scan resolution for slide shows

L

lee mcp

Hi All,
I have read all the recently posted questions and answers on resolution,
etc. and
it just confuses me beyond belief but has answered many of my questions.
I have
not seen an answer to one of my questions.

I plan on copying all the family slides and negatives using a Dimage
Scan Elite 5400.
I will save the scans to DVD’s. I plan to create slide shows for use on
the TV
and the computer. What is the best resolution to use when scanning
these slides and negatives?

Thanks for your help

Lee
 
C

CSM1

lee mcp said:
Hi All,
I have read all the recently posted questions and answers on resolution,
etc. and
it just confuses me beyond belief but has answered many of my questions.
I have
not seen an answer to one of my questions.

I plan on copying all the family slides and negatives using a Dimage
Scan Elite 5400.
I will save the scans to DVD’s. I plan to create slide shows for use on
the TV
and the computer. What is the best resolution to use when scanning
these slides and negatives?

Thanks for your help

Lee

The resolution of a Standard TV is 640 X 480.
The maximum resolution of HDTV is 1920 X 1080.
The image ratio for Standard TV is 4:3 or 1.33:1, the same for Computer
screen.
The image ratio for HDTV is 16:9 or 1.77:1.

Computer resolution is what the display is set for, 640 X 480 (very few), or
800 X 600, or 1024 X 768 or maybe 1280 X 960.

DVD players will take a Jpeg image and fit to screen. A image looks better
when reduced that it does when stretched. So a higher resolution is better.

My Dimage Scan Dual IV which is the baby of the Dimage 5400, has a job for
scanning slides and negatives for different TV or Screen resolutions.

Look in your Scanner Manual for the Job file list in the Appendix.
Look under 35mm, Category Screen.
 
R

Robert Feinman

Hi All,
I have read all the recently posted questions and answers on resolution,
etc. and
it just confuses me beyond belief but has answered many of my questions.
I have
not seen an answer to one of my questions.

I plan on copying all the family slides and negatives using a Dimage
Scan Elite 5400.
I will save the scans to DVD=3Fs. I plan to create slide shows for use on
the TV
and the computer. What is the best resolution to use when scanning
these slides and negatives?

Thanks for your help

Lee
You want your final image to be about 600-800 pixels high. So you
can figure it out from that.
Are you sure you will never want a better quality copy, say for printing
an enlargement?
Go to scantips.com for a nice discussion.
 
K

Kennedy McEwen

I plan on copying all the family slides and negatives using a Dimage
Scan Elite 5400.
I will save the scans to DVD’s. I plan to create slide shows for use
on the TV
and the computer. What is the best resolution to use when scanning
these slides and negatives?
Do it in steps is the best solution.

The first step is to scan the image at the native resolution of the
scanner. This almost certainly (unless you happen to have a computer
display designed for air traffic control!) well above the resolution
that your final output will need, but it provides you with a couple of
significant advantages.

The first is a "future proof" original scan - so in the future when you
change your TV to a flash new flat panel device, or your computer to a
display that is only available at the moment to ATC operators, you won't
have to scan all of those images again.

The second, and almost as important, though you probably don't
appreciate how much at the moment, is that you end result will be far
superior to scanning at the resolution that your output needs. This is
all to do with how you downsample the image to the output resolution and
the effect that the various downsampling algorithms have on image
quality. Implementing downsampling in the scanner itself probably means
using "nearest neighbour" resampling - which is technical speak for
throwing away all of the extra samples. At best you might get linear
interpolation, which means taking some account, on a linear weighting,
of all of the samples close to the output of each sample. However there
are many alternatives each offering a particular advantage, whether lack
of moiré from aliasing or sharper edges or whatever.

Of course, if you follow the advice then the first advantage offers
benefits to the second - you can try the different options out on your
original equipment.

You can find the end resolution for your computer system just by looking
at the display properties. For TV it really depends on what your
equipment is. In the US and its territories, as well as Japan, the TV
resolution is 640 x 486 pixels. In Europe and most of its territories
the resolution is 768 x 575 pixels. But that isn't necessarily the best
resolution to display on your particular screen. If you have a new
plasma or LCD TV then you should look at the user manual to determine
the native resolution of that unit and use that for your images -
especially if you are sending them to the screen directly from the
computer. If you are recording to DVD as a video stream then the
intrinsic horizontal resolution will be 720 pixels, irrespective of the
video standard - with 486 or 576 vertical pixels (these aren't square
pixels on the video system so the image will look squashed horizontally
on the computer!). Then, do you want your scans to display in a couple
of years time when HDTV has taken the world by storm? And which HDTV
standard will that be? The interlaced 1080line standard proposed for
the US and its territories or the progressive 720line standard proposed
by the European Broadcasting Union for its?

I am sure that you think you have asked a simple question but the answer
really depends on the equipment you have and it will not be the best
answer at all in a couple of years time, irrespective of the equipment
you have now.

So you will get a lot of replies, some right some not so right - because
there really isn't a right answer. That is why the best answer for your
requirement is to scan at the capabilities of the equipment you have -
and the Minolta is almost as good as the film itself! Then create your
application slideshow to fit whatever standard you happen to need at any
time in the future.

You can be fairly confident of being cold in your grave before TV ever
gets close to the capabilities of the scanner you are proposing to use,
so the limitations of your scanner should not enter into your
considerations.
 
J

JM Remacle

Kennedy McEwen a écrit :
Do it in steps is the best solution.

The first step is to scan the image at the native resolution of the
scanner. This almost certainly (unless you happen to have a computer
display designed for air traffic control!) well above the resolution
that your final output will need, but it provides you with a couple of
significant advantages.

The first is a "future proof" original scan - so in the future when you
change your TV to a flash new flat panel device, or your computer to a
display that is only available at the moment to ATC operators, you won't
have to scan all of those images again.

The second, and almost as important, though you probably don't
appreciate how much at the moment, is that you end result will be far
superior to scanning at the resolution that your output needs. This is
all to do with how you downsample the image to the output resolution and
the effect that the various downsampling algorithms have on image
quality. Implementing downsampling in the scanner itself probably means
using "nearest neighbour" resampling - which is technical speak for
throwing away all of the extra samples. At best you might get linear
interpolation, which means taking some account, on a linear weighting,
of all of the samples close to the output of each sample. However there
are many alternatives each offering a particular advantage, whether lack
of moiré from aliasing or sharper edges or whatever.

Of course, if you follow the advice then the first advantage offers
benefits to the second - you can try the different options out on your
original equipment.

You can find the end resolution for your computer system just by looking
at the display properties. For TV it really depends on what your
equipment is. In the US and its territories, as well as Japan, the TV
resolution is 640 x 486 pixels. In Europe and most of its territories
the resolution is 768 x 575 pixels. But that isn't necessarily the best
resolution to display on your particular screen. If you have a new
plasma or LCD TV then you should look at the user manual to determine
the native resolution of that unit and use that for your images -
especially if you are sending them to the screen directly from the
computer. If you are recording to DVD as a video stream then the
intrinsic horizontal resolution will be 720 pixels, irrespective of the
video standard - with 486 or 576 vertical pixels (these aren't square
pixels on the video system so the image will look squashed horizontally
on the computer!). Then, do you want your scans to display in a couple
of years time when HDTV has taken the world by storm? And which HDTV
standard will that be? The interlaced 1080line standard proposed for
the US and its territories or the progressive 720line standard proposed
by the European Broadcasting Union for its?

I am sure that you think you have asked a simple question but the answer
really depends on the equipment you have and it will not be the best
answer at all in a couple of years time, irrespective of the equipment
you have now.

So you will get a lot of replies, some right some not so right - because
there really isn't a right answer. That is why the best answer for your
requirement is to scan at the capabilities of the equipment you have -
and the Minolta is almost as good as the film itself! Then create your
application slideshow to fit whatever standard you happen to need at any
time in the future.

You can be fairly confident of being cold in your grave before TV ever
gets close to the capabilities of the scanner you are proposing to use,
so the limitations of your scanner should not enter into your
considerations.
I read your post carefully because i also plan to scan hundreds if not
thousands of negatives, slides...and i agree with your point of view
although i do not completely understand some of the technical terms but
there is a problem : the size of these images scanned; what do you mean
with native resolution? Is it maximum resolution ?
I have an epson 2400, i already made trials on my 4:3 tv and the results
(768X576) are satisfactory in jpeg but i also made scans in tiff:
what must be the specifications of these tiff scans ?
My jpeg files are made from the tiffs.
The max resolution of my scanner is 2400 at 48 bits.
I understand that tv will evolve and i would not remake all the job if i
buy a new tv...
My aim is mainly tv, may be sometimes prints at maximum 8X12 (20X30cms)
Thank you for your tips.
Jean-Marie
 
B

Bart van der Wolf

SNIP
the size of these images scanned; what do you mean with native
resolution? Is it maximum resolution ?

The optical resolution that the scanner was 'born' with, so before any
software interpolation to change that resolution. The maximum
resolution indicated in the sales brochure may be interpolated
resolution, and would thus not be native/optical.
I have an epson 2400,
SNIP

That would mean 2400ppi native resolution. The scanner takes 2400
samples per inch.

Bart
 
K

Kennedy McEwen

JM said:
I read your post carefully because i also plan to scan hundreds if not
thousands of negatives, slides...and i agree with your point of view
although i do not completely understand some of the technical terms but
there is a problem : the size of these images scanned; what do you mean
with native resolution? Is it maximum resolution ?

As Bart mentioned, it is usually quoted as the "optical resolution" of
the scanner. In the case of your Epson, it is 2400ppi.
I have an epson 2400, i already made trials on my 4:3 tv and the
results (768X576) are satisfactory in jpeg but i also made scans in
tiff:
what must be the specifications of these tiff scans ?

I am not sure what you mean by this question. Tiff is generally a
lossless compression format, so the full image information is
recoverable. Save the original scan in tiff format and then create
everything you want from that.
My jpeg files are made from the tiffs.
Exactly.

The max resolution of my scanner is 2400 at 48 bits.

This is your scanner's native resolution. You should be able to reduce
the bit depth to 24-bits, after optimising the levels of the image, if
file size is a problem.
I understand that tv will evolve and i would not remake all the job if
i buy a new tv...
My aim is mainly tv, may be sometimes prints at maximum 8X12 (20X30cms)
Thank you for your tips.

Prints require a lot more resolution than TV or computer displays. A
high quality print will require about 300ppi, so a 12x8inch print will
have about 2400x3600pixels - around the full resolution that your
scanner can recover from a 35mm frame. So the best advice is to save
the tiffs at full resolution, which can be used to make 12x8" prints
directly, and then create your jpegs for the TV display by downsampling
this high resolution original. One thing is sure, you won't get a very
good 12x8" print from an image with only 768x576 pixels.
 
L

lee mcp

CSM1 said:
The resolution of a Standard TV is 640 X 480.
The maximum resolution of HDTV is 1920 X 1080.
The image ratio for Standard TV is 4:3 or 1.33:1, the same for Computer
screen.
The image ratio for HDTV is 16:9 or 1.77:1.

Ratio’s confuses me.
Computer resolution is what the display is set for, 640 X 480 (very few), or
800 X 600, or 1024 X 768 or maybe 1280 X 960.

DVD players will take a Jpeg image and fit to screen. A image looks better
when reduced that it does when stretched. So a higher resolution is better.

My Dimage Scan Dual IV which is the baby of the Dimage 5400, has a job for
scanning slides and negatives for different TV or Screen resolutions.

Look in your Scanner Manual for the Job file list in the Appendix.
Look under 35mm, Category Screen.
Thank You. I had looked at that Job list but
didn’t realize that Screen meant TV or computer
screen.

At the bottom of that Job list is FilmRecorder.
What is that? Are these the minimum or maximum
settings we should aim for?

If I understand you (and the other people who
answered my question) correctly, scanning for an
8x10 photograph would cover using resulting photo
on DVD/TV and computer in a slide show..

Now for another question. My DVD Player won’t read
the DVD I created on this computer.
Today someone told me that I have to “finalize“
the DVD before it will play on DVD/TV. How would I
go about this using a Macintosh and Toast 6?

Lee
 
C

CSM1

lee mcp said:
Ratio’s confuses me.

A ratio is the horizontal dimension divided by the vertical dimension.
Or width divided by height.

On your Standard TV or computer monitor, the screen is a ratio of 4 units
wide by 3 units high. You can measure that with a tape measure. My 17'
(measured diagonally) monitor is 13" wide by 10" high. So 13"/10"=1.3 also
4/3=1.33. The ratio is 1.33:1 We convert to a even fraction for humans.
Thank You. I had looked at that Job list but didn’t realize that Screen
meant TV or computer screen.

At the bottom of that Job list is FilmRecorder. What is that? Are these
the minimum or maximum settings we should aim for?

A FilmRecorder is a device that takes a digital image and makes a Slide or
Negative on film by a laser "writing" onto the film. To get the most for a
filmrecorder you would scan at the maximum resolution of the scanner to get
all you can get from the image.
If I understand you (and the other people who answered my question)
correctly, scanning for an 8x10 photograph would cover using resulting
photo on DVD/TV and computer in a slide show..

The answer is....Maybe.
The larger the file size, the longer it takes for the image to be displayed
on the TV.
If the image is not the correct size for the TV, the player has to
interpolate the image if the player resizes.
Now for another question. My DVD Player won’t read the DVD I created on
this computer.
Today someone told me that I have to “finalize“ the DVD before it will
play on DVD/TV. How would I go about this using a Macintosh and Toast 6?

Lee

DVD or CDR?

I do not have a Mac so I am not knowledgeable about software on the Mac.
In my CD burner Software (Nero Burning ROM) there is a choice to make a
Video-CD.
Check help in your CD/DVD burner for making a Video CD or Video DVD if your
burner works for DVD.

Not all DVD players can play CDRs. And not all DVD players will play a Jpeg
slide show.
Check the manual for your DVD player.
 
C

CSM1

CSM1 said:
A ratio is the horizontal dimension divided by the vertical dimension.
Or width divided by height.

On your Standard TV or computer monitor, the screen is a ratio of 4 units
wide by 3 units high. You can measure that with a tape measure. My 17'
(measured diagonally) monitor is 13" wide by 10" high. So 13"/10"=1.3 also
4/3=1.33. The ratio is 1.33:1 We convert to a even fraction for humans.

17 inch not 17 foot monitor.
 
J

JM Remacle

Kennedy McEwen a écrit :
As Bart mentioned, it is usually quoted as the "optical resolution" of
the scanner. In the case of your Epson, it is 2400ppi.



I am not sure what you mean by this question. Tiff is generally a
lossless compression format, so the full image information is
recoverable. Save the original scan in tiff format and then create
everything you want from that.



This is your scanner's native resolution. You should be able to reduce
the bit depth to 24-bits, after optimising the levels of the image, if
file size is a problem.



Prints require a lot more resolution than TV or computer displays. A
high quality print will require about 300ppi, so a 12x8inch print will
have about 2400x3600pixels - around the full resolution that your
scanner can recover from a 35mm frame. So the best advice is to save
the tiffs at full resolution, which can be used to make 12x8" prints
directly, and then create your jpegs for the TV display by downsampling
this high resolution original. One thing is sure, you won't get a very
good 12x8" print from an image with only 768x576 pixels.
Thank you for your answers. they match and confirm what i perceived and
planned to do:
1-a scan at high resolution for archive purposes.
2-afterwards i work on these scans to produce jpeg files accepted on my
home dvd player. in the meantime i hope to get some more skill in that
domain.

Jean-Marie
 
K

Kennedy McEwen

JM said:
Thank you for your answers. they match and confirm what i perceived and
planned to do:
1-a scan at high resolution for archive purposes.
2-afterwards i work on these scans to produce jpeg files accepted on my
home dvd player. in the meantime i hope to get some more skill in that
domain.
Just remember it is a steep learning curve that never ever flattens out.
So you can expect to rework some of you earliest DVDs after you have
more experience and learned the things that make your pictures have that
extra sparkle - even if you are the only person that recognises and
appreciates it! ;-)
 
D

Don

Just remember it is a steep learning curve that never ever flattens out.

Not only does the curve remain steep it gets steeper!! :-(
So you can expect to rework some of you earliest DVDs after you have
more experience and learned the things that make your pictures have that
extra sparkle - even if you are the only person that recognises and
appreciates it! ;-)

Yeah... Some of us do like to flagellate the deceased equine... ;o)

Don.
 
D

David Morrison

Now for another question. My DVD Player won’t read the DVD I created on
If this is the problem, then select Recorder Settings from the recorder
menu. Click on the Advanced Tab. Click the radio button (small circle)
next to Write Disc. "Write Session" leaves the disk unfinalised, so you
can add extra sessions to the disk if you wish. Not many things can
recognise multiple sessions however.

David
 

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