Replacement ATX Power Supply

[rubenz1967]

My existing power supply, 300W ATX, on a generic box died. The 3.3V
and 12V output are dead. Capactitors appeared to be leaking anyway.
The MB is an MSI 815ET Pro and I am running a 1.13 PIII.

I want to buy one of the $20 power supplies from Newegg. With free
shipping, seems a good deal. The problem is that there are a bunch of
these available. What models in this price range should I consider?
The unit is sitting on my desk, would be nice to get a quiet one.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...egory=58&Description=atx+power+supply&Ntk=all

Does it make sense to get one of the newer 24 pin power supplies and an
adapter so I can someday use this unit in a newer board?

 

[Paul]

My existing power supply, 300W ATX, on a generic box died. The 3.3V
and 12V output are dead. Capactitors appeared to be leaking anyway.
The MB is an MSI 815ET Pro and I am running a 1.13 PIII.

I want to buy one of the $20 power supplies from Newegg. With free
shipping, seems a good deal. The problem is that there are a bunch of
these available. What models in this price range should I consider?
The unit is sitting on my desk, would be nice to get a quiet one.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...egory=58&Description=atx+power+supply&Ntk=all

Does it make sense to get one of the newer 24 pin power supplies and an
adapter so I can someday use this unit in a newer board?

I know this isn't fair, but I think you should read the 100+ reviews
of the very cheapest product. Then decide if going cheap is a good
idea or not. This is the kind of product I would not leave plugged
in, if I had to leave the room:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/CustratingReview.asp?Item=N82E16817182001

"the first one i bought lasted a month,the second one lasted a week,
so i bought one more it lasted 9 days.im going to buy a different
brand power supply,mabe somthing wrong with the computer that keeps
frying the power supplies." LOL. High comedy... Think of the
savings by buying four supplies...

In this potential rubbish price range, I'd go for Sparkle, FSP Group
(Fortron Source), and I see one AcBel, all of which might be a few
dollars more.

Take a look at the reviews on this one. No need to inform your
house fire insurance company, that you bought a new power
supply, when you buy one of these. I know it is way over your
budget at $25.50, but it does have a few agency approvals, which
is better than nothing. Read the reviews.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103428

When you buy your new motherboard some day, treat yourself to
a real power supply. If you buy a 300 watter, there is no guarantee
you'll be reusing it on a new system with a higher power load
spec. Unless you know exactly what you will be building in the
future, it is pretty hard to make the right choice now. One
or two high power video cards can make quite a difference
to the calculation of the power supply needed. Your Sparkle can
always be kept as a spare, suitable for use in debugging system
problems in the future.

Paul

 

[gary]

Rubenz1

The lower cost power supplies seem to be noisier than the more
expensive ones. Also, the newer power supplies with 24 pin are usually
20+4 so they can be used with old or newer motherboards without a
problem. I would recommend spending a few more dollars

Regards,

Gary Hofferman
Consolidated CD-ROM Inc
www.consolidatedcdrom.com

 

[philo]

Rubenz1

The lower cost power supplies seem to be noisier than the more
expensive ones. Also, the newer power supplies with 24 pin are usually
20+4 so they can be used with old or newer motherboards without a
problem. I would recommend spending a few more dollars

Yep, so would I.
If you need to save money when building a machine...
the two areas I've found that you should never skimp on is RAM and power
supplies

 

[rubenz1967]

"Mr. Sparkle" it is.

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

My existing power supply, 300W ATX, on a generic box died. The 3.3V
and 12V output are dead. Capactitors appeared to be leaking anyway.
The MB is an MSI 815ET Pro and I am running a 1.13 PIII.

I want to buy one of the $20 power supplies from Newegg. With free
shipping, seems a good deal. The problem is that there are a bunch of
these available. What models in this price range should I consider?

Pay $10-20 more and get something made by Fortron-Source because the
quality is a lot higher and the power rating is honest. I don't know
how much power your CPU needs, but your mobo uses the +5.0V rail to run
it, so get an older design PSU with a high +5.0V and +3.3V combined
power rating, at least 175W, because many newer PSUs instead emphaize
the +12V rail(s) and may not be adequate for your system. Here are
some of NewEgg's Fortron models that are suitable:

300W Power Q ATX-300GU:
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103483
300W Sparkle ATX-300GT:
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103428
300W Fortron ATX-300GT-S:
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104933
350W Power Q ATX-350GU:
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103484
350W Sparkle FSP350-60PN:
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103486

Some of the above don't even have a square ATX12V connector for mobos
that use two power connectors and run the CPU off the +12V rail, and
with such mobos you do need that connector because most have no other
+12V connection to the CPU voltage regulator.

OTOH you probably don't want the PSU below because it's a newer design
optimized for +12V power, and its combined +5.0V and +3.3V rating is
just 120W, meaning it's probably not suitable for mobos like yours,
especially with such a fast PIII CPU:

300W Sparkle ATX-300PA ATX12V
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103514

This one has a 20/24 adjustable power connector, a 4-pin ATX12V
connector, and may possibly be suitable for your mobo. I say "may"
because its combined +3.3V and +5.0V power rating is 150W, which could
be marginal if you add a fast AGP graphics card:

400W Sparkle ATX-400PN-B204:
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103013

 

[rubenz1967]

Good analysis. Based on what you are saying the 300W Fortron
ATX-300GT-S may be the way to go. Thanks.

 

[rubenz1967]

My old PS was a 250W Powerman, which apparently is the P in the FSP
line. I may very well replace the leaking caps on it to see if that
will bring it back to life.

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

My old PS was a 250W Powerman, which apparently is the P in the FSP
line. I may very well replace the leaking caps on it to see if that
will bring it back to life.

Powerman used to be made by Fortron-Source Power, but the newer ones
are by InWin, or at least the same company that makes PSUs for InWin,
and not as good. The InWins use a SG6105 controller chip, while many
Fortrons have a KA3511 chip on a small separate vertical circuit board.

 

[rubenz1967]

I'll take a closer look at the IC to see who made it, I would like to
avoid buying from the same people that made this one. There are three
3300uf/10V caps that are leaking topside and two resistors that look
burnt out. I am going to replace them and see what happens.

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

(e-mail address removed) wrote:

I'll take a closer look at the IC to see who made it, I would like to
avoid buying from the same people that made this one. There are three
3300uf/10V caps that are leaking topside and two resistors that look
burnt out. I am going to replace them and see what happens.

It's possible that newer Fortrons like your 120mm fan unit use a
different chip.

I think the only way to avoid bad capacitors is to buy a Seasonic,
Delta, Lite-On, or Enermax. The first three brands have Japanese caps,
while Enermax uses JPcon PC-TURs that apparently don't fail much (one
tech said he never saw a cap failure in an Enermax). Even PC Power &
Cooling uses Teapos, just as Fortron does.

 

[rubenz1967]

The model no for the PSU is FSP250-60GTA, apparently made by SPI
(sparkle) and also widely sold as an Aopen. The chip is the KA3511.
The leaking caps are Jamicon. So much for going by the number of
approving authorities when buying a PSU... The parts can be had for
around $2, I'm going to give it a shot next time I do a parts order.

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

The model no for the PSU is FSP250-60GTA, apparently made by SPI
(sparkle) and also widely sold as an Aopen. The chip is the KA3511.
The leaking caps are Jamicon. So much for going by the number of
approving authorities when buying a PSU... The parts can be had for
around $2, I'm going to give it a shot next time I do a parts order.

I think the approvals only indicate that the product won't cause
injury, such as from electric shock or fire, not that they're of good
quality. Even Deer, maker of some of the worst PSUs, is always
approved by several authorities.

I haven't seen Jamicon on any lists of bad caps, but I also haven't
seen them on any list for good caps either. Jamicon denied being
affected by the faulty electrolyte scandal, claiming that all its
electrolytes were bought from Japan,.but many Japanese companies have
denied supplying Taiwan companies that have made the same claim.

Here is a technical article from 2004, linked from www.badcaps.net,
about the capacitor problem:

www.dfrsolutions.com/Articles/2004_Electrolyte_Hillman.Helmold.pdf

It gives me the impression that caps have failed not only from bad
electrolyte, which is supposedly a thing of the past, but also from
aluminum contaminated with excessive copper, a problem that still
exists. Maybe this is why some people replace all their caps with
Japanese ones, even in equipment that's almost brand new. $2 seems
like very cheap insurance

 

[kony]

The model no for the PSU is FSP250-60GTA, apparently made by SPI
(sparkle) and also widely sold as an Aopen. The chip is the KA3511.
The leaking caps are Jamicon. So much for going by the number of
approving authorities when buying a PSU... The parts can be had for
around $2, I'm going to give it a shot next time I do a parts order.

Did you consider that the whole reason it may have failed
could be due to it being underspec for the system?

Those 250W came-with-case PSU are not anywhere near as well
built as today's _retail_ 350W Sparkles. Sparkle like other
manufacturers builds several lines of PSU and with most
manufacturers, only buying the name instead of detailed
analysis of whether the unit is actually appropriate,
matters. Even so, for a practically free (since it came
with case) PSU, it has lasted a fair # of years, certainly
the cost/benefit of it was good.

Just be sure replacement caps are particularly low ESR.
Typical Radio Shack caps won't do.

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

Did you consider that the whole reason it may have failed
could be due to it being underspec for the system?

Those 250W came-with-case PSU are not anywhere near as well
built as today's _retail_ 350W Sparkles. Sparkle like other
manufacturers builds several lines of PSU and with most
manufacturers, only buying the name instead of detailed
analysis of whether the unit is actually appropriate, matters.

Every Fortron-Source PSU I've seen of any given power rating and fan
size was virtually idential inside, except that the budget brands, like
Hi-Q and PowerQ, had sleeve bearing fans. FSP PSUs vary a lot, lot
less internally than those from Channel Well Technology and
HEC/Heroichi, which range from very good to poor.

 

[rubenz1967]

The application is on an MSI 6337 board with a 1.13 GHz, harddrive,
cdrom, floppy, and network card. Video and sound are built in. 250W
should be enough I would think.

These are the caps I had in mind:

http://www.nichicon-us.com/english/seihin/pdfs/e-pw.pdf

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

The application is on an MSI 6337 board with a 1.13 GHz, harddrive,
cdrom, floppy, and network card. Video and sound are built in. 250W
should be enough I would think.

These are the caps I had in mind:

http://www.nichicon-us.com/english/seihin/pdfs/e-pw.pdf

Those Nichicon PWs should make the PSU last practically forever, but if
you use different Nichicons, beware that over at BadCaps.net it was
mentioned that Nichicon HM and HN caps should be avoided because some
were overfilled and will fail prematurely.

 

[eight]

Every Fortron-Source PSU I've seen of any given power rating and fan
size was virtually idential inside, except that the budget brands, like
Hi-Q and PowerQ, had sleeve bearing fans. FSP PSUs vary a lot, lot
less internally than those from Channel Well Technology and
HEC/Heroichi, which range from very good to poor.

Virtually, but really?

Comparing yesteryears 250W came-with-case to today's retail models I'm
also considering the two most common failure points, the caps and fan.
There are still some FSP PSU that unfortunately use the crap Yate Loon
sleeve bearing fans (like their 12cm fan models) but quite a few now
have the vastly superior NMB fans.

I tend to relube fans if they're worth two drops of (lube), but Yate
Loons I just throw away.

 

[eight]

The application is on an MSI 6337 board with a 1.13 GHz, harddrive,
cdrom, floppy, and network card. Video and sound are built in. 250W
should be enough I would think.

These are the caps I had in mind:

http://www.nichicon-us.com/english/seihin/pdfs/e-pw.pdf

It's not the wattage, it's the 5V rail current than counts.

For a 1GHz plus CPU based platform (yours barely qualifies), I'd use
better than a came-with-case 250W from any brand except maybe PC Power
& Cooling or Delta.

Those Nichicon caps are fairly good, should do the job. There are
better though, if you can get them locally for a cost-savings they're a
deal but online even lower ESR from most major brands, exist.

Also, do not necessarily try to match the same specs. Ideally (since
PSU board real-estate is probably cramped), you'd get the same diameter
but the tallest cap available in the line you choose. IF your PSU had
10mm diameter caps but could fit 12.5 mm, do so, and get tallest still.
The cost difference is pennies but a larger cap (even in same family)
will certaily outperform in the most important parameters.

 

[UCLAN]

For a 1GHz plus CPU based platform (yours barely qualifies), I'd use
better than a came-with-case 250W from any brand except maybe PC Power
& Cooling or Delta.

And your reasons why not are...?