Pricelessware Site Suggestion (input from all please)

[Vegard Krog Petersen]

Yup. I've been tinkering with the headers again - trying to make
navigation as easy as possible. . . Comments and suggestions for
improvement are welcome:

http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/index-2006.html

Oh, that one hurts my eyes!. Sorry Susan
But don't let that stop you from "tinkering"..

http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acf/Index.php
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acfg/acfg.php

http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/ftp/Archives/2006PL-CD/ (many links
won't work as the pages aren't there yet)

Susan

regards from

--
Vegard Krog Petersen - Norway

http://vegard2.no -
Solitaire MahJongg guide, Sarah Michelle Gellar Solitaire,
Freeware Logo & symbol, Halma & Chinese Checkers,
Pachisi & Ludo, Freeware Solitaire, My fishy site (fishing
games), a.c.f.g information, Fredrikshald Havfiskeklubb
18+ sites: Firefoxy, Adult Solitaire, Fishy Pictures,
Sexy Chess, Sexy Librarians, Sexy Football
---------------------------------------------------------

 

[Vegard Krog Petersen]

Vegard,

No, I'm not a troll and I'll be serious with you. I did not start this
thread and if you go back and look, you'll find that out. I would suggest
you read the original posts and you will see that there were some asinine
comments to both the OP's post and my posts. When people start taking
comments out of context, and bend them to fit what they want it to say - as
you did, then I view those comments as a joke and respond accordingly.

You said, I said "thousands" but you failed to recognize the word "hundreds"
before that - see what I mean? You want proof - proof of what? That more
than the number of voters (36) read this ng? C'mon - are you serious?
There was, or still may be, a service that listed statistics for the top 100
ng's. ACF was not one of them but I really did look and count names when I
responded to your comments and there damn well more than 36 individual
names. Go count them.

As I said to John C., we'll just agree to disagree. If I have questions for
this ng, I seriously do not want any of the purists answering them - they
are to narrow-minded. By that, I mean they appear not to have the breadth
of knowledge nor the willingness to offer advice nor to open their minds
to - ( and get this )- "matters relating to freeware".

When I need advice, I prefer to get it from someone that has "been there,
done that" type of person that does have a broad background in both software
and hardware and has many experiences, not just one - a thousand times over.
There are a number of professionals that contribute here and can offer sage
advice on many related subjects. Why anyone would want to restrict that to
the narrowest of meanings is beyond my comprehension. If you ever had to
pay for some of the pro's advice on an hourly basis - you could definitely
relate to that. Here it's given freely and usually with the honest intent of
trying to help someone solve a problem.

But the narrow definition that the purists want to apply to this group does
not allow for any discussions other than what they want even though it fits
within the boundaries of what has been defined in the FAQ. The definitions
in the FAQ (as quoted previously) and as above is rather broad. Read it
again......"to discuss matters relating to freeware" is one example and is
the definition given for "What is the purpose of ACF". Nowhere is that
further defined, restricted nor expanded upon. Read the original posts
again - not the ones that are clipped and sentences taken out of context.
You'll see that we (and others) have made valid points but since we're not
part of the "purists" clan and only speak freeware, we're treated as trolls.
That is simply childish behavior and some of my comments were aimed at
highlighting that behavior.

Freeware is nice, but ya know - the world does not revolve around software
and the sun will rise in the morning even if freeware were to vanish in the
night. You want this little corner of hell to yourselves - knock yourselves
out. When I make a post - please do not respond, even if you have an answer
that would help me find a solution for a client. Put me in your kill-file
now and save yourself any future self-imposed aggravation by reading what I
and others have to say when it comes to matters relating to freeware. I'm
not going away. Help me, and I'll help you if I have a reasonable answer
that I think would be of benefit. Otherwise, I'll stay out of your posts
and you stay out of mine - fair enough?

Bob S.

Hi, Bob S.

Thanks for being "serious" with me . I appreciate that.

I still maintain that you started the "discussion" (I never said the
thread) and that it was uncalled for (no "forewarning" needed). But
we'll let that be for now.

Calling others "narrow-minded" is not a good way to get help from
others. I don't accept your "higher ground" and "been there, done that"
statement, looking down on others. If somethings is arrogance, that is it.

I stand by all of my comments and will let them speak for themselves.

As I said to John C., we'll just agree to disagree.

I can agree to that

see ya.

regards from

--
Vegard Krog Petersen - Norway

http://vegard2.no -
Solitaire MahJongg guide, Sarah Michelle Gellar Solitaire,
Freeware Logo & symbol, Halma & Chinese Checkers,
Pachisi & Ludo, Freeware Solitaire, My fishy site (fishing
games), a.c.f.g information, Fredrikshald Havfiskeklubb
18+ sites: Firefoxy, Adult Solitaire, Fishy Pictures,
Sexy Chess, Sexy Librarians, Sexy Football
---------------------------------------------------------

 

[Bob S]

Yes! You may discuss ANY "matters relating (however tenuous and
irrelevant) to freeware" in
another newsgroup where your rants are THE subject.

Here, in this until now mostly civil and informative ng, the subject is
FREEware, not any and
everything 'relating to' freeware. Those who have been here for years
are familiar with the
destructive trolls and their need for attention. Your post appears to be
one of that ilk.
People know what to do with destructive trolls in newsgroups.

BTW, thanks Susan et al for all the work you do and your unselfish concern
for others and
producing a quality product.

Don't allow the dipsticks to destroy this newsgroup. They need to get
their own ng and just
dig at each other until the cows come home! There are bully-boys in other
ngs and some here
have similar names...slight variations but thank God they are the
minority! One dipstick with
many slivers. Plonk...plonk...plonk!.... my bozo bin over-floweth!

Helen

-- It has always been the policy of the advocates of error, when unable to
sustain themselves by sophistry, specious reasoning and false logic, to
stigmatize
the advocates of truth.

Helen,

Exactly my point - you're one of the narrow-minded ones. Someone else
already said it but it's worth repeating - what part of "relating" did you
not understand?

Can we make comparisons of freeware / shareware / payware / any other kind?
FAQ say's we can - so what's the beef? Oh......it doesn't fit -your-
personal interpretation of the FAQ - I see. So because some of us would like
to advance a discussion beyond only freeware - we can't discuss "matters
relating to freeware".

Would you agree that whoever wrote the FAQ then didn't do a very good job of
making the points clear? Now think about it for a moment - maybe it really
was worded that way - on purpose - and that your the one that is wrong.
Holy cow - a purist, wrong, how can that be....

I've not been ranting but I have been answering others comments if you care
to read. I've been trying to enlighten some of you as to what you may be
missing - just as the OP did. But your narrow-mindedness doesn't even allow
for that discussion. So please place me in your kill-file now.

Your sig line is apropos for your comments.

Bob S.

 

[Bob S]

Vegard,

I'm not even going to bother including any past responses. You simply did
not read what I said or did not understand what was said.

So, I'll make my posts - you make yours and please put me in your kill-file.
I'm trying to be courteous by answering all responses but this is getting
tiresome. Admittedly, my attempt at humor in response to one of your posts
was a total failure and I'll apologize for that but you really haven't a
clue about what has been said here.

Let me summarize some of my observations:

1. No one here can restrict what anyone else can or cannot say in this ng.

2. My posts have been within the bounds of the intent of this ng (except the
attempt at humor) and have been aimed at trying to show others that you
really can take the blinders off and open your minds up without ruining the
intent of this ng. Try it - you just may like it.... If you're unwilling to
try, okay but don't try to restrict others.

3. The FAQ is loosely worded and probably was done intentionally to
encourage discussion. If not, then take a vote and change it but make it a
real consensus this time and not a joke poll like the last one. A whole 36
votes and you take that as a consensus?

4. The purists of the group do more complaining than they do offering help.

5. Wonder if they ever really thought about what they're trying to defend
and to what purpose does their belittling of others serve?

So when I said they're narrow-minded, I believe it's an accurate
description. How would you describe their position? Now when you answer,
please keep it within the guidelines of the FAQ and not what you think it
say's - but what it really means. Terms like "relating" and "etc." are
intentionally used to emphasize that there is room to wiggle here and that
others can have their say about a subject and voice their opinion too - even
if it doesn't agree with yours. The fact that you may not like it - simply
does not matter.

Bob S.

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=]

Can we make comparisons of freeware / shareware / payware / any
other kind? FAQ say's we can - so what's the beef?

I don't know what your beef is. We can make comparisons between
payware and freeware. No one has argued otherwise with you, and your
favorite poll results support you (24/36). You're tilting at
windmills.

I've not been ranting

Well, maybe a little.

 

[Susan Bugher]

Oh, that one hurts my eyes!. Sorry Susan
But don't let that stop you from "tinkering"..

Are you objecting to the "color coded" archives or something else? The
tinkering is about over - colors are still subject to change. . .

Susan
--
Posted to alt.comp.freeware
Search alt.comp.freeware (or read it online):
http://www.google.com/advanced_group_search?q=+group:alt.comp.freeware
Pricelessware & ACF: http://www.pricelesswarehome.org
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org (not maintained)

 

[burnr]

Comments and suggestions for

I like this one!

 

[Vegard Krog Petersen]

Are you objecting to the "color coded" archives or something else? The
tinkering is about over - colors are still subject to change. . .

Hi, Susan.
Yes it was the clash of colours in the headings who I personally found
not pleasant...

Just my 2C.

regards from vegard

--
Vegard Krog Petersen - Norway

http://vegard2.no -
Solitaire MahJongg guide, Sarah Michelle Gellar Solitaire,
Freeware Logo & symbol, Halma & Chinese Checkers,
Pachisi & Ludo, Freeware Solitaire, My fishy site (fishing
games), a.c.f.g information, Fredrikshald Havfiskeklubb
18+ sites: Firefoxy, Adult Solitaire, Fishy Pictures,
Sexy Chess, Sexy Librarians, Sexy Football
---------------------------------------------------------

 

[Craig]

Hi Susan;

Summary: Logo & colors work well. Structure-wise, the site needs more
heirarchy. Content-wise, it needs fewer links and fewer link groupings.
If you'd like for me to mock something up, let me know.

(Comments made are based on viewing the site using IE 6 and Mozilla
1.7.12 on Win32 @ 1280X1024, 17" monitor.)

What works for me:
- Logo looks awesome
- colors (combined & individually) work well
- loads quickly (I'd cleared cache to check)

What doesn't work for me:
- page structure
- page content

Page structure: What I mean here is that, visually, there are groups of
links and singular links all around (above, beside, below) the header
and all down the page. So, when I first open and glance at the page, my
eyes move all over (instead of being directed by the page's "flow"). In
sum, I'd call the page cluttered. Here are a couple of examples of some
sites that are more easy for me to grok probably because the page space
is divided into "regions:"

http://www.mozilla.org/
http://osswin.sourceforge.net/
http://www.ubcd4win.com/


Page content: at either 1024x768 or 1280x1024, I see multiple links
tagged with the same and similar phrases leading to same & similar urls.
In other words, there's duplication which adds to the visual clutter.

examples:
- two "newsgroup search" links on left & google search bar on the right
- links "cumulative list," & "about the pricelessware" just below logo
duplicated by the same-entitled urls not far below.

Thank you very much, Susan, for keeping this project rolling.

Craig

 

[Susan Bugher]

@individual.net:

I like this one!

Hurrah!

Susan
--
Posted to alt.comp.freeware
Search alt.comp.freeware (or read it online):
http://www.google.com/advanced_group_search?q=+group:alt.comp.freeware
Pricelessware & ACF: http://www.pricelesswarehome.org
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org (not maintained)

 

[Susan Bugher]

on 09.12.2005 03:15 Susan Bugher wrote:

Yes it was the clash of colours in the headings who I personally found
not pleasant...

Just my 2C.

Can't disagree - OTOH fairly often I've found myself on PL2003 pages
when I wanted PL2006 pages - I think color coding the PLs for different
years should make it easier to land on the right page. . .

BTW - have you read the revised history info on the about page? Is it
complete enough yet?

http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/2006/about2006PL.php

Susan
--
Posted to alt.comp.freeware
Search alt.comp.freeware (or read it online):
http://www.google.com/advanced_group_search?q=+group:alt.comp.freeware
Pricelessware & ACF: http://www.pricelesswarehome.org
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org (not maintained)

 

[Susan Bugher]

Hi Susan;

Summary: Logo & colors work well. Structure-wise, the site needs more
heirarchy. Content-wise, it needs fewer links and fewer link groupings.
If you'd like for me to mock something up, let me know.

(Comments made are based on viewing the site using IE 6 and Mozilla
1.7.12 on Win32 @ 1280X1024, 17" monitor.)

What works for me:
- Logo looks awesome

Burnr, please take a bow.

- colors (combined & individually) work well
- loads quickly (I'd cleared cache to check)

What doesn't work for me:
- page structure
- page content

Page structure: What I mean here is that, visually, there are groups of
links and singular links all around (above, beside, below) the header
and all down the page. So, when I first open and glance at the page, my
eyes move all over (instead of being directed by the page's "flow"). In
sum, I'd call the page cluttered.

Page content: at either 1024x768 or 1280x1024, I see multiple links
tagged with the same and similar phrases leading to same & similar urls.
In other words, there's duplication which adds to the visual clutter.

examples:
- two "newsgroup search" links on left & google search bar on the right

Those are all different searches (no duplicates).

- links "cumulative list," & "about the pricelessware" just below logo
duplicated by the same-entitled urls not far below.

I've used large headings for the 3 main directories: PL2006, ACF and
ACFG. One of the reasons I chose to show more links near the top of the
page where they can't be missed (I hope) is that a while back somebody
posted that they couldn't find a link to a list of the PL2005 programs
on the PL2005 "front page". IOW I think it's quite possible that some
people won't notice the scroll bar.

http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/

On the PL2006 "front page" I've used larger fonts for the PL Program
Index and Category Index than the BUSINESS-HOME, DESKTOP etc. pages - as
an indication that those are good places to start. Showing that many
links at the top of the page does lead to a somewhat cluttered look.

http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/index-2006.html

I've uploaded an alterate page with all the duplicate links hidden
(replaced the text with non-breaking spaces).

http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/index-2006ALT.html

Do you prefer that layout? What changes would improve it?

I think the alternate page *looks* better - nevertheless my preference
is for the first page. I'd like to hear what others think.

Thank you very much, Susan, for keeping this project rolling.

YW. Thanks for the critique.

Susan
--
Posted to alt.comp.freeware
Search alt.comp.freeware (or read it online):
http://www.google.com/advanced_group_search?q=+group:alt.comp.freeware
Pricelessware & ACF: http://www.pricelesswarehome.org
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org (not maintained)

 

[Vegard Krog Petersen]

BTW - have you read the revised history info on the about page? Is it
complete enough yet?

http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/2006/about2006PL.php

Susan

Me? Eeh, what? Oh, yes now I remember: I wanted dates.
Scanning, scanning: Looks very good Susan!

regards from vegard

--
Vegard Krog Petersen - Norway

http://vegard2.no -
Solitaire MahJongg guide, Sarah Michelle Gellar Solitaire,
Freeware Logo & symbol, Halma & Chinese Checkers,
Pachisi & Ludo, Freeware Solitaire, My fishy site (fishing
games), a.c.f.g information, Fredrikshald Havfiskeklubb
18+ sites: Firefoxy, Adult Solitaire, Fishy Pictures,
Sexy Chess, Sexy Librarians, Sexy Football
---------------------------------------------------------