Replacing hard drive in Dell notebook

J

Joe Starin

My daughter has a Dell 8600 notebook less than a year old with Windows XP Pro operating system. The HD is making a strange, very infrequent mechanical noise. Dell sent us a new HD and suggested that she (1) back up the existing HD, (2) install the new HD, and (3) re-install all of the software. Crap!

Q. Can she simply ghost the existing HD and transfer everything to the new HD? (The notebook, although noisey at times, is still fully functional.)

Q. Would/should Dell do all of this for me?

Thanks for any and all replies. Joe Starin
 
D

David H. Lipman

My daughter has a Dell 8600 notebook less than a year old with Windows XP Pro operating
system. The HD is making a strange, very infrequent mechanical noise. Dell sent us a new HD
and suggested that she (1) back up the existing HD, (2) install the new HD, and (3)
re-install all of the software. Crap!

Q. Can she simply ghost the existing HD and transfer everything to the new HD? (The
notebook, although noisey at times, is still fully functional.)

Q. Would/should Dell do all of this for me?

Thanks for any and all replies. Joe Starin


Joe:

Ghosting is a good idea *if* the old hard disk is still working and accessible. Notebooks
can be difficult. However if it is Ghost 2003, and updated to build 793, you can Ghost to
CD, DVD or tape drives via FireWire or USB v2.0 or if the drive on the notebook has a
writeable CD or DVD drive.

Otherwise you can do a TCP/IP over-the-wire backup to another PC.

Dell doesn't do this for you under warranty and I don't know if they will do it or not if
you pay them to do it.
 
R

R. McCarty

Ghosting the existing drive will work.

That depends on your warranty and level of Service you purchased.

With everything being cost driven & not service oriented, getting a
replacement drive is the best you can hope for. A professional shop
would do this for you, but expect an average charge of $85-100.

Do you already own an Imaging program, or will you have to
purchase one ?


My daughter has a Dell 8600 notebook less than a year old with Windows XP
Pro operating system. The HD is making a strange, very infrequent mechanical
noise. Dell sent us a new HD and suggested that she (1) back up the existing
HD, (2) install the new HD, and (3) re-install all of the software. Crap!

Q. Can she simply ghost the existing HD and transfer everything to the new
HD? (The notebook, although noisey at times, is still fully functional.)

Q. Would/should Dell do all of this for me?

Thanks for any and all replies. Joe Starin
 
J

Joe Starin

Thanks, Dave. I do not have Ghost 2003 or any other ghosting program. Would
this program copy everything to, say, an external hard drive if I purchased
one? What software would I need to do a TCP/IP over-the-wire backup to
another PC? Yes, the laptop has a writable CD drive, but is not a DVD
burner. I'm asking a million questions so this whole process might be way
out of my league. Your answers are appreciated. Joe Starin
 
J

Joe Starin

Thanks for your reply, P. McCarty. I do not have a ghosting program of any
kind, although it might be a good idea to have one so I can also back up my
other PCs. Suggestions? Joe Starin
 
R

R. McCarty

Your three most likely candidates would be Norton Ghost,
Acronis True Image and BootItNG (Bing). Personally, I use
a previous version of Drive Image (Ver6 or 2002). The new
ones employ "Hot Imaging", where you can take an image
while Windows is running. With my version of Drive Image,
I use a Bootable CD-R with the tools on it. This way I can
boot to the CD and run Drive Image, PQMagic, SpinRite
and other tools from a DOS Boot mode. This also allows
me to use the programs without having to install each one on
each machine. Most all of the candidates have a Trial version
so you can install and test them out. I think the average price
is around $50-60. Some other frequent posters use the newer
versions and will likely make their own recommendations.
Whatever you decide, the key to imaging is use the "Verify"
option. This makes a second pass comparing the image just
taken to the source media. It increases the time to image, but
that extra verification is worth it when it comes time to do a
restoration.
 
D

David H. Lipman

From: "Joe Starin" <[email protected]>

| Thanks, Dave. I do not have Ghost 2003 or any other ghosting program. Would
| this program copy everything to, say, an external hard drive if I purchased
| one? What software would I need to do a TCP/IP over-the-wire backup to
| another PC? Yes, the laptop has a writable CD drive, but is not a DVD
| burner. I'm asking a million questions so this whole process might be way
| out of my league. Your answers are appreciated. Joe Starin
|

No problem Joe.

If you had an external USB or FireWire hard disk, you would create an image of the enite
hard disk as a series of 2GB disk files. The first being a GHO file and then subsequent GHS
files each no more than 2GB.

Assuming the failed hard disk was 20GB with 10GB of free space and the replacement was 30GB,
the non-formatted 30GB hard disk can be installed in the notebook, you would boot off a
created Ghost Boot Disk and you would restore the image to the new hard disk. Now the
system will be exactly as it was (a clone) except that it will be on a 30GB hard disk with
20GB of free space.

When you create a Ghost Boot Disk you have options on how the disk(s) are to be created.
TCP/IP is one of theose options. You create a Boot Disk associated to the Network Interface
Card (or chip-set) and you would communicate with another PC also booted from a Ghost Boot
Disk associated with its Network Interface Card (or chip-set) and using a master-slave
relation ship you cpuld then image one PC to another over Ethernet and then restore said
image over Ethernet. Obviously the external USB or FireWire hard disk process would be
easier.

You can do it with CD but... You would need many CD's. There is only ~700MB per CD while
there is approx. 4.7GB per DVD. Just like you were getting a an External USB or FireWire
hard disk, you could get an External DVD writer. This way not only can you backup and
retore the system but you will now be able to b\play DVDs and if you have a notebook and a
desktop, you can place this external DVD on the desktop further enhancing its value.
 
A

Anna

My daughter has a Dell 8600 notebook less than a year old with Windows XP
Pro operating system. The HD is making a strange, very infrequent mechanical
noise. Dell sent us a new HD and suggested that she (1) back up the existing
HD, (2) install the new HD, and (3)re-install all of the software. Crap!

Q. Can she simply ghost the existing HD and transfer everything to the new
HD? (The notebook, although noisey at times, is still fully functional.)

Q. Would/should Dell do all of this for me?

Thanks for any and all replies.
Joe Starin

(And Joe later writes...)
Thanks for your reply, P. McCarty. I do not have a ghosting program of any
kind, although it might be a good idea to have one so I can also back up my
other PCs. Suggestions? Joe Starin


Dave Lipman responds...
Ghosting is a good idea *if* the old hard disk is still working and
accessible. Notebooks can be difficult. However if it is Ghost 2003, and
updated to build 793, you can Ghost to CD, DVD or tape drives via FireWire
or USB v2.0 or if the drive on the notebook has a writeable CD or DVD drive.

Otherwise you can do a TCP/IP over-the-wire backup to another PC.

Dell doesn't do this for you under warranty and I don't know if they will do
it or not if
you pay them to do it.
--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm

From: "Joe Starin" <[email protected]>

| Thanks, Dave. I do not have Ghost 2003 or any other ghosting program.
Would
| this program copy everything to, say, an external hard drive if I
purchased
| one? What software would I need to do a TCP/IP over-the-wire backup to
| another PC? Yes, the laptop has a writable CD drive, but is not a DVD
| burner. I'm asking a million questions so this whole process might be
way
| out of my league. Your answers are appreciated.
Joe Starin


David H. Lipman said:
No problem Joe.

If you had an external USB or FireWire hard disk, you would create an
image of the enite hard disk as a series of 2GB disk files. The first
being a GHO file and then subsequent GHS files each no more than 2GB.

Assuming the failed hard disk was 20GB with 10GB of free space and the
replacement was 30GB, the non-formatted 30GB hard disk can be installed in
the notebook, you would boot off a created Ghost Boot Disk and you would
restore the image to the new hard disk. Now the system will be exactly as
it was (a clone) except that it will be on a 30GB hard disk with 20GB of
free space.

When you create a Ghost Boot Disk you have options on how the disk(s) are
to be created. TCP/IP is one of theose options. You create a Boot Disk
associated to the Network Interface Card (or chip-set) and you would
communicate with another PC also booted from a Ghost Boot Disk associated
with its Network Interface Card (or chip-set) and using a master-slave
relation ship you cpuld then image one PC to another over Ethernet and
then restore said image over Ethernet. Obviously the external USB or
FireWire hard disk process would be easier.

You can do it with CD but... You would need many CD's. There is only
~700MB per CD while there is approx. 4.7GB per DVD. Just like you were
getting a an External USB or FireWire
hard disk, you could get an External DVD writer. This way not only can
you backup and retore the system but you will now be able to b\play DVDs
and if you have a notebook and a desktop, you can place this external DVD
on the desktop further enhancing its value.


Joe:
I wonder if all this is getting a bit more complicated than it needs to
be...

1. You plan to install a new Dell HD in your daughter's laptop to replace
what appears to be a failing HD.
2. We'll assume that for the moment the *contents* of the old drive are
sound in that the current drive boots to a Desktop without any problem and
the operating system functions without any known system files corruption.
Fair assumption?
3. You mention purchasing an external HD, presumably a USB one. A fine idea.
4. While the present laptop's HD is functional and you're reasonably assured
there's no problem with the operating system, you can use a disk imaging
program such as the ones mentioned, i.e., Symantec's Norton Ghost 9 (or
Ghost 2003 which is bundled with Ghost 9) or Acronis True Image 8 to "clone"
the contents of the present laptop's drive to the USB EHD. For all practical
purposes, the EHD is now a duplicate of the source disk (although it is not
bootable).
5. Now you remove the old drive and install the new one.
6. Again using your disk imaging program, you then re:clone the contents of
your USBEHD to the new HD you just installed in the laptop.
7. And that's it.

You (your daughter) can now routinely use the USBEHD as a backup device by
systematically cloning the contents of her internal drive to the external
one. It's an ideal backup system for a laptop. I think you also mentioned
you have other PCs, so that you can use the disk imaging program to create &
maintain similar backup systems involving those machines.

I trust I have correctly understood your problem & objective. If not, please
correct me. If I did correctly understand you, and you need step-by-step
instructions re using Ghost 2003 or Acronis True Image, please so indicate
that.
Anna
 
J

Joe Starin

Anna said:
My daughter has a Dell 8600 notebook less than a year old with Windows XP
Pro operating system. The HD is making a strange, very infrequent mechanical
noise. Dell sent us a new HD and suggested that she (1) back up the existing
HD, (2) install the new HD, and (3)re-install all of the software. Crap!

Q. Can she simply ghost the existing HD and transfer everything to the new
HD? (The notebook, although noisey at times, is still fully functional.)

Q. Would/should Dell do all of this for me?

Thanks for any and all replies.
Joe Starin

(And Joe later writes...)
Thanks for your reply, P. McCarty. I do not have a ghosting program of any
kind, although it might be a good idea to have one so I can also back up my
other PCs. Suggestions? Joe Starin


Dave Lipman responds...
Ghosting is a good idea *if* the old hard disk is still working and
accessible. Notebooks can be difficult. However if it is Ghost 2003, and
updated to build 793, you can Ghost to CD, DVD or tape drives via FireWire
or USB v2.0 or if the drive on the notebook has a writeable CD or DVD drive.

Otherwise you can do a TCP/IP over-the-wire backup to another PC.

Dell doesn't do this for you under warranty and I don't know if they will do
it or not if
you pay them to do it.
--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm


Joe Starin





Joe:
I wonder if all this is getting a bit more complicated than it needs to
be...

1. You plan to install a new Dell HD in your daughter's laptop to replace
what appears to be a failing HD.
2. We'll assume that for the moment the *contents* of the old drive are
sound in that the current drive boots to a Desktop without any problem and
the operating system functions without any known system files corruption.
Fair assumption?
3. You mention purchasing an external HD, presumably a USB one. A fine idea.
4. While the present laptop's HD is functional and you're reasonably assured
there's no problem with the operating system, you can use a disk imaging
program such as the ones mentioned, i.e., Symantec's Norton Ghost 9 (or
Ghost 2003 which is bundled with Ghost 9) or Acronis True Image 8 to "clone"
the contents of the present laptop's drive to the USB EHD. For all practical
purposes, the EHD is now a duplicate of the source disk (although it is not
bootable).
5. Now you remove the old drive and install the new one.
6. Again using your disk imaging program, you then re:clone the contents of
your USBEHD to the new HD you just installed in the laptop.
7. And that's it.

You (your daughter) can now routinely use the USBEHD as a backup device by
systematically cloning the contents of her internal drive to the external
one. It's an ideal backup system for a laptop. I think you also mentioned
you have other PCs, so that you can use the disk imaging program to create &
maintain similar backup systems involving those machines.

I trust I have correctly understood your problem & objective. If not, please
correct me. If I did correctly understand you, and you need step-by-step
instructions re using Ghost 2003 or Acronis True Image, please so indicate
that.
Anna
Yes, Anna, that's exactly the situation. My hope is that I can clone (ghost,
image, backup, whatever the verbiage) the contents of the sometimes noisy
(but still booting/working) laptop HD to a soon-to-be-purchased external HD
(temporarily) then back to the laptop's new HD after I install it. Could it
be that simple?

I have never cloned or ghosted or backed up a hard drive so I would need to
get up to speed on that, Anna. I would temporarily be booting from the EHD
at least once, would I not? Thanks for your reply and time.

Joe Starin
 
A

Anna

My daughter has a Dell 8600 notebook less than a year old with Windows XP
Pro operating system. The HD is making a strange, very infrequent mechanical
noise. Dell sent us a new HD and suggested that she (1) back up the existing
HD, (2) install the new HD, and (3)re-install all of the software. Crap!

Q. Can she simply ghost the existing HD and transfer everything to the
new
HD? (The notebook, although noisey at times, is still fully functional.)

Q. Would/should Dell do all of this for me?

Thanks for any and all replies.
Joe Starin

(And Joe later writes...)
Thanks for your reply, P. McCarty. I do not have a ghosting program of
any
kind, although it might be a good idea to have one so I can also back up my
other PCs. Suggestions? Joe Starin


Dave Lipman responds...
Ghosting is a good idea *if* the old hard disk is still working and
accessible. Notebooks can be difficult. However if it is Ghost 2003,
and
updated to build 793, you can Ghost to CD, DVD or tape drives via
FireWire
or USB v2.0 or if the drive on the notebook has a writeable CD or DVD drive.

Otherwise you can do a TCP/IP over-the-wire backup to another PC.

Dell doesn't do this for you under warranty and I don't know if they will do
it or not if
you pay them to do it.
--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm


Joe Starin




of your USBEHD to the new HD you just installed in the laptop.


Joe Starin said:
Yes, Anna, that's exactly the situation. My hope is that I can clone
(ghost,
image, backup, whatever the verbiage) the contents of the sometimes noisy
(but still booting/working) laptop HD to a soon-to-be-purchased external
HD
(temporarily) then back to the laptop's new HD after I install it. Could
it
be that simple?

I have never cloned or ghosted or backed up a hard drive so I would need
to
get up to speed on that, Anna. I would temporarily be booting from the EHD
at least once, would I not? Thanks for your reply and time.

Joe Starin


Joe:
Answering your first question...
Yes, it *is* that simple. Using a disk imaging program such as the one's
we've mentioned, i.e., Ghost or Acronis, it's a relatively simple matter to
make a disk-to-disk clone whereby you clone the contents of your source disk
(the Toshiba in your case) to a destination disk (the USB external hard
drive). So that the cloned drive is (for all practical purposes) an exact
duplicate of your source drive.

As to your second question -- no, you will *not* be booting from your
USBEHD. As I previously explained, a USBEHD is not bootable in an XP
environment. While the external drive *will* contain the contents of your
internal drive after the cloning operation, it is not bootable. But you can
*re:clone* the contents back to the internal drive (in your situation the
new HD) for restoration purposes.

I trust I've made the basic process reasonably clear to you (and hopefully
others interested in this issue).

In response to a request from a computer club, I have prepared step-by-step
instructions for using Symantec's Norton Ghost 2003 version and Acronis True
Image 8 for the purposes we have discussed. Over the years I've used the
Ghost program to perform the disk-to-disk clones. Lately I've been using the
Acronis program because of the many favorable reviews I've come across re
that program. Both are fine programs that do the job. The advantage of the
Acronis program (based on my rather limited experience with it) is that it's
much faster than Ghost re its cloning speed. So that can be an important
factor where one is routinely cloning his/her working HD for backup
purposes. But I say again - both are fine programs.

In using either program, I prefer to work, i.e., perform the cloning
operation, with a bootable floppy disk or bootable CD that one can easily
create in the preferred program. (While you can create a bootable CD in the
Acronis program, there's no capability in that program for creating a single
bootable floppy disk as you can with the Ghost program). My instructions are
tailored to using a bootable floppy disk (Ghost 2003) or bootable CD (both
Ghost & Acronis).

So if you or anyone else is interested in these step-by-step instructions
for either program along the lines I've mentioned, let me know and I'll
include them in another posting.
Anna
 
D

D.Currie

A direct clone from one drive to another is a very simple operation given
the right tools. A little experience also helps. The problem with doing a
clone like that with a laptop is that you normally can't hook up two hard
drives in a laptop, and the laptop drives have a different connector than PC
drives, you can't do the clone in another machine unless you have adapters.

The problem with the experience part is that I've known people who have
cloned the empty drive onto the full one, thus erasing everything.

You might want to weigh the cost of the software and anything else you're
going to need, and the time involved in figuring this out, against the cost
of having a competent tech do the work for you. You might find that it will
be cheaper to pay someone than to buy the software.

On the other hand, if this is something you want to do for the fun of it, or
as a learning experience, make sure you've got the important stuff backed
up, just in case.
 
A

Anna

D.Currie said:
A direct clone from one drive to another is a very simple operation given
the right tools. A little experience also helps. The problem with doing a
clone like that with a laptop is that you normally can't hook up two hard
drives in a laptop, and the laptop drives have a different connector than
PC drives, you can't do the clone in another machine unless you have
adapters.

The problem with the experience part is that I've known people who have
cloned the empty drive onto the full one, thus erasing everything.

You might want to weigh the cost of the software and anything else you're
going to need, and the time involved in figuring this out, against the
cost of having a competent tech do the work for you. You might find that
it will be cheaper to pay someone than to buy the software.

On the other hand, if this is something you want to do for the fun of it,
or as a learning experience, make sure you've got the important stuff
backed up, just in case.


Joe:
As D. Currie has stated, "A direct clone from one drive to another is a very
simple operation given the right tools." And that simplicity extends to
cloning the contents of your laptop's internal drive to a USB/Firewire
external hard drive. As I pointed out in my previous posting(s) on this
issue, the EHD will *not* be bootable. But its contents can be cloned back
to the internal drive for restoration purposes should that need arise. And
this "re:cloning" is no more difficult than the original cloning operation
involving cloning the contents of the internal to the external drive.

The "right tools" in this context would be disk imaging programs such as the
ones I mentioned in my previous posting(s).

D. Currie is correct in that it is not normally practicable to connect two
*internal* HDs in a laptop for disk-to-disk cloning. But in no way should
that dissuade you from using a USB/Firewire EHD as a destination drive for
the clone. As a matter of fact it's desirable for additional security in
that the EHD will ordinarily be disconnected from the laptop except during
the actual cloning operation.

Is there a possibility that things can go wrong as D. Currie states? Of
course. Sure, it's possible that the user will confuse his/her
source/destination disks and clone the wrong drive with disastrous results.
But with a modicum of care in using the software it's nothing to be unduly
concerned about.

We are speaking here not only of a one-time cloning of an "old" drive to a
new one, but using the cloning process as a routine and systematic backup
system, not for the "fun of it" or as a "learning experience". As such,
there is really no need for the average computer user to consider engaging
the services of a technician to "do the work for you". The process involved
is not terribly complex or difficult. There's no reason why the average user
cannot undertake it without undue difficulty.

D. Currie's final comment re backing up critical data before undertaking the
cloning operation is on-the-mark when you first begin using this disk
imaging software for disk-to-disk cloning purposes. It's generally
unnecessary to do so after you've gained a little experience with the
software and are comfortable using it. But that's *always* an option for a
user. If he or she has especially critical data that he or she cannot afford
to lose, then back it up on some removable media before the cloning
operation. And one can always be free to create a second or third, etc.
clone should he/she feel a need for it.

As to the cost of the software, I've seen the Ghost 9 program (including the
2003 version which I use) selling for as little as $19 (online vendor) and
the Acronis True Image program for about $30. Not terribly high prices for
programs with their usefulness. Add to this the cost of a USB or Firewire
external HD, a device that has become so useful in today's personal computer
environment that it's hard to imagine a user without one.
Anna
 
J

Joe Starin

I truly appreciate everyone's thoughtful and detailed responses. I do want
to to learn the process (which is why I and others spend time on these
newsgroups). I'm going to purchase the EHD, imaging software and any needed
cabling and do the deed myself. As mentioned, at least I'll have the HD, SW
and cables to use again. Regards, Joe Starin
 
D

D.Currie

Anna said:
Joe:
As D. Currie has stated, "A direct clone from one drive to another is a
very simple operation given the right tools." And that simplicity extends
to cloning the contents of your laptop's internal drive to a USB/Firewire
external hard drive. As I pointed out in my previous posting(s) on this
issue, the EHD will *not* be bootable. But its contents can be cloned back
to the internal drive for restoration purposes should that need arise. And
this "re:cloning" is no more difficult than the original cloning operation
involving cloning the contents of the internal to the external drive.

The "right tools" in this context would be disk imaging programs such as
the ones I mentioned in my previous posting(s).

D. Currie is correct in that it is not normally practicable to connect two
*internal* HDs in a laptop for disk-to-disk cloning. But in no way should
that dissuade you from using a USB/Firewire EHD as a destination drive for
the clone. As a matter of fact it's desirable for additional security in
that the EHD will ordinarily be disconnected from the laptop except during
the actual cloning operation.

Is there a possibility that things can go wrong as D. Currie states? Of
course. Sure, it's possible that the user will confuse his/her
source/destination disks and clone the wrong drive with disastrous
results. But with a modicum of care in using the software it's nothing to
be unduly concerned about.

We are speaking here not only of a one-time cloning of an "old" drive to a
new one, but using the cloning process as a routine and systematic backup
system, not for the "fun of it" or as a "learning experience". As such,
there is really no need for the average computer user to consider engaging
the services of a technician to "do the work for you". The process
involved is not terribly complex or difficult. There's no reason why the
average user cannot undertake it without undue difficulty.


This is the only part that I disagree with you on, and it may just be that
we have a different concept of what the "average user" is, perhaps because I
make a living fixing other people's computers. Those people, for the most
part, would have great difficulty in even getting the hard drive out of the
laptop, much less setting up the cloning software and using it. Or they have
a fear of working on the computer.

And there are a number of people who could do the work, but have absolutely
no interest in doing it and would rather pay someone else. Much like other
services we pay someone else to do. I *could* change the oil in my car, but
I choose not to -- it's simple easier to go to an oil-change place when it
needs it.

And while cloning a drive is a fine way to back things up, many people don't
need to do that. Some are good about backing up important files to CDs or
network drives, or they don't have anything they care about losing if the
drive crashes.

Some people think working on computers is fun. There's nothing wrong with
that. Some would find this a good learning experience, for future backups,
or just because they want to know more about the computer. Nothing wrong
with that, either. But for someone who finds working on the computer a
terrible chore, there's nothing wrong with paying someone to do the work. A
good technician could get the job done in a short period of time, so
depending on what he/she charges, it could be cheaper than buying the
software, cables, etc. if it's not going to be used later.
 
J

Joe Starin

D.Currie said:
This is the only part that I disagree with you on, and it may just be that
we have a different concept of what the "average user" is, perhaps because I
make a living fixing other people's computers. Those people, for the most
part, would have great difficulty in even getting the hard drive out of the
laptop, much less setting up the cloning software and using it. Or they have
a fear of working on the computer.

And there are a number of people who could do the work, but have absolutely
no interest in doing it and would rather pay someone else. Much like other
services we pay someone else to do. I *could* change the oil in my car, but
I choose not to -- it's simple easier to go to an oil-change place when it
needs it.

And while cloning a drive is a fine way to back things up, many people don't
need to do that. Some are good about backing up important files to CDs or
network drives, or they don't have anything they care about losing if the
drive crashes.

Some people think working on computers is fun. There's nothing wrong with
that. Some would find this a good learning experience, for future backups,
or just because they want to know more about the computer. Nothing wrong
with that, either. But for someone who finds working on the computer a
terrible chore, there's nothing wrong with paying someone to do the work. A
good technician could get the job done in a short period of time, so
depending on what he/she charges, it could be cheaper than buying the
software, cables, etc. if it's not going to be used later.

D. Currie: I've replaced a faulty CD-ROM drive and installed PC cards on my
desktop. Doesn't make me an expert, but I'm confident that I'm at least
average, if not a bit beyond. That being said, another option could simply
be to back up my daughter's important folders and files (I have a list of
what to back up from David H. Lipman -- post of a few months ago for another
purpose), pull the existing HD, install the new HD, then reinstall Windows
XP and other programs. Bonus: no cost other than burning some CDs. Another
bonus: a cleaner, faster notebook. Plus Dell would walk me through the
reinstall process. Thanks for your comments. Joe Starin
 
A

Anna

D.Currie said:
This is the only part that I disagree with you on, and it may just be that
we have a different concept of what the "average user" is, perhaps because
I make a living fixing other people's computers. Those people, for the
most part, would have great difficulty in even getting the hard drive out
of the laptop, much less setting up the cloning software and using it. Or
they have a fear of working on the computer.

And there are a number of people who could do the work, but have
absolutely no interest in doing it and would rather pay someone else. Much
like other services we pay someone else to do. I *could* change the oil in
my car, but I choose not to -- it's simple easier to go to an oil-change
place when it needs it.

And while cloning a drive is a fine way to back things up, many people
don't need to do that. Some are good about backing up important files to
CDs or network drives, or they don't have anything they care about losing
if the drive crashes.

Some people think working on computers is fun. There's nothing wrong with
that. Some would find this a good learning experience, for future backups,
or just because they want to know more about the computer. Nothing wrong
with that, either. But for someone who finds working on the computer a
terrible chore, there's nothing wrong with paying someone to do the work.
A good technician could get the job done in a short period of time, so
depending on what he/she charges, it could be cheaper than buying the
software, cables, etc. if it's not going to be used later.


D. Currie:
Let us be clear about what we are discussing...

We're discussing a poster's query as to how he can transfer the contents of
a (presumably) failing laptop drive to another drive for backup purposes and
then after receiving another poster's recommendation that he consider a disk
imaging program to accomplish this, the OP muses over the possibility of
also using such an approach to backup his "other PCs".

I recommended that employing a disk imaging program such as the ones
mentioned to "clone" the contents of the laptop's drive to a USB/Firewire
external hard drive would be, in my view, an ideal way to achieve his
objective. And that furthermore, he would be well-served by using those
programs in a routine manner to establish & maintain a systematic backup
system for *all* of his PCs.

Contrary to your statements, the programs mentioned are relatively simple to
use and not beyond the skill of most personal computer users. Indeed, I have
taught 10 year olds how to effectively use the Ghost 2003 program to clone
hard drives in not much more time than their age in years. Is it helpful for
inexperienced users to have some guidance in this area? Of course.
Hopefully, that's the kind of help forums like this will provide. As a
matter of fact I indicated in a previous posting that if anyone desires or
is interested in step-by-step instructions in using the Ghost 2003 program,
I would be pleased to post them.


We are not talking about users repairing automobiles or undertaking auto
lubrication jobs where (in most cases) vehicle owners find it necessary or
more practical to let an "expert" perform the work. I state again - there is
simply no need for most PC users to engage the services of a computer
technician to perform a disk-to-disk copying function such as the one we're
discussing here.And surely the cost of having such work done every time a
user decided to backup his/her system would be outside the economic reach of
virtually every user, no?



You mention in a negative sense the additional cost a user would need to
spend for the software/hardware involved in this disk cloning process. For
the disk imaging software, external hard drive (or additional internal HD),
we're probably talking about an expenditure of about $100 - $150 and
possibly considerably less. Not a trivial amount, to be sure, but certainly
not outside the finances of most PC users I would think. And this
"equipment" would be used time & time again for routine backup operations.
It's certainly more economically feasible than continually purchasing the
services of a computer technician, would you not agree?



By creating a "clone" of one's day-to-day working HD, the user has at hand
an exact
copy of his/her operating system, registry settings, all their programs &
data -- in short *everything* that's on their source drive. What better
backup system can one have? And an added crucial advantage is where the
recipient of one's clone is another internal HD, that drive will be
bootable. (The USBEHD is not bootable in an
XP environment).

Now, are there many computer users for whom this disk cloning process is
"overkill"? Of course. We are certainly aware that there are many, many
computer users who use their PCs for the most mundane & trivial tasks
(albeit important to them!) and have little or no interest in maintaining a
backup system. Obviously we're not trying to reach such persons. Just the
ones who seek knowledge in this area or raise plaintive calls for help on
newsgroups such as this one, as Mr. Starin did.



My advice still stands - for a practical, near-failsafe backup system that's
relatively easy to use and effective in its results, users should consider
employing a disk imaging program for disk-to-disk cloning of their hard
drives.

Anna
 
D

David H. Lipman

From: "Joe Starin" <[email protected]>


|
| D. Currie: I've replaced a faulty CD-ROM drive and installed PC cards on my
| desktop. Doesn't make me an expert, but I'm confident that I'm at least
| average, if not a bit beyond. That being said, another option could simply
| be to back up my daughter's important folders and files (I have a list of
| what to back up from David H. Lipman -- post of a few months ago for another
| purpose), pull the existing HD, install the new HD, then reinstall Windows
| XP and other programs. Bonus: no cost other than burning some CDs. Another
| bonus: a cleaner, faster notebook. Plus Dell would walk me through the
| reinstall process. Thanks for your comments. Joe Starin


Joe:

I'm glad you kept that information ;-)

Please refresh my memory -- Wasn't that in a WinME News Group ?

If it was, there are some differences in locations to what specific folders to backup and
restore on the destination PC in Win2K/WinXP vs. Win9x/ME. If you need that information for
WinXP, I will be happy to provide it to you.
 
J

Joe Starin

Yes, David, that was for an ME machine. Thanks for checking back in. Your
XP-specific info would be welcome. Joe
 
D

David H. Lipman

From: "Joe Starin" <[email protected]>

| Yes, David, that was for an ME machine. Thanks for checking back in. Your
| XP-specific info would be welcome. Joe
|

OK Joe... You got it.

Let's first assume the user logs on as 'Joe' { I know its your daughter, this is simpler }

Login to the notebook as; Joe

Execute; %temp%

Delete all the files and folders in the TEMP folder.

Dump the contents of the IE Temporary Internet Folder cache (TIF)
Start --> Settings --> Control Panel --> Internet Options --> Delete Files

Login as another account, any account other than 'Joe'.

The folder of data is...
C:\Documents and Settings\Joe

Burn a CDROM of that folder ( and all data below it ) or copy to some other media.

After you re-install the OS on the replacement drive, login to the newly installed OS as
'Joe'.

Now logoff.

The folder; C:\Documents and Settings\Joe should now exist.

Login as another account, any account other than 'Joe'.

Now copy the 'Joe' folder from the media you backed to the the folder; C:\Documents and
Settings\.

Everything from the Joe folder down should now get overwritten with data from the backup.

If the backup media is a ZIP disk, hard disk or other Read-Write media you are good to go.

If the backup media is a CDROM, Go to the folder; C:\Documents and Settings\Joe
Choose from the pull-down menu; Edit --> Select all
{ This should choose all the folders below 'Joe' }

Choose; Properties
Unckeck; Read-only
Choose; Apply
Check; Apply changes to the selected items, subfolders and files
Choose; Ok

As you can see, the process is much easier if you backup to a hard diak and not a CDROM.

You can now install all applications. Since the user's data structures and Registry
information has been restored, after installing all the applications, all the applications
will inherit the previous settings made by your daughter.

Any questions ? Please ask.
 
D

D.Currie

Joe Starin said:
D. Currie: I've replaced a faulty CD-ROM drive and installed PC cards on
my
desktop. Doesn't make me an expert, but I'm confident that I'm at least
average, if not a bit beyond. That being said, another option could simply
be to back up my daughter's important folders and files (I have a list of
what to back up from David H. Lipman -- post of a few months ago for
another
purpose), pull the existing HD, install the new HD, then reinstall Windows
XP and other programs. Bonus: no cost other than burning some CDs. Another
bonus: a cleaner, faster notebook. Plus Dell would walk me through the
reinstall process. Thanks for your comments. Joe Starin

You're definitely above average the way I look at it. Most computers have
never cracked the case open and have no intention of ever doing so.
 

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