that good will be
scanned at max quality settings probably.

First off, what DPI to use for 35mm slides? I can choose up to
4800dpi (which takes forever), and optionally 48-bit color mode
on my Canon 9950 flatbed scanner. Is 1200 dpi sufficient for
the bulk of them, or should 2400 be a minimum?

Also, should you use the unsharp mask option built in to the
scanning software, or do any of that later on in PS after
cropping/sizing, etc.?

Any recommendations on how to proceed before I go down this path
would be great, thanks...
 
S

Scott W

Randy said:
I'm trying to do the "archive the old family photos" deal, and I
have a boatload (almost literally) of slides my parents took
before we were born and after I want to scan in.

I am curious what sort of options to use *before* I start, I
don't want to discover after days of scanning that I need to go
back and redo some of them, if you know what I mean. These
aren't going to be used for large blow-ups (apart from a few
"winners") but mainly for use in viewing on a monitor or TV. A
few may be printed out, but any that look that good will be
scanned at max quality settings probably.

First off, what DPI to use for 35mm slides? I can choose up to
4800dpi (which takes forever), and optionally 48-bit color mode
on my Canon 9950 flatbed scanner. Is 1200 dpi sufficient for
the bulk of them, or should 2400 be a minimum?

Also, should you use the unsharp mask option built in to the
scanning software, or do any of that later on in PS after
cropping/sizing, etc.?

Any recommendations on how to proceed before I go down this path
would be great, thanks...

You will likely get any number of people telling you it should be done
one way or the other. There are people who feel you have to always
scan at the highest resolution but as you have found out this results
in very slow scans. The best thing to do is a bunch of testing on your
own to get a feel for how the scanner resolution affects that quality
of the image.

As for sharpening with the scanner or doing it later in a program like
Photoshop testing is again needed. Photoshop really sucks at
sharpening and produces far more halos that are needed. It would not
surprise me if the scanner software did a better just with sharpening,
it is worth a try.

For myself I tend to scan most of my slide at less then full resolution
and then rescan one that I would like in higher resolution. In this
way I get all my slides scanned with at the highest resolution I would
not have time to do but also get the slides I really care about in the
highest resolution.

In the end you have to make the choices about what is important to you
and how much work you are willing to take to scan your slides.

Three is nothing like scanning a bunch of slides to really make you
appreciate a DSLR.

Scott
 
R

Randy Howard

Scott W wrote
(in article
You will likely get any number of people telling you it should be done
one way or the other. There are people who feel you have to always
scan at the highest resolution but as you have found out this results
in very slow scans. The best thing to do is a bunch of testing on your
own to get a feel for how the scanner resolution affects that quality
of the image.

As for sharpening with the scanner or doing it later in a program like
Photoshop testing is again needed. Photoshop really sucks at
sharpening and produces far more halos that are needed. It would not
surprise me if the scanner software did a better just with sharpening,
it is worth a try.

These slides have apparently been handled a lot, a LOT of
problems with the slides as far as artifacts. Some was dust,
but it's more like the image have been scratched (but not long
scratches in most cases, almost like pinpricks) and you get a
lot of crap on some of these images. Perhaps it's just age
getting to them. I think they actually stored them in a closet
full of mothballs, you get a strong smell of that opening up
some of these boxes, which probably isn't good either.

The other thing is they're in those paper Kodak mounts, which
gives you badly rounded off corners, unlike the square, 90 deg
angle plastic mounts I use for slide work.
For myself I tend to scan most of my slide at less then full resolution
and then rescan one that I would like in higher resolution.

I started on some of these right after I posted, and that's what
I've been doing, but based on the results I'm getting so far,
many of these aren't going to be worth scanning at full res. I
have boxes and boxes to sort through, of varying quality.
In this
way I get all my slides scanned with at the highest resolution I would
not have time to do but also get the slides I really care about in the
highest resolution.

Makes sense.
In the end you have to make the choices about what is important to you
and how much work you are willing to take to scan your slides.

Three is nothing like scanning a bunch of slides to really make you
appreciate a DSLR.

Isn't that the truth?
 
K

Ken Weitzel

Randy said:
Scott W wrote
(in article



These slides have apparently been handled a lot, a LOT of
problems with the slides as far as artifacts. Some was dust,
but it's more like the image have been scratched (but not long
scratches in most cases, almost like pinpricks) and you get a
lot of crap on some of these images. Perhaps it's just age
getting to them. I think they actually stored them in a closet
full of mothballs, you get a strong smell of that opening up
some of these boxes, which probably isn't good either.

The other thing is they're in those paper Kodak mounts, which
gives you badly rounded off corners, unlike the square, 90 deg
angle plastic mounts I use for slide work.




I started on some of these right after I posted, and that's what
I've been doing, but based on the results I'm getting so far,
many of these aren't going to be worth scanning at full res. I
have boxes and boxes to sort through, of varying quality.




Makes sense.




Isn't that the truth?

Hi...

Respectfully suggest that you get ahold of a copy of
Polaroid's (free) dust and scratch removal utility, and
give it a try.

http://www.polaroid.com/service/software/poladsr/poladsr.html

The price is right, and it's a great timesaver, particularly
on old stuff :)

Take care.

Ken
 
P

Peter

Randy Howard said:
I'm trying to do the "archive the old family photos" deal, and I
have a boatload (almost literally) of slides my parents took
before we were born and after I want to scan in.

I am curious what sort of options to use *before* I start, I
don't want to discover after days of scanning that I need to go
back and redo some of them, if you know what I mean. These
aren't going to be used for large blow-ups (apart from a few
"winners") but mainly for use in viewing on a monitor or TV. A
few may be printed out, but any that look that good will be
scanned at max quality settings probably.

First off, what DPI to use for 35mm slides? I can choose up to
4800dpi (which takes forever), and optionally 48-bit color mode
on my Canon 9950 flatbed scanner. Is 1200 dpi sufficient for
the bulk of them, or should 2400 be a minimum?

Also, should you use the unsharp mask option built in to the
scanning software, or do any of that later on in PS after
cropping/sizing, etc.?

Any recommendations on how to proceed before I go down this path
would be great, thanks...
Hello Randy,

I have bought an Epson 4490 for exactly that purpose. Like you I would like
to know the basics before I embark on this marathon journey. With Full Auto
Mode in Epson Scan the default DPI is 300 with a choice of increasing to
1200, I have tried in Professional Mode to increase the DPI and the maximum
is 12800 and as all the experts here seem to talk about 4000 DPI I tried
4800 DPI (48-bit color) and the file size was 163mb saved as a TIFF. Quite
amazing, if I accept the default 300DPI in Full Auto Mode the result, to my
inexperienced eye, is acceptable but I don't wish to scan them all at 300DPI
only to discover that if I had done it at a higher DPI I could have printed
them out as well as creating a slide show. Any suggestions would be much
appreciated.
 
R

Raphael Bustin

I have bought an Epson 4490 for exactly that purpose. Like you I would like
to know the basics before I embark on this marathon journey. With Full Auto
Mode in Epson Scan the default DPI is 300 with a choice of increasing to
1200, I have tried in Professional Mode to increase the DPI and the maximum
is 12800 and as all the experts here seem to talk about 4000 DPI I tried
4800 DPI (48-bit color) and the file size was 163mb saved as a TIFF. Quite
amazing, if I accept the default 300DPI in Full Auto Mode the result, to my
inexperienced eye, is acceptable but I don't wish to scan them all at 300DPI
only to discover that if I had done it at a higher DPI I could have printed
them out as well as creating a slide show. Any suggestions would be much
appreciated.



On the 4990, there's not much point scanning above 2400.
There just isn't any detail above that. Scanning at resolution
above 4800 is completely useless; that's the max optical
resolution.

Find the sharpest transition in your scanned image and
count how many pixels the edge actually occupies when
you scan at 4800 spi.

A lot, in the 4990. Like maybe six or eight or more.
Even at 2400 spi the Epson 4990 is soft.

The way to check is like this:

1. scan at 4800, save the file
2. downsample to 2400 and save by another name
3. close both files, reopen both files
4.upsample the 2400 dpi back to 4800 and compare
it to the original. Do you see a difference?

If there was significant detail above 2400 dpi,
you would expect the down/upsampled file to
be visibly inferior.


rafe b
www.terrapinphoto.com
 
R

Randy Howard

Randy Howard wrote
(in article said:
Ken Weitzel wrote


I'll give it a try, thank you.

I'm going to have to play with it some more, but the defaults
seem VERY aggressive about what it thinks a scratch is. Still,
seems worth pursuing, especially for the really bad ones.
 
R

Randy Howard

Randy Howard wrote
(in article <[email protected]>):
By the way, either I have the scanner set up improperly, or
there is zero point in scanning above 2400dpi with 1960s era
Kodachrome. The grain (with the grain correction in the
ScanGear software off or on) is nasty. Sure nothing like Provia
100f. :-(
 
D

Don

Some was dust,
but it's more like the image have been scratched (but not long
scratches in most cases, almost like pinpricks) and you get a
lot of crap on some of these images.

That's probably the so-called "pepper spots". Without getting into too
much detail it's small bubbles which are a function of (old) film.
With the advent of scanning that became a problem and film
manufacturing has been changed to eliminate, or at least, minimize it.

However, "pepper spots" are there in old film and even ICE can't
handle it. The only option is manual touch-ups (takes forever!) or
some (semi) automatic software like the Polaroid plug-in Ken
suggested.

The conceptual problem with software is that it usually involves some
data loss because the image is "softened" i.e. blurred to some extent.

Don.
 
D

Don

I'm trying to do the "archive the old family photos" deal, and I
have a boatload (almost literally) of slides my parents took
before we were born and after I want to scan in.

I am curious what sort of options to use *before* I start, I
don't want to discover after days of scanning that I need to go
back and redo some of them, if you know what I mean. These
aren't going to be used for large blow-ups (apart from a few
"winners") but mainly for use in viewing on a monitor or TV. A
few may be printed out, but any that look that good will be
scanned at max quality settings probably.

First off, what DPI to use for 35mm slides? I can choose up to
4800dpi (which takes forever), and optionally 48-bit color mode
on my Canon 9950 flatbed scanner. Is 1200 dpi sufficient for
the bulk of them, or should 2400 be a minimum?

Also, should you use the unsharp mask option built in to the
scanning software, or do any of that later on in PS after
cropping/sizing, etc.?

Any recommendations on how to proceed before I go down this path
would be great, thanks...

First of all a flatbed is not really suited for scanning film for a
number of reasons. If you do have a large number of slides and really
want to preserve them for posterity you should look into a film
scanner, budget permitting.

As to archiving, even though your end goal is viewing on TV/monitor do
note that this resolution will change! And when it does then today's
"big" images will turn into "postage stamps" on future monitors (not
to mention the dynamic range). The same goes for printing.

So, if archiving (i.e. preservation) is the underlying goal you should
really scan at maximum resolution and bit depth. Don't do any editing
(especially not in the scanner software which, as a rule, only has a
limited subset of editing tools) but scan "raw". That will be your
"digital negative" which is burned to DVDs or archived in some other
manner. Once that is done you have halted and "frozen" any future film
deterioration.

After that you use this "digital negative" and create a copy "for
consumption" namely edit, reduce resolution, convert to JPG, etc. In a
couple of years when you get a new larger monitor or HDTV or a new
printer, you (or your descendents) can always go back and create
another image "for consumption" to suit the new devices.

Now, you may not care for any of that, and there's nothing wrong with
scanning to suit your current devices. I'm just mentioning it as
something to consider up front because, as you say, it can be very
tedious having to go back and start from scratch all over again.

Also, see below my quote below from another recent message.

Don.
 
R

Randy Howard

Don wrote
(in article said:
That's probably the so-called "pepper spots". Without getting into too
much detail it's small bubbles which are a function of (old) film.
With the advent of scanning that became a problem and film
manufacturing has been changed to eliminate, or at least, minimize it.

Yes, that sounds like exactly what I'm seeing.
However, "pepper spots" are there in old film and even ICE can't
handle it. The only option is manual touch-ups (takes forever!) or
some (semi) automatic software like the Polaroid plug-in Ken
suggested.

The conceptual problem with software is that it usually involves some
data loss because the image is "softened" i.e. blurred to some extent.

Exactly what I experienced when I tried the polaroid software.
 
R

Randy Howard

Don wrote
(in article said:
First of all a flatbed is not really suited for scanning film for a
number of reasons. If you do have a large number of slides and really
want to preserve them for posterity you should look into a film
scanner, budget permitting.

Well, I understand that is the case, but my plan is to basically
flag everything that looks like a "keeper" and worth trying to
get a great scan of, and weed out most of the rest on this pass,
but without throwing anything away unless it's just a blown
shot.

If I can weed this train wreck down to a few dozen or so
absolute winners, I'll worry about that when I get there.
As to archiving, even though your end goal is viewing on TV/monitor do
note that this resolution will change! And when it does then today's
"big" images will turn into "postage stamps" on future monitors (not
to mention the dynamic range). The same goes for printing.

3000x2000 (or higher with the bigger dpi values) seems like
enough to avoid postage stamp issues for quite a while, but I
see your point.
So, if archiving (i.e. preservation) is the underlying goal you should
really scan at maximum resolution and bit depth. Don't do any editing
(especially not in the scanner software which, as a rule, only has a
limited subset of editing tools) but scan "raw". That will be your
"digital negative" which is burned to DVDs or archived in some other
manner. Once that is done you have halted and "frozen" any future film
deterioration.

The freebie software is horrible. For example, every time
(okay, 9/10 times) you go to save a file after the scan is
completed, it will save the file in the wrong format. It keeps
trying to "phone home" to jpg, no matter what. You type in the
filename, it defaults back to jpeg every single time no matter
what, you save it anyway with tiff selected, one look at the
file size and you know it failed, and you do a save as on top of
it and RE-enter tiff again, and it will take the second time.
Canon sucks to ship crap software like this. It's not making
have a strong desire to rush out and buy any more Canon
hardware, I can tell you that. :-( No desire to spend any
time editing in there at all.
After that you use this "digital negative" and create a copy "for
consumption" namely edit, reduce resolution, convert to JPG, etc. In a
couple of years when you get a new larger monitor or HDTV or a new
printer, you (or your descendents) can always go back and create
another image "for consumption" to suit the new devices.

I understand that process, basically the same as shooting in RAW
nowadays. I always keep a clean copy. The only debate is
whether or not it's worth doing them all at max res. Due to the
aging that is going on with a lot of them, it's just not worth
it at this point for a lot of these. Of course, it may just be
certain batches that are this bad, I won't know for quite a
while. Most are suitable for a video slideshow, but less than a
dozen so far are what you might consider suitable for framing.

It is stunning to look at, for example, what Las Vegas, the
Grand Canyon or Waikiki beach looked like over 40 years ago.
Wow, what a change. And actual blue skies, instead of haze and
smog. Looking at before and after shots of some of these
locations is enough to make an environmentalist out of almost
anyone. :)
Now, you may not care for any of that, and there's nothing wrong with
scanning to suit your current devices. I'm just mentioning it as
something to consider up front because, as you say, it can be very
tedious having to go back and start from scratch all over again.

Well, I am lucky that there are years and in some cases months
on the majority of the slide mounts, and I am going through the
tedious process of sorting them (better than they were after 40
years of storage and loading/unloading into projector trays) and
naming the files in a directory hierarchy so that if anything
pops up as being worthy of a rescan it will be much easier to
locate. I can pretty much tell though as they come off the
scanner if they're worth higher res, and in those cases I'm
doing in place before they get sorted back.

What's the marketing reference?
 
K

Ken Weitzel

Randy said:
Randy Howard wrote



I'm going to have to play with it some more, but the defaults
seem VERY aggressive about what it thinks a scratch is. Still,
seems worth pursuing, especially for the really bad ones.

Hi Randy...

I agree, it's out of the box default settings are much too sensitive for
35mm scans.

Everyone's different, of course, but if you'd like to try mine
as a starting point, for 35mm negs I clean light, with (top to
bottom) 10, 2, 4. For 35 slides the same, except naturally
clean dark.

And I still view full size to make sure that I haven't removed
the glint from someone's eye :)

Take care.

Ken
 
R

Randy Howard

Ken Weitzel wrote
(in article said:
Hi Randy...

I agree, it's out of the box default settings are much too sensitive for
35mm scans.

Everyone's different, of course, but if you'd like to try mine
as a starting point, for 35mm negs I clean light, with (top to
bottom) 10, 2, 4. For 35 slides the same, except naturally
clean dark.

And I still view full size to make sure that I haven't removed
the glint from someone's eye :)

Thanks, I'll give those numbers a shot and see how it turns out.
 
D

Don

If I can weed this train wreck down to a few dozen or so
absolute winners, I'll worry about that when I get there.

That's a good plan, too. Once you've narrowed it down, you can have
the winners scanner professionally, if it comes to that.

I just decided to do them all figuring that what's important to me is
not necessarily what's going to be important to people looking at it
in the future. So I just do everything and be done with it. Saves me
agonizing over what to keep and what to toss.

I also figure, storage is cheap and these 1000s of today's "huge"
files will probably all fit on a single "future-DVD" with room to
spare.
3000x2000 (or higher with the bigger dpi values) seems like
enough to avoid postage stamp issues for quite a while, but I
see your point.

The thing is manufacturer ratings are notorious for fibbing. There are
ways (the razor edge test) to find out the real resolution which is
often times half that for flatbeds.

And believe it or not but 3000x2000 is not that far away from where we
are now. I mean, just compare today's resolutions to VGA of a few
years back. But all that's academic. The bottom line is your choice.
The freebie software is horrible. For example, every time
(okay, 9/10 times) you go to save a file after the scan is
completed, it will save the file in the wrong format. It keeps
trying to "phone home" to jpg, no matter what. You type in the
filename, it defaults back to jpeg every single time no matter
what, you save it anyway with tiff selected, one look at the
file size and you know it failed, and you do a save as on top of
it and RE-enter tiff again, and it will take the second time.
Canon sucks to ship crap software like this. It's not making
have a strong desire to rush out and buy any more Canon
hardware, I can tell you that. :-( No desire to spend any
time editing in there at all.

I'm not familiar with Canon scanners but other people have complained
too about the software being pretty bad. On a tangent, my old Canon A1
analog camera was (is) fantastic! :)
I understand that process, basically the same as shooting in RAW
nowadays. I always keep a clean copy.

Exactly! It's the same principle although it's even more important for
digicams because of the so-called "Bayer pattern". The raw digicam
images have 2 green pixels and 1 of each red and blue. The kicker is
they don't overlap so some interpolation is required and there are
many ways to do that. The method used in cameras is usually more
concerned with speed, rather than quality.
The only debate is
whether or not it's worth doing them all at max res. Due to the
aging that is going on with a lot of them, it's just not worth
it at this point for a lot of these. Of course, it may just be
certain batches that are this bad, I won't know for quite a
while. Most are suitable for a video slideshow, but less than a
dozen so far are what you might consider suitable for framing.

There are two things there. One is selecting which ones are worth
keeping and that's your call. The other is scanning and then it's
definitely worth using maximum resolution. Especially if the originals
are bad! That's because you'll be able to pull out and "rescue" much
more if you use maximum resolution and bit depth. This gives you more
elbow room to do some drastic editing and pull every bit out of what's
left.

Of course, there's no point going beyond what's on the film but to
reach that stage you have to go to about 10,000 dpi (if we go by grain
size alone). However, that's over the top and for practical purposes
the meaningful data levels off at around 5000 dpi for film - assuming
top notch film and steady (tripod) shots, etc.
It is stunning to look at, for example, what Las Vegas, the
Grand Canyon or Waikiki beach looked like over 40 years ago.
Wow, what a change. And actual blue skies, instead of haze and
smog. Looking at before and after shots of some of these
locations is enough to make an environmentalist out of almost
anyone. :)

Oh, I know! It's a trip down memory lane. It's also weird how our mind
plays tricks on us. We have a tendency to remember things differently
(it's a known fact) and I've been surprised more than once to find out
how some things are not how I remembered them. The classic is that
everything looked bigger when we were kids, for example. Well, of
course.. :)

Another thing is those really mundane, everyday things we forget. You
know, like... I don't know... some food packaging you see in a corner
of a picture or some other such accidental item which makes you go:
"Oh yeah! I used to love that! Whatever happened to it?"

And as you say, the "progress" as the skyline keeps getting more
crowded.
What's the marketing reference?

The makers of ICE (formerly an independent company but now a part of
Kodak, I believe) wanted to make sure their software was not used on
other scanners. So they made ICE internal to the scanning process.

A much more flexible (and user friendly) way would have been to allow
scanning of all 4 channels (RGB + IR) and then apply ICE afterwards.
That way one could experiment with different settings, or use
different amount of ICE on different parts of the image, etc. Also,
you could fudge it by, say, creating an artificial "IR" channel to
extract those "pepper spots" I mention in the other message and then
let ICE fix them.

The irony is, ICE depends on the existence of the IR channel so any
use outside of, say, Nikon scanner would have been very limited
anyway. Still it was possible and the marketroids panicked.

Don.
 
R

Randy Howard

Don wrote
(in article said:
That's a good plan, too. Once you've narrowed it down, you can have
the winners scanner professionally, if it comes to that.

You have to understand, I was handed boxes and boxes of slides,
that had no sorting or filtering applied to them since they came
back from Kodak 40 years ago. Just stacks of slides, and most
of them shot hand-held, on cameras nowhere near the quality of
modern film cameras. Notable lens flare in some of the shots,
in lighting conditions that wouldn't be considered particularly
'difficult' today. Also, some of the earliest shots in here
(1950s) seem to have been shot with a camera that suffered from
light leaks along the bottom of the film door. It might just be
some common long-term storage failure, but a lot of the slides
have color spikes of red/orange along the bottom edge only, as
if light was let in by the camera. Also, they usually only show
up for frames during or adjacent to brightly lit outdoor shots.
IOW, this isn't exactly a photographer's gold mine I'm working
with.
I just decided to do them all figuring that what's important to me is
not necessarily what's going to be important to people looking at it
in the future. So I just do everything and be done with it. Saves me
agonizing over what to keep and what to toss.

I'm taking them all, but this scanner is literally too slow to
do that for every frame. What is the actual time per slide for
one of the dedicated Nikon slide scanners with the auto-feed
trays, when done at max resolution and color depth? I'm rapidly
coming to the conclusion it may be worth buying yet another
scanner.
I also figure, storage is cheap and these 1000s of today's "huge"
files will probably all fit on a single "future-DVD" with room to
spare.

Storage isn't the issue. I have plenty of that, and it's cheap
to get more. The problem is time. It would take me months,
working 12 hours a day to make it through all of these on this
scanner at max quality.
The thing is manufacturer ratings are notorious for fibbing. There are
ways (the razor edge test) to find out the real resolution which is
often times half that for flatbeds.

Yes, I need to do that test myself today. Good idea.
And believe it or not but 3000x2000 is not that far away from where we
are now. I mean, just compare today's resolutions to VGA of a few
years back. But all that's academic. The bottom line is your choice.

If I could batch scan properly, but I'd be on board with your
idea completely. The problem is, this software is crap, and I
can't do more than three frames at a time in a sequence without
it crashing or giving me runtime errors about running out of
memory. Nevermind that I've watched it carefully during
execution, and it never goes above 1.5GB of RAM in process size,
and I have 4GB installed. Also, I have to manually name each
slide, and fight it over the 'fallback to jpg' problem I
described earlier. Also, about 10% of the time it will write a
zero byte file by mistake and I have to constantly check the
files after saving them to make sure they actually showed up,
and in the proper tiff format. I could go with jpg at 100% to
save some time, but I suspect something is badly wrong there as
well, as it takes a file that is 20MB in tiff and makes a 24kb
jpg out of it. Puhleeze.

My other project for today is to try using VueScan instead and
compare the results.
Exactly! It's the same principle although it's even more important for
digicams because of the so-called "Bayer pattern". The raw digicam
images have 2 green pixels and 1 of each red and blue. The kicker is
they don't overlap so some interpolation is required and there are
many ways to do that. The method used in cameras is usually more
concerned with speed, rather than quality.

I have hope that down the road RAW processing will continue to
improve, and we'll be able to go back to old RAW files and
extract much better data from the same original.
There are two things there. One is selecting which ones are worth
keeping and that's your call. The other is scanning and then it's
definitely worth using maximum resolution. Especially if the originals
are bad! That's because you'll be able to pull out and "rescue" much
more if you use maximum resolution and bit depth. This gives you more
elbow room to do some drastic editing and pull every bit out of what's
left.

Of course, there's no point going beyond what's on the film but to
reach that stage you have to go to about 10,000 dpi (if we go by grain
size alone). However, that's over the top and for practical purposes
the meaningful data levels off at around 5000 dpi for film - assuming
top notch film and steady (tripod) shots, etc.

Another sign of my lack of scanner knowledge, but the marketing
claims on this scanner are "4800x9600dpi". ??? The highest
setting available I can find is 4800. And it crashes trying to
do more than 3 of those at a time. Still, I have no idea where
the 9600 is supposed to come in, or is that some marketing BS
for interpolation of the data?
Another thing is those really mundane, everyday things we forget. You
know, like... I don't know... some food packaging you see in a corner
of a picture or some other such accidental item which makes you go:
"Oh yeah! I used to love that! Whatever happened to it?"

Oh yeah, that keeps happening. The really interesting bit is
that I keep remembering things I didn't realize I knew about
long-dead relatives from these images. Almost creepy how your
mind dredges up things and events long vanished from your
'normal' memory.
And as you say, the "progress" as the skyline keeps getting more
crowded.

True, but I was mostly referring to how blue the sky was back
then compared to today. Even Los Angeles, back in 1962, had a
blue, not gray smog sky. More generally, every outdoor location
seemed to have a MUCH better looking atmosphere than what we
'enjoy' today.
 
R

Randy Howard

Don wrote
(in article said:
The thing is manufacturer ratings are notorious for fibbing. There are
ways (the razor edge test) to find out the real resolution which is
often times half that for flatbeds.

By the way, I have a question about dedicated slide scanners. I
have read that Nikon scanners have problems with color accuracy
on Kodachrome slides. Is that correct? Is there a way around
it? The majority of the slides I have to deal with are
kodachrome. I'd hate to spend $1500 for a Coolscan 5000 w/slide
feeder only to find out it won't handle them.
 
S

Surfer!

In message <[email protected]>, Randy
Howard said:
You have to understand, I was handed boxes and boxes of slides,
that had no sorting or filtering applied to them since they came
back from Kodak 40 years ago. Just stacks of slides, and most
of them shot hand-held, on cameras nowhere near the quality of
modern film cameras. Notable lens flare in some of the shots,
in lighting conditions that wouldn't be considered particularly
'difficult' today. Also, some of the earliest shots in here
(1950s) seem to have been shot with a camera that suffered from
light leaks along the bottom of the film door. It might just be
some common long-term storage failure, but a lot of the slides
have color spikes of red/orange along the bottom edge only, as
if light was let in by the camera. Also, they usually only show
up for frames during or adjacent to brightly lit outdoor shots.
IOW, this isn't exactly a photographer's gold mine I'm working
with.


I'm taking them all, but this scanner is literally too slow to
do that for every frame. What is the actual time per slide for
one of the dedicated Nikon slide scanners with the auto-feed
trays, when done at max resolution and color depth? I'm rapidly
coming to the conclusion it may be worth buying yet another
scanner.
<Snip>

My suggestion to you is that your originals are the archive material,
not the scans of them. I would approach this by scanning at a lesser
depth, but making sure that I can easily find the original for each scan
so I can go back to it. I find it much easier to judge a slide by
viewing it's scan on the screen than by squinting at the slide - I don't
have a projector or viewer. If you use an Nikon LS5000 with the SF-200
or SF-210 batch feeder, and scan at 2000 dpi you should get each box of
40 (or so) slides scanned in an hour. Since as you say a lot of the
originals are pretty gash, I personally can't see the point in doing all
the scanning at max resolution & colour depth. Also, unless you have
Photoshop CS, you will probably find you can't edit 16-bit / channel
images without downstepping to 8 bits/channel - which makes scanning at
16 bits rather redundant IMHO.

The slide feeders are not something you can just walk away from - you
have to keep an eye on them in case they jam. However, given the
problems you are having with doing more than a few on the trot it will
be a great improvement. I did originally have a problem with it not
knowing when to stop feeding slides, but when I reinstalled Windows XP
over Xmas that went away.
 
R

Raphael Bustin

Don wrote


By the way, I have a question about dedicated slide scanners. I
have read that Nikon scanners have problems with color accuracy
on Kodachrome slides. Is that correct? Is there a way around
it? The majority of the slides I have to deal with are
kodachrome. I'd hate to spend $1500 for a Coolscan 5000 w/slide
feeder only to find out it won't handle them.


I've scanned quite a few Kodachromes on my LS-8000.

Be aware that there were several different Kodachrome
formulations over the years.

The earlier versions of dICE were known to be problematic
on Kodachrome, but the newest Nikons come with a version
of dICE that allegedly fixes that.


rafe b
www.terrapinphoto.com
 

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