removing heatsink with Arctic Silver Ceramique...?

[gimp]

when assembling my system i used a thermaltake cooler with arctic silver
ceramique. if i want to try out a new heatsink can it actually be
removed...? the specs on ceramique say it can be cleaned off and doesn't
mention adhesive properties... but i've tried and although it swivels a
bit indicating its not set like glue, its seems pretty stuck on there...
i don't want to pull too hard and tear my Athlon64 to shreds... hmm what
to do.

 

[carl]

are you sure that you have used ceramique, and not Arctic Silver Thermal
Epoxy?

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Thermal_Materials_27.html

 

[gimp]

are you sure that you have used ceramique,

yes. it came in the 2.7g tube as shown on that link.

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Anton_G=FFsen?=]

when assembling my system i used a thermaltake cooler with arctic silver
ceramique. if i want to try out a new heatsink can it actually be
removed...? the specs on ceramique say it can be cleaned off and doesn't
mention adhesive properties... but i've tried and although it swivels a
bit indicating its not set like glue, its seems pretty stuck on there...
i don't want to pull too hard and tear my Athlon64 to shreds... hmm what
to do.

I think all the heat over the months/years must have hardened it on.

I had the same problem while removing a heatsink from a P4 which had
Arctic Silver 3 on it, I wrenched the heatsink and processor (one unit)
out of the socket, and had to use a craft knife to get the buggers
apart, upon doing so the CPU fell several feet to the floor, bending
several pins. I haven't tested that processor, I hope it still works!

Anyway, my advice to you is to run a torture test on the processor for a
decent time, that should make it easier to get off. Failing that: use
some violence

Anton

 

[gimp]

I had the same problem while removing a heatsink from a P4 which had
Arctic Silver 3 on it, I wrenched the heatsink and processor (one unit)
out of the socket[snip]

yeah if the ceramique is stuck on how come it doesn't pull my cpu right
out of the socket - i guess there must be a cpu lever which i can't
reach/see.

i'll get the cpu heat up a bit and then try it

 

[gimp]

removed it heh it pulled the cpu right out despite the fact the lever
was closed... at least it works ok with the new cooler which is good
bizarely enough the cpu slid off easy sideways, just doesn't seem to
come off vertically with that ceramique stuff.

 

[Oxford Systems]

when assembling my system i used a thermaltake cooler with arctic silver
ceramique. if i want to try out a new heatsink can it actually be
removed...? the specs on ceramique say it can be cleaned off and doesn't
mention adhesive properties... but i've tried and although it swivels a
bit indicating its not set like glue, its seems pretty stuck on there... i
don't want to pull too hard and tear my Athlon64 to shreds... hmm what to
do.

Try letting the system run for a while until the heatsink is good and warm
but not so hot that you can't handle it. Then disassemble quickly.

 

[GSV Three Minds in a Can]

removed it heh it pulled the cpu right out despite the fact the
lever was closed... at least it works ok with the new cooler which is
good bizarely enough the cpu slid off easy sideways, just doesn't
seem to come off vertically with that ceramique stuff.

That's due to surface tension + vacuum/air pressure effect .. haven't
you ever stuck two sheets of window glass together using plain tap
water? If you can achieve a really good seal you get ~15lbs Sq Inch ..
i.e. a ton per square foot!

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Anton_G=FFsen?=]

removed it heh it pulled the cpu right out despite the fact the lever
was closed.

Yeah, that's what happened to me (see above). I'm amazed that it doesn't
damage the socket.

 

[Richard Hopkins]

Yeah, that's what happened to me (see above). I'm amazed that it
doesn't damage the socket.

Heh, the ZIF socket closure is designed only to create a decent contact, not
hold the CPU into the socket (that's partly why LGA775 looks the way it
does).
--


Richard Hopkins
Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom
(replace .nospam with .com in reply address)

The UK's leading technology reseller www.dabs.com
Get the most out of your digital photos www.dabsxpose.com

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Anton_G=FFsen?=]

in message...



Heh, the ZIF socket closure is designed only to create a decent contact,
not hold the CPU into the socket (that's partly why LGA775 looks the way
it does).

LGA775 is strange, I think Intel have lost the plot at the moment, and
I'm as much of an Intel fanboy as the next person, I'm typing this on a
3.06ghz P4 which I'm very pleased with.

I mean, why bother changing to some strange T-shaped socket when the old
socket technology is tried and tested. After all, Athlon64s seem to be
alright, don't they?

 

[Richard Hopkins]

LGA775 is strange, I think Intel have lost the plot at the moment,

Intel are definitely on a bit of a downer at the mo, but that's down to
their desktop CPU design not panning out. The LGA775 package is actually one
of the better things they've done this year!

I mean, why bother changing to some strange T-shaped socket

It's square, really, despite the nickname! ;-)

After all, Athlon64s seem to be alright, don't they?

Just wait and see what AMD's *next* package looks like!

The reasons behind LGA775 looking the way it does are numerous, and they're
for the better - largely for Intel, but for end users too. Probably the most
important advance is that the CPU is held in the socket from the top, and
the structural integrity of the entire motherboard-socket-CPU-heatsink
sandwich is much improved. The changes greatly reduce the chance of the
heatsink breaking away from the board and taking the processor with it.

The fact that the pins are on the motherboard instead of the processor also
makes the CPU's cheaper to make, and shifts warranty responsibility for pin
failures away from Intel to the board manufacturers, which is obviously a
good thing for Intel.
--


Richard Hopkins
Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom
(replace .nospam with .com in reply address)

The UK's leading technology reseller www.dabs.com
Get the most out of your digital photos www.dabsxpose.com

 

[Tony Hill]

when assembling my system i used a thermaltake cooler with arctic silver
ceramique. if i want to try out a new heatsink can it actually be
removed...? the specs on ceramique say it can be cleaned off and doesn't
mention adhesive properties... but i've tried and although it swivels a
bit indicating its not set like glue, its seems pretty stuck on there...
i don't want to pull too hard and tear my Athlon64 to shreds... hmm what
to do.

Let the system run for a good 10-15 minutes, ideally actually doing
something that will make the CPU work for a bit (one of those
distributed computing programs should do the trick, or a quick round
of your favorite game). After the stuff has heated up it should come
free with no trouble. Alternatively you can use a hair dryer to heat
it up.

 

[keith]

in message...

Intel are definitely on a bit of a downer at the mo, but that's down to
their desktop CPU design not panning out. The LGA775 package is actually one
of the better things they've done this year!

LGAs aren't new. Thre's a reason they haven't been used in the PC market
though. Decent LGA sockets aren't cheap. I'd want to see how this one
plays for a while before jumping on.

It's square, really, despite the nickname! ;-)


Just wait and see what AMD's *next* package looks like!
Ok...

The reasons behind LGA775 looking the way it does are numerous, and
they're for the better - largely for Intel, but for end users too.
Probably the most important advance is that the CPU is held in the
socket from the top, and the structural integrity of the entire
motherboard-socket-CPU-heatsink sandwich is much improved. The changes
greatly reduce the chance of the heatsink breaking away from the board
and taking the processor with it.

Huh? Have you looked at the Opteron stack? If the fansink goes west,
it's taking the board, or a good portion, with it. The fansink is
screwed down to the board.

The fact that the pins are on the motherboard instead of the processor
also makes the CPU's cheaper to make, and shifts warranty responsibility
for pin failures away from Intel to the board manufacturers, which is
obviously a good thing for Intel.

.....but has no benefit to the end user, other than another place for the
board maker (the one making close to nothing) to screw up. Again, there
is good reason LGA's didn't make it to the PC space before. This is a
definite wait-n-see.

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Anton_G=FFsen?=]

in message...



Intel are definitely on a bit of a downer at the mo, but that's down to
their desktop CPU design not panning out. The LGA775 package is actually
one of the better things they've done this year!



It's square, really, despite the nickname! ;-)

Square, but the pins are in a "T" shaped arrangement, IIRC.

Just wait and see what AMD's *next* package looks like!

Do you know something that every else doesn't?

The reasons behind LGA775 looking the way it does are numerous, and
they're for the better - largely for Intel, but for end users too.
Probably the most important advance is that the CPU is held in the
socket from the top, and the structural integrity of the entire
motherboard-socket-CPU-heatsink sandwich is much improved. The changes
greatly reduce the chance of the heatsink breaking away from the board
and taking the processor with it.

That does sound like a good idea, I was put off LGA775 when I heard that
you could only take the CPU in and out of the socket 20 or so times. I
don't know how accurate that is.
Although I'll admit I don't know much about LGA775.

The fact that the pins are on the motherboard instead of the processor
also makes the CPU's cheaper to make, and shifts warranty responsibility
for pin failures away from Intel to the board manufacturers, which is
obviously a good thing for Intel.

Indeed. Cheaper CPUs = happy customers.

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Anton_G=FFsen?=]

in message...



Intel are definitely on a bit of a downer at the mo, but that's down to
their desktop CPU design not panning out. The LGA775 package is actually
one of the better things they've done this year!



It's square, really, despite the nickname! ;-)

Square, but the pins are in a "T" shaped arrangement, IIRC.

Just wait and see what AMD's *next* package looks like!

Do you know something that every else doesn't?

The reasons behind LGA775 looking the way it does are numerous, and
they're for the better - largely for Intel, but for end users too.
Probably the most important advance is that the CPU is held in the
socket from the top, and the structural integrity of the entire
motherboard-socket-CPU-heatsink sandwich is much improved. The changes
greatly reduce the chance of the heatsink breaking away from the board
and taking the processor with it.

That does sound like a good idea, I was put off LGA775 when I heard that
you could only take the CPU in and out of the socket 20 or so times. I
don't know how accurate that is.
Although I'll admit I don't know much about LGA775.

The fact that the pins are on the motherboard instead of the processor
also makes the CPU's cheaper to make, and shifts warranty responsibility
for pin failures away from Intel to the board manufacturers, which is
obviously a good thing for Intel.

Indeed. Cheaper CPUs = happy customers.

Anton

 

[George Macdonald]

Huh? Have you looked at the Opteron stack? If the fansink goes west,
it's taking the board, or a good portion, with it. The fansink is
screwed down to the board.

Agree - the heatsink frame attached to the mbrd has been around for a while
with Athlon64 and Intel CPUs. I haven't seen a P4 up close but the
Athlon64 has a reinforcing plate under the mbrd.

....but has no benefit to the end user, other than another place for the
board maker (the one making close to nothing) to screw up. Again, there
is good reason LGA's didn't make it to the PC space before. This is a
definite wait-n-see.

I think LGA775 and its retention mechansim may be a preamble to BTX -
no?... and on looking at BTX with an eye to the future, it appears to me
that it could be a preamble to more proprietary system integration...
ultimately, maybe even some form of encapsulated multi-chip "module",
including graphics, MCH and IOCH, for the mass market at least. How else
is Intel going to compete?;-) They've been dreaming of a SOC since 1986 or
so but the pace of CPU advances, due to competition, has precluded it.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

[keith]

That does sound like a good idea, I was put off LGA775 when I heard that
you could only take the CPU in and out of the socket 20 or so times. I
don't know how accurate that is.
Although I'll admit I don't know much about LGA775.

Tha't always been the problem with LGA sockets. LGA is basically a BGA
wihtout the Bs.

Indeed. Cheaper CPUs = happy customers.

Why? First, the cost of the package has nothing to do with the price
you pay (cost <> price). Second, if the cost of the connector is
transferred from the processor to the motherboard, how does that help you?

 

[Rob Stow]

Tha't always been the problem with LGA sockets. LGA is basically a BGA
wihtout the Bs.




Why? First, the cost of the package has nothing to do with the price
you pay (cost <> price). Second, if the cost of the connector is
transferred from the processor to the motherboard, how does that help you?

And if there are pins to be broken, I'd as soon have
them broken on a CPU. It takes a heck of a lot less
time to replace a CPU than it takes for a motherboard swap.

Breaking a pin off a CPU socket would be a real ... umm ...
annoyance after you told the customer that his server would
only be down for ten minutes while you upgraded the
processors and added some RAM. You almost always have
a spare CPU on hand, but even if you have a spare
motherboard on hand it can cost the customer a lot of money
if his server is down for an hour instead of the 10 minutes
you promised him. The price difference between a
CPU and a motherboard can be trivial in that situation.

 

[Richard Hopkins]

Square, but the pins are in a "T" shaped arrangement, IIRC.

They're not really "pins", they're fingers. IIRC the "Socket T" nickname
originally came from the fact that the hole in the top of the CPU retainer
is sorta "T"-shaped.

Do you know something that every else doesn't?

Yes and no. Intel's transition to this design is nothing more than a logical
side effect of increasing pin counts and decreasing CPU package sizes. More
connections in a smaller package means higher pin density, so you have to
cram the pin, insulation and (if you keep the ZIF socket) all the contacts
and sliding stuff into ever decreasing spaces. Intel obviously decided the
time was right to re-evaluate things, and design something that'll work for
the current and a number of future generations of CPU's.

So yes, as AMD's CPU's are also transitioning to smaller packages and larger
pin counts, it's only a matter of time before they adopt a similar design.
Probably sooner rather than later, seeing as Intel have now done all the
R&D, and taken the initial lumps for daring to reinvent the wheel.

That does sound like a good idea, I was put off LGA775 when I
heard that you could only take the CPU in and out of the socket 20
or so times. I don't know how accurate that is.

Just another bullshit scare story that stupid people like to spread. This
all comes from Intel specifying that the design should be capable of at
least 20 successful insert/extract procedures. It doesn't mean that your
socket will self-destruct the 21st time you pull the chip out.

The thing the stupid people forget to mention is that Socket 478, Socket
370, Socket 7, basically every ZIF socket Intel ever designed was also only
ever specified for 20 operations, so in this respect it's no worse any any
of its predecessors. Provided you're not ham-fisted or simply unlucky,
there's no reason to expect you'd have problems with it.
--


Richard Hopkins
Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom
(replace .nospam with .com in reply address)

The UK's leading technology reseller www.dabs.com
Get the most out of your digital photos www.dabsxpose.com