SATA vs ATA?

S

Steven C. Liu

I'm thinking of installing a second internal EIDE hard disk to my new Dell
Dimension 2400. What's the difference between SATA and ATA? I am
considering the WD2500JB and the WD2500JD drives. The 250GB SATA-133 drive
seems like much better value than the 250GB DMA/ATA-100 one, but I am
concerned about compatibility issues with the SATA technology. What exactly
is SATA, and what are my issues? I'm asking also because I read in another
thread here about a system with a newly installed 250GB SATA drive only
being able to see about 1/2 of the available capacity.

Thanks,

Steve
 
D

D.Currie

Steven C. Liu said:
I'm thinking of installing a second internal EIDE hard disk to my new Dell
Dimension 2400. What's the difference between SATA and ATA? I am
considering the WD2500JB and the WD2500JD drives. The 250GB SATA-133 drive
seems like much better value than the 250GB DMA/ATA-100 one, but I am
concerned about compatibility issues with the SATA technology. What exactly
is SATA, and what are my issues? I'm asking also because I read in another
thread here about a system with a newly installed 250GB SATA drive only
being able to see about 1/2 of the available capacity.

Thanks,

Steve
If you don't have a serial ATA controller built into the motherboard, you'll
have to buy a controller card for it. Once you figure in the price for that,
it might not be such a bargain.
 
P

Paul Russell

There is no capacity limits on these newer drives really if your mother
board support 48bit LBA addressing. if your system does not, generally
these large drives come with a controller card which will allow you to use
it. Also you must have SP1 for XP installed to effectively use disks larger
than137 gb.
 
S

Steven C. Liu

Thanks, everyone, for the responses so far.

How do I know if I have SP1 installed? I get regular patch updates (via
Windows Update) to my computer, so I assume that I am current and have SP1.
Is that a bad assumption?

Thanks,

Steve
 
D

David Hollway

Steven C. Liu said:
I'm thinking of installing a second internal EIDE hard disk to my new Dell
Dimension 2400. What's the difference between SATA and ATA? I am
considering the WD2500JB and the WD2500JD drives. The 250GB SATA-133 drive
seems like much better value than the 250GB DMA/ATA-100 one, but I am
concerned about compatibility issues with the SATA technology. What exactly
is SATA, and what are my issues? I'm asking also because I read in another
thread here about a system with a newly installed 250GB SATA drive only
being able to see about 1/2 of the available capacity.

Steven,

Compared to ATA/100 ("Parallel ATA") Serial ATA uses a completely different
data signalling system, using serial data transmission to allow higher data
rates. The Parallel signalling system used by traditional ATA interfaces
has reached its practical speed limit at ATA/133; it's not possible to
reliably push data any faster over the 40 parallel data tracks used by that
interface.
As a result, Serial ATA uses a different cable type for both power and data.
The data cables are much smaller and thinner, because they have a lower pin
count. The advantages of this are:

-For the chipset designer: S-ATA uses a lower signalling voltage, hence no
need to accomodate legacy 5V signalling in the IDE controller, something
that has become more of an issue as chipset voltages trend lower.

-For the motherboard designer: far fewer tracks to route between the IDE
controller and the connector. Less space is taken up by S-ATA, leaving more
room on the board for other features.

-For the system builder: smaller cables mean better airflow through the
chassis, leading to better cooling. The redesigned connectors are less
liable to being plugged in the wrong way, aiding manufacturability. Also, as
S-ATA only has one drive per cable, there are no master/slave jumpers to
worry about.

-For the user: the cooling/airflow benefits mentioned above, plus
theoretically better performance - first-generation S-ATA offers 150MB/s of
bandwidth per channel ("S-ATA/150"). This is only theoretical, however,
because the limiting factor is the speed at which today's hard drives can
transfer data over the interface. A fast drive, doing a burst read from
cache, might show an improvement, but for most of the time you probably
won't see a difference. This will change in the future as data densities and
spin-speeds increase.

All this is probably irrelevant for you at the moment, however, because I've
pored over the (admittedly, very badly laid out) information on the
Dimension 2400 on the Dell.com website, and there is no mention of your
system having Serial-ATA ports. That being the case, you'd have to buy a PCI
S-ATA interface - not recommended, because it would be sharing the 133MB/s
bandwidth of your PCI bus with all your other PCI devices, and hence
performance would be reduced. If I'm wrong, and you know for a fact that
your board DOES have S-ATA ports, then go for it. Otherwise, stick with the
parallel ATA/100 drive.

More information on S-ATA is at:
http://www.serialata.org/

As far as software and the OS are concerned, S-ATA drives appear exactly the
same as Parallel-ATA drives. The issue you allude to (someone being able to
see only half of a large drive) is common to both drive types. There is a
"limit" in the ATA specification at 137GB. Motherboard BIOSes that do not
implement the latest version of the spec (specifically, 48-bit LBA
translation) will not correctly see drives beyond this size.
This is just the latest in a series of limits that have been hit (and
breached) in the IDE/ATA spec; about 8 years ago everyone was concerned with
motherboards not supporting drives larger than 528MB, then later there was a
limit in the FAT filesystem that caused problems above 2GB, then there was
another limit that was hit at 8GB... you get the idea. Each time, a
workaround/solution has been implemented.
In short, someone who has a non-compliant BIOS will encounter this 48-bit
LBA issue with a drive larger than 137GB whether it's ATA/100 or S-ATA.

Hope this helps.

-David Hollway
mail as in header - remove spam blocker
 
J

Jim Macklin

Here are the specs on the Dell 2400 from the Dell website.
You have a poor platform for adding very much in the way of
extra features, the case is a micro (small) it only has one
internal drive bay for a single hard drive and you may have
all the other drive bays filled with a floppy drive, and a
CD-RW and a DVD.

You can tell if you have SP1 installed by looking at the
properties of MY Computer (right click My Computer, select
properties)

Here are the specs...
Drive Bays
Externally Accessible: External: Two 5.25-inch and
one 3.5-inch

Internal: One bay for 1-inch-high IDE hard drive



I/O Ports
6 USB 2.0 ports (2 front - 4 back)

1 front 1/8" headphone jack

1 serial port

1 parallel port with ECP

1 mouse: 6-pin mini-DIN

1 keyboard: 6-pin mini-DIN



Slots
3 PCI slots



Chassis
Microtower with easy internal accessibility

Dimensions: 14.5" x 7.25" x 16.75" (HxWxD) - 36.8
x 18.4 x 42.6 (cm)

Weight: 23 lbs. (10.4 kg)



Power
Input voltage: 100 to 120V at 60 Hz; or 200 to
240 V at 50 Hz

Output wattage: 250 Watts maximum continuous

Output voltage: 3.3V, 5V, and 12V

Heat dissipation: 853 BTU/hour (fully loaded
computer without monitor)

Power management: APM

Backup battery: 3.0 V CR2032 coin cell




| Thanks, everyone, for the responses so far.
|
| How do I know if I have SP1 installed? I get regular
patch updates (via
| Windows Update) to my computer, so I assume that I am
current and have SP1.
| Is that a bad assumption?
|
| Thanks,
|
| Steve
|
| | > There is no capacity limits on these newer drives really
if your mother
| > board support 48bit LBA addressing. if your system does
not, generally
| > these large drives come with a controller card which
will allow you to use
| > it. Also you must have SP1 for XP installed to
effectively use disks
| larger
| > than137 gb.
| >
| > --
| >
| > Paul.
| >
| >
| > | > > I'm thinking of installing a second internal EIDE hard
disk to my new
| Dell
| > > Dimension 2400. What's the difference between SATA
and ATA? I am
| > > considering the WD2500JB and the WD2500JD drives. The
250GB SATA-133
| > drive
| > > seems like much better value than the 250GB
DMA/ATA-100 one, but I am
| > > concerned about compatibility issues with the SATA
technology. What
| > exactly
| > > is SATA, and what are my issues? I'm asking also
because I read in
| > another
| > > thread here about a system with a newly installed
250GB SATA drive only
| > > being able to see about 1/2 of the available capacity.
| > >
| > > Thanks,
| > >
| > > Steve
| > >
| > >
| > >
| >
| >
|
|
 
J

Jim Macklin

I forgot to say. you only have 3 PCI slot and no AGP slot, I
don't know what PCI cards you have installed, but you don't
really have the room on the motherboard or in the case to
add very much.


| Thanks, everyone, for the responses so far.
|
| How do I know if I have SP1 installed? I get regular
patch updates (via
| Windows Update) to my computer, so I assume that I am
current and have SP1.
| Is that a bad assumption?
|
| Thanks,
|
| Steve
|
| | > There is no capacity limits on these newer drives really
if your mother
| > board support 48bit LBA addressing. if your system does
not, generally
| > these large drives come with a controller card which
will allow you to use
| > it. Also you must have SP1 for XP installed to
effectively use disks
| larger
| > than137 gb.
| >
| > --
| >
| > Paul.
| >
| >
| > | > > I'm thinking of installing a second internal EIDE hard
disk to my new
| Dell
| > > Dimension 2400. What's the difference between SATA
and ATA? I am
| > > considering the WD2500JB and the WD2500JD drives. The
250GB SATA-133
| > drive
| > > seems like much better value than the 250GB
DMA/ATA-100 one, but I am
| > > concerned about compatibility issues with the SATA
technology. What
| > exactly
| > > is SATA, and what are my issues? I'm asking also
because I read in
| > another
| > > thread here about a system with a newly installed
250GB SATA drive only
| > > being able to see about 1/2 of the available capacity.
| > >
| > > Thanks,
| > >
| > > Steve
| > >
| > >
| > >
| >
| >
|
|
 
S

Steven C. Liu

Thanks, everyone. So much info, so few remaining brain cells! ;-)

Two more questions:

1. How do I get SP1? Do I just download it from support.microsoft.com, or
will it cost money? I checked My Computer -> Properties, and it says
nothing about SP1 so I assume I don't have that.

2. If I go with an external USB 250 GB drive, will that obviate all these
issues?

On a probably unrelated topic, what is firewire?

TIA,

Steve
 
N

Nick Burns

If you have to buy a control card for the SATA, you will have to operate at
the speed of your pci bus.
 
J

Jim Macklin

Answer 1. The normal Windows Update will list SP1 unless
there was some problem. You can download it for free from
Windows Update Catalog/ Windows Downloads.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/search.aspx?displaylang=en
Service packs
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=FH;[LN];sp&

Answer 2. An external USB 2.0 drive will work better with
your system because of the limited internal space. It also
has the advantage that you can back-up working files and
take it with you when you need a secure copy of important
data. It also will allow you to take your work with you.

Answer 3... Firewire, aka IEEE 1394 is a very fast (speed
about same as USB 2.0) means to connect devices to a
computer. It is common on movie cameras and Apple calls it
iLink. You can get a Firewire card IF you have available
PCI slots.



| Thanks, everyone. So much info, so few remaining brain
cells! ;-)
|
| Two more questions:
|
| 1. How do I get SP1? Do I just download it from
support.microsoft.com, or
| will it cost money? I checked My Computer -> Properties,
and it says
| nothing about SP1 so I assume I don't have that.
|
| 2. If I go with an external USB 250 GB drive, will that
obviate all these
| issues?
|
| On a probably unrelated topic, what is firewire?
|
| TIA,
|
| Steve
|
| "David Hollway" <[email protected]>
wrote in message
| | > "Steven C. Liu" <> wrote in message
| > | > > I'm thinking of installing a second internal EIDE hard
disk to my new
| Dell
| > > Dimension 2400. What's the difference between SATA
and ATA? I am
| > > considering the WD2500JB and the WD2500JD drives. The
250GB SATA-133
| > drive
| > > seems like much better value than the 250GB
DMA/ATA-100 one, but I am
| > > concerned about compatibility issues with the SATA
technology. What
| > exactly
| > > is SATA, and what are my issues? I'm asking also
because I read in
| > another
| > > thread here about a system with a newly installed
250GB SATA drive only
| > > being able to see about 1/2 of the available capacity.
| >
| > Steven,
| >
| > Compared to ATA/100 ("Parallel ATA") Serial ATA uses a
completely
| different
| > data signalling system, using serial data transmission
to allow higher
| data
| > rates. The Parallel signalling system used by
traditional ATA interfaces
| > has reached its practical speed limit at ATA/133; it's
not possible to
| > reliably push data any faster over the 40 parallel data
tracks used by
| that
| > interface.
| > As a result, Serial ATA uses a different cable type for
both power and
| data.
| > The data cables are much smaller and thinner, because
they have a lower
| pin
| > count. The advantages of this are:
| >
| > -For the chipset designer: S-ATA uses a lower signalling
voltage, hence no
| > need to accomodate legacy 5V signalling in the IDE
controller, something
| > that has become more of an issue as chipset voltages
trend lower.
| >
| > -For the motherboard designer: far fewer tracks to route
between the IDE
| > controller and the connector. Less space is taken up by
S-ATA, leaving
| more
| > room on the board for other features.
| >
| > -For the system builder: smaller cables mean better
airflow through the
| > chassis, leading to better cooling. The redesigned
connectors are less
| > liable to being plugged in the wrong way, aiding
manufacturability. Also,
| as
| > S-ATA only has one drive per cable, there are no
master/slave jumpers to
| > worry about.
| >
| > -For the user: the cooling/airflow benefits mentioned
above, plus
| > theoretically better performance - first-generation
S-ATA offers 150MB/s
| of
| > bandwidth per channel ("S-ATA/150"). This is only
theoretical, however,
| > because the limiting factor is the speed at which
today's hard drives can
| > transfer data over the interface. A fast drive, doing a
burst read from
| > cache, might show an improvement, but for most of the
time you probably
| > won't see a difference. This will change in the future
as data densities
| and
| > spin-speeds increase.
| >
| > All this is probably irrelevant for you at the moment,
however, because
| I've
| > pored over the (admittedly, very badly laid out)
information on the
| > Dimension 2400 on the Dell.com website, and there is no
mention of your
| > system having Serial-ATA ports. That being the case,
you'd have to buy a
| PCI
| > S-ATA interface - not recommended, because it would be
sharing the 133MB/s
| > bandwidth of your PCI bus with all your other PCI
devices, and hence
| > performance would be reduced. If I'm wrong, and you
know for a fact that
| > your board DOES have S-ATA ports, then go for it.
Otherwise, stick with
| the
| > parallel ATA/100 drive.
| >
| > More information on S-ATA is at:
| > http://www.serialata.org/
| >
| > As far as software and the OS are concerned, S-ATA
drives appear exactly
| the
| > same as Parallel-ATA drives. The issue you allude to
(someone being able
| to
| > see only half of a large drive) is common to both drive
types. There is a
| > "limit" in the ATA specification at 137GB. Motherboard
BIOSes that do not
| > implement the latest version of the spec (specifically,
48-bit LBA
| > translation) will not correctly see drives beyond this
size.
| > This is just the latest in a series of limits that have
been hit (and
| > breached) in the IDE/ATA spec; about 8 years ago
everyone was concerned
| with
| > motherboards not supporting drives larger than 528MB,
then later there was
| a
| > limit in the FAT filesystem that caused problems above
2GB, then there was
| > another limit that was hit at 8GB... you get the idea.
Each time, a
| > workaround/solution has been implemented.
| > In short, someone who has a non-compliant BIOS will
encounter this 48-bit
| > LBA issue with a drive larger than 137GB whether it's
ATA/100 or S-ATA.
| >
| > Hope this helps.
| >
| > -David Hollway
| > mail as in header - remove spam blocker
| >
| >
| >
| >
|
|
 

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