RAID 0 Raptors as system drives, Samsung for storage?

[Dave H.]

Tearing my hair out selecting components for a new general purpose
system based on an Epox 4PDA2+.

My current 8KHA+ system uses 2 - 40 gb Maxtor D740X's for system and
storage and though reliable, are dreadfully slow. I would like to
achieve faster Win2kpro boot times and application start-ups (Agent,
Firebird, etc.) and was thinking 2 WD360GD Raptors in Raid 0 would
fill the bill. Perhaps that is overkill and a single 360 would be
sufficient? I've no experience with RAID.

Samsung has a good reputation for quietness, so I'm thinking the
SP0802N 80 GB HD may be a good choice for data storage.

Quietness is a goal. Tom's reports the Raptor drives are pretty good
in this area. True? I'll be using an Antec Sonata, SLK3700BQE, or
1040. Don't know which--case selection has been the most difficult
decision by far, followed by mobo.
Dave

So far:
4PDA2+
P4 2.8C
1gig PC3200 Crucial (overkill?)
Zalman CNPS7000A Cu HSF (overkill?)
Lite-on CDRW
Samsung floppy
...and the rest

 

[Wayne Youngman]

My current 8KHA+ system uses 2 - 40 gb Maxtor D740X's for system and
storage and though reliable, are dreadfully slow. I would like to
achieve faster Win2kpro boot times and application start-ups (Agent,
Firebird, etc.) and was thinking 2 WD360GD Raptors in Raid 0 would
fill the bill. Perhaps that is overkill and a single 360 would be
sufficient? I've no experience with RAID.

Hi,

I just bought 2 x 36GB Raptors for the same reasons. Didn't install them
yet (building another PC for brother!). From everything I seen and read,
the Raptors are great drives, albeit a little pricey. I'm still deciding on
a suitable drive/s for storage (Need one for video editing saves, and
another for other data). My first choice for DATA drive would be a WD-SE
120/160GB, my second choice would be the SAMSUNG Spinpoint series. I'm a
big fan of WD, but the SAMSUNG is slightly better value! (value lol from a
person that bought 2 xRaptors )

 

[Dave H.]

Hi,

I just bought 2 x 36GB Raptors for the same reasons. Didn't install them
yet (building another PC for brother!). From everything I seen and read,
the Raptors are great drives, albeit a little pricey. I'm still deciding on
a suitable drive/s for storage (Need one for video editing saves, and
another for other data). My first choice for DATA drive would be a WD-SE
120/160GB, my second choice would be the SAMSUNG Spinpoint series. I'm a
big fan of WD, but the SAMSUNG is slightly better value! (value lol from a
person that bought 2 xRaptors )

Wayne,
I've been looking at WD's latest models and have used them in the past
with success, but of all the drives I've used, only WDs have failed.
Of course this is anecdotal.

The WD JB series with 8 megs cache are attractive. I thought of using
2 of these PATA drives in RAID 0 for system drives, but have been
somewhat dissuaded by quite a few negative reports in Newegg's
reviews, which I realize are not scientific. Seagate's Barracuda
series gets high marks, but there are reports of increasing noise as
they age.

Almost all our drives are currently Maxtor and I wanted to try
something different. I desperately want to finalize my selections and
place an order with Egg so let me know how it goes. Thanks,
Dave

 

[Wayne Youngman]

Wayne,
I've been looking at WD's latest models and have used them in the past
with success, but of all the drives I've used, only WDs have failed.
Of course this is anecdotal.

The WD JB series with 8 megs cache are attractive. I thought of using
2 of these PATA drives in RAID 0 for system drives, but have been
somewhat dissuaded by quite a few negative reports in Newegg's
reviews, which I realize are not scientific. Seagate's Barracuda
series gets high marks, but there are reports of increasing noise as
they age.

Hi,
on the last system I built I used 2 x120GB WD-SE SATA in a RAID-0 config,
very nice indeed. 227GB of SATA 7,2000rpm, 16Mb cache RAID-0 is a real
step-up from anything I ever used before in my *humble* I.T journeys. The
motherboard I was using had an *add-in* PCI SATA RAID thingies (Silicon
Image), and this held back the full power of the beasts

I have ordered/received all the parts for my new system build (P4 2.6GHz-1GB
PC3200-i865PE-2xRaptor) but I didn't have time to build it yet (working
still on other machines). I believe the *native* INTEL ICH5R implementation
of SATA RAID-0 is gonna be well good. I used allot of Maxtors, and seen
them die, very scary for me, you I tend to avoid them myself. Having said
that I do read allot of good reviews about the Maxtor Diamond Max Plus9
series, looks like real bang-4-buck stuff, but you know how it goes. . .
once bitten twice shy! (like you and WD!).

Peace. .

 

[Dave H.]

Hi,
on the last system I built I used 2 x120GB WD-SE SATA in a RAID-0 config,
very nice indeed. 227GB of SATA 7,2000rpm, 16Mb cache RAID-0 is a real
step-up from anything I ever used before in my *humble* I.T journeys. The
motherboard I was using had an *add-in* PCI SATA RAID thingies (Silicon
Image), and this held back the full power of the beasts

I have ordered/received all the parts for my new system build (P4 2.6GHz-1GB
PC3200-i865PE-2xRaptor) but I didn't have time to build it yet (working
still on other machines). I believe the *native* INTEL ICH5R implementation
of SATA RAID-0 is gonna be well good. I used allot of Maxtors, and seen
them die, very scary for me, you I tend to avoid them myself. Having said
that I do read allot of good reviews about the Maxtor Diamond Max Plus9
series, looks like real bang-4-buck stuff, but you know how it goes. . .
once bitten twice shy! (like you and WD!).

Peace. .

Wayne,
Very interesting! Your yet-to-be-assembled system is obviously very
similar to the one I'm considering--P4, Raptor Raid 0, 865PE, etc.
Care to be specific about mobo and ram? Anandtech reports 865PE likes
the cost-effective Crucial PC3200. I almost went with Intel's
D865PERLL but didn't because of reports of excessive heating on mobo
zone 2, whatever that means. I've had good success with AMD but didn't
want to deal with the heat issues this time--to the extent that that
is actually a problem--and wanted something new, so it's a P4 for this
iteration.

The 865PE seems to be superb chipset and the Epox 4PDA2+ gets
uniformly high marks--plus our good experience with our 2 current Epox
machines. Looked at DFI, Asus, MSI, Abit. Also adding an impulsively
selected Sapphire ATI Radeon 9000Pro vid card and existing Turtle
Beach Santa Cruz sound card. ... Plus a Zalman CNPS7000A Cu cooler.
Now THAT may be retched overkill in a non-OCed system.

I have a Sonata case in house--from Cacophonous City. Very chic and
understated--120mm fans, but a bit small. I Like the sheer volume of
the Antec 1040. I've looked at 40 million cases. It is mind boggling.
Every town should have a store dedicated to nothing but cases so that
a look-see can be had. Mobos PCUs and RAM do not require an in-person
inspection. Cases do. A tactial-mechanical thing. Your case(s)?
Current systems are in terribly utilitarian but adequate Enlight
cases.

I just RMAed an entire 2500+ Barton, Asus A7N8X-E-Deluxe system back
to Newegg. This P4/Epox/Raptor proposed system is a second attempt.
That Asus machine simply fought me every inch of the way. You can
eventually tell if a system is going to sail and that one wasn't going
to. Maybe my skills, which are adequate but not much more, were the
problem. Driver conflicts--blah. That returned Asus system included a
Coolmaster Praetorian Al case. Very seductive and attractive, but I
discovered that I do not care for the feel of Aluminum cases. Rattle
boxes--amplify every jot of HD seek noise. Stripped threads. Blech.
Give me cast iron. Who cares about weight unless you're a LanParty
aficionado or carry the case on your head?

Which OS are you running? I've been a Win2kpro guy for some years.
Stable and predictable, but have no idea of what is involved with
getting it cooperate with RAID 0. I've yet to master the theoretical
RAID academics--will do so when I get there. Probably a bad plan.
I'll go to XP if I have to; but every XP I've ever seen has been slow.
Dave

 

[Eric Gisin]

RAID 0 is overhyped. A single 10K drive is your best choice.

 

[Wayne Youngman]

Care to be specific about mobo and ram?

Hi,

ABIT AI7 Motherboard
1GB (2x512) OCZ EL 3200 Platinum *Limited Edition*
2 x 36GB Raptor

It's killing me having this stuff here, but I have to complete building 2
AMD machines before I can start mine!

 

[Rod Speed]

Very interesting! Your yet-to-be-assembled system is obviously very
similar to the one I'm considering--P4, Raptor Raid 0, 865PE, etc.
Care to be specific about mobo and ram? Anandtech reports 865PE likes
the cost-effective Crucial PC3200. I almost went with Intel's
D865PERLL but didn't because of reports of excessive heating on mobo
zone 2, whatever that means. I've had good success with AMD but didn't
want to deal with the heat issues this time--to the extent that that
is actually a problem--and wanted something new, so it's a P4 for this
iteration.

The 865PE seems to be superb chipset and the Epox 4PDA2+ gets
uniformly high marks--plus our good experience with our 2 current Epox
machines. Looked at DFI, Asus, MSI, Abit. Also adding an impulsively
selected Sapphire ATI Radeon 9000Pro vid card and existing Turtle
Beach Santa Cruz sound card. ... Plus a Zalman CNPS7000A Cu cooler.
Now THAT may be retched overkill in a non-OCed system.

I have a Sonata case in house--from Cacophonous City. Very chic and
understated--120mm fans, but a bit small. I Like the sheer volume of
the Antec 1040. I've looked at 40 million cases. It is mind boggling.
Every town should have a store dedicated to nothing but cases so that
a look-see can be had.

Bloody low tech. Makes a hell of a lot more sense to
have a few operations that have decent pics of the guts
of the cases so anyone can choose that way instead.

Mobos PCUs and RAM do not require an in-person
inspection. Cases do. A tactial-mechanical thing.

Bullshit. Makes a lot more sense to choose from the basics
the other way and allow cases to be returned if the physical
reality aint anything like the pics suggest the case will be.

Your case(s)? Current systems are in terribly
utilitarian but adequate Enlight cases.

I just RMAed an entire 2500+ Barton, Asus A7N8X-E-Deluxe system back
to Newegg. This P4/Epox/Raptor proposed system is a second attempt.
That Asus machine simply fought me every inch of the way. You can
eventually tell if a system is going to sail and that one wasn't going
to. Maybe my skills, which are adequate but not much more, were the
problem. Driver conflicts--blah. That returned Asus system included a
Coolmaster Praetorian Al case. Very seductive and attractive, but I
discovered that I do not care for the feel of Aluminum cases. Rattle
boxes--amplify every jot of HD seek noise. Stripped threads. Blech.
Give me cast iron. Who cares about weight unless you're a LanParty
aficionado or carry the case on your head?

No cases are cast iron. Quite a few are sheet steel instead of aluminium.

 

[Shailesh Humbad]

Don't listen to the RAID-0 Raptor naysayers. I have the setup on my
Asus A7N8x Deluxe Athlon Barton 2500+ (from newegg), and for the price
paid, it rocks. I'll never go back to a single drive again. It was a
breeze to setup, after I finally learned about xxclone XP cloning
software. XP loads in < 15 seconds. Other programs are also zippy.

 

[Eric Gisin]

Like I said, "over hyped". Real testing shows ~20% improvment.

 

[Shailesh Humbad]

Well, if you average the vast variety of usage patterns down to one
general performance test, then a 20% gain sounds about right. But for
a specific application, let say, loading a large game like half-life,
it is much more than that, maybe 50-70%. And if all you play is
games, than you will be happy with RAID-0 and not waiting quite as
long for levels to load.

 

[Dave H.]

Yes, I'm coming to the same conclusion.

What about a PCI to scsi adapter card and one of the < 150$ scsi
drives? I'm assuming a bad idea for someone with modest abilities?
Dave

 

[Dave H.]

Don't listen to the RAID-0 Raptor naysayers. I have the setup on my
Asus A7N8x Deluxe Athlon Barton 2500+ (from newegg), and for the price
paid, it rocks. I'll never go back to a single drive again. It was a
breeze to setup, after I finally learned about xxclone XP cloning
software. XP loads in < 15 seconds. Other programs are also zippy.

I am wondering abouts any special RAID-0 difficulties with Win2kpro?
I gather Service pack 4 upgrades this OS sufficiently.
Dave

 

[Wayne Youngman]

I am wondering abouts any special RAID-0 difficulties with Win2kpro?
I gather Service pack 4 upgrades this OS sufficiently.

Hi,
basically it's a very straight forward thing to set-up RAID-0. There is no
Rocket-Science involved, but if you have never done it before I can
understand the element of fear

Just connect the two hard-drives to the motherboard, boot up the system, at
the BIOS screen for the disks you have to tap some keys to enter (ALT +F4 on
some systems etc). Once in you should be able to see your two separate
drives listed. Now all you need to do it select the *Create Array* option
(something like that) and follow the instructions. You get to choose what
stripe size you want, with 16kb being a good choice for general system
usage. It will then create a RAID-0 array and you exit the disk BIOS. Now
you proceed to install Windows, but hit the F6 key when prompted (this
happens in first 10 secs on window install). That's pretty much it! and
from this point you just deal with *ONE* effective drive. You also have a
choice to install further software once you get Windows installed, to
manage/monitor your array (but this is optional).

I been raiding just 4 months now, no going back, its the only way to FLY!!!!

 

[Dave H.]

Hi,
basically it's a very straight forward thing to set-up RAID-0. There is no
Rocket-Science involved, but if you have never done it before I can
understand the element of fear

Just connect the two hard-drives to the motherboard, boot up the system, at
the BIOS screen for the disks you have to tap some keys to enter (ALT +F4 on
some systems etc). Once in you should be able to see your two separate
drives listed. Now all you need to do it select the *Create Array* option
(something like that) and follow the instructions. You get to choose what
stripe size you want, with 16kb being a good choice for general system
usage. It will then create a RAID-0 array and you exit the disk BIOS. Now
you proceed to install Windows, but hit the F6 key when prompted (this
happens in first 10 secs on window install). That's pretty much it! and
from this point you just deal with *ONE* effective drive. You also have a
choice to install further software once you get Windows installed, to
manage/monitor your array (but this is optional).

I been raiding just 4 months now, no going back, its the only way to FLY!!!!

Well Wayne, I've got 2 Raptors checked on the Newegg form. I do have
a Maxtor ata133 controller card in my present machine driving 2 DL740X
Maxtors and it sounds like the installation procedure is somewhat
similar. If RAID doesn't work out, I'll go with a single Raptor and
put the second in my wifes machine, which will require a PCI-RAID
card.

Think I'll still go with the Samsung Spinpoint 80 gb drive for data
storage as well. There are other candidates but my eyes are going
cross-eyed me.

It all should be very interesting!
Dave

 

[idunno]

RAID 0 is overhyped. A single 10K drive is your best choice.

I agree. RAID 0 only really makes sense for short term, temporary
storage where you are absolutely desperate for throughput that is
beyond today's current drives. It really should be avoided most of
the time. Raid 3, 0+1, & 10 (including IBM's 1E) utilizing spindle
sync make a hell of a lot more sense for a high performance
workstation but can only do so much if the system isn't properly load
balanced. In many cases it's hard to justify the price tag or added
work to setup and maintain such a system. RAID can be more trouble
than it is worth, unless you are experienced and using enterprise
level HW. Consumer level RAID will just give you headaches down the
line.

If you want fast boots you want a plainer config and should be giving
thought to S3 (suspend to ram). It's really a beautiful thing for the
desktop but doesn't play well with all hardware, esp. a lot of RAID
stuff, so as a rule of thumb K.I.S.S.

Personally I'll take 2xCheetah 15K.3's over 1x ATA or SATA RAID 0
array any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Hek, 2 modern PATA
drives might make me happier cause they are cheap, quick, quiet and
easy to work with.

 

[idunno]

Yes, I'm coming to the same conclusion.

What about a PCI to scsi adapter card and one of the < 150$ scsi
drives? I'm assuming a bad idea for someone with modest abilities?
Dave

No it's not a bad idea. It actually makes a lot of sense. Don't
listen to some of the misleading crap on the web, SCSI is very easy to
work with. I find it easier to deal with than ATA. It only becomes
trickey when you are connecting several different types of devices or
mixing old and new devices on the same bus.

Using SCSI for the high performance tasks or important data and ATA
for high capacity cheap storage is a good idea. The best performance
tip is to divide up you data across 2 or more physical drives based on
usage.