Printing...Beer to Jason... and Linux!

[StrandElectric]

First of all, I tried Jason's code and it works fine! Thanks Jason. You
qualify for the virtual case of Aussie Beer!

I'm now going to experiment with the following before coming up here and
crying 'help!':

printer dialogue (to verify choice of printer)
setting portrait/landscape at will
aligning decimal points

Meanwhile, here's a throw from the left field. Obviously (?) compiled exes
in vb.net will not work with Linux because they rely on the Net framework.
Right? But vb6 would? So is this another attempt by Micro$oft to crush
competition, or is it my usual lack of knowledge?

 

[Tom Shelton]

StrandElectric wrote on 1/25/2011 :

First of all, I tried Jason's code and it works fine! Thanks Jason. You
qualify for the virtual case of Aussie Beer!

I'm now going to experiment with the following before coming up here and
crying 'help!':

printer dialogue (to verify choice of printer)
setting portrait/landscape at will
aligning decimal points

Meanwhile, here's a throw from the left field. Obviously (?) compiled exes in
vb.net will not work with Linux because they rely on the Net framework.
Right? But vb6 would? So is this another attempt by Micro$oft to crush
competition, or is it my usual lack of knowledge?

http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page

You will see primarily references to C# - and C# is the one that
primarily is targeted... But there is a fairly complete VB.NET
implemetnation as well in mono - though, I wouldn't count on your stuff
working very well.

As for mono, most things work - with the exception of com and p/invoke
of windows specific dll's... you can do p/invoke in mono, you just
have to call linux native functions

 

[Tom Shelton]

StrandElectric presented the following explanation :

First of all, I tried Jason's code and it works fine! Thanks Jason. You
qualify for the virtual case of Aussie Beer!

I'm now going to experiment with the following before coming up here and
crying 'help!':

printer dialogue (to verify choice of printer)
setting portrait/landscape at will
aligning decimal points

Meanwhile, here's a throw from the left field. Obviously (?) compiled exes in
vb.net will not work with Linux because they rely on the Net framework.
Right? But vb6 would? So is this another attempt by Micro$oft to crush
competition, or is it my usual lack of knowledge?

Oh, and by they way, MS has been workign with these guys to implement
Silverlight on Linux using Mono as the core runtime for that platform.
On linux, Silverlight is Moonlight...

 

[Mayayana]

As Tom said, Mono maybe sorta works. The same
goes for VB6 if it is run through Wine. I haven't tried
Wine for some time. Last time I did it worked surprisingly
well for most things, but not well enough for much of
anything. It works best with straight Windows API.

Unfortunately, Linux is a project perennially under
construction and never quite finished. The same goes
for Wine. The programmers who volunteer to work
on these things do it for the challenge, or to get their
favorite games onto Linux. They don't much care
whether the mainstream can actually use Linux. That's
not the fault of Microsoft.

At any rate, Microsoft is making great strides in setting
up a protection racket around Linux. First they threatened
Linux companies with patent lawsuits and claimed they
need a license from MS. MS refused to say exactly what
patents they claim are being infringed upon, but Novell
(and I think RedHat?) nevertheless made a deal with them.
More recently, Microsoft is part of
a group trying to buy up Novell patents as part of the
Novell sale. It's widely believed that Novell holds a number
of Linux-relevant patents. So there's a good chance
that MS will end up getting away with demanding
protection money on Linux installs sometime down the
road. I suspect that gives them mixed feelings about
trying to block Linux. Windows and Office are the only
things they actually make money on, and with those
it's only because of their monopoly position. (After all,
one can buy a new PC for the price of a Windows Pro.
disk. It's selling for probably about 10 times what it's
worth.)
A Linux "monopoly" could provide a way for Microsoft to
adapt to the future while keeping their basic business
model.

"Nobody" linked to freepascal.org the other day in the
VB group. I don't know much about it, but it looks quite
interesting as a possible way to write Windows software
in a way that can pay off later on Linux.

|
| Meanwhile, here's a throw from the left field. Obviously (?) compiled exes
| in vb.net will not work with Linux because they rely on the Net framework.
| Right? But vb6 would? So is this another attempt by Micro$oft to crush
| competition, or is it my usual lack of knowledge?
|
|

 

[Tom Shelton]

Mayayana submitted this idea :

As Tom said, Mono maybe sorta works.

LOL... Only for VB based code. It works quite well for C# windows
based apps. The only issues you run into are if you are:
1) a retard and hardcode your paths
2) use com
3) call windows api's

All should be obvious stuff... It in fact works better the VB6 and
Wine.

The same
goes for VB6 if it is run through Wine. I haven't tried
Wine for some time. Last time I did it worked surprisingly
well for most things, but not well enough for much of
anything. It works best with straight Windows API.

Unfortunately, Linux is a project perennially under
construction and never quite finished. The same goes
for Wine. The programmers who volunteer to work
on these things do it for the challenge, or to get their
favorite games onto Linux. They don't much care
whether the mainstream can actually use Linux. That's
not the fault of Microsoft.

At any rate, Microsoft is making great strides in setting
up a protection racket around Linux. First they threatened
Linux companies with patent lawsuits and claimed they
need a license from MS. MS refused to say exactly what
patents they claim are being infringed upon, but Novell
(and I think RedHat?) nevertheless made a deal with them.

Novell did, RedHat didn't.

More recently, Microsoft is part of
a group trying to buy up Novell patents as part of the
Novell sale. It's widely believed that Novell holds a number
of Linux-relevant patents. So there's a good chance
that MS will end up getting away with demanding
protection money on Linux installs sometime down the
road. I suspect that gives them mixed feelings about
trying to block Linux. Windows and Office are the only
things they actually make money on, and with those
it's only because of their monopoly position. (After all,
one can buy a new PC for the price of a Windows Pro.
disk. It's selling for probably about 10 times what it's
worth.)
A Linux "monopoly" could provide a way for Microsoft to
adapt to the future while keeping their basic business
model.

"Nobody" linked to freepascal.org the other day in the
VB group. I don't know much about it, but it looks quite
interesting as a possible way to write Windows software
in a way that can pay off later on Linux.

I guess it's an option. Never really learned pascal in depth - or had
any reason too.

 

[Cor]

Mayayana,

I've always thought that in the USA the same rules for patents are followed
as here.

For sure after the sample Edison (GE) who has the name to be an inventor,
but became in fact rich by in many cases only registering all kind of
patents.

A patent can here only be registered if it is provable that what has to be
patented is never be used by anybody else.

So therefore Linux which is freeware, and therefore endless used by more
persons, and patents are a contradiction for me.

What do I miss?

Cor

"Mayayana" wrote in message
As Tom said, Mono maybe sorta works. The same
goes for VB6 if it is run through Wine. I haven't tried
Wine for some time. Last time I did it worked surprisingly
well for most things, but not well enough for much of
anything. It works best with straight Windows API.

Unfortunately, Linux is a project perennially under
construction and never quite finished. The same goes
for Wine. The programmers who volunteer to work
on these things do it for the challenge, or to get their
favorite games onto Linux. They don't much care
whether the mainstream can actually use Linux. That's
not the fault of Microsoft.

At any rate, Microsoft is making great strides in setting
up a protection racket around Linux. First they threatened
Linux companies with patent lawsuits and claimed they
need a license from MS. MS refused to say exactly what
patents they claim are being infringed upon, but Novell
(and I think RedHat?) nevertheless made a deal with them.
More recently, Microsoft is part of
a group trying to buy up Novell patents as part of the
Novell sale. It's widely believed that Novell holds a number
of Linux-relevant patents. So there's a good chance
that MS will end up getting away with demanding
protection money on Linux installs sometime down the
road. I suspect that gives them mixed feelings about
trying to block Linux. Windows and Office are the only
things they actually make money on, and with those
it's only because of their monopoly position. (After all,
one can buy a new PC for the price of a Windows Pro.
disk. It's selling for probably about 10 times what it's
worth.)
A Linux "monopoly" could provide a way for Microsoft to
adapt to the future while keeping their basic business
model.

"Nobody" linked to freepascal.org the other day in the
VB group. I don't know much about it, but it looks quite
interesting as a possible way to write Windows software
in a way that can pay off later on Linux.

|
| Meanwhile, here's a throw from the left field. Obviously (?) compiled exes
| in vb.net will not work with Linux because they rely on the Net framework.
| Right? But vb6 would? So is this another attempt by Micro$oft to crush
| competition, or is it my usual lack of knowledge?
|
|

 

[Mayayana]

| A patent can here only be registered if it is provable that what has to be
| patented is never be used by anybody else.
|
| So therefore Linux which is freeware, and therefore endless used by more
| persons, and patents are a contradiction for me.
|
| What do I miss?
|

I don't know how freeware fits with patents. That's
an interesting question. But I don't think that I'm
free to manufacture widgets to give away for free
if they use patented tech. And for-profit is hard to
define. Freebies can be good marketing. In any case,
money is being made on Linux -- server sales, support,
custom configurations, etc. Red Hat is profitable.

Ptents have become an increasingly hot issue in tech.
circles. Slashdot runs frequent stories about
absurd patents. All of the big companies assign
people to getting more patents for the company
portfolio. It's a sort of arms race. Some companies
do it to make money. Others do it to protect
themselves from "patent trolls". Here's a recent,
frivolous Apple patent (they were given the US patent)
on "sexting":

http://apple.slashdot.org/story/10/10/13/1615251/slashdot.sourceforge.net

And here's an article from this month, about how IBM is
trying to patent patenting:

http://slashdot.org/story/11/01/02/1534223/IBM-Files-the-Patent-Troll-Patent

The list goes on and on. Lately Microsoft is
threatening Android. Look up:
patent google android microsoft

Microsoft can threaten Android with saber rattling
alone, if it causes Android-using companies to worry
about a lawsuit. In a recent article I read the author
mused that Google might be vulnerable because
they don't have as many patents as Microsoft does.

The US patent office is notoriously incompetent.
A few years ago there was a famous case where
they awarded a patent for one-click buying online.
I've forgotten who got the patent. (Amazon, maybe?)
But since then anyone who clicks a "Buy Now" button
on another website must be redirected to at least
1 superfluous page, because the process of having
a 1-link checkout is patented! ...What I can't figure is
why no one has tried to grab the 2-click and 3-click
patents. A half dozen companies could make it impossible
for anyone else to have online commerce.

For Linux, just look up: SCO Linux

SCO has lost their lawsuit, but it dragged on for
years.

What Microsoft did in the case of their Linux licensing
protection racket was to annouce that they "believe"
Linux infringes on their patents. Linux people said,
"Tell us which ones and if you're right we'll fix it". MS
refused to say which ones. That's why I described it as
a protection racket, because that's exactly what it is.
Microsoft have as much as said so themselves. They
offered to sell licensing deals to Linux companies: "Pay us
part of your profits and you won't get hurt." What is such
a Linux company buying? They're buying protection. They
can't be buying patent licenses because Microsoft hasn't
demonstrated that they even have such patents.

| A patent can here only be registered if it is provable
| that...

I'm afraid that you Europeans are far more civilized
than we Americans. You've had more time to sort it out,
and each European country has an ethnic, land-based
identity that provides some sense of community. Thus
there's a sense of "the common good". By
contrast, the US is more like a big campground. People
come and go. The only community we have is TV,
nationalism, sports, and the national lottery games.
It wasn't long ago that it was common in the US for rural
towns to be essentially owned by their founders, or by
a local company. For decades Bell telephone had total
control over telephony and forced people to rent phones.

The US is basically a plutocracy, expressed in large
part as a corporatocracy. (As some US president or other
famously put it: "The business of America is business.")

Bill Gates and Warren Buffet go on "educational TV"
here to advise young people about how to succeed in life.
Because Bill and Warren are wise? No. Because they're
filthy rich!

US regulation is designed to make sure that rich people
stay rich. Thus the function of the US patent office is to
allow wealthy people and corporations to control business
profits. One could hardly say that a patent on 1-click
shopping is "rewarding creativity that serves the public
good".

I read recently that Facebook is adapting to German
privacy rules, and that an Italian consumer group is
suing Microsoft over the "Windows tax". (Microsoft
pressures PC makers to pre-install
Windows on all PCs, even if people don't want it. A few
years back they conducted a crusade to stamp out
"white box" makers by threatening them, saying that a
PC without Windows is an invitation to theft of Windows.
[That, despite the fact that MS sells full version and
OEM Windows install CDs through retail channels.]
When a buyer of HP or Dell asks MS for a refund they're
told that their Windows license came from HP or Dell.
HP and Dell, in turn, make it nearly impossible to buy
a non-Windows PC. Dell had a Linux PC for awhile, but it
was hidden on their website and cost more than a
Windows PC.)

The EU has become so civilized and humane in contrast
to the US that we Americans now have to depend on
globalism and the EU to rein in corporate greed. It's not
just tech. Genetically modified crops are another good
example. The US allows patenting of biological organisms!
Monsanto threatens to sue farmers for using unlicensed
corn seed because their fields get infected with GM Monsanto
pollen. The farmers then have no choice but to switch to
GM corn! I currently buy unrefined corn oil for salad dressing
that comes from Romania. Since they're now in the EU they
come under EU regulation. I don't know for sure whether
Romanian grain is safe, but I do know that non-organic US
grain has built-in pesticide and that buying it supports
Monsanto. And organic corn seems to be absent
from the US market.

(I might have to write in Neelie Kroes for President in our
next election, given the way things are going.

 

[Tom Shelton]

Tom Shelton laid this down on his screen :

Mayayana submitted this idea :

LOL... Only for VB based code. It works quite well for C# windows based
apps. The only issues you run into are if you are:
1) a retard and hardcode your paths
2) use com
3) call windows api's

That is a little misleading. You can have issues with winforms - but,
it's pretty rare now. Winforms hasn't changed for a few versions now,
and the mono api has become pretty stable and complete now.

 

[Cor]

Mayayana,

Thanks for that.

Are you sure making babies in a biological way is not yet patented in the
USA.



Cor

"Mayayana" wrote in message
| A patent can here only be registered if it is provable that what has to be
| patented is never be used by anybody else.
|
| So therefore Linux which is freeware, and therefore endless used by more
| persons, and patents are a contradiction for me.
|
| What do I miss?
|

I don't know how freeware fits with patents. That's
an interesting question. But I don't think that I'm
free to manufacture widgets to give away for free
if they use patented tech. And for-profit is hard to
define. Freebies can be good marketing. In any case,
money is being made on Linux -- server sales, support,
custom configurations, etc. Red Hat is profitable.

Ptents have become an increasingly hot issue in tech.
circles. Slashdot runs frequent stories about
absurd patents. All of the big companies assign
people to getting more patents for the company
portfolio. It's a sort of arms race. Some companies
do it to make money. Others do it to protect
themselves from "patent trolls". Here's a recent,
frivolous Apple patent (they were given the US patent)
on "sexting":

http://apple.slashdot.org/story/10/10/13/1615251/slashdot.sourceforge.net

And here's an article from this month, about how IBM is
trying to patent patenting:

http://slashdot.org/story/11/01/02/1534223/IBM-Files-the-Patent-Troll-Patent

The list goes on and on. Lately Microsoft is
threatening Android. Look up:
patent google android microsoft

Microsoft can threaten Android with saber rattling
alone, if it causes Android-using companies to worry
about a lawsuit. In a recent article I read the author
mused that Google might be vulnerable because
they don't have as many patents as Microsoft does.

The US patent office is notoriously incompetent.
A few years ago there was a famous case where
they awarded a patent for one-click buying online.
I've forgotten who got the patent. (Amazon, maybe?)
But since then anyone who clicks a "Buy Now" button
on another website must be redirected to at least
1 superfluous page, because the process of having
a 1-link checkout is patented! ...What I can't figure is
why no one has tried to grab the 2-click and 3-click
patents. A half dozen companies could make it impossible
for anyone else to have online commerce.

For Linux, just look up: SCO Linux

SCO has lost their lawsuit, but it dragged on for
years.

What Microsoft did in the case of their Linux licensing
protection racket was to annouce that they "believe"
Linux infringes on their patents. Linux people said,
"Tell us which ones and if you're right we'll fix it". MS
refused to say which ones. That's why I described it as
a protection racket, because that's exactly what it is.
Microsoft have as much as said so themselves. They
offered to sell licensing deals to Linux companies: "Pay us
part of your profits and you won't get hurt." What is such
a Linux company buying? They're buying protection. They
can't be buying patent licenses because Microsoft hasn't
demonstrated that they even have such patents.

| A patent can here only be registered if it is provable
| that...

I'm afraid that you Europeans are far more civilized
than we Americans. You've had more time to sort it out,
and each European country has an ethnic, land-based
identity that provides some sense of community. Thus
there's a sense of "the common good". By
contrast, the US is more like a big campground. People
come and go. The only community we have is TV,
nationalism, sports, and the national lottery games.
It wasn't long ago that it was common in the US for rural
towns to be essentially owned by their founders, or by
a local company. For decades Bell telephone had total
control over telephony and forced people to rent phones.

The US is basically a plutocracy, expressed in large
part as a corporatocracy. (As some US president or other
famously put it: "The business of America is business.")

Bill Gates and Warren Buffet go on "educational TV"
here to advise young people about how to succeed in life.
Because Bill and Warren are wise? No. Because they're
filthy rich!

US regulation is designed to make sure that rich people
stay rich. Thus the function of the US patent office is to
allow wealthy people and corporations to control business
profits. One could hardly say that a patent on 1-click
shopping is "rewarding creativity that serves the public
good".

I read recently that Facebook is adapting to German
privacy rules, and that an Italian consumer group is
suing Microsoft over the "Windows tax". (Microsoft
pressures PC makers to pre-install
Windows on all PCs, even if people don't want it. A few
years back they conducted a crusade to stamp out
"white box" makers by threatening them, saying that a
PC without Windows is an invitation to theft of Windows.
[That, despite the fact that MS sells full version and
OEM Windows install CDs through retail channels.]
When a buyer of HP or Dell asks MS for a refund they're
told that their Windows license came from HP or Dell.
HP and Dell, in turn, make it nearly impossible to buy
a non-Windows PC. Dell had a Linux PC for awhile, but it
was hidden on their website and cost more than a
Windows PC.)

The EU has become so civilized and humane in contrast
to the US that we Americans now have to depend on
globalism and the EU to rein in corporate greed. It's not
just tech. Genetically modified crops are another good
example. The US allows patenting of biological organisms!
Monsanto threatens to sue farmers for using unlicensed
corn seed because their fields get infected with GM Monsanto
pollen. The farmers then have no choice but to switch to
GM corn! I currently buy unrefined corn oil for salad dressing
that comes from Romania. Since they're now in the EU they
come under EU regulation. I don't know for sure whether
Romanian grain is safe, but I do know that non-organic US
grain has built-in pesticide and that buying it supports
Monsanto. And organic corn seems to be absent
from the US market.

(I might have to write in Neelie Kroes for President in our
next election, given the way things are going.