SATA vs PATA: in external case

[Z Man]

I need to add 500GB of external storage to my system. I am considering
(amongst others) the Hitachi 7K500 drive, which is available in either SATA
or PATA. The SATA would appear to be the faster drive, based upon the specs,
including the fact that the SATA version has a 16MB cache while the PATA has
an 8MB cache. However, I am not clear as to whether the SATA would yield any
advantage when placed in an external case. (The case would be at last USB2,
and might also include Firewire 400/800.) Would placing the SATA drive in an
external case negate the apparent advantage it enjoys over the PATA, or
would the SATA still be faster?

 

[Rod Speed]

I need to add 500GB of external storage to my system. I am considering
(amongst others) the Hitachi 7K500 drive, which is available in either
SATA or PATA. The SATA would appear to be the faster drive, based upon
the specs, including the fact that the SATA version has a 16MB cache
while the PATA has an 8MB cache.

Thats an illusion, you wouldnt be able to pick it in
a double blind test without running a benchmark.

However, I am not clear as to whether the SATA would yield any advantage
when placed in an external case. (The case would be at last USB2, and
might also include Firewire 400/800.) Would placing the SATA drive in an
external case negate the apparent advantage it enjoys over the PATA, or
would the SATA still be faster?

Again, you wouldnt be able to pick it.

You would if the external case used SATA over the cable to the PC.

 

[Z Man]

Thats an illusion, you wouldnt be able to pick it in
a double blind test without running a benchmark.


Again, you wouldnt be able to pick it.

You would if the external case used SATA over the cable to the PC.

That wouldn't be practical for me, as I need to be able to use this external
drive on several PC's, most of which don't have SATA capability.

 

[J. Clarke]

I need to add 500GB of external storage to my system. I am considering
(amongst others) the Hitachi 7K500 drive, which is available in either
SATA or PATA. The SATA would appear to be the faster drive, based upon the
specs, including the fact that the SATA version has a 16MB cache while the
PATA has an 8MB cache. However, I am not clear as to whether the SATA
would yield any advantage when placed in an external case. (The case would
be at last USB2, and might also include Firewire 400/800.) Would placing
the SATA drive in an external case negate the apparent advantage it enjoys
over the PATA, or would the SATA still be faster?

Why not put it in an SATA external case?

 

[dannysdailys]

Z Manwrote
I need to add 500GB of external storage to my system. I a
considering

(amongst others) the Hitachi 7K500 drive, which is available i either SATA
or PATA. The SATA would appear to be the faster drive, based upo the specs,
including the fact that the SATA version has a 16MB cache while th PATA has
an 8MB cache. However, I am not clear as to whether the SATA woul yield any
advantage when placed in an external case. (The case would be a last USB2,
and might also include Firewire 400/800.) Would placing the SAT drive in an
external case negate the apparent advantage it enjoys over the PATA or
would the SATA still be faster

No, you're all making the wrong argument. It doesn't matter the spee
of the drives, the bottleneck is going to be the USB-2 port. The por
will only run at 480m/bits and a serial drive runs at least a
1.5g/bits. That's with a "G.

You may want to go small and go with a 2 1/2 inch notebook enclosure.
I'd recommend that if you can. The small form factor easily travel
anywhere you do and you don't need a separate power plug. It get'
it power from the USB port

Because USB-2 is so slow, the reduced performance of a notebook driv
will be of no consequence

Don't go with a stamp drive however. Their platters are so small
they're slow because they're slow

The only way you can achive real speed in an external enclosure is t
have a rear SATA port on board the mobo. You know, back where th
printer port would be. There are mobo's that have this natively

You can't use a PCI card/ adapter as you won't get the speed

And remember, if you go that route, native SATA, you won't be able t
use the enclosure on anyone else's computer because they won't hav
it

So, if it's USB-2, or Firewire for that matter; it doesn't matter wha
you use

Hope this help

 

[Rod Speed]

No, you're all making the wrong argument.

Nope, you are, as always.

It doesn't matter the speed of the drives,
the bottleneck is going to be the USB-2 port.

I said that.

The port will only run at 480m/bits and a serial
drive runs at least at 1.5g/bits. That's with a "G."

Not a ****ing clue, as always. The sata speed is completely
irrelevant. Its what the physical drive can do that matters.

You may want to go small and go with a 2 1/2 inch notebook
enclosure. I'd recommend that if you can. The small form
factor easily travels anywhere you do and you don't need
a separate power plug. It get's it power from the USB port.

And costs quite a bit more $/GB and
have fun finding one that will do 500G too.

Because USB-2 is so slow, the reduced performance
of a notebook drive will be of no consequence.

Don't go with a stamp drive however. Their
platters are so small, they're slow because they're slow.

The only way you can achive real speed in an external enclosure is
to have a rear SATA port on board the mobo. You know, back where
the printer port would be. There are mobo's that have this natively.

You can't use a PCI card/ adapter as you won't get the speed.

More pig ignorant drivel.

And remember, if you go that route, native SATA, you won't be able to
use the enclosure on anyone else's computer because they won't have it.

What he said himself, stupid.

So, if it's USB-2, or Firewire for that matter;
it doesn't matter what you use.

Hope this helps

You never ever do. Have fun finding a 500G 2.5" drive.

 

[dannysdailys]

Rod Speedwrote:

Z Manwrote

I need to add 500GB of external storage to my system. I am considering
(amongst others) the Hitachi 7K500 drive, which is available in
either SATA or PATA. The SATA would appear to be the faster drive,
based upon the specs, including the fact that the SATA version has a
16MB cache while the PATA has an 8MB cache. However, I am not clear
as to whether the SATA would yield any advantage when placed in an
external case. (The case would be at last USB2, and might also
include Firewire 400/800.) Would placing the SATA drive in an
external case negate the apparent advantage it enjoys over the PATA,
or would the SATA still be faster?

No, you're all making the wrong argument.

Nope, you are, as always.

It doesn't matter the speed of the drives,
the bottleneck is going to be the USB-2 port.

I said that.

The port will only run at 480m/bits and a serial
drive runs at least at 1.5g/bits. That's with a "G."

Not a *** clue, as always. The sata speed is completely
irrelevant. Its what the physical drive can do that matters.

You may want to go small and go with a 2 1/2 inch notebook
enclosure. I'd recommend that if you can. The small form
factor easily travels anywhere you do and you don't need
a separate power plug. It get's it power from the USB port.

And costs quite a bit more $/GB and
have fun finding one that will do 500G too.

Because USB-2 is so slow, the reduced performance
of a notebook drive will be of no consequence.

Don't go with a stamp drive however. Their
platters are so small, they're slow because they're slow.

The only way you can achive real speed in an external enclosure is
to have a rear SATA port on board the mobo. You know, back where
the printer port would be. There are mobo's that have this natively.

You can't use a PCI card/ adapter as you won't get the speed.

More pig ignorant drivel.

And remember, if you go that route, native SATA, you won't be able to
use the enclosure on anyone else's computer because they won't have it.

What he said himself, stupid.

So, if it's USB-2, or Firewire for that matter;
it doesn't matter what you use.

Hope this helps

You never ever do. Have fun finding a 500G 2.5"
drive.[/quote:c8d1dde556]

Why do you do that? Does that make you feel relevant? Just posting
something like this proves your not.

Gosh

Hard drives and RAID arrays are my life! Are you saying the USB
connection isn't relevant to hard drive speed on the very same
connection?? There isn't one made that can keep up with a drive.
Why do you do that?

Why do you think there is such an enclosure including native SATA and
USB-2??

Why don't you do more reading and less talking? Perhaps something
might be more becoming about you...

I stand by my post, not just in theory, but in practice. I've seen
the same music files that take a minute 10 on any USB-2 port, take
less then 10 seconds on a direct SATA connection.

And yes, you won't find a 500g notebook drive. But, maybe he doesn't
really need that much. Maybe he needs two smaller ones. Or, maybe
he's just talking and doesn't need one at all. What do you know?

I have two, and I wouldn't trade them. Mwave has very reasonable
prices on both enclosures and hard drives.

Grow up!

I'm just trying to help the guy, and you're being a jerk. When did
these treads turn to that?

 

[Beemer Biker]

I need to add 500GB of external storage to my system. I am considering
(amongst others) the Hitachi 7K500 drive, which is available in either SATA
or PATA. The SATA would appear to be the faster drive, based upon the
specs, including the fact that the SATA version has a 16MB cache while the
PATA has an 8MB cache. However, I am not clear as to whether the SATA would
yield any advantage when placed in an external case. (The case would be at
last USB2, and might also include Firewire 400/800.) Would placing the SATA
drive in an external case negate the apparent advantage it enjoys over the
PATA, or would the SATA still be faster?

Since you are mentioning premium stuff, you might want to just get the SATA.
You can use it internally later and the thin cable is a plus for cooling.

I have had bad luck with Firewire 800. Got two different boards, both 64
bit. They never ran at 800, I should have googled around before buying as
Microsoft does not support it. They actually ran at 100. This seems to be
a problem with Windows XP SP2.

I currently have two rosewood 400/800/USB2 external boxes one is was
oxford 922 the other was 911+ProLific2507 even though I ordered them only a
month apart. Both of them have burned out 400 firewire, a result of
connecting to a computer that was improperly wired. Even before the 400
speed part burned out, they ran extremely hot. You could not touch the
chips. Unless you got a mac I would stay away from any firewire. Get the
SATA and USB combo box.

Also, be aware that you can run into trouble with USB 1.1 computer and a 2.0
external box. One of the rosewoods had the new style USB2 connector
(narrow) and I would get a corrupted directory on 1.1 but the directory
would be o.k. on a 2.0 . The other rosewood had the old style but still 2.0
and I did not have that problem.

You can read more about firewire problems here
http://www.bustrace.com/delayedwrite/ and a couple of my posts are there
dated dec 2004.

Firewire is nice if you want to connect a couple of XP's together in a small
lan as m$oft supports 1394 lan (at 100 speed). Otherwise if you dont have a
mac then you dont need it.

my 2c

....HTH...


--
=======================================================================
Beemer Biker (e-mail address removed)
http://ResearchRiders.org Ask about my 99'R1100RT
http://TipsForTheComputingImpaired.com
=======================================================================

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speedwrote:

Z Manwrote

I need to add 500GB of external storage to my system. I am
considering (amongst others) the Hitachi 7K500 drive, which is
available in either SATA or PATA. The SATA would appear to be the
faster drive, based upon the specs, including the fact that the SATA
version has a 16MB cache while the PATA has an 8MB cache. However, I
am not clear as to whether the SATA would yield any advantage when
placed in an external case. (The case would be at last USB2, and
might also include Firewire 400/800.) Would placing the SATA drive
in an external case negate the apparent advantage it enjoys over the
PATA, or would the SATA still be faster?

No, you're all making the wrong argument.

Nope, you are, as always.

It doesn't matter the speed of the drives,
the bottleneck is going to be the USB-2 port.

I said that.

The port will only run at 480m/bits and a serial
drive runs at least at 1.5g/bits. That's with a "G."

Not a *** clue, as always. The sata speed is completely
irrelevant. Its what the physical drive can do that matters.

You may want to go small and go with a 2 1/2 inch notebook
enclosure. I'd recommend that if you can. The small form
factor easily travels anywhere you do and you don't need
a separate power plug. It get's it power from the USB port.

And costs quite a bit more $/GB and
have fun finding one that will do 500G too.

Because USB-2 is so slow, the reduced performance
of a notebook drive will be of no consequence.

Don't go with a stamp drive however. Their
platters are so small, they're slow because they're slow.

The only way you can achive real speed in an external enclosure is
to have a rear SATA port on board the mobo. You know, back where
the printer port would be. There are mobo's that have this natively.

You can't use a PCI card/ adapter as you won't get the speed.

More pig ignorant drivel.

And remember, if you go that route, native SATA, you won't be able to
use the enclosure on anyone else's computer because they won't have
it.

What he said himself, stupid.

So, if it's USB-2, or Firewire for that matter;
it doesn't matter what you use.

Hope this helps

You never ever do. Have fun finding a 500G 2.5"
drive.[/quote:c8d1dde556]

Cant even manage to quote properly.

Why do you do that? Does that make you feel relevant?
Just posting something like this proves your not.

We'll see...

Gosh

Is that anything like Golly Gosh ?

Hard drives and RAID arrays are my life!

Not a shred of evidence that you actually
have a life, or a clue about hard drives either.

Are you saying the USB connection isn't relevant
to hard drive speed on the very same connection??

Nope, never ever said anything even
remotely resembling anything like that.

There isn't one made that can keep up with a drive.

Wrong, as always.

Why do you do that?

Why do you spend so much time with your dick in your hand, child ?

Dont answer that, the reason is obvious.

Why do you think there is such an enclosure
including native SATA and USB-2??

Irrelevant to your stupid pig ignorant claims above.

Why don't you do more reading and less talking?

Why dont you go and **** yourself, again ?

Perhaps something might be more becoming about you...

Cant even manage a viable sentence, or anything else at all, either.

I stand by my post,

You can stand anywhere you like child, including on your head if you like.

not just in theory, but in practice.

You wouldnt know what either was if it bit you on your lard arse, child.

I've seen the same music files that take a minute 10 on any USB-2
port, take less then 10 seconds on a direct SATA connection.

And even someone as stupid as you should have noticed that
that cant be due to the difference in the interface speeds, child.

And yes, you won't find a 500g notebook drive. But, maybe he doesn't
really need that much. Maybe he needs two smaller ones. Or, maybe
he's just talking and doesn't need one at all. What do you know?

Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.

I have two, and I wouldn't trade them.

You have always been, and always will be, completely
and utterly irrelevant. What you might or might not
claim to have, or will trade in spades.

Mwave has very reasonable prices on both enclosures and hard drives.

Not on 500G 2.5" drives they dont, child.

Grow up!

Let go of your dick before you end up completely blind, child.

I'm just trying to help the guy,

But failing dismally since you dont actually have a ****ing clue.

and you're being a jerk.

Can be irritating having your nose rubbed in your pig ignorant stupiditys,
eh child ?

When did these treads turn to that?

When you showed up.

 

[ggull]

I have had bad luck with Firewire 800. Got two different boards, both 64
bit. They never ran at 800, I should have googled around before buying as
Microsoft does not support it. They actually ran at 100. This seems to
be a problem with Windows XP SP2.

There does seem to be (i.e., I haven't tested it) fix for this.
Jonny, on another thread, posted this in reply to my firewire problem:

" 100/400/800 speed noted in this KB article specifically for XP SP2 use.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/885222/en-us "

(This wasn't what I was having trouble with, so didn't implement it.)

 

[Neill Massello]

I need to add 500GB of external storage to my system. I am considering
(amongst others) the Hitachi 7K500 drive, which is available in either SATA
or PATA. The SATA would appear to be the faster drive, based upon the specs,
including the fact that the SATA version has a 16MB cache while the PATA has
an 8MB cache. However, I am not clear as to whether the SATA would yield any
advantage when placed in an external case. (The case would be at last USB2,
and might also include Firewire 400/800.) Would placing the SATA drive in an
external case negate the apparent advantage it enjoys over the PATA, or
would the SATA still be faster?

You should also consider a pair of 250GB ATA drives in a striped RAID
FireWire 800 enclosure. Owing to the large-drive premium, this solution
would actually cost less than a single 500GB SATA drive in an external
enclosure. The T7K250's actual drive performance specs are as good as
the 7K500's; so speed differences would come down to RAID versus
non-RAID and FW800 versus SATA. I suspect the difference would be small,
perhaps favoring the FireWire RAID.

<http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/t7k250/t7k250.htm>

<http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/7k500/7k500.htm>

 

[Neill Massello]

That wouldn't be practical for me, as I need to be able to use this external
drive on several PC's, most of which don't have SATA capability.

Then the question of SATA versus ATA drive is really irrelevant, as the
limiting factors will be and the external interface (USB or FireWire)
rather than the interface between the drive and the bridge.

First you need to specify your must-have external interface and then
start looking for enclosures. You'll find a much wider choice among ATA
drive enclosures than among those that take SATA drives.

 

[Arno Wagner]

I need to add 500GB of external storage to my system. I am considering
(amongst others) the Hitachi 7K500 drive, which is available in either SATA
or PATA. The SATA would appear to be the faster drive, based upon the specs,
including the fact that the SATA version has a 16MB cache while the PATA has
an 8MB cache. However, I am not clear as to whether the SATA would yield any
advantage when placed in an external case. (The case would be at last USB2,
and might also include Firewire 400/800.) Would placing the SATA drive in an
external case negate the apparent advantage it enjoys over the PATA, or
would the SATA still be faster?

I first would doubt that the SATA version is significantly faster than
the PATA one. DIsk buffer/cache is as good as irrelevant with modern
OSes. Second: Have you seen any external USB cases for SATA drives?
I have not.

Arno

 

[J. Clarke]

I first would doubt that the SATA version is significantly faster than
the PATA one. DIsk buffer/cache is as good as irrelevant with modern
OSes. Second: Have you seen any external USB cases for SATA drives?
I have not.

Did you actually _look_? There are numerous such products available.

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Have you seen any external USB cases for SATA drives?

Kingwin makes them, and they have a fan and power
supply:
This is for either USB 2.0 interface or SATA interface:
http://www.kingwin.com/pdut_detail.asp?LineID=&CateID=52&ID=266

This is for USB 2.0 interface:
http://www.kingwin.com/pdut_detail.asp?LineID=&CateID=52&ID=265

*TimDaniels*

 

[Timothy Daniels]

I need to be able to use this external drive on several PC's,
most of which don't have SATA capability.

If the PCs each have a spare 5 1/2" bay, you can use
what are variously called "disk caddies", "removeable trays"
or "mobile racks". Kingwin makes an extensive line of
"mobile racks" which allow you to slide an internal SATA
drive into the rack that is installed in any of the PCs.

Here are the ones for PATA:
http://www.kingwin.com/pdut_Cat.asp?CateID=25

Here are the ones for SATA:
http://www.kingwin.com/pdut_Cat.asp?CateID=47

*TimDaniels*

 

[Beemer Biker]

Arno Wagner wrote:
SNIP


Did you actually _look_? There are numerous such products available.

That kinda depends on your location. According to his header, Arno is
running the Polish version of agent and on a Linux platform. I think he can
be excused for now knowing that.


--
=======================================================================
Beemer Biker (e-mail address removed)
http://ResearchRiders.org Ask about my 99'R1100RT
http://TipsForTheComputingImpaired.com
=======================================================================

 

[Timothy Daniels]

First you need to specify your must-have external interface and then
start looking for enclosures. You'll find a much wider choice among
ATA drive enclosures than among those that take SATA drives.

Kingwin makes both, and they have a fan and power supply:

This is for either USB 2.0 interface or SATA interface:
http://www.kingwin.com/pdut_detail.asp?LineID=&CateID=52&ID=266

This is for USB 2.0 interface:
http://www.kingwin.com/pdut_detail.asp?LineID=&CateID=52&ID=265

*TimDaniels*

 

[Timothy Daniels]

That kinda depends on your location. According to his header, Arno is
running the Polish version of agent and on a Linux platform. I think he can
be excused for now knowing that.

External USB HD enclosures are all over the Internet.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Arno Wagner]

Arno Wagner wrote:

Did you actually _look_? There are numerous such products available.

For about a week. None available in Swizerland or Gemany that I could
find. It was about three monts ago, so there may be new products out
now.

Arno