Question about XP-to-Vista upgrades


G

Glenn

Before I begin, let me apologize if I'm asking any questions that have
been asked and answered here before. It's been a while since I posted in
the MS Public Newsgroups, but with Vista coming up, and with plans to
upgrade my current system when January 30th rolls around, I started
looking here in the Vista forums to research upgrade options.

My first question is for me. My main concern is not the technical
feasibility of any upgrade to Vista (my current system comfortably
exceeds the minimum requirements for Vista, and meets the "full
experience" criteria as well), but the cost.

I do know from lurking here recently that those who purchase the retail
versions of Windows XP (Home or Pro, Upgrade or Full Install) can
qualify for a reduced-cost upgrade to Vista. The problem is that I want
to buy a retail copy of XP Pro, and then upgrade to Vista Ultimate, but
the retail package upgrade offer will only let XP Pro purchasers upgrade
to Vista Business. I was momentarily disappointed, but then I remembered
Vista Anytime Upgrade, which would let me upgrade Business to Ultimate.
This leads to my first question:

Would purchasing an upgrade from Vista Business to Vista Ultimate
through Vista Anytime Upgrade cost *less* than buying the Vista Ultimate
retail upgrade (MSRP US$259)?

I'm thinking that the Anytime Upgrade would be less expensive, given
that there's only a $100 difference in price between the retail versions
of Business and Ultimate. Am I correct?

My second question is for my brother, who is running an "OEM/System
Builder" copy of XP Pro on his self-built PC. AIUI, OEM/System Builder
versions of XP are "tied" to the components that they're purchased with
(in his case, his PC's motherboard and CPU). If a Vista upgrade were
applied to his XP Pro, would the Vista upgrade then be similarly "tied"
to his PC, prohibiting him from "moving" Vista to a new PC?

TIA. :)
 
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M

MicroFox

If a Vista upgrade were applied to his XP Pro, would the Vista upgrade then
be similarly "tied" to his PC, prohibiting him from "moving" Vista to a new
PC?

Yes, since it is an upgrade of an OEM, if you move it to another PC,
what are you upgrading from then? Nothing?

IN the past you could buy an OEM OS with a cable or a mouse.. however now
they
changed the eula to define what is meant when they say computer. Now your
computer
is defined by the motherboard...

So if you are asking about following the EULA to the letter, nope you
cannot...

If you are asking if it will work... that's another thing you could be
forced to activate by phone....
and you "could" say that your motherboard went out and a comp. tech.
replaced it...
You can pretend you know nothing about all this computer stuff and you just
need your pc to work.. lol

I think in that case the person on the phone would grant you activation....
;-)
Of course you would be lying and that is not honest.
 
A

Alias

MicroFox said:
Yes, since it is an upgrade of an OEM, if you move it to another PC,
what are you upgrading from then? Nothing?

IN the past you could buy an OEM OS with a cable or a mouse.. however now
they
changed the eula to define what is meant when they say computer. Now your
computer
is defined by the motherboard...

Not true with XP. I just bought a generic XP Pro OEM from NewEgg two
weeks ago, no mouse, no cable, no nothing.
So if you are asking about following the EULA to the letter, nope you
cannot...

My EULAs say nothing about a motherboard.
If you are asking if it will work... that's another thing you could be
forced to activate by phone....
and you "could" say that your motherboard went out and a comp. tech.
replaced it...
You can pretend you know nothing about all this computer stuff and you just
need your pc to work.. lol

I think in that case the person on the phone would grant you activation....
;-)
Of course you would be lying and that is not honest.

Considering that no explanation is needed, per MS, other than the code,
there is no need to lie or be dishonest.

Alias
 
D

DCR

First question: As yet there is no pricing info regarding Anytime Upgrade


| Before I begin, let me apologize if I'm asking any questions that have
| been asked and answered here before. It's been a while since I posted in
| the MS Public Newsgroups, but with Vista coming up, and with plans to
| upgrade my current system when January 30th rolls around, I started
| looking here in the Vista forums to research upgrade options.
|
| My first question is for me. My main concern is not the technical
| feasibility of any upgrade to Vista (my current system comfortably
| exceeds the minimum requirements for Vista, and meets the "full
| experience" criteria as well), but the cost.
|
| I do know from lurking here recently that those who purchase the retail
| versions of Windows XP (Home or Pro, Upgrade or Full Install) can
| qualify for a reduced-cost upgrade to Vista. The problem is that I want
| to buy a retail copy of XP Pro, and then upgrade to Vista Ultimate, but
| the retail package upgrade offer will only let XP Pro purchasers upgrade
| to Vista Business. I was momentarily disappointed, but then I remembered
| Vista Anytime Upgrade, which would let me upgrade Business to Ultimate.
| This leads to my first question:
|
| Would purchasing an upgrade from Vista Business to Vista Ultimate
| through Vista Anytime Upgrade cost *less* than buying the Vista Ultimate
| retail upgrade (MSRP US$259)?
|
| I'm thinking that the Anytime Upgrade would be less expensive, given
| that there's only a $100 difference in price between the retail versions
| of Business and Ultimate. Am I correct?
|
| My second question is for my brother, who is running an "OEM/System
| Builder" copy of XP Pro on his self-built PC. AIUI, OEM/System Builder
| versions of XP are "tied" to the components that they're purchased with
| (in his case, his PC's motherboard and CPU). If a Vista upgrade were
| applied to his XP Pro, would the Vista upgrade then be similarly "tied"
| to his PC, prohibiting him from "moving" Vista to a new PC?
|
| TIA. :)
|
| --
| Glenn Shaw | Indianapolis, IN USA
| To reply by e-mail, please switch the net and cast
 
C

Colin Barnhorst

OEM copies of XP are upgradeable-in-place to Vista but only on the machine
the OEM copy of XP is originally installed on. Since an OEM license cannot
be moved to a different device, the Vista upgrade may not be either.

Some OEM copies of Windows are locked to the BIOS of the computer and cannot
be installed on a machine with a different BIOS. They just won't install
period.

According to MS it will always cost you more to purchase XP and then buy an
upgrade edition of Vista than to buy the full edition of Vista you wanted in
the first place.

You cannot use Anytime Upgrade to upgrade from XP to Vista. It is only for
upgrading from one Vista edition to a higher one.

If you buy XP preinstalled and use an upgrade coupon from the manufacturer
to upgrade to Vista Business and then use Anytime Upgrade to upgrade Vista
Business to Ultimate you cannot transfer the copy of Ultimate to another
computer.

If you buy an XP OEM copy (say from NewEgg) and then, use an accompanying
coupon to upgrade to Vista and then use Anytime Upgrade to upgrade to
Ultimate it will cost you more than buying a full Vista Ultimate edition in
the first place.

The above is from a couple of chats on this topic held by the Vista team in
the recent months. I have paraphrased to avoid problems with my NDA. (Yes,
I know some idiot posted his copies of the transcripts on the internet
someplace.)

A couple of points worth noting.

The upgrade coupons offered by manufacturers presently are OEM licenses in
that the coupon will provide you with an upgrade to a preinstalled or OEM
copy of XP. The coupons are NOT equivalent to the retail Vista Upgrade
Editions. The license may not be transferred to another computer the way a
retail license can.

Anytime Upgrade does NOT provide you with a dvd for upgrading that you can
store afterwards for backup. It provides only a certificate which then
unlocks the edition of Vista you want on the dvd you already own. The
certificate needs to be stored for safety in your Digital Locker (hosted on
an MS server).
 
R

Rock

Before I begin, let me apologize if I'm asking any questions that have
been asked and answered here before. It's been a while since I posted in
the MS Public Newsgroups, but with Vista coming up, and with plans to
upgrade my current system when January 30th rolls around, I started
looking here in the Vista forums to research upgrade options.

My second question is for my brother, who is running an "OEM/System
Builder" copy of XP Pro on his self-built PC. AIUI, OEM/System Builder
versions of XP are "tied" to the components that they're purchased with
(in his case, his PC's motherboard and CPU). If a Vista upgrade were
applied to his XP Pro, would the Vista upgrade then be similarly "tied" to
his PC, prohibiting him from "moving" Vista to a new PC?

An upgrade copy, just like XP, can be moved to another system, however, a
qualifying OS is needed and the underlying OEM on the original computer is
not transferrable. Hence there needs to be another qualifying product on
the new computer for the upgrade.

For the pricing issues check with your local discount retailer.
 
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C

Colin Barnhorst

Except that Anytime Upgrade certificates may Not be transferred to another
computer and the OEM upgrade coupons are for OEM upgrades and those are not
transferrable to another computer. Only retail Upgrade Editions can be
transferred to another computer in the manner you describe. In that, of
course, I agree.
 
R

Rock

Except that Anytime Upgrade certificates may Not be transferred to another
computer and the OEM upgrade coupons are for OEM upgrades and those are
not transferrable to another computer. Only retail Upgrade Editions can
be transferred to another computer in the manner you describe. In that,
of course, I agree.

Yes, Colin, thanks for clarifying. I was speaking about the retail upgrade.
 
G

Glenn

Colin said:
OEM copies of XP are upgradeable-in-place to Vista but only on the
machine the OEM copy of XP is originally installed on. Since an OEM
license cannot be moved to a different device, the Vista upgrade may not
be either.

That's what I thought, Colin. This is why I'm planning on getting a full
retail copy of XP Pro -- AIUI, full retail copies *can* be transferred
from PC to PC, so a Vista upgrade to a full retail XP install can
similarly be moved.

My brother will be a little disappointed at this, unless he decides to
buy a full retail copy of XP or whatever version of Vista he decides upon.

According to MS it will always cost you more to purchase XP and then buy
an upgrade edition of Vista than to buy the full edition of Vista you
wanted in the first place.

I fully expected this -- it wouldn't be fair (or good business) to
Microsoft to do otherwise.

Actually, I wasn't wondering if an Anytime Upgrade from Business to
Ultimate to cost less than $100 (the difference between the full
versions of Business and Ultimate), but if it would cost less than $259
(the price of the Ultimate retail upgrade). Paul Thurott suggests that
that may be the case:

"Those who acquire Windows Vista Home Basic, Home Premium, or Business
are eligible for an electronic upgrade to a higher-end Windows Vista
product edition through a new Windows feature called Windows Anytime
Upgrade. While this feature will not be enabled until January 2007,
*Microsoft tells me that the pricing will be a bit less expensive than
buying a retail boxed copy of the Windows Vista Upgrade version in
question.*"

[Emphasis added]

(Source: http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_02.asp)
You cannot use Anytime Upgrade to upgrade from XP to Vista. It is only
for upgrading from one Vista edition to a higher one.

This, I know. AIUI, it's only available from within an activated
legitimate Vista installation, and requires the physical Vista DVD to
install the upgrades (as you pointed out).
The above is from a couple of chats on this topic held by the Vista team
in the recent months. I have paraphrased to avoid problems with my
NDA. (Yes, I know some idiot posted his copies of the transcripts on
the internet someplace.)

And I'm not going to ask about said idiot. IMHO, anyone who breaks an
NDA deserves to wallow in ignominious anonymity (the legal consequences
of breaking the NDA notwithstanding).

Thanks for the help and the information, Colin. :)

Kind regards,
 
C

Colin Barnhorst

You are correct. Retail full and retail upgrade editions are transferrable.
Others are not.
 
M

MicroFox

Is this OEM with SP2?

If it is the original perhaps they have not updated the eula...

what I am saying here was told to me on the XP newsgroups from various
MVPs...
The XPs I got was several years ago... I this is not my personal
experience...


Alias said:
MicroFox said:
Yes, since it is an upgrade of an OEM, if you move it to another PC,
what are you upgrading from then? Nothing?

IN the past you could buy an OEM OS with a cable or a mouse.. however now
they
changed the eula to define what is meant when they say computer. Now your
computer
is defined by the motherboard...

Not true with XP. I just bought a generic XP Pro OEM from NewEgg two weeks
ago, no mouse, no cable, no nothing.
So if you are asking about following the EULA to the letter, nope you
cannot...

My EULAs say nothing about a motherboard.
If you are asking if it will work... that's another thing you could be
forced to activate by phone....
and you "could" say that your motherboard went out and a comp. tech.
replaced it...
You can pretend you know nothing about all this computer stuff and you
just need your pc to work.. lol

I think in that case the person on the phone would grant you
activation.... ;-)
Of course you would be lying and that is not honest.

Considering that no explanation is needed, per MS, other than the code,
there is no need to lie or be dishonest.

Alias
 
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A

Alias

MicroFox said:
Is this OEM with SP2?

Newer than that, SP2B
If it is the original perhaps they have not updated the eula...
Nope.


what I am saying here was told to me on the XP newsgroups from various
MVPs...

LOL! And you believed them?
The XPs I got was several years ago... I this is not my personal
experience...

Well, now you know that the new ones are the same as the old ones and
MVPs, especially a certain C.F., lie in favor of you buying a "full
retail copy".

Alias
 
M

MicroFox

I don't know what mvps would gain to say such a lie....

perhaps they intended to do the change for vista ?

I don't know... much discussion has been made about
what Microsoft defines as a computer and if you can buy an OEM
with a mouse.. etc....

My theory is that there is no actual "computer" that OEM should be tied to..
since you can upgrade components one by one, over a long period of time, and
avoiding activation problems.. slowly you could end up with a new
computer... lol

Also it is a fact that some components can die... but you can keep the
rest.. so why tie windows to a motherboard for instance?

When I posted this thought on the newsgroups the MVPS did not have any clue
what I was talking about.



Alias said:
MicroFox said:
Is this OEM with SP2?

Newer than that, SP2B
If it is the original perhaps they have not updated the eula...
Nope.


what I am saying here was told to me on the XP newsgroups from various
MVPs...

LOL! And you believed them?
The XPs I got was several years ago... I this is not my personal
experience...

Well, now you know that the new ones are the same as the old ones and
MVPs, especially a certain C.F., lie in favor of you buying a "full retail
copy".

Alias
 
R

Roy Coorne

Colin Barnhorst schrieb:
....
Anytime Upgrade does NOT provide you with a dvd for upgrading that you
can store afterwards for backup. It provides only a certificate which
then unlocks the edition of Vista you want on the dvd you already own.
The certificate needs to be stored for safety in your Digital Locker
(hosted on an MS server).
....

This statement should be underlined!


Roy
 
A

Alias

MicroFox said:
I don't know what mvps would gain to say such a lie....

Brownie points.
perhaps they intended to do the change for vista ?

No, they've been doing it long before Vista was a gleam in Gates eye.
I don't know... much discussion has been made about
what Microsoft defines as a computer and if you can buy an OEM
with a mouse.. etc....

MS doesn't define what a computer is. Read you EULA.
My theory is that there is no actual "computer" that OEM should be tied to..
since you can upgrade components one by one, over a long period of time, and
avoiding activation problems.. slowly you could end up with a new
computer... lol

The only old thing on two of my computers are the cases. I've been
upgrading them since 03.
Also it is a fact that some components can die... but you can keep the
rest.. so why tie windows to a motherboard for instance?

It isn't tied to anything. Read the EULA.
When I posted this thought on the newsgroups the MVPS did not have any clue
what I was talking about.

There you go, my point is proved.

Alias
 
G

Glenn

Colin said:
Rock wrote...

An upgrade copy, just like XP, can be moved to another system,
however, a qualifying OS is needed and the underlying OEM on the
original computer is not transferrable. Hence there needs to be
another qualifying product on the new computer for the upgrade.

Except that Anytime Upgrade certificates may Not be transferred to
another computer [....]

Hmm. Your comment brings up another question, Colin:

My original plan was to do the following:

1) Purchase the full retail version of XP Pro and install it on my PC.
2) Obtain the "coupon upgrade" to Vista Business, and apply the upgrade.
3) Use Anytime Upgrade to bring the install up to Vista Ultimate.

But if I understand you correctly, I cannot transfer Vista Ultimate,
which was obtained through an Anytime Upgrade, to another system -- I
could only transfer Vista Business, which was upgraded from a "portable"
OS (XP Pro Retail). Am I correct?

(If so, it would probably be better for me to pass on getting XP Pro
retail now, and wait until the end of January and get the full retail
version of Vista Ultimate.)

TIA,
 
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C

Colin Barnhorst

The Anytime Upgrade team told us in a chat that the certificate is good only
on the origianl machine and that the way to transfer an upgraded system was
with image software. Imaging software do not cure licensing issues,
however.

In all of the chats where this has come up, MS has repeatedly said that the
purchase of Ultimate full would always be less expensive than the purchase
XP full + Ultimate Upgrade Edition or any combination involving an Anytime
Upgrade certificate. The bottom line seems to be to buy the full edition of
Ultimate up front. The breaker for your original plan is that the Express
Upgrade coupons don't come with retail copies of XP.

Now, there is a new development. The Technology Guarantee Programs For
Microsoft Office & Windows. Recent purchases of retail editions of XP Pro
are now eligible for a free upgrade to Vista Business ($9.95 shipping).
However, this does not get you to Ultimate either and you are back to
Anytime Upgrade and the shipping period is still 4 to 6 weeks after Vista
launch. See:
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/techguarantee/northamerica.mspx
You have to proceed through the order procedures to get to the terms and
conditions. Read them.

Glenn said:
Colin said:
Rock wrote...

An upgrade copy, just like XP, can be moved to another system, however,
a qualifying OS is needed and the underlying OEM on the original
computer is not transferrable. Hence there needs to be another
qualifying product on the new computer for the upgrade.
Except that Anytime Upgrade certificates may Not be transferred to
another computer [....]

Hmm. Your comment brings up another question, Colin:

My original plan was to do the following:

1) Purchase the full retail version of XP Pro and install it on my PC.
2) Obtain the "coupon upgrade" to Vista Business, and apply the upgrade.
3) Use Anytime Upgrade to bring the install up to Vista Ultimate.

But if I understand you correctly, I cannot transfer Vista Ultimate, which
was obtained through an Anytime Upgrade, to another system -- I could only
transfer Vista Business, which was upgraded from a "portable" OS (XP Pro
Retail). Am I correct?

(If so, it would probably be better for me to pass on getting XP Pro
retail now, and wait until the end of January and get the full retail
version of Vista Ultimate.)

TIA,
 
G

Glenn

Colin said:
Now, there is a new development. The Technology Guarantee Programs For
Microsoft Office & Windows. Recent purchases of retail editions of XP
Pro are now eligible for a free upgrade to Vista Business ($9.95
shipping).

This was what I was referring to when I mentioned a "coupon upgrade". I
just spaced on the proper name for this offer, is all. <^^;;;
However, this does not get you to Ultimate either and you are
back to Anytime Upgrade and the shipping period is still 4 to 6 weeks
after Vista launch.

Ouch. "4 to 6 weeks after Vista launch" is late February to mid-March,
assuming a January 30th launch date. Another plan breaker.

I'd better get Vista Ultimate Full Retail on 1/30/07, then.

Thanks for your help, Colin. :)
 
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C

Colin Barnhorst

You're welcome.

Glenn said:
This was what I was referring to when I mentioned a "coupon upgrade". I
just spaced on the proper name for this offer, is all. <^^;;;


Ouch. "4 to 6 weeks after Vista launch" is late February to mid-March,
assuming a January 30th launch date. Another plan breaker.

I'd better get Vista Ultimate Full Retail on 1/30/07, then.

Thanks for your help, Colin. :)
 
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