S.M.A.R.T Failure- Now What??!

[Rich]

I just started getting a SMART failure message on my Primary slave HD
at bootup.

I ran Norton Disk Doctor and fixed a free space error on it.

I DL'ed a SMART monitor program called "HDD Health" and it is logging
'events' every 30 minutes or so. The events look innocent- for
instance it reports a 2 degree increase in temperature, or a seek time
or raw read error parameter change. The changes are very small- a
count of 1 or 2, and they are being reported on all 3 of my installed
HDs, not just the one the SMART reports as a FAIL at bootup.

What do I do now? Two of my HDs are Seagate and are less that a year
old. The one reported as fail is a Maxtor and it is about 2 years
old.

Can anyone point me to a good source of info about this SMART
capability that is built into newer HDs?

TIA, Rich

 

[francis gérard]

I just started getting a SMART failure message on my Primary slave HD
at bootup.

I ran Norton Disk Doctor and fixed a free space error on it.

free space errors are common occurences in windows, if you had run chkdsk /p
from the recovery console, it would have found the same errors and repaired
them. it's no big deal.

I DL'ed a SMART monitor program called "HDD Health" and it is logging
'events' every 30 minutes or so. The events look innocent- for
instance it reports a 2 degree increase in temperature, or a seek time
or raw read error parameter change. The changes are very small- a
count of 1 or 2, and they are being reported on all 3 of my installed
HDs, not just the one the SMART reports as a FAIL at bootup.

so many people are duped by this junk, get rid of smart monitor, it's not so
smart. it's normal for the drive temperature to fluctuate during use, and
yes, the drives will run quite warm, especially the newer 7200rpm and
10,000rpm drives... NORMAL!

What do I do now? Two of my HDs are Seagate and are less that a year
old. The one reported as fail is a Maxtor and it is about 2 years
old.

like i said, uninstall that junk from your system

Can anyone point me to a good source of info about this SMART
capability that is built into newer HDs?

http://www.seagate.com/support/kb/disc/smart.html

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/archive/smartdrv.mspx

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/perf/qual/featuresSMART-c.html

 

[David H. Lipman]

Go to the hard disk manufacturer's web site and download their diagnostic software
respective to your hard disk. After the test, you will know if the hard disk is bad or
not..

Quantum/Maxtor - PowerMax
http://www.maxtor.com/en/support/downloads/powermax.htm

Western Digital - Data LifeGuard Tools (DLGDiag)
http://support.wdc.com/download/

Hitachi/IBM - Drive Fitness Test (DFT)
http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/download.htm

Seagate - SeaTools
http://www.seagate.com/support/seatools/

Fujitsu - Diagnostic Tool
http://www.fcpa.com/download/hard-drives/

Samsung - Disk manager
http://www.samsung.com/Products/HardDiskDrive/utilities/

Dave






| I just started getting a SMART failure message on my Primary slave HD
| at bootup.
|
| I ran Norton Disk Doctor and fixed a free space error on it.
|
| I DL'ed a SMART monitor program called "HDD Health" and it is logging
| 'events' every 30 minutes or so. The events look innocent- for
| instance it reports a 2 degree increase in temperature, or a seek time
| or raw read error parameter change. The changes are very small- a
| count of 1 or 2, and they are being reported on all 3 of my installed
| HDs, not just the one the SMART reports as a FAIL at bootup.
|
| What do I do now? Two of my HDs are Seagate and are less that a year
| old. The one reported as fail is a Maxtor and it is about 2 years
| old.
|
| Can anyone point me to a good source of info about this SMART
| capability that is built into newer HDs?
|
| TIA, Rich

 

[Never anonymous Bud]

I just started getting a SMART failure message on my Primary slave HD
at bootup.

I ran Norton Disk Doctor and fixed a free space error on it.

I DL'ed a SMART monitor program called "HDD Health" and it is logging
'events' every 30 minutes or so. The events look innocent- for
instance it reports a 2 degree increase in temperature, or a seek time
or raw read error parameter change. The changes are very small- a
count of 1 or 2, and they are being reported on all 3 of my installed
HDs, not just the one the SMART reports as a FAIL at bootup.

What do I do now? Two of my HDs are Seagate and are less that a year
old. The one reported as fail is a Maxtor and it is about 2 years
old.

Chances are it's the HD controller on your MB that's the problem.

 

[francis gérard]

Go to the hard disk manufacturer's web site and download their diagnostic
software
respective to your hard disk. After the test, you will know if the hard
disk is bad or
not..

exactly...

 

[francis gérard]

Chances are it's the HD controller on your MB that's the problem.

???!

 

[Mistoffolees]

I just started getting a SMART failure message on my Primary slave HD
at bootup.

I ran Norton Disk Doctor and fixed a free space error on it.

I DL'ed a SMART monitor program called "HDD Health" and it is logging
'events' every 30 minutes or so. The events look innocent- for
instance it reports a 2 degree increase in temperature, or a seek time
or raw read error parameter change. The changes are very small- a
count of 1 or 2, and they are being reported on all 3 of my installed
HDs, not just the one the SMART reports as a FAIL at bootup.

What do I do now? Two of my HDs are Seagate and are less that a year
old. The one reported as fail is a Maxtor and it is about 2 years
old.

Can anyone point me to a good source of info about this SMART
capability that is built into newer HDs?

TIA, Rich

In addition to the advice already given, consider this
a heads-up to develop and maintain a regular backup for
the hard drives. The failure that bites the hardest is
the one that happens without any advance warning.

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Greetings --

From whatis.com (http://whatis.techtarget.com/):

"Self-Monitoring Analysis and Reporting Technology (S.M.A.R.T.) is
an interface between a computer's start-up program or BIOS (basic
input/output system) and the computer hard disk. It is a feature of
the Enhanced Integrated Drive Electronics (EIDE) technology that
controls access to the hard drive. If S.M.A.R.T is enabled when a
computer is set up, the BIOS can receive analytical information from
the hard drive and determine whether to send the user a warning
message about possible future failure of the hard drive. "

As you can see, this is purely a function of the PC's
hardware/firmware and the hard drive; it has nothing to do with Win2K,
or any other operating system.

Having seen the same error, I can only say: "Back up your data
daily until you replace that drive."

On those machines I on which I've seen those S.M.A.R.T. warnings,
catastrophic hard drive failures invariably followed. Some hard
drives lasted for a few days after the warnings first appeared, one
lasted months, and some lasted only minutes. I suppose the one that
lasted months could be considered a false alarm, as months hardly
translate to "imminent," but, on the whole, I'd suggest you take the
warnings seriously.

Contact Maxtor to see if the drive is still under warranty and
about getting a replacement, if you are still within the warranty
period.


Bruce Chambers
--
Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having both at once. - RAH

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Greetings --

Why the skepticism? The response is more apt to be correct than
your first answer was.

Bruce Chambers
--
Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having both at once. - RAH

 

[francis gérard]

Greetings --

Why the skepticism? The response is more apt to be correct than your
first answer was.

i've read some of your articles mr chambers, i wouldn't be too quick to
judge others' knowledge if i were you.

 

[francis gérard]

Greetings --

From whatis.com (http://whatis.techtarget.com/):

"Self-Monitoring Analysis and Reporting Technology (S.M.A.R.T.) is
an interface between a computer's start-up program or BIOS (basic
input/output system) and the computer hard disk. It is a feature of
the Enhanced Integrated Drive Electronics (EIDE) technology that
controls access to the hard drive. If S.M.A.R.T is enabled when a
computer is set up, the BIOS can receive analytical information from
the hard drive and determine whether to send the user a warning
message about possible future failure of the hard drive. "

As you can see, this is purely a function of the PC's hardware/firmware
and the hard drive; it has nothing to do with Win2K, or any other
operating system.

not true... in order for the reporting functions of SMART to work, the
operating system usually provides a software layer for SMART monitoring
applications. there's not much point in the hardware (drive) monitoring
itself for failure prediction if it can't report that to the operating
system. also consider, some implementations of SMART (in the BIOS firmware)
on certain boards are by disabled by default, with good reason, because they
are flaky and/or not fully compliant with the specification. sometimes a
BIOS update will resolve this, however.

how WMI provides a reporting layer for SMART applications:
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/archive/smartdrv.mspx

why SMART isn't so smart:
http://www.serverworldmagazine.com/monthly/2002/06/smart.shtml

download a simple utility for reading raw SMART data from hard drives:
http://www.beyondlogic.org/solutions/smart/smart.htm

Having seen the same error, I can only say: "Back up your data daily
until you replace that drive."

huh? you did a google search on SMART enabled hard drives and all of a
sudden you're an expert

On those machines I on which I've seen those S.M.A.R.T. warnings,
catastrophic hard drive failures invariably followed. Some hard
drives lasted for a few days after the warnings first appeared, one
lasted months, and some lasted only minutes. I suppose the one that
lasted months could be considered a false alarm, as months hardly
translate to "imminent," but, on the whole, I'd suggest you take the
warnings seriously.

other than fluctuating temperature during normal operation of the hard
drives, Rich didn't say what the nature of the reported failure was. i've
assumed he was referring to the temperature of the maxtor drive during
bootup, which would obviously run hot during that period of time. apparently
the two seagate drives are also being 'reported' but he hasn't elaborated on
that.

Contact Maxtor to see if the drive is still under warranty and about
getting a replacement, if you are still within the warranty period.

good advice

 

[David H. Lipman]

With IDE hard disks the controller is on the hard disk. That is why the hard disk has to be
placed in a Master-Slave relationship. Therefore, if the controller is bad, the hard disk
is bad. I have yet to see the IDE/ATA Chip-Set of a motherboard interface fail. I do
remember having MFM and RLL 16bit Western Digital controller cards fail.

Dave




| FALSE prophecies from the archives, Rich <[email protected]> on Sat, 14 Aug 2004
17:31:51 -0400 spoke:
|
| >I just started getting a SMART failure message on my Primary slave HD
| >at bootup.
| >
| >I ran Norton Disk Doctor and fixed a free space error on it.
| >
| >I DL'ed a SMART monitor program called "HDD Health" and it is logging
| >'events' every 30 minutes or so. The events look innocent- for
| >instance it reports a 2 degree increase in temperature, or a seek time
| >or raw read error parameter change. The changes are very small- a
| >count of 1 or 2, and they are being reported on all 3 of my installed
| >HDs, not just the one the SMART reports as a FAIL at bootup.
| >
| >What do I do now? Two of my HDs are Seagate and are less that a year
| >old. The one reported as fail is a Maxtor and it is about 2 years
| >old.
|
| Chances are it's the HD controller on your MB that's the problem.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| --
|
| The truth is out there,
|
| but it's not interesting enough for most people.

 

[Never anonymous Bud]

I have yet to see the IDE/ATA Chip-Set of a motherboard interface fail.

I've had 4 MBs fail, and only 1 IDE HD fail.

While 'IDE controller' might better be expressed as 'IDE interface',
I stick with my suggestion, due to all 3 of his HDs showing problems.,

 

[David H. Lipman]

Then it could be environmental problems such as a power supply. I have seen power supplies
that are out of spec cause hard disk failures (particularly SCSI) such as large ripple
component and voltages out of tolerances. Either the interface works or not, but it should
not cause a hard disk to fail.

Dave





| FALSE prophecies from the archives, "David H. Lipman" <[email protected]> on
Sat, 14 Aug 2004 22:15:14 -0400
| spoke:
|
| > I have yet to see the IDE/ATA Chip-Set of a motherboard interface fail.
|
| I've had 4 MBs fail, and only 1 IDE HD fail.
|
| While 'IDE controller' might better be expressed as 'IDE interface',
| I stick with my suggestion, due to all 3 of his HDs showing problems.,
|
|
|
|
|
| --
|
| The truth is out there,
|
| but it's not interesting enough for most people.

 

[francis gérard]

Then it could be environmental problems such as a power supply. I have
seen power supplies
that are out of spec cause hard disk failures (particularly SCSI) such as
large ripple
component and voltages out of tolerances. Either the interface works or
not, but it should
not cause a hard disk to fail.

for the most part, i concur, but VIA chipsets... ugh, those buggers can be
really flakey, not to mention the proprietary drivers usually required to
make their performance features work. anyway, that's another matter.

 

[David H. Lipman]

That must be one of the reasons I steer away from VIA Chip-Sets ;-)

Dave





|
| | > Then it could be environmental problems such as a power supply. I have
| > seen power supplies
| > that are out of spec cause hard disk failures (particularly SCSI) such as
| > large ripple
| > component and voltages out of tolerances. Either the interface works or
| > not, but it should
| > not cause a hard disk to fail.
|
| for the most part, i concur, but VIA chipsets... ugh, those buggers can be
| really flakey, not to mention the proprietary drivers usually required to
| make their performance features work. anyway, that's another matter.
|
| --
| francis
|
|

 

[francis gérard]

That must be one of the reasons I steer away from VIA Chip-Sets ;-)

as do i... no point in making more work for yourself, now is there? ;->

 

[Rich]

I got the Maxtor diagnostic SW. Ran and found an error which it then
fixed. No good info as to what the error was but my SMART monitoring
software logged a sector relocation event afterward.

I then ran the Maxtor diag software overnight in a burn-in mode. No
errors.

After the diag sw fixed the problem, my bootup shows an 'OK' status on
that drive.

Regarding the other two drives- I think that the SMART events are
really just normal thing happening. Changes of temp, minor random
seek rate changes, etc.

I will keep an eye on this for a while to see if anything serious
develops.

Any other comments?

Thanks to all.

Rich

 

[David H. Lipman]

;-)

Dave



|
| | > That must be one of the reasons I steer away from VIA Chip-Sets ;-)
|
| as do i... no point in making more work for yourself, now is there? ;->
| --
| francis
|
|

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Greetings --

No OS intervention or "interpretation." I speak only of boot-time
warnings that occur well before any OS is loaded.

Who did the Google search before claiming knowledge? Not I;
although you certainly appear to have done so. I speak only from
first hand experience, supporting hundreds of machines on corporate
and government LANs.

Bruce Chambers
--
Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having both at once. - RAH