Reverting to XP from Vista

[p.jayant]

I have been struggling to stabilize my Vista spending a lot of money not
only on the Vista OS but also to upgrade to Dual Processor (for the required
speed), 2 GB memory and change of graphics, video and sound cards to make
them compatible with Vista. But all that has failed and I can neither
continue my work of capturing audio and video music nor can I get my e-mail,
thanks to Windows Mail, the e-mail application in Vista.

So I am seriously considering reverting to Vista and from the comments I
have read on MS KB and various forums, this should be possible if
1) I have a Windows.old file saved on the system while upgrading to Vista or
2) I have the official Windows XP CD to prove that I am a genuine erstwhile
customer of XP

Since most of my data files are on a separate hard drive, I plan to copy all
data and settings I have been using in MS Office and other applications on
the data drive before asking Windows to install XP over Vista as an upgrade,
using a new official XP CD (if one is available for reverting to XP from
Vista.

Is there any correspondent of this Newsgroup who has reverted to XP from
Vista who could advise me if this procedure would work or are there any
flaws still in it? If nothing is going to work, I shall have to resort to
reformatting and making a fresh XP install.

P. Jayant

 

[Malke]

p.jayant wrote:

(snippage)

Next time please crosspost instead of multiposting.

Is there any correspondent of this Newsgroup who has reverted to XP from
Vista who could advise me if this procedure would work or are there any
flaws still in it? If nothing is going to work, I shall have to resort to
reformatting and making a fresh XP install.

General information about replacing Vista with XP:

A. On an OEM (HP, Sony, etc.) computer:

1. Go to the OEM's website and look for XP drivers for your specific model
computer. If there are no XP drivers, then you can't install XP. End of
story. If there are drivers, download them and store on a CD-R or USB
thumbdrive; you'll need them after you install XP.

2. Check with the OEM - either from their tech support website or by calling
them - to see if you will void your warranty if you do this. If you will
void the warranty, you make the decision.

3. If the OEM does support XP on the machine, call them and see if you can
have downgrade rights and have them send you an XP restore disk. This will
be far the easiest and best way of getting XP on the machine.

4. If XP is supported on the machine but the OEM doesn't have an XP restore
disk for you, understand that you'll need to purchase a retail copy of XP
from your favorite online or brick/mortar store.

5. Also understand that you will need to do a clean install of XP so if you
have any data you want, back it up first.

6. If none of the above is applicable to you because you can't run XP on
that machine (see Item #1 above), return the computer and purchase one
running XP instead.

B. On a generic/home-built computer (from non-OEM company) - You will need
drivers for all your hardware. See the second link below for more details:

http://michaelstevenstech.com/cleanxpinstall.html - Clean Install How-To
http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/page2.html#Reinstalling_Windows - What
you will need on-hand

Malke

 

[throwitout]

p.jayant wrote:

(snippage)

Next time please crosspost instead of multiposting.



General information about replacing Vista with XP:

A. On an OEM (HP, Sony, etc.) computer:

1. Go to the OEM's website and look for XP drivers for your specific model
computer. If there are no XP drivers, then you can't install XP. End of
story.

Do you normally give up that easily? In my case HP did not list XP
drivers for my model. Looking up an older model with the same
components yielded drivers galore. Also for most of the components
you'd probably be able to get drivers from the component manufacturer
(chipset manufacturer, video, etc)

2. Check with the OEM - either from their tech support website or by calling
them - to see if you will void your warranty if you do this. If you will
void the warranty, you make the decision.

You'll void software warranties but AFAIK they can't void your entire
coverage. But I'd recommend generating Vista restore disks (if the
machine didn't come with any) so you can easily return to Vista.

4. If XP is supported on the machine but the OEM doesn't have an XP restore
disk for you, understand that you'll need to purchase a retail copy of XP
from your favorite online or brick/mortar store.

Business and Ultimate OEM editions have downgrade rights to XP if you
already own a legitimate standalone copy of XP.

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Business and Ultimate OEM editions have downgrade rights
to XP if you already own a legitimate standalone copy of XP.

What are "downgrade rights"? What do they do for you
and how do they do it? Do downgrade rights let you re-cactivate
XP without hassle? If you haven't activated your XP license in
more than 4 months, "downgrade rights" would seem to be
superfluous.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Downgrade rights are for OEM business editions of Windows. Consumer
editions of Windows do not qualify. Vista Business and Ultimate qualify,
but not Vista Home Basic or Vista Home Premium. Here is an explanation of
downgrade rights. The explanation is for OEM's wanting to offer downgrade
rights. This is not an end-user webpage.
http://download.microsoft.com/downl...7-3927aacd189a/downgradeOEMversion-020707.pdf

The copy of XP Pro that you install must not be an OEM copy that has been
used on another computer. If you own a retail copy of XP Pro x86, XP Pro
x64, or XP Tablet Edition that is not in use on another computer, you may
install it. If not, you must purchase one.

The purchase may be an OEM (system builder) cd but I recommend against that.
Once you install an OEM copy of XP Pro x86 or XP Tablet Edition you will not
be able to use it on a different computer even if you later decide to
reinstall Vista again. I suggest you buy an XP Pro x86 full edition.

XP Pro x64 has different terms and conditons of use and can be transferred
should you reinstall Vista. XP Pro x64 has transfer rights even though it
is only available in a system builder package.

After installation of XP you must call the activation center and tell the
agent that you are downgrading from Vista Business or Ultimate to XP. The
agent will ask you questions about the copy of XP Pro you are using, obtain
the product key from you and the product key for the copy of Vista you are
downgrading and issue you a forty-character PID for XP.

You are entitled to reinstall the OEM copy of Vista at a later date and
activate.

Remember, if a Vista Home edition came preinstalled on your computer you do
not have downgrade rights. Also, remember that you may not downgrade to XP
Home or Windows 2000, Win9x/ME, etc.

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Regarding this paragraph:

"The purchase may be an OEM (system builder) cd but I
recommend against that. Once you install an OEM copy
of XP Pro x86 or XP Tablet Edition you will not be able
to use it on a different computer even if you later decide to
reinstall Vista again. I suggest you buy an XP Pro x86 full
edition."

So you guy a full or OEM edition of XP Pro and install it.
Now you're running XP Pro. What did "downgrade rights"
gain for you?
Then you decide to wipe out XP Pro and so you reinstall
Vista. What did "downgrade rights" gain for you?

Or is this the essence of "downgrade rights":

"You are entitled to reinstall the OEM copy of Vista at a
later date and activate."

If that is so, why did Dell give me an installation DVD along
with the Vista Business OS pre-installed on my laptop? Would
MS not let me reinstall it if my hard drive failed?

*TimDaniels*

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

There is an issue with an OEM license once you install a different OS on the
box. You want to preserve the right to use the Vista OEM license again if
you reinstall Vista.

You are entitled to reinstall the Dell provided OS if the hard drive failed,
of course. But that is not the same thing as installing another operating
system and then returning to the Dell-provided one. The software result is
the same, but downgrade rights have nothing to do with software. Downgrade
rights have to do with licensing.

You should talk to Dell about whether exercising downgrade rights has an
impact on Dell support for your computer and the warranty. It may well be
that they can provide support in a downgrade scenario or even provide a cd.

Keep in mind that if Vista came preinstalled, you need to make sure there
are Dell drivers for XP as well as Vista.

 

[throwitout]

Regarding this paragraph:

"The purchase may be an OEM (system builder) cd but I
recommend against that. Once you install an OEM copy
of XP Pro x86 or XP Tablet Edition you will not be able
to use it on a different computer even if you later decide to
reinstall Vista again. I suggest you buy an XP Pro x86 full
edition."

So you guy a full or OEM edition of XP Pro and install it.
Now you're running XP Pro. What did "downgrade rights"
gain for you?
Then you decide to wipe out XP Pro and so you reinstall
Vista. What did "downgrade rights" gain for you?

Or is this the essence of "downgrade rights":

"You are entitled to reinstall the OEM copy of Vista at a
later date and activate."

If that is so, why did Dell give me an installation DVD along
with the Vista Business OS pre-installed on my laptop? Would
MS not let me reinstall it if my hard drive failed?

*TimDaniels*

He completely mangled how downgrade rights work.

Say you currently have PC A loaded with XP Pro. You buy PC B preloaded
with Vista Buisness or Ultimate. You are allowed to use the XP cd from
PC A to load XP on PC B so that you now have XP loaded on two
machines. When you install XP on PC B you will have to call to
activate if XP was installed on PC A within 120 days. They will verify
that you have an eligible copy of Vista (business or Ultimate) and a
legitimate copy of XP. You can at any moment without hassle upgrade to
the copy of Vista that came with the computer, since Microsoft would
prefer that you use their new OS. You can't use the downgrade rights
to dual boot. If you return to Vista you can't transfer the downgrade
rights to a third machine, the downgrade rights only apply to the
computer that came with the OEM license of Vista.

You must be using a legitimate version of XP Pro media.
Such would include:
-Volume License customers (who won't have to call to activate anyways)
-Retail copy
-OEM Copy

The main problem is if the XP machine has an OEM copy of XP but only
includes "recover" disks and not an actual XP CD you're basically
screwed, since you won't be able to use the recover disk on other
hardware. Even though you have a product key, if you "obtain" a Pro CD
it isn't considered legitimate.

Yes you could just wait 120 days between activations installing the
same copy on two computers, but it wouldn't be considered legitimate,
and in the case of businesses, they usually like to keep software
licenses legitimate.

 

[Timothy Daniels]

There is an issue with an OEM license once you install a different
OS on the box. You want to preserve the right to use the Vista
OEM license again if you reinstall Vista.

You are entitled to reinstall the Dell provided OS if the hard drive
failed, of course. But that is not the same thing as installing another
operating system and then returning to the Dell-provided one. The
software result is the same, but downgrade rights have nothing to
do with software. Downgrade rights have to do with licensing.

You should talk to Dell about whether exercising downgrade
rights has an impact on Dell support for your computer and the
warranty. It may well be that they can provide support in a
downgrade scenario or even provide a cd.

Thanks for the clarification. I can see now that the problem is
not technical nor practical - it's merely about licensing. IOW,
most users can ignore it. It's good to know MS's view on this,
though, and you've been patient in explaining it. Thanks again.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Say you currently have PC A loaded with XP Pro. You buy
PC B preloaded with Vista Buisness or Ultimate. You are
allowed to use the XP cd from PC A to load XP on PC B
so that you now have XP loaded on two machines...

OK, that seems to be the essence of "downgrade rights" -
to allow the 2nd activation and use of XP.
Thanks.

*TimDaniels*

 

[p.jayant]

Thanks for all the comments posted by various correspondents to my query.
Even though they are highly informative, some of them do not apply to my
situation which is as follows.



My computer has been built, modified and upgraded to meet the requirements
of newer applications, several times over the last 7 to 8 years of XP and
recently for meeting the requirements of Vista. But I still have all the
installation CDs of the original Windows XP and various devices installed on
the computer along with the dates and numbers of Activation and
Registration.



I have two H Ds on the computer: the C drive has all the programs and the O
S and the D drive has all the documents from M S Office applications and
graphic, animation, video and music files which open with the applications
on the C Drive. I have stored all the Device Drivers downloaded from various
Internet sites for upgrading in a separate Folder and I am hoping that many
of them can be used during the installation of new XP. I can also save all
the Documents and Settings for various applications on the D Drive, if it is
likely to help. I am hoping that the new XP will recognize the D drive and
install it as a secondary disk, just like the CD and DVD Read/Write drives
and thus I will be able to use the data.



The 64(?) dollar question is:

Do I have to buy a new copy of XP for restoring XP? What do I do with the
new or the old CD? Just put it in the CD drive and say what: Repair? Or can
I buy a Restore XP CD?

At what stage do I make the confession that I have sinned by going after
Vista and want to get back to XP? At what stage do I get connected to
Microsoft and answer their queries about my previous XP installation on the
same computer?



Comments from Mr. Malke and other knowledgeable correspondents will inspire
some confidence in this adventure.



P. Jayant

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Registration doesn't matter. You register yourself as a user. That's all.
You register yourself but activate the software. MS stopped connecting
registration data with activation data several years ago due to some privacy
rules.

Use the original XP cd, OEM or retail, whichever it is. It sounds like it
may be an original XP release (XP Gold) from 2002. If so, I suggest that
you update it to XP SP2 by making a slipstreamed cd using the original cd
and the SP2 package for IT Professionals. I use a program called nLite to
make slipstreamed cd's. You can then use the new cd to install or repair XP
SP2 whenever you want.

nLite: http://www.nliteos.com/guide/
SP2:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...BE-3B8E-4F30-8245-9E368D3CDB5A&displaylang=en

When you activate it is likely that you can just do it over the internet.
In the event activation is not accepted over the internet, use the phone
number on the activation screen (keep the screen open). As long as the
product key is only in use on one computer all should go fine. Phone
activation only takes a few minutes. If it has been more than a few months
since the last time your product key was activated or reactivated the
internet activation should just work.

You can install from the old XP cd but you will spend quite a while updating
on Windows Update (it can be a day-long job starting with XP Gold). It will
be faster to make the slipstreamed cd and just use that to reinstall. That
way most of the updates will already be installed. There will still be a
long list of updates that have come out since SP2 released, but not nearly
as many as nearly six years worth. Your product key will work with the
slipstreamed cd just fine.

Since you will need an XP SP2 cd for repairing the installation should you
ever need to do that, having a cd that matches the service pack level on the
hard drive is pretty important anyway.

If I am reading you wrong and what you have are actually restore cd's then
you would have to use them and update accordingly.

 

[throwitout]

Thanks for all the comments posted by various correspondents to my query.
Even though they are highly informative, some of them do not apply to my
situation which is as follows.

My computer has been built, modified and upgraded to meet the requirements
of newer applications, several times over the last 7 to 8 years of XP and
recently for meeting the requirements of Vista. But I still have all the
installation CDs of the original Windows XP and various devices installed on
the computer along with the dates and numbers of Activation and
Registration.

I have two H Ds on the computer: the C drive has all the programs and the O
S and the D drive has all the documents from M S Office applications and
graphic, animation, video and music files which open with the applications
on the C Drive. I have stored all the Device Drivers downloaded from various
Internet sites for upgrading in a separate Folder and I am hoping that many
of them can be used during the installation of new XP. I can also save all
the Documents and Settings for various applications on the D Drive, if it is
likely to help. I am hoping that the new XP will recognize the D drive and
install it as a secondary disk, just like the CD and DVD Read/Write drives
and thus I will be able to use the data.

The 64(?) dollar question is:

Do I have to buy a new copy of XP for restoring XP? What do I do with the
new or the old CD? Just put it in the CD drive and say what: Repair? Or can
I buy a Restore XP CD?

At what stage do I make the confession that I have sinned by going after
Vista and want to get back to XP? At what stage do I get connected to
Microsoft and answer their queries about my previous XP installation on the
same computer?

Comments from Mr. Malke and other knowledgeable correspondents will inspire
some confidence in this adventure.

P. Jayant

Colin gave some good advice about using nLite to put in SP2. Though
last I checked there's still nearly 100 updates since SP2. It will be
really nice once SP3 gets fully released.

There's rumours that using an upgrade version of Vista will invalidate
your XP key, but I've yet to find any evidence either supporting it or
denying it. So might as well give it a shot. Here's a page with some
information on why people are worried about it, and how to do a clean
install of Vista using without having to install XP.

http://www.whatthetech.com/2007/01/29/vista-upgrade-invalidates-your-xp-key/

To return to XP there is no downgrade program or procedure and you
must install XP from scratch.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

I don't believe the rumor either. Maybe down the line sometime.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Let me elaborate on the rumor that an upgrade edition of Vista invalidates
the XP license already installed on the machine.

Let's say that you have two drives, 1 and 2 and XP is installed on 1. You
are using a Vista upgrade edition. You start Vista Setup from the XP
desktop, enter your Vista pk, etc. When you reach the screen offering you
the volumes for installation you can choose either 1 or 2 because both are
offered. You can do an upgrade or custom install on 1 but only a custom
install on 2. You choose 2. Vista installs on 2 setting up a dual boot
system.

Has it invalidated the XP license? MS can't really do that. Here's one
reason why.

You are not required to tie the XP license that is installed on drive 1 to
the Vista upgrade edition license on drive 2. You can instead assign a
license for a different copy of Windows 2000, XP, or Vista if you want. The
only requirement is that it is not in use on any computer. Remember that
the Vista upgrade edition EULA only requires you to own a license to
another, qualifying, copy of Windows that is not installed on another
computer. It never states that the qualifying license must be the one
installed on the computer being upgraded. To quote:

"13. UPGRADES. To use upgrade software, you must first be licensed for the
software that is eligible
for the upgrade. Upon upgrade, this agreement takes the place of the
agreement for the software
you upgraded from. After you upgrade, you may no longer use the software you
upgraded from."

So I don't see how Microsoft can invalidate the product key for a copy of XP
that may not even be the one tied to the Vista upgrade edition license. It
is up to the user which license is going to be superceded by the upgrade
edition license and there is no way for the software to determine that
unless Setup asked for the superceded product key (which it never does).

 

[Twayne]

IFF the machine has ever run XP before, then it can be done. Just
re-install XP from the original CD.
If it came with Vista, then maybe not possible if it has the newest
chipset; it's ONLY Vista compatible; nothing older. Check it out.

Do you normally give up that easily? In my case HP did not list XP
drivers for my model. Looking up an older model with the same
components yielded drivers galore. Also for most of the components
you'd probably be able to get drivers from the component manufacturer
(chipset manufacturer, video, etc)

If the computer has the Vista chipset (Vista Compatible), that's all she
wrote. It won't run anything older than Vista; period. YOu'll need
some special stuff to go back to XP. If the Vista machine doesn't/won't
run aero (Vista ready), then you have the old chipset and should be able
to get the drivers etc..

You'll void software warranties but AFAIK they can't void your entire
coverage. But I'd recommend generating Vista restore disks (if the
machine didn't come with any) so you can easily return to Vista.


Business and Ultimate OEM editions have downgrade rights to XP if you
already own a legitimate standalone copy of XP.

--
--
Regards,

Twayne

Open Office isn't just for wimps anymore;
OOo is a GREAT MS Office replacement
www.openoffice.org